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Deserving of wins and losses

Posted by Darren Urban on October 30, 2012 – 9:45 am

It was a rough Monday night for Larry Fitzgerald. Twice he came off the field dealing with eye issues, and one of those times came after a pretty violent rip of the facemask from 49ers cornerback Chris Culliver that went uncalled. After the game, he spoke at his locker, quietly. The wide receiver has made it plain he wants to win at this point in his career, and the Cards were far from that against San Francisco.

He was asked about the Cardinals’ 4-0 start, and the perception picking up steam that it was a mirage.

“I’ve been here since 2004,” Fitzgerald said. “The Arizona Cardinals have always been considered a mirage. It’s nothing that we haven’t heard and it really doesn’t affect us in this locker room. We know what we are capable of, we know the quality and character of the men and their resolve. The only way we’re going to get through this is by buckling down. It doesn’t get any easier from this point. It’s an uphill battle, but you wouldn’t want it any other way.”

Personally, I get the “mirage” question but it’s an oversimplification. I tend to believe the Bill Parcells’ line of thinking: You are what your record says you are. (Ken Whisenhunt, who once worked under Parcells, has been known to utter the same phrase.) The Cardinals deserved to win the games they did because they did. They had some breaks, of course. But they made some breaks too. They have lost the games they have lost because they played, on those Sundays, losing football. There is an ebb and flow to every season and often, every week. The Cardinals were doomed to the No. 1 pick in the draft last year during their six-game losing streak — at least, that’s all I heard — and then they were .500. No one asks if that six-game losing streak was a mirage, although it felt that way a little by the end of the season.

The Cardinals are not playing well right now, especially offensively. If that doesn’t change, the losing will continue, and there are definitely holes on this team that are hurting the end-product. We’ll see where this goes.

“If we want to get ourselves out of the predicament we find ourselves in, we’re going to have to fight our way out of it,” Fitzgerald said. “We have to do it together. We can’t fray apart, we can’t be broken. We have to be as one.”

They might as well. When it’s over, the Cardinals will be judged as a whole anyway, whatever the final record might be.


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Posted in Blog | 88 Comments »


88 Responses to “Deserving of wins and losses”

  1. By beardinals on Oct 30, 2012 | Reply

    Sort of makes you wonder why he didn’t go chase a ring.

  2. By beardinals on Oct 30, 2012 | Reply

    PS, all commenting systems suck these days. Everyone trying to get too fancy I guess.

  3. By Scott H on Oct 30, 2012 | Reply

    Out here in NJ, we just got our power back today after it went out ( right before halftime ) because of hurricane Sandy. But it appears the power went out for the Cardinals WEEKS ago and there are no signs it is coming back on any time soon. And, by the way, I should probably thank Sandy for turning off the TV for me when she did.

    Once again, the Cardinals are the perfect cure for whatever is ailing the other team. The 49ers had been struggling badly on offense the past 2 weeks, especially Alex Smith. But, hey, when you have the Cardinals up next on your schedule, there is no need to worry ’cause they gonna fix EVERYTHING for ya! They are truly the friggin Mother Theresa of the NFL, I swear. 3 TD paases for Smith and the 49ers are right back up and back on the road again. Right on cue.

    The Cardinals? They are left behind as road KILL. Right on cue.

    This is the 2nd time in 3 years the Cardinals have been thoroughly throttled by the 49ers – IN ARIZONA – on a Monday night. If the NFL is listening, I totally understand and have NO PROBLEM at all if you decide to keep the Cardinals off the Monday night schedule until further notice. To the rest of the football-watching world, i apologize to anyone who was just hoping to see a decent football game last night.

    This team is just painful to watch right now. They are a joke, they are a fraud, and last night, they were an embarassment. Started 4-0, now on their way to 4-6 after the next 2 games. And probably just further downhill after that.

    Skelton looked AWFUL last night. O-line still looks awful. Can’t run the ball. And hard for your WR’s to do anything when the QB can’t get them the ball. The result is our 2nd 3-point performance in the past 4 games. I WOULD say give Lindley a shot but…really, what is he gonna be able to do with this offense??? And at this point, I ain’t giving the D a pass anymore, either. And special teams? Um, the next time we get a significant contribution for them will be the FIRST time we have gotten a contribution from them. I’ve had it up to my friggin eye-balls with hearing Peterson compared to Devin Hester. Please. Devin Hester is who he is because he does what he does EVERY year. Peterson doesn’t get to do it for ONE year and keep livin’ off that. On special teams, he is a HUGE disappointment this year.

    I feel absolutely HORRIBLE for Larry Fitzgerald. And I’d love to know what he REALLY thinks.

  4. By sarah on Oct 30, 2012 | Reply

    It was what it was as the saying goes and somewhat expected. Reality is SF is just better with great player at key positions especially on defence, never mind that they are a bigger team and ditto Minnesota. I mean we have one running back who is undersized and got lucky in Minnesota, no fullback to speak of, a porous OL. I thought the team did not give up and were just outplayed plain and simple. I mean the receivers could not get separation and when they got a catch they were tackled immediately unlike say Crabtree. That lick on Doucet was a metaphor, reality is outside of Fitz our receiving corp is undersized never mind slow. Take out Fitz and the team is average, SF just has allot more weapons at their disposal and it showed.

    In order for the Cards to win Skelton had to play beyond perfect with a decent running game with Beanie Wells in, consistent line protection, open receivers and Fitz with one on one coverage ( he was woozy most of the game). You can’t win a game with an erratic line, no running game and a defence that did not play it’s best game ( Peterson was suspect on several plays ), basic tackling was awry. When playing the conference leader you have to have everyone clicking, SF brought it and it showed.

    I am sure everyone will blame Skelton as the scapegoat but in the second half he was spot on in passing with no running game or decent line (caveat I missed allot of the first half ). As stated the receivers cannot get catch separation. Jeff King along the sideline got the best momentum and he ran like a right tackle with the ball. Kolb would have done no better and maybe worse or just got flattened, Lindley come on he is completely untested in a regular season game.

    Let’s move on from the debacle and prepare for Green Bay in a professional fashion as opposed to driving down the highway looking in the rear mirror. We need cohesion, a running game and time to get a pass downfield. Skelton took his shots at times and there were catches to be made, Floyd is a so so receiver and still has college player written all over him. When the other team has Crabtree and Moss embarrassing our defence something is up. This will sound nuts but I say the Cards should take a shot on Terrell Owens as another weapon. The guy can still catch the ball and is in shape, seriously none of the other receivers ever get separation after a catch.

    Onward and upward to Green Bay, it is what it is and if we can get to 5-4 and then a week off brilliant, we have the back end of the season. The magic of lucking out at the end is over, blaming Feely etc is passe as the Cards are exposed and have to get better personnel on offence. Kolb lost to STL and we got 3 points that highlighted something and others have picked up. Let’s work with what we got cause mealy mouthing everyone does not move us forward and trades etc are not available. It would have been nice to have had more of a hurry up offence in the second half being down but i do not even think that would have helped !

  5. By Tim in NJ on Oct 30, 2012 | Reply

    The offense was starting to click under Kolb then he got hurt and the offense – under Skelton- has been worst in NFL. Still the Cardinals sit at .500 halfway through the season and anything is possible. Might we see the team sign a veteran QB (like Vice Young) to compete with Skelton over the bye week for the starting job? Really it cant get any worse so why not!

  6. By T.Stone on Oct 30, 2012 | Reply

    The Cardinals need to trade some picks for a running back then as soon as that RB doesn’t gain any yards on a running play abandon it all together and throw it over 50 times with a QB that cant seem to get it together. Put the Rookie QB in. Even a Rook could manage to get us into position to get 3 stinking points.

  7. By maham on Oct 30, 2012 | Reply

    PATHETIC….I’M DONE WITH THIS TEAM

  8. By Mr Robles on Oct 30, 2012 | Reply

    Very dissapointing we let crabtree beat us Id make an exception for Davis but crabtree sucks but he beat us literally tackling was horrible. We stopped the run but was too late. Smith was dinking & dunking nothing spectacular & almost made the record like what the hell? Darren why hasnt there been a change at tackles Potter & Mcquistan are they worse than the starters?

  9. By Rick on Oct 30, 2012 | Reply

    I hate to say it but I am a fan mostly because of Larry Fitzgerald and to see him try to get that touchdown at the end of the game made me really feel for the guy. It’s not right for a player like him to be in those kinds of situations on this poor team. I hope he gets out of arizona and does great things with another team so he doesn’t waste his superior god given talent on this team. Thanks guys….

  10. By Andy Kw on Oct 30, 2012 | Reply

    Hey Darren,
    Were both John Skelton and Rob Housler both born on the same day and in El Paso, Texas?

  11. By DontTakeLoses on Oct 30, 2012 | Reply

    OL was not the issue last night. Overall team loss. Defense caved, especially PP. He needs to refrain from his constant “commentary” and just play. He is not humble and not a very good DB yet.

    But Skelton is biggest cause for concern. He just is unable to get it done. Great kid, not a good QB, not even mediocre, he’s not a good candidate even for a backup position. If I was HC, Lindley would start until Kolb can return. Can’t win with Skelton unless we can run, and we can’t run unless they play the pass.. Defenses have figured out to stop the run with extra guys in the box and Skelton can’t beat them with the pass.

    So simple, yet so true. We’re screwed until Kolb can come back, might be next year. Only hope is rejuvenated D steps up to over perform, cause extra turnovers and scores come from D and special teams, because Offense is worst in league with Skelton as QB…. it is what it is. Sure OL RB and TE injuries hurting… but QB position weakest link…

  12. By Blair on Oct 30, 2012 | Reply

    I find it funny (not really) that whiz is supposed to be an offensive minded coach, yet as soon as he looked warner his offenses are crazy bad. Leading the league in sacks all these years, at first it was because the qbs were not getting rid of it fast enough, I’m calling bs on that one. Even if the cards got Brady hey still would struggle to score against terrible defenses like the bills. Promote horton and fire whiz, his offenses have been god awful.

  13. By D on Oct 30, 2012 | Reply

    I don’t see anything happening before the trade deadline or any changes in the staff during the bye week. I think if they only win 5-6 wins at the end of the season, then I think Mike Miller and R. Grimm will be the fall guys, I know many people would like the GM replaced, but he is basing his decisions on the scouts, so I doubt he will be replaced.
    If the Cards want to show the fans that they will try to bring in some talent to salvage the remaining portion of the season, they could look at the RB spot. Your not going to find qaulity O lineman right now and teams don’t trade them, so if you look at depth charts of teams, especially teams that the season is slipping away, you can attempt to make a trade. I doubt any team would offer a backup RB to AZ knowing how desperate we are, but I would offer up Doucet to the Saints for C. Ivory. I wouldn’t give up any draft pick higher than a 6th rounder but since they didn’t bring in anyone after the injuries to both RB’s and Levi, I doubt if it will happen.

  14. By jocards on Oct 30, 2012 | Reply

    I can see that some fans will defend Skelton no matter how poorly he plays. To some he will always be better than Kevin Kolb despite results. I do not really like or dislike either player but it is crystal clear to me that the team looked so much better with Kolb under center…..not even close. You can argue “measurables” all you like but the fact is that the offense was much better with Kolb playing QB than it has been with Skelton. I’ve seen all the arguments about his arm strength…Skelton could rifle the ball through the side of a barn, etc. but the problem is he would likely over throw the barn entirely. Really the point is moot because Kolb is unable to go. I further acknowledge that our OL does not protect well enough nor run block well enough for Skelton to make many plays. Right now, today this is a bad football team and the bad QB play is only a part of that mess. It isn’t Skelton’s fault we’ve lost 4 games in a row but his play has been as bad as anybody’s.

  15. By john the draft guy on Oct 30, 2012 | Reply

    Sarah,
    Unless Terrel Owens is going to play LT, we dont need him. Roberts is solid, Housler is above average and getting better and Fitz is simply the best. Doucet and Floyd are not bad either. T.O. is a joke.

    Scott H,
    I feel your frustration. This is another one of those unbearable years watching this team. Let’s see, that is 17 bad years of the 22 years I have watched crap from my season ticket seats. AHHH but 1998 and 2008 made it worth it. Come on 2018, that is our year.

    Darren,
    Cant agree more. Your record is your record. New England missed a FG and gave us a win, Feely missed one that gave us a loss. We should have lost to NE and beat the Bills but at the end, it all comes out exactly who you are.

  16. By iammattyoung on Oct 30, 2012 | Reply

    As much as the O-line is to blame to for the offensive struggles (and that blame goes back to the front office thinking they could just plug in some cast-offs, a la Snyder, Colledge, and LBrown), Skelton has been horrendous(!). Even when he has time to make a pass, he is mind-bogglingly (and dangerously) off target. Guys who catch the ball have no opportunity to pick up yards after the catch because they’re having to reach out of stride to grab it.

    This is as dark a time as I’ve felt as a Cardinals fan, because our flaws are at positions for which there is no simple fix. You need and O-line and you need a quarterback to score in this league (heck, any football league), and we have neither. The front office did a TERRIBLE job this off-season, and beyond that, I think a lot of blame has to go on Whisenhunt as well.

    Whisenhunt’s downfall has ALWAYS been his insistence on players fitting his scheme, as opposed to his scheme fitting his players. The only reason we succeeded with Warner was because Warner was a grown man and a champion who had no trouble respectfully taking Whisenhunt’s scheme’s and make executive audibles on the field. That’s why you would so often see the two of them arguing on the sidelines — no arguments between Whiz and Kolb or Skelton because they’re just following his lead (or OC Miller’s).

    The fact is, they spent $40 million on a West Coast quarterback, and tried to mold him into a different system. They took weak pass-blocking players like Snyder, Colledge, and Levi Brown and tried to make them pass blockers. They have quality receivers in Fitz, Roberts, and Floyd who can all get downfield, yet they refuse to take big shots downfield. They have a QB in Skelton who obviously thrives in the hurry-up, yet they insist on slowing the game down. They’re having trouble with pass blocking, yet they insist on exclusively using the 5’7″ 180lb running back instead of the guy who weighs over 200lbs. And what that has all added up to is an offense that can’t do anything. You have the highest paid wide receiver in the league (deservedly so), but can’t get him the ball. The only thing this team is doing well is the thing that Whisenhunt has given up control of: the defense.

    I know it’s impossible, but the way to solve this is to trade Fitz. There is no way to get the returns for what you’re paying for out of him. And it’s not fair to him to be on this team. Pile up draft picks, and hope that over the next couple of years, you can actually build an offense around this defense. And promote Horton to head coach.

  17. By philly cards on Oct 30, 2012 | Reply

    Its the coach.u find a way. U consider all potential issues in mini camp.u have a solution
    In miami a few yrs ago they had no roster so they began wildcat.

    Head coach is the problem

  18. By scubasteve12 on Oct 30, 2012 | Reply

    Sarah- get over yoursself. skelton sucks. it was his fault he lost

  19. By scubasteve12 on Oct 30, 2012 | Reply

    also kolb has performed way better than skelton.

  20. By KKfan on Oct 30, 2012 | Reply

    Sarah, Sarah, I just knew there would be a defense of Skelton (and your usual dig at Kolb )in that monalog somewhere before it concluded. Thanks for not disappointing me.

    So if I get the meaning of you remark (about the 3 pts) in the Rams game by Kolb, (correct me if I’m wrong) are you saying that Kolbs performance was worse than Johns? Cause that sure is how it comes off to me.

    The Cards are suffering from the same malady that the Eagles are suffering from…injuries to key players. Subs that just are not starter material. It is what it is. Both teams have to find a way to over come the injuries to their lost starters.
    That is never easy…but it is the only solution at this point.. Maybe you’ll be able to pick up a good player or two before the trade deadline .

    Othewise the only other opton is to alter the game plan to suit Skeltons strengths since he is your current QB. And probably will be for several more weeks. Coaches need to keep it simple…stop trying to make it so complicated with complicated shifts, reads.. It’s all about getting the right match-ups.

  21. By Chris Lewis on Oct 30, 2012 | Reply

    I’m so tired of reading the articles where the players say we can’t do this, we have to get better at that, etc. Those are just words, and are they going to keep saying that until they look up and they’re suddenly 4-12? The bottom line is the Cardinals aren’t as good as I thought or many people thought they were. Last night’s ugly loss was the lowest point of the season. They’re not doing anything right, even the so-called awesome defense didn’t look impressive at all to me last night against the 49ers. They couldn’t stop the run, they couldn’t tackle, too many big plays. It starts with the defense, and it’s hard to dig out of a hole when you’re always down right from the beginning. On the other side, the offense looks pathetic, we don’t have an O-line, Skelton should be benched and give Lindley a try until Kolb comes back, but if we just had a decent O-line, our running game and QB play would look much better. We can’t continue to let our QBs get punished, it’s not fair to them. Why isn’t Whiz giving some other guys a chance? They can’t do any worse than Batiste and Massey. I look at our schedule and have to shake my head. It looks like we’re on our way to 6 losses in a row just like last year. We’ll be lucky if we finish .500 unless we make some drastic changes.

  22. By ryan on Oct 30, 2012 | Reply

    let me just tell you guys something the Cardinals will get out of this slump im a die hard fan nd no faith is what im hearing everybody say now….im just saying screw the 49ers they got nothing on us until they reach the Superbowl they cant say nothing they fall short everytime

  23. By Rufus on Oct 30, 2012 | Reply

    Unfortunately, based on their recent play and the upcoming schedule, I think the Cardinals will have another losing season. Terrible OL, no running game or deep passing game, an average secondary, inconsistent kicker, no punt return game, conservative play calling, etc.

    It’s seriously time to think about coaching and GM changes. There is no excuse for a poor offense that has not improved the past three years. Maybe a fresh perspective is needed to rebuild this team. If I was Larry, I would demand a trade.

  24. By tentpeg107 on Oct 30, 2012 | Reply

    sarah-

    Thank you for your comment about John Skelton. I am confounded by people’s response that “It’s the QB’s fault” (no matter the O-Line is giving him NO TIME, yet his completion % the past 2 weeks is 69% and 61%). I think he’s got guts for staying in there to make passes, even though he would get creamed.

    The O-Line STINKS, and AZ should fire Russ Grimm and hire Juan Castillo. That would shake things up.

  25. By Darren Urban on Oct 30, 2012 | Reply

    Mr Robles —

    RE: Tackles

    Apparently so.

  26. By Darren Urban on Oct 30, 2012 | Reply

    Andy Kw —

    RE: Birthdates

    Yes.

  27. By Sarah on Oct 30, 2012 | Reply

    Dear Don’tTakeLosses,

    Yeah yeah things would be completely different and we would have won if Kolb had been in, just like his last two games before getting injured. Why is he injured now ? Cause he got clobbered by Buffalo and sacked 7 times ! Most QB’s have a running back, fullback, OL and receivers that make plays once they catch the ball. LSH ran for 7 yards and that was the team total, count em 7 yards in 30 minutes l ! Even Fitz dropped his first catch of the night after bobbling it, team loss they collectively got their ass kicked. It actually could have been allot worse if they continued to run the ball.

  28. By cardsalltheway on Oct 30, 2012 | Reply

    scubasteve12,
    K. Kolb may never play for the Cardinals again, feel the reeper. And it would be a miracle if K. Kolb ever plays 8 games in a row on any team. To be fair, Johnny S. may not finish this season but at least he has played half a season.

  29. By Sarah on Oct 30, 2012 | Reply

    KK etc above,

    Get over it and move on, we had midget receivers compared to SF let alone the running back. We did not win on either side of the ball, we used to get plays out of PP returns, teams have adjusted to the Cards. I cannot wait for Kolb’s return and see how he fares with the lack of protection again and zero running game. Put Lindley in for a good laugh and see where that goes a guy who has not seen a real game. Pre-season is a different beast, live up to reality the team is not playing well given the assets in place.

  30. By Rio on Oct 30, 2012 | Reply

    Patrick Perterson needs to start backing up his mouth, he says this and he says that but he doens’t answer the Bell at best average DP.

    Starting not to look back at the ball now, the worst sin of all. This kid thinks he is great and i am thinking he is just a returned man.

    Number 22 Gay is the worst of all time, couldn’t cover anybody or anything, needs to learn how to tackle, must get rid of this mistake.

  31. By silverbackdk on Oct 30, 2012 | Reply

    Hi Darren
    Do you see cards going after af physical RB to complement our (at times) good defense. I would be delighted if they spend af late round pick on Blount from the Bucs – at the present time we only have small back and it would be nice to be able to punish som of the D’s in division – and you can’t really count on Wells being healthy apparently….

  32. By VonKromDom on Oct 30, 2012 | Reply

    Darren,
    Do you feel that Michael Floyd should be the #2 WR? His upside just seems to be way higher than Roberts and Doucet. He makes some pretty acrobatic catches, and seems to be a lot more physical too. I do like Dre, but Doucet seems to drop too many catchable passes.

  33. By Darren Urban on Oct 30, 2012 | Reply

    silverback —

    RE: RB trade

    As I mentioned last night, I do not think the Cards will trade for a running back.

  34. By Darren Urban on Oct 30, 2012 | Reply

    VonKrom —

    RE: Floyd

    I agree his upside is higher, but I have yet to see him show why he would be elevated above Doucet yet.

  35. By GW on Oct 30, 2012 | Reply

    Only 1 miss completion who was that montana to rice no. s young to owens no.then who was that mask man? ALEX SMITH TO CRABTREE &OLD MAN MOSS ARE YOU KIDDING ME? THE CARDS ARE A JOKE IN THE NFL ALONG WITH THE CLEV. BROWNS.SCOTT H. I SHARE YOUR PAIN DUDE. IWOULD NOT BE UPSET IF FITZ. ASK TO BE TRADED HE DESERVE BETTER THAN THE SAME OLE CARDS.

  36. By suspence716 on Oct 30, 2012 | Reply

    Darren- after another disgusting performance on both sides of the ball do you think whiz is on the hot seat yet? I bet he’s gone after this season, probably end up 4-12

  37. By Darren Urban on Oct 30, 2012 | Reply

    Suspence —

    RE: Whiz

    I would bet you are wrong.

  38. By cardfan on Oct 30, 2012 | Reply

    Darren…

    maybe you can answer this question…..why is it that everyone else can see how bad our O-line is, but the Wiz is as blind as a bat. maybe the problem is our coaches and not the players? Thanks, for being there to talk to Darren

  39. By Darren Urban on Oct 30, 2012 | Reply

    Cardfan —

    RE: OL

    I think Whiz understands what he is dealing with. What everyone else needs to understand is that he’s never going to have some sort of bloodletting in a press conference. He doesn’t see the need or the point to rail on what’s wrong in public.

  40. By Bob Boise on Oct 30, 2012 | Reply

    It seemed to me that the 49ers were embarrassed to be playing such a poor team. When they helped Fitzgerald up…expressions said “Too bad you are playing for such Losers”.
    Whizz. doesn’t want to make changes. I guess he will go down with the ship to the end. How can you expect the Defense to keep the score down when the other team gets twice as many possession as normal because of the lack of offense.
    Big changes are needed. Start with the offensive line…and maybe offensive coaches.

  41. By tyman on Oct 30, 2012 | Reply

    OH man!!! that was a rough loss for the cards.

    Look at the play calling against the viking and this game. It was actually a better mix vs the vikings of play action on first and that really opened the run. There seem to really be a ton of problems on offence, and I think it all starts with the QB. Do we actually have a top ten Qb? no way we do!!!
    The reports of the cardinals trying out Vince Young sounded promising, but then Urban crusted the hopes when he told us fans that they weren’t trying him out. Maybe that’s for the best anyways but right now, no wait from the start of the season we all knew that the cards could stop teams on D but they wouldn’t be able to score enough to make the playoffs.
    I know some fans are calling for Ken to get the can. That would be terrible, all we need is to find that Qb that can hit the 15 yard routes down the field. And after all ken did take a shot at manning. We will see what happens. I think a bringing in a guy with some personality to take over the OC might help! maybe not! Who knows? maybe Urban knows.

  42. By Dumbfounded on Oct 30, 2012 | Reply

    Darren,

    I’ve seen articles attacking Russ Grimm and articles defending Russ Grimm. The articles defending him essentially conclude that the O-line would be much worse without him. Along the lines with the theme of this article –you are what your record says you are — doesn’t the O-line play over the past five years suggest that maybe Russ isn’t the guy for the job?

  43. By Darren Urban on Oct 30, 2012 | Reply

    Dumbfounded —

    RE: Grimm

    I think that is a fair argument to make.

  44. By scubasteve12 on Oct 30, 2012 | Reply

    cardsalltheway- if i remember right skelton didnt even last one game. kolb comes in and takes cards to 4-0 then the line competely falls apart. skelton comes in and we have 3 straight losses. you kolb haters are a bunch of idiots

  45. By Kevin S on Oct 30, 2012 | Reply

    I agree that you are what your record says you are, but sometimes the way you get there leads to expectations and/or conclusions, whether warranted or not. For example, last year we started out 1-6, finished 8-8, and the conclusions (not of everyone, but to varying degrees) were that (a) Kolb was terrible, (b) Skelton was “just a winner” a la Tebow, and (c) the defense was much improved and maybe fans had something to look forward to in 2012. Then the 4-0 start builds on the (c) conclusion; the (a) conclusion gets revisit by some after Skelton gets hurt and Kolb leads the team to some wins; and people are talking about the playoffs and such after some Cardiac wins. As I pointed out on the previous blog entry, if we had gotten to this 4-4 state differently — say, losing to the Patriots and Eagles (teams we were underdogs against), winning against Buffalo and Minnesota (the latter would’ve been a mild upset, considering how MN has improved and that we were away) — then the attitude of the fans would be much different. The progression of the team’s record would’ve been 1-0, 1-1, 1-2, 2-2, 2-3, 3-3, 4-3, 4-4. Expectations would not have soared as they did when the team started off 4-0; instead, people would see the team as average/mediocre/choose your label. But no one would be saying we’re the worst team in football, a complete joke, not going to win another game, etc. I don’t think there’d be nearly as many calls for the collective heads of the coaching staff and front office.

  46. By Wayne on Oct 30, 2012 | Reply

    I think it is time to start talking about coaching changes and not in the way that most people do…I think the coaching staff may be adequate but they need to change their philosphy and try to better use the skills of the players they have. The Patriots are masters at this and we too need to start trying to change up our offensive philosphy to best suit the players we have. I am not saying that I know the answer, if I did I would be an NFL coach. What I am saying very plainly to all the Cardinal coaches is what you are doing is not working and has not worked for several years – that can not all be on the play of the QB. Look at the strengths of your offensive players and work a system that fits them, quit trying to make them fit your system.

  47. By Darren Urban on Oct 30, 2012 | Reply

    Kevin S. —

    RE: Expectations

    Agreed. But I also believe that, for many who choose to voice their opinions, it’s often knee-jerk reaction to whatever is going on — I’d refer you back to the comments on this blog post back in 2009 after the Cards fell to 1-2. That was a 10-win team, mind you.

    Many get overly emotional after both wins and losses. That’s just the way it is.

  48. By Jesus on Oct 30, 2012 | Reply

    Eagles already fired defense coordinator, why is Grimm and or Miller still employed?

    Fire someone!

    You want the fans to care, then show us that the organization cares.

    Cannot be satisfied with this staff!

  49. By MoJo on Oct 30, 2012 | Reply

    Our problem with Whiz is that we will always be an average team and will never have the chance to draft an elite QB. I mean (do not get me the wrong way) I wished the loosing streak continued last year, because there were two great prospects on the board. In addition, we have to start investing early picks in the O-line because not even John Madden can make something out of the current group of players we have, but I still blame Grimm for the bad performance over the last five years.

  50. By Scott H on Oct 30, 2012 | Reply

    No answers coming from anyone. Not from the players, not from the coaches. And without answers, it’s hard to believe anything is gonna change.

  51. By philly cards on Oct 30, 2012 | Reply

    If we are 4-4 today that doesn’t mean we won’t be 4-12.if ur on a slide you could get worse unless you stop it some how

  52. By Kevin S on Oct 30, 2012 | Reply

    Thanks Darren. That’s one of the things I like about Whiz actually — he doesn’t overreact (one way or the other).

    I do wish that FG try on the last play of regulation against Buffalo had been a foot more to the left. We wouldn’t have nearly the fan-demonium at 5-3 that we are having at 4-4.

  53. By Fatdog on Oct 30, 2012 | Reply

    I say trade fitz to Miami for Jake Long and a first round pick its time to blow it up and big contracts at the wideout spot are the first to go.

  54. By Kevin S on Oct 30, 2012 | Reply

    MoJo —

    I understand that thinking but in my opinion true fans never hope their team loses just to get a high draft pick. If the Cards lose their next 2 (quite likely) and are 4-6 and pretty much out of it as far as the playoffs barring a miracle, I still want them to fight like the dickens to get to .500 or 7-9 or whatever the best they can do is. I mean, for years that has been the Suns’ problem too — always good enough to barely make the playoffs (or barely miss and therefore have the worst lottery chances — although this year I think they’re going to be awful).

  55. By Kevin S on Oct 30, 2012 | Reply

    To the right I mean (on Feely’s FG).

  56. By Mr. Ramirez on Oct 30, 2012 | Reply

    Darren, what are the possibilities of getting a new quarterback next season?
    If none how about new Offensive line players?

    While i understand that the Cardinals quarterbacks have been terrible as of late, a large portion of the blame is deserved on the O-line.

  57. By Darren Urban on Oct 30, 2012 | Reply

    Mr. Ramirez —

    RE: QB

    I think QB will definitely be in the discussion for next offseason’s considerations.

  58. By cardsalltheway on Oct 30, 2012 | Reply

    Dumbfounded,
    Put the words in order below to make a sentence.

    History/Worst/OL/in/NFL/Because/of/Grimm/Have/The/Cardinals/the.

    Answer:
    Because of Grimm the Cardinals have the worst OL in NFL History.

    [AND THAT’S A FACT]. Ken W. is also to blame and MUST be accountable! Now, let’s all count to three and begin laughing stock of the NFL. Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha!!!!!! Trick or Treat smell my feet, now give us some good coaches. If the owners don’t agree then a different kind of shake up is required, trade Fitz for big time draft picks – Ooops, I forgot this team doesn’t know what to do with them, rewind.

  59. By MoJo on Oct 30, 2012 | Reply

    Re: Kevin S

    I know I know, but trust me I have been a fan for both the Suns and Cardinals and it is always frustrating to see a team like the colts draft two elite QBs while we can not even get one. I mean I was so existed when we drafted Matt @ 10 and I though we finally got lucky but guess what .. he was a bust and back we go again.

  60. By Chuck 1 on Oct 30, 2012 | Reply

    As much as I would like to see Miller and Grimm gone after this season, I seriously doubt that Whiz will cut them loose.

    I believe that his fierce loyalty will not allow him to do that.

  61. By Doug Woiwod on Oct 30, 2012 | Reply

    Why do they continue make themselves the laugh’in stock of the NFL , on National Television, 7 yards rushing, a new all time low. What new low can expect in the next 2 weeks?? Just about had it….
    .

  62. By Red cards on Oct 30, 2012 | Reply

    This loss was not John s fault give me a break once the rams showed where we suck it’s all gone down hill so I don’t think r white knight kolb is gonna save us give up on the run until the 2nd hafe whiz

  63. By mike hadzinski on Oct 30, 2012 | Reply

    darren

    when is FITZ GONNA MAN UP and start takin heat b/c of him and his WANTS we passed on DECASTRO and the O-LINE fitz wanted floyd but he’s not even elite.

  64. By scubasteve12 on Oct 30, 2012 | Reply

    Red cards- Its never Skeltons fault. And if we put only skelton back there all by himself we would be undefeated right? And no one is calling kolb the white knight. But Adrian Wilson , you might know him, did call him poetic. Kolb has outperformed skelton this season. plane and simple.

  65. By Jason Marcus on Oct 30, 2012 | Reply

    Yes MOJO!!! I agree ,I feel like all these great rookie Qbs the past 2 -3 years are huge building blocks for theses other teams, and we have nothing ,Wilson, RG3, newton , LUck , Tannehill , Even Foles , I guess we are gun shy after Leinart did squat , and I don’t blame them but three years later Skelton as your starter is not a good plan he was not even supposed to play his first year, it’s very frustrating theses guys are all first year guys and there coming out of the gate beast mode, I wish we tanked out fully last year and got Rg 3 or Luck , it’s a qb game.

  66. By Patrick Eagan on Oct 30, 2012 | Reply

    Darren? Any word on Kolb will be back?
    Also, I think it’s seem to consider firing russ grim. Get rid of Mike Miller. We should have brought Todd Haley back in when we had the chance. When he was the offensive coordinator he carried us to the super bowl. Thats enough said. Skelton should be cut by the end of year. The protection for the offense ISN’T GETTING BETTER. IT’S GOTTEN WORSE SINCE SINCE WEEK 1. I want to see upper management go out and do something about it . Mr. Bidwell said his goal was last year was to win the NFC West. So make some change in order to put us into position to do so. I think the cards should bring back Dennis Green has gm because Ken Whisenhunt basically took the players that green brought in, to the super bowl. I love Ken Whisenhunt has a head coach. He’s top 10 in the league. I am extremely disappointed now. I just want to see this team win the big one. I love this team so much. But, since warner left, it’s been getting harder for me to believe. I don’t want to give up, but I can’t tell you how much I want to see the cardinals holding up the super bowl trophy.

  67. By BIG RED on Oct 30, 2012 | Reply

    Wow! never knew kolb won us four games. I taught it was the defense like last year when Skelton won us six games (with the defense). Sorry, to all you that really think that kolb is really a great QB. It’s only another mirage in your vision, that’s all it is. So, wake up and smell the coffee! Give us a line and maybe, we will really have a QB battle. On Lindley, commo’ man, get real. Also, get us a real can callome different plays.

  68. By AndyStandsUp on Oct 30, 2012 | Reply

    Darren , you have posted the last few “Friday before”s that the final score could be indicative of the the way the seson progresses. Well, this is two humiliating losses later.
    Know you don’t like predicting, but you have to have a gut feeling: Is this a playoff or even an above .500 team at end of season?

  69. By Darren Urban on Oct 30, 2012 | Reply

    AndyStands —

    RE: rest of season

    Despite many thinking I am some sort of mouthpiece, I’m not blind to the problems here. The schedule is harder the second half, especially with all the road games. Unless they figure out offensively to come close to 20 points a game and let the D have a chance, it’s going to be hard to win.

  70. By The everlasting Kolbstopper on Oct 30, 2012 | Reply

    Is it just me or does BIG RED seem illiterate? I mean read a book dude! Nobody understands words with like 27 constanants in a row. Maybe you can finish thoughts but your typing just sucks? I feel like my 2 year old can spell better typing with his feet!

    PS
    Skelton is a bum. No one cares that you kiss his picture every night before you go to bed. Dude sucks at quarterback.

  71. By AndyStandsUp on Oct 30, 2012 | Reply

    I know you’re not a shill, sir and I appreciate the honesty.( I remember one response to me that you said the team doesn’t always approve of your blogs and you’ve been scolded before but never censored.)
    However, you and I (and many longtime Card fans) have heard this record on the turntable before and frankly the album is getting scratched and warped.
    All “we” can do is try to win another game. Another frickin’ athletic contest between grown men chasing a leather oblong ball.

  72. By JohnfromOz on Oct 31, 2012 | Reply

    Hey….Do I see that the Cardinals are back where they ended last season …..at a 50% win percentage?
    Last year when I commented on this I was told by all and sundry that winning half your games was good……is it STILL good?

    Must be a bugger accepting mediocrity as your team’s benchmark.

  73. By Red cards on Oct 31, 2012 | Reply

    Look scuba I’m not saying Skelton is playing the best I just don’t see this loss as his fault I was the first to say kolb picked up his game but let’s face it he didn’t play all that well against the rams and he was at the helm when we played the bills so we should have kIlled them like the eagles bc there not very good at all , all I was saying was weather kolb or Skelton was At the helm we would have still lost

  74. By jason marcus on Oct 31, 2012 | Reply

    Hey lets all remember not to take our frustrations out on Mr. Urban ,he’s just doing his job, and a damn fine one,we can still turn this thing around, GO CARDS!!

  75. By cardsalltheway on Oct 31, 2012 | Reply

    “Many get overly emotional after both wins and losses. That’s just the way it is.”

    I hear a parrot. And of course it(emotion) only happens to fans, why don’t you point this out so blatantly with coaches etc(Ken W. and Co.)…for the same or lack of emotion?

  76. By Darren Urban on Oct 31, 2012 | Reply

    AndyStands —

    RE: Shill/message

    I wasn’t referring to you when I said that, just FYI.

    As for the message, I can only relay what’s being said from the coach. And I can’t change what I believe either, just as no one here can. I am not a fan. I want the team to do well — it helps me personally on a lot of levels — but I do see this through the same prism as most everyone here commenting.

  77. By Darren Urban on Oct 31, 2012 | Reply

    cardsalltheway —

    RE: Parrot

    If anyone should know about parroting and saying the same thing over and over (and over and over), it’s you.

  78. By Chuck 1 on Oct 31, 2012 | Reply

    By JohnfromOz on Oct 31, 2012 | Reply

    Hey….Do I see that the Cardinals are back where they ended last season …..at a 50% win percentage?
    Last year when I commented on this I was told by all and sundry that winning half your games was good……is it STILL good?

    Must be a bugger accepting mediocrity as your team’s benchmark.
    =======================
    johnfromOz,
    I also was chastised when I, after last season and prior to this season, wrote that a .500 season shouldn’t be acceptable for the Cards. That won’t take this franchise to the elite level where I believe that most fans want it to be.

  79. By David Magee on Oct 31, 2012 | Reply

    The OL has to be good enough to protect the QB and make some space for the RB. This OL needs their butts kicked but Arizona has no luck keeping a RB healthy. With many teams, the RB gets about as much work as a center in basketball. This team has to put TD’s on the board and stop the three and out, putting the defense back on the field. If this continues throughout the season, the entire group of offensive coaches need firing. This is a league where a team can be turned around in a season as long as you have some talent to begin with. This team should be at worse, 6-4 !

  80. By Kevin S on Oct 31, 2012 | Reply

    David Magee —

    “… as long as you have some talent to begin with.”

    Out of 22 current starters on the team, how many would you say fall into (a) the upper third, (b) the middle third, and (c) the lower third, of all starters at their position?

  81. By sarah on Oct 31, 2012 | Reply

    Bring Kolb back please and let’s see if we have a line and running back ! This gets annoying and predictable, remove the line and see if Skelton is the same ! Both are pretty much the same, one runs more and the other has a stronger arm, neither have time to ;process the offense more than 4 seconds after the snap.

    Kevin S , good comments re. expectations . Reality is the team is ok but exposed now, especially the line, Fitz ( he is not Superman ) and our running game. Floyd has to bring balance to the receiving corp. CFL ends in a few weeks and lots of available players can sign, let’s comb the rosters.

  82. By Scott H on Oct 31, 2012 | Reply

    Mike hadzinski –

    And what exactly is DeCastro doing for the Steelers these days? From the sidelines?

    With ALL that is wrong with this team right now, you are going to focus on / blame Larry Fitzgerald??? I could say more, but given your apparent view of things…what would be the point?

  83. By Scott H on Oct 31, 2012 | Reply

    BIG RED –

    So…if the defense won us those first 4 games…then where has that same defense been for the last 4 games? Does the defense only play during the games we win?

  84. By MIKE HADZINSKI C.M. PUNK on Nov 1, 2012 | Reply

    Scott-

    Really freak INJURIES HAPPEN IF HE WAS HERE HE WOULD NOT BE ON THE SIDELINE BUT A CORNERSTONE TO A HORRIBLE O-LINE THAT HAS NOT BEEN ADDRESSED CORRECTL..LARRY IS TO BLAME FOR A LOT HE WANTED KOLB THE CARDS PULLED THE TRIGGER ONLY TO KNOW IF THEY GET KOLB IT WOULD HE RESIGN HIM ? 50 MILL LARRY GOT A DEAL NEXT 100 MILL 150 MILL IN 2 POSITIONS SMHH AND WHAT POSTION HAS TO SUFFER ?????? WE WON THE 1ST 4 GAMES OF SEASON WITH OUR D NOT LARRY..THEN LARRY WANTED FLOYD TO HELP HIM TAKE PRESSURE B/C HE HATES DOUBLE TEAMED ENTER DRAFT WE NEEDED A NEW BOLDIN AND FLOYD BODY SIZE MATCH THE BILL WE KEPT ADAM SNYDER AND PASSES DECASTRO BUT WHAT ORG DIDN’T CARE ABOUT POSTIONS B/C HE IS THAT DAMN GOOD THE STEELERS HE TORE HIS ACL ON A FREAK PLAY THINK RYAN WILLIAMS LAST YEAR….

    VOICE OF THE VOICELESSS BEST IN THE WORLD HAY DARREN ANY INFO ON MY PEEPS ?? OR WE GOT RESPECT ??

  85. By Scott H on Nov 1, 2012 | Reply

    Mike Hadzinski –

    Dude, stop whining. Larry wanted this, Larry wanted that, etc. Are you listening to yourself??? Whether you like it or not, Kolb was generally regarded as the best QB available at the time the Cardinals desperately needed a QB. Period. Maybe the timing of that was not the greatest…maybe that has not worked out too well for this team. Larry may have also felt good about Kolb. Guess what – so did pretty much everyone else.

    Larry also seemed pretty excited about the prospect of Peyton Manning coming here. Well, geez, how come it didn’t happen??? The Cardinals apparently give Larry everything he wants! How is it possible that Peyton Manning is playing for the Broncos right now??? This is an outrage!

    Yes, I’m being ridiculous at this point. But not even coming close to YOUR level of ridiculousness.

    Did we or did we not need a WR very badly going into the draft? Yes, we did. And not just because Larry said so. This team could have addressed that need via FA but failed to do SQUAT in consecutive off-seasons. They also could have prevented the void at WR by keeping Steve Breaston here when they had the chance. I suppose that was Larry’s doing as well?

    Just wondering….is Obama going to win the election next week because Larry wants him to be president again?

  86. By MIKE HADZINSKI C.M. PUNK on Nov 2, 2012 | Reply

    D

    why not post my reply to scott i think he might like my reply ?

  87. By Darren Urban on Nov 2, 2012 | Reply

    Mike Hadzinski —

    RE: Reply

    Until you can clean up the language, that’s not happening.

  88. By Scott H on Nov 3, 2012 | Reply

    Darren –

    Thanks for keeping it profesional and maintaining an idiot-free zone. I confess to being an idiot myself on ocassion ( all the best fans are at some point! ) but at least I have enough of common sense to know what words I can and can’t use on an NFL team’s blog site.

    That said, I WOULD love to hear what he had to say! Ain’t nothing I can’t handle, I’m sure.

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