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Friday before the Rams

Posted by Darren Urban on November 23, 2012 – 4:34 pm

So I engaged in a Twitter discussion today with a fan with whom I have traded many tweets with in the past. He was frustrated with something coach Ken Whisenhunt said today about the challenge flags after the debacle of Jim Schwartz in Detroit yesterday (I’ll have Whiz’s thoughts in a moment). The fan’s problem was that Whiz was even talking about it, instead of, apparently, his job performance.

It seemed to be a good time to bring this up, because it’s not the first time someone is upset with a) what a coach or a player is talking about and b) the media not hounding coaches or players into some sort of bloodletting in front of the cameras.

Almost every quote you hear or read from these guys is prompted by a question. Whiz wasn’t talking about, in this case, the challenge flags, out of the blue. It was asked. He answered. It’s timely. Players always are answering questions. We’re all trying to generate interesting things to talk about. It’s not always about the status of job security.

That leads to the second point. I’m not sure what fans are expecting. Coaches and players tend to have a personality with their media interaction. Spend enough time around them, you know what they are going to get. Everyone seems to be waiting for Whisenhunt to change course now and that’s not going to happen. And guess what – it doesn’t matter. Whisenhunt isn’t saying anything different or handling anything different than when the Cards were winning, and no one had a problem with it then. Andy Reid stands up and says mea culpa every week in Philly and everyone still wants him fired because he’s not winning. The message doesn’t matter as much as results. Whisenhunt isn’t oblivious to the outside world. He knows what is going on. Yet this notion that if he talks about anything but, say, his future or the quarterbacks or the offensive line issue is just pointless, well, I don’t get it. Those things are important, but there are other things to talk about too.

Lemme get off the soap box now to hit some other points heading into the Rams’ game:

– Wide receiver Larry Fitzgerald would like to have a big game. He’s not saying it, but you know he’s feeling it. Winning, though, is still his priority, he insisted. “We won in New England when I had one catch for four yards,” Fitzgerald said. “It’s possible to be done. If that’s what it takes that’s what it takes.”

When it was pointed out he’d prefer to win with a lot more catches and some touchdowns, Fitz laughed. “I prefer a lot of things,” Fitzgerald said. “But hey, it’s the way it is.”

– It’s so hard to predict what Fitz might do this week, but I’d be surprised if newbie Ryan Lindley doesn’t try to get him the ball. A Pro Bowl wide receiver can be a nice security blanket for a rookie QB.

– Whiz said he isn’t planning on scaling back the offense because Lindley is playing. He just wants his offense to do what they already can do better.

– Whisenhunt noted that the last time the Cards played the Rams, Darnell Dockett was limited. Actually he was very limited, making almost no impact because of the hamstring injury bothering him at the time. Dockett is good now. He created a lot of havoc last week in Atlanta – “You see his explosiveness,” Whisenhunt said – and will be a new factor with which the Rams must deal.

– It’s a tradeoff, because Rams running back Steven Jackson is looking better than he has in a couple of years. That may be because he is healthier than he has been in a couple of years (he has 182 yards over the past two games, averaging more than five yards a carry.)

“He’s the unsung NFL MVP,” Cardinals linebacker Quentin Groves said. I don’t know if I’d go that far, but it shows the Cards’ respect for Jackson.

– Jackson will be even more important with the news Rams receiver Danny Amendola is doubtful with a foot injury. Amendola didn’t practice all week, yet he was the one guy – along with Jackson – Cardinals players kept mentioning. Amendola was also the receiver that was shredding the Cards in the first meeting before he got hurt early. His absence would be a boon to the Cards.

– About Whisenhunt and the challenge flags. Lions coach Jim Schwartz screwed up on Thanksgiving. He threw his flag when an 81-yard TD run by Texans RB Justin Forsett that should have been called down wasn’t, which is a no-no – Forsett ran for a TD, and all scoring plays, like turnover, are automatically reviewed. Throwing your flag before the review is officially called for not only is a 15-yard penalty, it wipes out the review itself. The Cards watched the Falcons do the same exact thing less than a week ago.

“They warn you every game,” Whisenhunt said. “They make a point before every game of telling you on turnovers and scoring plays, you can’t throw the flag.”

Is the rule just? That’s debatable. It’ll be looked at in the offseason, I’m sure. But Whisenhunt was blunt in answering whether it is fair. “That’s the rule,” he said.

– I think we’ll see Calais Campbell play this weekend. How much I’m not sure. Will it be Dockett limited from the first Rams’ game? Maybe. Maybe he’ll play more. David Carter did a nice job last week as a fill-in, so that works.

– Tight end Todd Heap has practiced full all week with his knee issue. He is probable for the first time. Yet Whiz said whether Heap plays depends on the 46-man game day roster. If Heap isn’t active Sunday, it’ll be a coach’s decision. Will Heap’s long stint on the shelf cost him a chance to play going forward, barring an injury to a tight end? I don’t know if you take reps from Rob Housler for Heap. Then again, if you think Heap can make that much of an impact, I don’t know if you can afford to sit him either.

– With LaRod Stephens-Howling limited with a rib problem – technically he is questionable — it will be interesting to see if that will impact Beanie Wells’ workload in his return. Whiz has seemed to be warning off a heavy game for Beanie since he is just coming back.

– One final thought, as the Cards head into the final six games of the season, from linebacker Daryl Washington.

“If we can lose six games in a row, we can win six games (in a row) too,” he said. “That’s tough in the NFL but I believe we can do it. It would take a lot of effort, a lot of hard work. In the meantime, we have to focus on one at a time.”


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Posted in Blog | 57 Comments »


57 Responses to “Friday before the Rams”

  1. By DontTakeLoses on Nov 23, 2012 | Reply

    Giddyup Cards. One at a time. C U Sunday.

  2. By Christo on Nov 23, 2012 | Reply

    Good looking out Darren, whether we agree or not doesn’t matter. I appreciate your coverage and you engaging with us.

    I do, as I am sure others; wish there was more of a vocal “circus” type drama levied at Whisenhunt and this staff. I want pressure, for a small market area like Arizona, whom nobody seems to care about; I think we need some drama to attract attention. I’d prefer we get it from winning, but that ship sailed with Warner and it should be obvious to Mr. Bidwill that Whisenhunt’s system is not working. That includes the calm, cool demeanor that is displayed and likely plays a large part in the rather sad 3 consecutive seasons with a 6 game or higher losing streak we own under Whisenhunts leadership.

    I’d say I hope for a W this weekend, but it would be a lie; we need to make changes. The type that only losing can spur on.

    Much respect to you, even if I rail off in 148 characters or less sometimes. Th3_What

  3. By scubasteve12 on Nov 23, 2012 | Reply

    Go Cards! And screw all the fans that hate whiz benching skelton and want whiz fired for it. all their ranting and whining is stupid.

  4. By Nick Pepe on Nov 23, 2012 | Reply

    I want a win. Period. I don’t need banter, I don’t need analogy, I don’t need critics and contrarians, I need to see a God Damn win. Plain and simple.

    I need to see the Cards score more than their opponent.

    I don’t care about anything else. For now.

    Nick Pepe
    Lifetime Member

  5. By in fitz we trust on Nov 23, 2012 | Reply

    I feel in the event of a play having to be automatically reviewed, a challenge flag being thrown should not interfere with that process. I hope the NFL changes that rule, its simply stupid to just let a big play or a game changing play go in that fashion, especially when the initial call could be wrong!!!

  6. By Josh on Nov 23, 2012 | Reply

    Great piece Darren. In reference to D wash’s comment at the end, does that seem to be the feeling in the locker room or is he one of the few who still believe?

  7. By Chuck 1 on Nov 23, 2012 | Reply

    Linebacker Daryl Washington:

    “If we can lose six games in a row, we can win six games (in a row) too,” he said. “That’s tough in the NFL but I believe we can do it……”

    LMAO

  8. By Darren Urban on Nov 23, 2012 | Reply

    Christo —

    RE: pressure

    I thought you’d find that. Again, I do understand why you feel the way you do. Sometimes, in need more than 140 characters. You aren’t the only one to say those things, just the latest, so I say thanks for giving me something to write about.

  9. By Darren Urban on Nov 23, 2012 | Reply

    Chuck 1 and Josh —

    RE: DWash words

    Josh : A couple guys have mentioned it. I would think there is a feeling for some that all they want is a win. It’s not like players don’t understand reality.

    Chuck : If Washington had said “We have no chance to win six straight” he’d be crushed by fans saying he had given up. Can’t win with the fan base, apparently.

  10. By Jesse on Nov 23, 2012 | Reply

    This team has been decimated by injuries. When we lost our tackles, I kissed the season goodbye but was stunned by them winning four in a row right off the bat. But the injuries (then more injuries) inevitably caught up with them and here we are. This IS a good team and Whiz IS a great coach. We just need our starters back and some O line help/depth. Let’s not forget that Whiz changed this team and has taken it places its never been.

  11. By Bryan on Nov 23, 2012 | Reply

    Xmas Wish List

    Fire Graves – name Steve Keim GM
    Fire Whiz, Grimm, & Miller
    Name Ray Horton HC and work on long term contract
    Cut Adam Snyder and D’Anthony Batiste

    Wait till offseason and then allow Horton to bring in OC of his choice.
    Draft QB in 1st round and focus on rebuilding Oline with new oline coach who has a clue what he is doing.

  12. By Campbells on Nov 23, 2012 | Reply

    Sure looks like someone has Ken’s back. To say, nobody had an issue with this team while they were winning is far from the truth. Been a season ticket holder for years, and seen countless issues. Maybe you have a great answer as to why we NEVER blow out our opponents??? Why does every game come down to the last series. Every other team blows out competitors from time to time. From receivers that can’t get open in a timely manner, to o-line blocking, to pathetic/predictable play calling, to being incapable of developing ANY quarterback beyond the skillset he already possesses, to a linebacking core that can’t adequately pass-cover, and even punt strategy, where we don’t punt out of bounds when backed-up in our own end, are all issues that our coaching staff is responsible for. When does “Coaching staff” free-agency start???

  13. By Supercardinals100 on Nov 23, 2012 | Reply

    Darren

    IF potter and massie keep improving and get better as the season goes on and establish them selfs as solid starting tackles for the cards do you think whiz and staff will still draft an o-linemen in the first round even if it means reaching for one just to quiet down the fans about not drafting a o-lineman in the past years in the first round?..I know you don’t know who they will draft or what they are thinking but I mean what do you think they will do go the same way they have been or draft an online even if it means it a reach.??

  14. By cardsalltheway on Nov 23, 2012 | Reply

    “Whiz said he isn’t planning on scaling back the offense because Lindley is playing. He just wants his offense to do what they already can do better.

    Sounds like we’ll be going back to the passing game 70-80% of the time but this time with a first time starting rookie QB:(

  15. By phillycards on Nov 23, 2012 | Reply

    whiz is on the competition committee. He thinks since he can’t sound smart as a coach he can talk about the rules to get some credibility.

    And I’m fairly certain that john skelton was pulled before he broke the record for starts and interceptions. Held by ryan leaf.

    That would make whiz look like he mentors and creates ryan leaf type players. But we already knew that.

    This is fun losing for 3 years again. I missed it.thanks whiz

  16. By Bryan on Nov 23, 2012 | Reply

    Please stop referring to Whiz as a great coach. Get f’ng real. He has a .489 regular season win % as HC and that will get worse before this year ends.

    He luck boxed into having a HOF caliber veteran QB on the roster he inherited and being forced into starting him full time due to Leinart getting injured in his first year.

    Since Warner, he’s come up with Max Hall, Matt Leinert, Derek Anderson, John Skelton, Rich Batel, Kevin Kolb, and now Ryan Lindley. Probably the most pathetic combo of QB talent in a 3 year history in the NFL.

    Our o-line has been a disgrace for ages. Maybe the argument could be made that its all Graves fault, but Grimm and Miller were Whiz hires and its hard to believe he had no input on the drafting of picks.

    Offensively the Cards have been an utter disaster. That’s all on Whiz. Time for a change.

    Like the Nash years with the Suns the good times of the Kurt Warner overachiever Cardinals is over. We need to face the reality that there is one strong area of this current team and that is the young talented defense.

    Our o-line is the worst in the league. Our RBs are chronically injured. Our WRs are Larry Fitzgerald and some other guys and our TEs are a joke. The offensive play calling is the worst in the league and bordering on incompetent.

    All of this is Whiz’s supposed special area of knowledge “Offense”.

    The guy has not got the job done and in the NFL you don’t keep getting do-overs every year.

    Fire Whiz. Hire Horton. If you don’t also fire Graves then thats a shame and says something about Michael Bidwell.

    Here’s hoping a new HC can turn things around with the team and FO in terms of how our offense is built and run…because its obvious the HC and GM don’t have a clue.

  17. By georgiebird on Nov 23, 2012 | Reply

    What’s all the talk about injuries? The defense is the healthiest in the NFL having lost Schofield for about 9 games and Campbell for four games.
    The offense has lost the two tackles everyone was complaining about. Losing the two running backs has hurt but LSH has done pretty good. The real problem is that no one has stepped up big time when guys get hurt.
    On flag throwing- trouble is Whiz is a lot more coherent when talking about flags then when he’s talking about quarterbacks.

  18. By sarah on Nov 23, 2012 | Reply

    http://www.examiner.com/article/john-skelton-one-of-the-few-bright-spots-for-the-arizona-cardinals-on-sunday

    One day you’re a Peacock and the next day a feather duster with Whiz ! How 7 passes can alter a career.

  19. By jason marcus on Nov 23, 2012 | Reply

    “I guess were gonna have to win the whole godamn thing”
    quote – Major League

  20. By BIG RED on Nov 24, 2012 | Reply

    It sure hurts not playing the cowboys, at least that would have been a win.

  21. By Christo on Nov 24, 2012 | Reply

    I envision this team like the Niners of a couple years ago. Talent scattered about, a couple of Elite folks on either side of the ball.

    What we are missing is Coaching and a System that works, or that is adapted to it’s personnel.

    The Super Bowl run and ensuing season were great. Let’s not forget how mediocre we were. That was a “run”. Proven today that it is not sustained.

    Even though it was a bone headed move to bench Skelton (I never have liked Skelton, the player not the man) that’s not why Whis needs to go. Whis is 17 and 25 since Warner left, he was barely .500 with him.

    Time for change #Birdgang. We vote with our wallets, we vote with our comments here, we vote with our calls to radio, and we vote with editorial submissions.

    Let’s get this ship headed in the right direction. Quit making excuses, all we want are results.

  22. By Gary on Nov 24, 2012 | Reply

    If Whiz’s goal is to lose the next six games then he is right on track. What is he thinking starting Lindley over Skelton. He might as well just bench the whole defense and save them for next year. His decision to start Lindley is so bad it’s right up there with starting Derrick Anderson. He has completely lost all the respect that I had for him as a head coach. I can’t see Whiz coaching this team next year after losing 12 games in a row.

  23. By Chuck 1 on Nov 24, 2012 | Reply

    Time to hire Bill Cowher.

  24. By Chuck 1 on Nov 24, 2012 | Reply

    I agree with Whiz’s decision to insert Lindley when Skelton overthrew a wide open Fitz. That was the straw that broke the camel’s back. It was and is time to find out if Lindley can cut it in the NFL, just as Skelton was given the opportunity to show his stuff. I also hope, since the Cards will not make the playoffs and it is unlikely that Kolb will be 100% in the next few games, that Lindley starts the next three games and then Kolb starts the last three games to show why he should be kept in 2013.

    The Skelton fiasco has shown the folly of Granes, Keim and Whiz drafting a QB from Fordham, that football powerhouse, in the sixth round and expecting him to be an adequate QB in the NFL. And, another folly: Whiz naming Skelton as the #1 QB before the first game.

    Why should anyone expect the Cards’ QB and OL situations to improve when Michael Bidwill and the “FO” won’t pony up in Free Agency or spend some high draft picks to get top quality players???????? We can argue about whether the QB or OL positions need to be fixed FIRST, but it should be obvious that ONE OF THEM NEEDS TO BE i.e. not WRs, RBs, DLs, LBS etc. etc. etc.

  25. By Rugbymuffin on Nov 24, 2012 | Reply

    As a man who has done a pretty good job during the ever changing social-media, I mean when Urban started this gig, the site didn’t even have a blog, let alone news articles, and blogs people can comment on.

    Then Facebook-Twitter-etc.-etc.

    I say, Get on your Soap Box more. It is interesting.

  26. By Darren Urban on Nov 24, 2012 | Reply

    Super cardinals —

    RE: first round

    I think if the Cards really like a tackle in the first round, I still take him even if Potter and Massie show something.

    I’m not taking a “reach” pick to placate fans or because there is a need. Dangerous way to think.

  27. By Chuck 1 on Nov 24, 2012 | Reply

    Darren,

    Surely in 100+ Division I schools (or whatever the biggest schools are called now), there must be ONE OUTSTANDING TACKLE that will still be on the board when the Cards draft (probably at around #7).

  28. By shannon robinson on Nov 24, 2012 | Reply

    Darren: You bring high quality journalism to the Cardinals’ Fan Base. I know a lot about this team thanks to you. As to the “sky is falling” chorus – when did firing people become such an easy decision? What I want for Christmas is to see the Cards perform as designed. That means a dominating running attack and open receivers all over the field getting the ball. The defense is a joy so what’s with all the suffering?

  29. By Cert 33 on Nov 24, 2012 | Reply

    I have to dsagree with some of the posters, sticking with Skelton and his season-long accuracy problems is what looked like a rehash of the Derek Anderson debacle. Giving Lindley the start in a season that is already lost to see if he has a role in the team’s future makes sense. The Cards will probably end up putting Skelton on waivers anyway.

  30. By Steve on Nov 24, 2012 | Reply

    Skelton is far from a bright spot let alone the lone bright spot

  31. By suspence716 on Nov 24, 2012 | Reply

    Whiz is a joke and so is his offense. This team won’t win another game all year. Its time to clean house as far as the coaching staff goes. Tomorrow is just going to be another disgusting performance as the cardinals get beat by the lambs for the second time this season. Cards 4-12, I called it in week 11!

  32. By C on Nov 24, 2012 | Reply

    So what you’re saying is the media in Arizona should be asking better/more relevant/more revealing questions. Amen to that.

  33. By jason on Nov 24, 2012 | Reply

    Darren,

    From what you see from Lindley everyday does he seem to have that kind of confidence that you like to see from your quarterback, a almost cocky quality that says i can beat you anyday. I know how that sounds but i always think about the story of Tom Brady walking up to the owner of the Patriots, introducing himself, shaking his hand and telling him i’m the best decesion this franchise has ever made. I am not predecting he will play like Tom Brady i a just like the confidence and fire. It seems from the outside looking in that Kurt Warner had that kind of personality and headbutted some with Whisenhunt and Haley but they respected that and worked the offense around him. These group of Quarterbacks seem to have a very layed back type of personality that just goes with the flow. Sorry for the long post, just venting a little bit i guess. Keep up the great work.

  34. By Scott H on Nov 24, 2012 | Reply

    RE: Fitzgerald wanting to have a big game

    Of all the remarkable things the Cardinals have done this year – good or bad – the MOST remarkable has to be making Larry Fitzgerald disappear. Let’s be honest, it is NOT opposing defenses that have made Fitzgerald disappear. There is not a defense out there that can do that. The man has been double-covered ( at least ) every week for years and he has always produced and continued to be a factor. This year? He is / has been the victim of the WORST offense he has probably been a part of since he has been here. And, well, that really does say something…unfortuantely.

    While the usual elite WR’s like Calvin Johnson, Roddy White, Andre Johnson are pretty much right where you expect them to be in regard to their stats and level of play, Larry Fitzgerald is very conspicuous by his absence.

    Congratulations, Cardinals offense – you have accomplished something no defense ever has. You’ve made Larry Fitzgerald – healthy and in his absolute prime – disappear. Take a friggin’ bow.

  35. By Bryan on Nov 24, 2012 | Reply

    Both Massie and Potter are backups being forced to start due to horrible management of the OL by Graves, Grimm, and Whiz. The notion of us starting them next year = bad news for Cards fans.

    Our “best” offensive tackle (Levi Brown) is regarded as one of the worst in the league.

    Nuff said.

  36. By cardsalltheway on Nov 24, 2012 | Reply

    In week # 5 the Rams beat us but haven’t won a game since then(neither have we since week # 4). The Rams sacked K. Kolb 9 times but haven’t had a turnover since. I Expect ends Chris Long and Robert Quinn to do more damage off the edge and get an interception and/or at least one fumble. OLB Jo-Lonn Dunbar could wreak havoc(concussed Alex Smith) as well by knocking Beanie Wells / R. Lindley out of the game and/or causing a turnover.

    Week # 5
    Cardinals Passing Attempts = 50
    Cardinals Rushing Attempts = 17

    Ken W. was whining about having to rely on the passing game in week # 5 but the score was only 10 – 3 in the 2nd and 3rd quarters. Really? When we are behind by only 7 points with a lot of time remaining in the game we are forced to pass the ball?

    1 2 3 4 T
    ARI 3 0 0 0 3
    STL 7 3 0 7 17

    Ken W.,
    “We got down in the game,” Whisenhunt said. “We were forced to throw it in the second half a little bit and that put us behind the eight ball, especially with their ends and the way they rush and trying to deal with the noise and having some young tackles.”

    NFL rookie QB’s starting record in 2012…
    Indianapolis’ Andrew Luck – Lost
    Miami’s Ryan Tannehill – Lost
    Cleveland’s Brandon Weeden – Lost
    Seattle’s Russell Wilson – Lost

    Ken W. lost out on the “Time is now for rookie QB’s” penned by ESPN’s Adam Schefter by signing Kolb and not drafting one early in 2011 and 2012.

  37. By dan on Nov 24, 2012 | Reply

    Not sure if I agree with not starting Adrian Wilson.

  38. By Credit Card on Nov 24, 2012 | Reply

    Snyder hs been a disappointment. Colledge is below average. Potter has the chance to be an Ok tackle as with Massie. Move Levi Brown to left guard. Brown is too slow to be an effective tackle — guard he has promise. It is scary that the Card coaches do not have stop watches and calculating whether their players have the speed to be at the point of attack — as a result, it is unfortunate, but they will be unemployed for their gross oversight.

    Until the cards can fix their OL — this and next season is lost.

  39. By cardsalltheway on Nov 24, 2012 | Reply

    Top 40 QB Sack Leaders…

    http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/defense/sort/sacks

    We only have one player on the list – Daryl Washington with 8.0
    Calais Campbell 3.5
    Sam Acho 3.0
    Paris Lenon 2.0
    Quentin Groves 2.0
    Darnell Dockett 1.5
    Nick Eason 1.0
    Ronald Talley 1.0
    Kerry Rhodes 1.0
    Adrian Wilson 1.0
    O’Brien Schofield 4.0

    Top Offensive Teams…
    Cardinals Team offense – 32
    Total rushing attempts – 28(227)
    Avg. yards per carry – 31(3.6)
    QB sacks – 32(44)
    QB hits – 31(71)

    Can’t blame Johnny Skelton for the above statistics. Ken W. is a master at diverting attention away from the real problems.

    BTW, the 49er avg. 5.5 rushing yards per carry, the Seahawks avg. 4.6 and the Rams 4.4 per carry.

  40. By wnycardfan on Nov 24, 2012 | Reply

    on this game,here’s the deal………..Ram’s hurting. We are apparenlty somewhat healthy (except for campbell). And we are starting a rookie QB. Odds are in our favor given our DEF play and home game. SO, in my book, we lose this one, holy hell should break out. Wells is back, everyone saying he should light it up. DEFshould light it up. Well they did last week and we still stunk. Our RB last week lit it up, and we lost……………..SO, what are the odds??? Playing for the bottom of the NFC West.

  41. By Chris B on Nov 24, 2012 | Reply

    Wow. People play fantasy football and suddenly they are better at judging talent and coaching.

    For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.

    If you fire Whiz, Miller, Grimm, Graves, etc- you will be in a rebuilding stage. Rebuilding teams do not win football games without franchise QBs. We don’t have one of those. So unless all you “Win-now-bc-I-have-Fitz-on -my-Fantasy-team” troglodytes don’t want to win for 2-3 years, please stop with the “clean house” talk.

    Whiz hasn’t drafted a franchise QB. When he had one in 08-09 we won. When he didn’t have one, he had 1 (ONE!!!!!!!!) losing season. Name 1 coaches who has done better. I can guarantee any you think of had a franchise QB. Coaches don’t last when he can’t win with the inherited franchise QB or when the franchise QB drafted by him proves to be a bust and/or he can’t win with him either.

    There hasn’t been a QB available in the draft when the Cards had had a chance to pick one. Joe Flacco is the closest thing there has been. When they picked #5 in 2010, who were they suppose to grab? Blaine Gabbert? A case can be made for Ponder or Locker but the jury is still out on those two. Brady Quinn was available in 2007, maybe they should have grabbed him! Andy Dalton in ’10 but was he worth #5 overall? Could they have traded up and grabbed one of the good ones? Of course, but hind sight is always 20/20.

    This team has been built to last. The men you have suggested firing have built this team. The have drafted and/or signed such “deadbeats” as:
    Darryl Washington
    Calaias Campbell
    Patrick Peterson
    Greg Toler
    Sam Acho
    David Carter
    Kerry Rhodes
    Daryn College
    Lyle Sendlien
    Hyphen
    Housler
    Levi Brown (I guess he wasn’t as bad as people thought)
    Andre Roberts
    DRC (traded him, but still drafted him)

    They have resigned:
    Wilson
    Dockett
    Fitzgerald
    Washington
    Campbell

    A draft “bust” is only a title given to someone who was drafted in rounds 1-3. Of the 5 drafts there have only been 2 “busts”: Buster Davis and Cody Brown. I dare someone to find a better front office combo within that same time span.

    The unfortunate part of this deal is the only thing they haven’t been able to do is get a franchise QB. Leinart was suppose to be that guy (Graves can be blamed so him). It has been said missing on a franchise QB sets an organization back 4-5 years. I believe Warner being here delayed that by the 2 successful years we had under him. If we do go 4-12, then the organization will most likely draft a QB. Then Whiz will have to win or he will be gone.

    If they manage to win some games when Kolb comes back, then I believe they will keep Kolb next year and draft OL. If 2013 is mediocre with this combo, then look for them to draft a QB even if it cost RGIII money/picks.

  42. By Sackman on Nov 24, 2012 | Reply

    Let me start out by saying that I don’t totally disagree with starting Lindley right now. However, I do disagree with the Coach pulling Skelton so early in the game and putting in a rookie that hardly had any practice for that particular game. We were winning, the game was still to be had. I can’t believe the coach would think a rookie with no practice would of given us the best chance to win. I am not surprised the coach decided with starting Lindley this week he had no choice. He made his bed now he has to lie in it. I just hope Mr. Lindley is the answer. Because Kolb is not! He is too risky with his health he reminds me of Leinart and he cost to much to keep. Skelton is probably going to be a backup Quarterback now for the rest of his career unless he can improve on his accuracy. Plus he would be alot cheaper to keep as our backup. I guess the next 6 weeks will tell if we are drafting a Quarterback in rounds 1 or 2 if Lindley doesn’t work out. Or rounds 3 or 4 if he does. May the force be with you Mr. Lindley for the sake of the team, the coaches, and for all of us faithful fans. Do us PROUD we are all counting on you!!!

  43. By phillycards on Nov 24, 2012 | Reply

    I was disappointed in the past but never upset.we made it to 4-5 or 4-6 most years even before denny green.

    1-4 was the usual start.with the sept road games.but then We play some close loses and finish december 0-4 or 1-3.

    With no depth. Zach walz, kevin kasper.

    Renaldo hill trying to shut down michael irvin

    I’m mad now.there is no excuse.I don’t blame graves at all I think this is all whisenhunt.graves got less money than whiz on his deal.
    Graves just finds what whiz wants and signs him. Ask your self when did graves fall in love with pittsburg?

  44. By rojobird on Nov 24, 2012 | Reply

    The OC coach lacks creativity in his play calling… And if he continues to lack that fundamental skill than we will continue to be a loosing team… Our game is very predictable and without a good QB that can create something in the field when a play goes wrong than is close to impossible to WIN a game… Hopefully LINDLEY has more agility and better accuaracy than what we been getting from our recent QB’s.

    DARREN, what do you think will happen if Lindley doesnt work out will Whiz bring back Bartel( if Kolb still not healthy)…. I mean since he demoted Skelton… THEN WAHT??????????

    TO OUR BELOVED CARDINALS PLAYERS: NO MORE EXCUSES GO OUT THERE AND SHOW SOME HEART ON BOTH SIDES OF THE FIELD. YOU HAVE ENOUGH TALENT ON BOTH SIDES TO GET THE “W”… MAKE US, YOUR FANS FEEL PROUD OF THE TEAM WE SUPPORT….

  45. By jason marcus on Nov 25, 2012 | Reply

    I watched a lot of film on Lindley over the weekend, sometimes he looked great sometimes not so great, its hard to say. He also had a lot of time to throw when he did make plays I mean a lot of time, personally I don’t know what to think of the guy he seems to be somewhat accurate, but hey I guess Whiz knows what hes doing.I guess like all NFL qbs he can figure this out soon or it will be figured out for him, im so sick of watching guys squander this opportunity. Lindy boy its all you now .

  46. By D on Nov 25, 2012 | Reply

    Huge game for Whiz, or should say a must win for him. If they lose at home to the Rams and the losing streak continues with the Bears, Seattle and SF still to play, then I don’t see how Whiz keeps his job. If this would happen, I could see Horton promoted to HC and a big hire as OC this offseason…like a Norv Turner….this scenario would give Horton the time to work with a high draft pick QB, say a L. Jones in Round 2 with Norv mentoring him….(assuming they take a left tackle with the first round pick)

  47. By Campbells on Nov 25, 2012 | Reply

    Hooray! Horray! Super-Lindley is going to save the day. Promise made, to get the ball to Larry. I guess, the double coverage that Larry’s faced all season, will suddenly become ineffective. Can’t wait to see Larry running free in the secondary. Nice to hear from diehard fans, that don’t have an issue with inserting Lindley when the team still had a chance at the playoffs. Let’s just spend the remainder of the season experimenting. Who cares about the millions invested in trying to put competitive product on the field. Let’s keep Whiz as long as he wants to stay here. We don’t need wins. We can just reflect on the 2008 Superbowl run. Chicago’s coach took partial ownership of their loss on Monday night. Ken however, is a finger-pointer. Losses are always due to players, or injuries.
    When does “Coaching Free Agency” start???

  48. By Angela on Nov 25, 2012 | Reply

    Wiz, has always pinned and threw games away because of his choice in QB, Skelton had hope for last year, and this year Kolb removed his head from what ever dark secluded spot he stuck it, and played instead of running from the game. Then our O Line sucked so badly Im pretty sure its one of the biggest NFL jokes. Massie pretty much just lets anyone get by him, and probably points out where the QB is. If Horton was allowed the chance to take over the o line would be in shape, Massie would be selling beer, And the Cards would not have a down year. I say keep Kolb and Skelton, Kolb is a great starter, and Skelton is great in the second half. And Wiz can sell Beer with Massie.

  49. By Chuck 1 on Nov 25, 2012 | Reply

    Chris B.,

    You are absolutely correct, of course. LOL
    According to you, Graves’ fingerprints are all over the excellent drafts and FA signings, but the fact that the Cards haven’t had at least an average OL or QB is all Whiz’s fault.
    What is the responsibility of the GM?
    As Darren told me a few years ago when I asked him “who has the FINAL SAY in personnel decisions e.g. draft choices and FA signings”, “HE ANSWERED, ROD GRAVES DOES”
    Whiz and others can suggest and recommend draft choices and FA signings, but Graves bears the ultimate responsibility.. He can’t escape that.
    .

  50. By georgiebird on Nov 25, 2012 | Reply

    At this point in the season, why is anyone against Lindley playing? Once you accept the fact that Whiz has coached us out of any chance of making the playoffs (lose tiebreakers w/ GB or Vikes), Whiz is correct in playing Lindley. Whiz has destroyed Skelton and Kolb is constantly injured- so why not Lindley.
    I hope Skelton goes on to have a fine career whether as a backup or as a starter with another team.
    The only way for the Bidwills to get off their lazy a**es is for guys to sell their season tickets to opposing team fans so that that the Stadium is filled with the enemy. AZ is a nice place to visit-ticket sales should be brisk even though the prices won’t be much given the supply.

  51. By cobra on Nov 25, 2012 | Reply

    giorgiebird:”

    If you don’t understand by now, follow another team.

  52. By Chris B on Nov 25, 2012 | Reply

    Chuck 1,
    I provided facts and used deductive reasoning for my arguments. You throw out regurgitated talk show teaser sound bites and an adolescent LOL for yours. Well done.

    Graves can be blamed for Leinart, which I admitted. They have drafted 1 OL in the top 3 rounds since Whiz has been here. Graves can be blamed for that too. However, it does not dismiss the people they have drafted and hit on. But a good QB masks OL play better than anything else. Just ask the Packers, Giants, Bears, Steelers, Patriots and the Manning-lead Colts. Having a great LT doesn’t win you games, just ask the Dolphins and Browns.

    I blamed nothing on Whiz. The fact that he has won as many games as he has with QBs named Leinart, Anderson, Hall, Skelton and Lindley actually shows how good he might be. When Whiz gets a franchise QB and still can’t win, then I’ll knock his coaching. If you strip down the coaching staff and front office, you won’t win games for 3 more years, at least.

    Facts don’t lie.

  53. By clssylssy on Nov 25, 2012 | Reply

    To all the armchair experts in the house…
    It seems that Coach Whiz did exactly as you wished and played Lindley…Opps! It would appear that Coach may find out first hand what Buddy Ryan meant when he said, “Coaches who listen to the fans soon find themselves sitting among them”
    Having been a Cardinal fan for sometime, it may come as a surprise to realize that the Cardinal’s problems didn’t start with Coach Ken Whisenhunt. Also, while things aren’t great, they could be worse…just imagine being a Chief’s fan ! Since coach pulled John Skelton, I’ve been paying close attention to other QBs such as Tony Romo, Michael Vick (supposedly decent QBs) and they’ve had some REALLY
    bad plays, worse than Skeltons but their coaches have SUPPORTED them. This team has been plagued by injuries but the management didn’t think it worthwhile to replace players like other teams do but have been content to maintain a status quo and let Coach Whisenhunt take the fall. As far as I’m concerned the organization has let the fans AND especially the players down and the blame goes farther up the chain than Coach Whisenhunt.

  54. By Scott H on Nov 27, 2012 | Reply

    Chris B –

    In reality as we know it, teams sometimes take an aggressive approach and trade up to get where they need to be to GET the QB they need. So, don’t give me their draft position over the years as an excuse.

  55. By Eazy E on Dec 5, 2012 | Reply

    Whiz know what’s up, he about to get ousted hopefully because I want Horton.

  56. By Eazy E on Dec 5, 2012 | Reply

    I don’t support guys losing their job because I understand they have families to take care of and all, but he has done a bad job at finding a QB for 3 straight years when you got VY, McNabb, Alex Smith, better options than this mess we got. O-Line also is a mess, it is playing better but it played so awful for the most part that anything is better really. Not making trades that should have been made(Chris Ivory, Tim Tebow and Bryant McKinnie).

  57. By Eazy E on Dec 5, 2012 | Reply

    The front office shouldn’t be absolved either. Graves, M Bidwill and Keim among others. I like all 4, but they gotta take this hit.

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