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Rams aftermath

Posted by Darren Urban on November 25, 2012 – 8:25 pm

The Cardinals know the criticism is coming, know it has been coming, know what’s being said. Coach Ken Whisenhunt was acknowledging speculation on his job security was “part of the business.” Linebacker Quentin Groves, meanwhile, was saying the Cards have to pull together because that’s their only option.

“We’re all we got,” Groves said. “We have to stick together as a family, as a team and then just say we’re all we got. The fans turn on you, the media turns on you, and at the same time those 62 guys in the locker room (it’s 61, counting practice squad, to be accurate) have to band together with the coaches as well as say we’re all we got, and go out and play.”

There isn’t much more to say on that. Obviously I’ve been through these losing streaks the last couple of years (and yes, so too have you) and I know what’s coming from you and in the comments below. No need to rehash them weekly. Sunday was a bad loss, especially after building early leads. Two road games are coming, in New York and in Seattle. Nothing simple about breaking the streak in either place.

Anyway, on to some game specifics:

– Ryan Lindley looked so … solid on that first drive. He was accurate. He was smart. And then it went off the rails. The interceptions, save for the last one (which I didn’t get a good look at), all looked like throws a rookie quarterback would make. The last pick-6, trying to throw something deep off a back foot, that looked particularly like a rookie. Doesn’t make it OK, but it wasn’t surprising.

The question is what now? Whiz acknowledged he thought about  taking Lindley out but didn’t. It’s tough for a team, though, knowing Lindley was in there two weeks in a row with a lead and the job could not be finished. The Rams didn’t come after Lindley right away. You have to wonder, with a Jets team reeling and with nothing to lose, what Rex Ryan might unleash on an inexperienced QB.

– Somehow, the Cards lost two games to the Rams this season when quarterback Sam Bradford completed a total of 15 passes in two games. Never thought that’d be possible.

– Having Beanie Wells made a difference early, but it felt like the Rams finally said defensively they wanted to make Lindley beat them, and he couldn’t, and that was that.

– Daryl Washington got his ninth sack and Patrick Peterson his fourth interception, and both were nice plays and helpful at the time. But defensively, the Cards let the Rams flip field position too many times. The big plays, like the first time against the Rams, bit the Cards. So too did Steven Jackson’s 139 yards rushing.

– Interesting that the game in which Todd Heap is essentially a healthy scratch, Rob Housler ends up with his best game so far (8 catches for 82 yards). Whether it was the defensive scheme or not, Lindley seemed to have a comfort level with Housler.

– Clearly, LaRod Stephens-Howling was having issues with his sore ribs. So William Powell got more time and chipped in six catches for 63 yards in that third-down back role.

– The question of the week will be Kevin Kolb’s health and Lindley’s status. As of now I’d assume Lindley is staying in there if Kolb isn’t healthy, but to be honest, Whisenhunt didn’t say that. The Jets will have extra time to prepare, but they’ve been pretty bad. Next week will be interesting. I don’t have much more to say about this week.


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122 Responses to “Rams aftermath”

  1. By Campbells on Nov 25, 2012 | Reply

    Lindley was fantastic. Not perfect, but fantastic. After all, Skelton is no match for him. Only threw 4-picks in his opening start. I place blame for this loss squarely on the defense. If the defense would’ve held up their end (and shut-out the Rams) we’d be victorious. Just had to say all that nonsense, in support of all the clueless diehard supporters of this poorly managed team. After the third pick, I was furious at the thought of Skelton being inserted in this game, and having to share the blame. Glad Lindley finished. His picks were as bad as I’d ever seen. Not the result of intense pressure, like his predecessors faced all year long. Let’s reiterate, this season is over. More misery to come. One more time; Can anyone share with us, when “Coaching staff Free-agency” starts???

  2. By reap37 on Nov 25, 2012 | Reply

    I can’t imagine what this weeks comments will look like. None pretty I’m sure. It was sad to watch this game as I really felt bad for the players who I genuinely like. All I have to say is that we still do not have QB who can create the confidence that is so needed. Probably beating a dead horse, but is there any chance we can bite the bullet and draft the future next year? None of these guys can hack it, either through injuries, accuracy, or decision making. Since year is over, now what?

  3. By Steve on Nov 25, 2012 | Reply

    Darren: I thought that despite the loss that our Oline probably played their best game of the season. No sacks given up and Lindley generally had time to throw. Did Whiz mention their performance at all post game?

  4. By Cardfan on Nov 25, 2012 | Reply

    last week I kinda jumped on someone for being down in the mouth too much, this week feel free I am done. At this point just loose every game so we can get the first round draft pick, and a new OC. Frustrated.

  5. By Campbells on Nov 25, 2012 | Reply

    Just look at the game statistics. Nothing the Rams did was responsible for their lopsided victory tonight. Cardinal defense certainly played good enough for us to get the win. So, what’s left? Was it Lindley’s terrible interceptions? None of which were a result of the intense pressure that Kolb and Skelton faced all year long. Was he sacked more than once? Receivers were open all day. I sincerely feel that he grew too confident, after his promising start. In order to win, you need to have discretion. You have to throw it away, when nobody’s open. He didn’t do that. So glad Ken didn’t stick Skelton in there after the game was lost. Skelton has been the scapegoat for too long. This one’s on you, Ken. Who’s left to bench? Anyway, when does “Coaching staff Free-agency” start???

  6. By Ottis Anderson Fan on Nov 25, 2012 | Reply

    One more nail in the Whiz/Grimm/Graves coffin. Five more to go and we can bury them all.

  7. By Alan on Nov 25, 2012 | Reply

    Thought Lindley looked good in 1st half and saw some promise in him. If Kolb is healthy then go with him, if not let Lindley have another go and see if he is more consistant…

  8. By Steve on Nov 25, 2012 | Reply

    oops they did give up 2 sacks but still a good job I thought

  9. By rufus on Nov 25, 2012 | Reply

    Yes, I will rehash that Whisenhunt and Graves have to go. Until it happens, the fans should speak out. No need to put up with another losing season in 2013. It’s time to put the Warner glory days behind and admit that Wiz and Graves cannot put together a winner on the field without Warner.

  10. By NJAzCardsFan on Nov 25, 2012 | Reply

    I’m glad, I didn’t waste my time watching the Cards lose their 7th game in a row…….

    The Jets WR’s are horrible as they drop alot of passes. This should make for an interesting game for the Cards as they are in the same state of disarray as the Jets.

    Just plain ugly…….

  11. By sarah on Nov 25, 2012 | Reply

    Please fill out the Change.Org if you so desire. What a waste of money today. It was obvious that Lindley was not happening after the 1st, why throw a season the last 2 games with 5 INT’s , the Cards actually got lucky today as STL left 2 TD’s on the table, one after an INT and the other intercepted in the end zone plus a missed field goal. STL could have easily scored over 40 points. Whiz purposely made a ding dong move to teach a lesson and it has backfired, these last two games the other team was serving us a win. Bradford was horrible most of the game and they still won ! Ken Whizenhunt needs fired end of story playing a rookie who has not won an NFL game, nice experiment but it altered any chance of a wildcard berth.

    http://www.change.org/en-CA/petitions/fire-ken-whizenhunt-replace-ken-whizenhunt

  12. By AndyStandsUp on Nov 25, 2012 | Reply

    Is the season in “evaluating” stage, Darren? ( And I know you and EVERY week is assesing personnel.)
    To me, sadly; yes.

  13. By Patrick Eagan on Nov 25, 2012 | Reply

    i turned the game after the 2nd interception. the playoffs are completely out of question. I can’t wait till the offseason to see the changes. all i have to say.

  14. By cardsalltheway on Nov 25, 2012 | Reply

    We can’t beat the Rams now, well it ain’t going to get easier since they have 4 draft picks in the first 2 rounds April/2013. Cardinals – NFC bottom dwellers it is. Each or all of those NFC West teams have hired new coaches since Ken W. arrived in AZ and look how he has lost it. Heck, even Mike Singletary’s 49ers had Ken W.’s number. Remove the hazy foggy clouds!

  15. By JC_AZ on Nov 25, 2012 | Reply

    Ridiculous loss to a team with one player…no one will be held accountable this loss, and the last one were a direct result of coaching decisions, play-calling, dropped passes and inadequate QB play… the options are minimal and the reasons for that are in FO and the coaching staff… I have had season tickets for 20 years and the last 2 games were the first and only games I have walked out in the 4Q…it is getting worse to watch all the time, and for the first time I am wondering if the $3k spent every year is worth my time and investment…pathetic

    Making a change to start Lindley… fine, but based on what was happening and remembering how he ALSO did NOTHING in the last game, maybe giving Skelton a chance to redeem himself was an option after TWO Pick 6’s? Egos are way to big for success at this point

  16. By Evan on Nov 25, 2012 | Reply

    Hi Darren,

    Isn’t there typically a more exact and heavily publicized projection as to when an injured, starting quarterback is going to return? Instead of “Progressing nicely, might see Kolb against the Jets, but definitely against the Seahawks,” his status seems very obscure for some reason. Is it me?

    And if Kolb does come back sometime soon (and manages to stay healthy, which is a huge assumption), where do you see us finishing? 7-9? 8-8? And if we somehow salvage a .500 season, do you think it’ll be enough for Whiz to keep his job for another year …or is the writing on the wall at this point?

    First time ever in NFL history that a 4-0 team went on to lose the next 7 games.

  17. By INSOMAN1ATIC on Nov 25, 2012 | Reply

    Just another pathetic outing from out incredibly inept offense. I think it’s time to show Ken Whisenhunt his walking papers. 6 different QB’s, and nothing looks any better since Warner left. The fact that he yanked Skelton when we were still up last game was boggling. Lindley had quite a few overthrows himself this game.

  18. By Mr Robles on Nov 25, 2012 | Reply

    When the Rams would run stretch plays, Wow wow holding not to mention Washington was tackled on that short yardage…Ref’s gotta do a better job too. If Coach is holding everyone respondsible Miller’s play calling lagged bad after the 1st Quarter. To many short passes why not go deep twice in a row with Fitz ITS Fitz field needs to be stretched that was to easy for Jenkins.So dissapointed

  19. By Mark, From Chandler on Nov 25, 2012 | Reply

    The Silver lining:
    75% of the teams in the NFL are very close to being dominate and very close to crashing and burning. I think the Cards fall into that catagory. A play here or there, some added talent here or there, maybe some better coaching here or there and a losing team can be a playoff team from one year to the next. Here are some silver linngs to help us through the rest of the season.

    Ok, Lindley made some bad decisions that turned out to be horrid, but you could also see what the coaches have seen in practice. I say you ride him to the end of the season unless you start to do more harm than good to Lindley. Lets face it what are the options. Kolb seems best suited to the back up role and Skelton appears done in AZ. See what Lindleyy has before we hit the eject button. The draft does not have any obvious winners at QB. What we don’t know is if he will become Troy Aikman ( who looked poor his rookie season but did alright as a career) or Max Hall. Roll with Lindley so you have more info in the off season toe make decisions.

    Another bright spot was Potter who has looked better every game. If he continues to improve he may be the future at LT. Massie has not been as poor either.

    Housler seems to be improving as well.

    Roberts and the rest of the receiving corp behind Fitz are peforming relatively well.

    Groves has talent and provides depth to OLB.

    Carter can play DE well.

    As we get closer to the end of the season we can start to define needs going forward but right now we need to see what is fixable and what needs replacing in the off season. knee-jerk responses tend to lead to conistantly poor franchises.

  20. By sarah on Nov 25, 2012 | Reply

    As Darren and Kent Somers pointed out and pretty obvious to anyone, for some reason the Rams did not blitz a rookie to start, once they did he unwound. I mean any team could have won our last 2 games, our second half today we did not score a point ! I would rather have a QB that ends strong and starts slow as opposed to a quick start and then disaster. It should have been a much higher score for STL that is our consolation ! The is not pre-season and we are auditioning QB’s who need to gain experience as Whiz states. He has some issues that cost us two games that were crucial. If he wanted to be the hard task master he should have started in the first STL loss where we scored 3 points, Lindley was available then and we could have found out early. If Lindley had played against Minnesota, SF and GB it would have been allot worse, Whiz grow up !

  21. By Patches O'Houlihan on Nov 25, 2012 | Reply

    Probably best to put Whis out of his misery tomorrow. Let Horton take over and see what he can do. Then the new GM can decide whether he wants to keep Horton or look elsewhere. More than anything I’m starting to feel sorry for Whis. I’m sure he’s working hard but he has no clue.

    I’ve been a season ticket holder since 1996. If Graves is on the payroll after the season ends I won’t be back. This is as bad as it ever was in the Sun Devil Stadium days, the only difference being I pay more than twice as much for my tickets as I did then. Plus an hour drive to Jiffy Pop Stadium. Mikey said the new stadium would make it all different, well Mikey let me spread my self-made private sector experience really thick: It’s same old Cardinals. Graves is same old Cardinals. See where I’m going with this? I’m not paying for it anymore. Now get your big boy pants on, hire a real football guy, let him do his thing and you shut up and sign checks. If any trust funds have to wait to get funded while Whis, his fraud BFF Grimm, Miller, Graves, whoever cash their buyout checks, tough.

  22. By hotValleySun on Nov 25, 2012 | Reply

    5 random predictions:

    1. Ray Horton leaves for a HC position next year

    2. I wish they keep Whiz, but more likely there will be a mutual agreement with ownership to part ways. (Thanks for the memories coach. Wish you and your family the very best)

    3. If Whiz leaves, Whiz will be a head coach somewhere next season. My guess is Kansas City. Whiz will re-hire Russ Grimm (sighhhhhh…) but not Mike Miller

    4. If Kolb is cut after the season, reunion with Andy Reid’s new team is entirely possible

    5. Rod Graves will continue to be GM since his excellence (sarcasm) in building this team over a decade cannot be overstated

  23. By georgiebird on Nov 25, 2012 | Reply

    Whiz has given up the season and decided to go with the young guy Lindley instead of the older more experienced Skelton. It’s even more amazing to know that the has-been Skelton is only 15 months older than the young, upstart, inexperienced Lindley. What a waste of a season!
    At Lindley’s age, Skelton had accomplished so much in the NFL. It was such a stupid thing to crush Skelton’s spirit and bring in a guy who for all intents and purposes is the same age as Skelton -give or take 15 months.

  24. By georgiebird on Nov 25, 2012 | Reply

    Darren,
    Michael Bidwill should tell Quentin Groves to stop talking and play football. To say the fans have turned on the team is ridiculous statement. A more accurate statement is for Mr. Groves to apologize to the long suffering Cardinals fans who have put up with one of the poorest teams in professional sports. And except for a Kurt Warner interlude- it’s been one disappointing season after another.
    The fan base is solid, it’s the players and the FO that have turned on the Cardinal fans.

  25. By Bill on Nov 25, 2012 | Reply

    I was at today’s game and all I can say about Lindley was that from the end zone row 36, I (read that “I” italicized and bonded and underlined) made the read on that first pick 6. It was ridiculously obvious before the ball was snapped.

    But I’m not going to beat what is sure to end up as a dead horse by tomorrow morning. What I want to comment on is the complete and total utter FAILURE of the front office and the coaching staff. 3 years and 0 quarterbacks. They fail to draft anybody useful at the position and vastly overpay for someone who should be a career back up. Rod Graves and team has put together a solid team on the defensive side of the ball, and they definitely have some talented players on the offensive side of the ball, but this is a quarterback and results driven league. Failure to find your quarterback is simply FAILURE. Time to clean house and come with a different philosophy.

    I would love to see the Cardinals figure out who they want and GO GET HIM. Did the Redskins overpay for RG3? Maybe, but they have their guy. We need ours, and we need someone who has the testicular fortitude to do whatever it takes to get our guy.

    All that is left of this season is pride, which is a big thing still. But it is time to start looking to the future and what we need, and I have absolutely zero faith in the abilities of the current front office to get it done.

  26. By canadian redbird on Nov 25, 2012 | Reply

    RE: COACHING CHANGES

    As much as I would like to see a coaching change now it would be a knee jerk reaction and would only confuse the issue of hiring the best coach’s possible for the job long term. If an interim coach is appointed now, in most cases they carry forward to the following year. Let things play themselves out until the end of the year; see who’s available and go from there ( ie. the Harbaugh hiring in San Fran from Stanford ).

    I think its pretty clear though that Whiz has lost the dressing room. We need Kolb back in the worst way to give us the best chance to win.

  27. By cardsalltheway on Nov 25, 2012 | Reply

    The CFL’s season just ended, they crowned a new Grey Cup Champion. Perfect timing too for Ken W. to move north if he really is a Cardinal, do us right, give back the money he’s owed for 2013, and check the coaching job openings in Canada. The Stampeders could probably beat us with him at the helm.

  28. By Keith on Nov 25, 2012 | Reply

    Thanks for the shout out to all the angry fans urban. It has to be tough to be a reporter for a dysfunctional team but you are doing a good job. Through thick and thin I will support this team (and keep reading your articles).

  29. By in fitz we trust on Nov 25, 2012 | Reply

    lets just be smart and make sure we get a high draft pick, we have a great defense in place.

  30. By dan on Nov 25, 2012 | Reply

    I thought Lindley threw the ball great for the most part. I mean, its his first start. I say start him the rest of the year and see what we have. He has a great arm and looked pretty accurate, just had some mental mistakes and bad reads but thats to be expected. Who cares if we lose at this point? Eli Manning looked like crap for a whole year, give Lindley a break.

  31. By Darren Urban on Nov 25, 2012 | Reply

    Steve —

    RE: OL

    He didn’t comment. And the Cards did give up a couple sacks today.

  32. By Darren Urban on Nov 25, 2012 | Reply

    Evan —

    RE: Kolb

    The Cards usually don’t put a time frame because Whiz doesn’t want to be hamstrung there. With Kolb’s issue, it is so hard to know when he would be ready. Part is how he will feel.

  33. By Dan on Nov 25, 2012 | Reply

    Darren…I, as well as all Cardinal fans, feel you. There is really nothing more to talk about in regards to this game. There really isn’t much to talk about at all. Writers make their living being objective and stating the facts. What is sad is that the Cardinals are 4-7 and will not have a winning season. No matter how objective and optimistic you want to be, this is the honest truth. Until we can find a way to win, at least one game, your blogs and articles will end up repeating themselves, with “positives” and “opportunities”. I love reading your articles and blogs, and respect your positive attitude, so please keep up the great work.

  34. By BIG RED on Nov 25, 2012 | Reply

    @Alan are you serious? Do you still want more blood.

  35. By hotValleySun on Nov 25, 2012 | Reply

    Can someone remind Quentin Groves that he and his team lost 7 games straight not WON?

  36. By jason marcus on Nov 25, 2012 | Reply

    4 interceptions are a terrible outing unless he for 400 plus yards, and 3-4 td, but that was not the case ,if it as early i the season i wuld have hope but now people are gunning for us, is 9-7 possible I really doubt it welcome to 2010 everybody.

  37. By sarah on Nov 25, 2012 | Reply

    I mean we had Beanie back which added allot of dimension, line was good unlike SF and Minnesota or 1st STL game. To Lindley’s full credit he opened the first drive really well, why STL was not blitzing was beyond me. After that it turned, one series is not a career. The Jets will make this guy their lunch in NY if we play him and Kolb should not be sacrificed to the lambs. God knows why Whiz threw Skelton under the bus for 5 missed throws and done for the season after 4 Int’s today. So we get to watch Lindley throw a pass off his back heels and miss Fitz by 5 feet short as a learning curve. Sad that a STL player returned a record two passes for TD’s, only Arizona could pull off this feat ( this combined with last weeks tied record of the opposing QB throwing 5 picks and still winning ).

    At least with Skelton last year when he was learning he was also winning, didn’t throw 4 picks. Whiz has to go, write below your thoughts.

    askquestions@cardinals.nfl.net

  38. By Madriffs on Nov 25, 2012 | Reply

    Whiz needs to pick one QB and stick with him. I really wanted Lindley to prove his worth and he did in the first half but the second half was really bad. Timing is still not there for the deep routes and what happened to the run game in the second half? I still say Lindley plays a better game than Skelton. Skelton always looks confused on the field. Too many rookie mistakes on the part of Lindley and Steven Jackson destroyed the Defense.

  39. By Patrick Eagan on Nov 25, 2012 | Reply

    i really don’t think Ken Whisenhunt is part of the problem. I believe Rod Graves is. Whisenhunt is a great Head Coach, and will be signed by a different team if he is released. I liked what i saw from Lindley. However, those interceptions killed us. Flat out. The offensive line looked good. We really missed Beanie Wells. Hopefully he stays healthy. I can’t wait to see how everything plays out, and how the cardinals look next year.

  40. By rufus on Nov 25, 2012 | Reply

    Interesting to note Whiz/Graves record (including playoffs):

    With Warner:
    31 wins, 23 Losses

    Without Warner:
    17 wins, 26 Losses

  41. By Mr. Ramirez on Nov 25, 2012 | Reply

    It is strange. Many thought the Cardinals O-line was what was making the quarterbacks so bad. I think the Line gave up only one sack,maybe none, yet still our quarterback failed.
    I think Lindley will improve, quicker if a better run game is established.

  42. By BIG RED on Nov 25, 2012 | Reply

    Would anybody like to buy my tickets for the last two games. Just plain sick.

  43. By frustrated on Nov 25, 2012 | Reply

    Oh, I hear a lot of people starting to agree with me that CKW has to go. What you hear, Darren?

  44. By Jesse Robles on Nov 26, 2012 | Reply

    Ken Whisenhunt = Ryan LIndley, John Skelton, Kevin Kolb, Max Hall, Derek Anderson, Rich Bartel, and DESPERATELY wanted Charlie Whitehurst….just sayin. I love the Cardinals, and will always root for them, even today, but I am a realist. Thank you Ken for leading the Cardinals to ANOTHER, top 10 pick, like you are so good at since Warner ditched the Cardinals.

    Do you take Manti Tao to team up with Darryl Washington? Or take a risk on a QB or O Line? Last time we took the O Line, Adrian Peterson is now the leading rusher in the NFL.

    Not sayin it is what I want, just being sarcastic and getting ready for the offseason for all you non personality folk.

  45. By bluepitt on Nov 26, 2012 | Reply

    @sarah,
    you need to give up your little love thing with skelton!!!!! It is kind of geting stupid now!!!!

  46. By cardsalltheway on Nov 26, 2012 | Reply

    Genius, by the time K. Kolb returns nobody will care and only a few will be around to watch. Great season planning I must admit.

  47. By dan on Nov 26, 2012 | Reply

    I thought the playcalling was horrible at times again. I think they should have had Lindley air it out over the top a lot more.

  48. By Jon Taylor on Nov 26, 2012 | Reply

    I don’t know what you guys were expecting to happen starting a 6th round rookie from the Mountain West who in 4 years of starting never topped 60% pass completions. Considering the circumstances I think he did well.

    I believe the first drive raised everyone’s expectations too much and they thought we’d found a Brady or something. The first pick 6 was to be expected as Jenkins jumped the route really well and in SDSU that pass is a completion 99.9% of the time. His second was a mistake on his part when he got a little carried away, possibly reacting to the fans frustrations, and just heaved a pass deep when not set properly.

    Nobody just walks onto the football field and is perfect, without making mistakes a QB won’t be able to progress. I know it’s annoying having to watch the same mistakes that Skelton made but if we want to see what Lindley’s got we need to let him make them. We have been unlucky with injuries this year and without them would still be in the playoff hunt I’m sure which again is frustrating but we are a young team and our championship window is realistically not for another 3-5 years yet so time is on our side.

    Finally, nice to see Beanie back, he looked awesome out there and I can’t wait to see him next week. I think the whole team did well yesterday and I for one actually look forward to watching Lindley’s progression.

  49. By Phil Lewis on Nov 26, 2012 | Reply

    Whilst it was a bit of a gutting loss, for sure, I tend to be a person who likes to see the positives. I do find it difficult to stomach some of the things that are said here by fans – switching over, giving up etc…

    I digress.

    Despite the 4 picks, I was mightily impressed with Lindley and talk on declaring him a washout already – which is kind of the gist of some things I have read is premature. Now Coach has made this decision, I hope he follows through with backing the kid and to be honest, it would be dangerous not to for his own credibility. His only ‘out’ in this regard is a healthy Kolb to return. Lindley is a 6th Round project pick and people think he is some kind of saviour. We are where we are so lets give him some game time.

    As good as our defence is, we keep giving up massive plays consistently. Perhaps that is the nature of the best with an aggressive Defence? The thing that concerns me is the defence against the run which seems to give up consistent 6-12 yard plays. Yesterday was a prime example again. I know we have shut out a QB or two but would be interested to see some stats on yards per carry from opposition RB’s…

    Our receiving corps is quality – sorry Early Doucet, but it looked so much better without you last night. Rob Housler is going to be a beast of a TE. I think Andre Roberts is now the statistical leader on receiving yards now and only 5 catches behind Larry. Top work Andre – a shining light of hard work and determination (but look – lo and behold it has taken him 3 years to settle! What chance Lindley??)

    Groves looks an absoluite steal and he is right to question the fans (although he got criticised for it above) – saw a Twitter Pic from Kent Somers last night with a deserted stadium in the 4th quarter. I think QG has a point!

    Feel sorry for Bethel on that TD, not sure he could do much more! That was a moment of class from Bradford.

    2012 has turned sour, but lets use it to get it right for 2013 and that includes sending a team out to win. Any talk of trashing the season to get a QB may be a worthless exercise – there are certainly no RGIII’s or Lucks in 2013 for sure! I would get an elite tackle if available personally and look to get a steal on QB in the 2nd round at best – I think more QB’s than people think will be sliding down to the 2nd round.

    Come on the Cards! – even if you don’t win again in 2013, lets show some quality, some glimmers of hope. I agree with one of the previous posters – I think we are only a couple of key pieces away from being dominant and I have to give the coaching staff some credit in this regard in that they have not reached for band aid solutions in 2012 that are harmful long term in both cap and stifling young player development.

    Roll on the Jets next week! #birdgang

  50. By phillycards on Nov 26, 2012 | Reply

    @georgieboy

    Skeltons accomplishments:
    65 qb rating career. 16 straight starts with a pick. 48+ attempts to get to 300 yrd

    And its not graves fault. He wasn’t at derrek anderson press conference. He makes less money than whiz and didn’t even have a contract at one point.

    Firing whiz a knee jerk reaction? Go look at the 09 roster and compare it to 2010 and the results since. You’d have to ask why wait so long at 5 million per

    Signed, the first guy to get mad a whiz

  51. By JohnfromOz on Nov 26, 2012 | Reply

    To all Cardinals fans who may have been upset by my comments from time to time that this team is mediocre – I humbly and sincerely apologise. Mediocre is the wrong word.
    They are so bloody poor that they can only aspire to one day reach the heady heights of mediocrity.
    Poor recruiting, poor coaching and poor judgement by management has made this team a joke. I can hardly wait to see what happens when they play the Jets.
    Incidentally, talking of the Jets – why not give Tebow a gig – he couldn’t do any worse!

  52. By Corgon on Nov 26, 2012 | Reply

    Yeah! It was much better! Just 4 int (2 of them pick6), but promissing. Better than ever. At the and it was nice to see how precise was Lindley. Way better than John. Maybe it was just my imagionation that the ball flown over the receivers head out of the field 3-4 times.
    I hope this is intentional and going for a good draft position.

    I’ve watched the Falcons game again. Miller and Skelton obviously has personal problems. It seems Miller blamed Skelton for something before the Fitz miss. That’s hasn’t started at that game, this is sure as death. Noone repleces his QB after 1 quarter of football when the team is leading because he missed a throw. That’s just not true.

    Please, please hire a new OC. Not at the end of the season, but now. And hire someone who really can be a leader, with plans an ideas. Maybe it’d give Fitz a ray of hope for the future. It’s really laughable that we heve a pretty decent receiver corps, several good handed TE and RB, and we can’t make consistently passing plays. Short pass not good. Middle ranged pass, not good. Deep pass……
    ….by the way, the second pick 6 was worst than the Kolb Int in the preseason, But the kid is promissing…yes sure.

  53. By Havasu Tom on Nov 26, 2012 | Reply

    Hi Darren,
    O.K. Lindley is a rookie. He made rookie mistakes when they tried to stretch the field. I don’t know the stats but within 15 yrds., I bet his % was very high. When Coach Whiz was has been given a good QB he has won games and gone to the super bowl. MANAGEMENT, GET COACH WHIZ A QB.
    You can’t build a house without a hammer, you get win the NFL without a QB. Management, get us a QB…….Also the line play was much better. Good job guys.
    DON’T BLAME THE COACH.
    MANAGEMENT GET US A QB.

  54. By Rugbymuffin on Nov 26, 2012 | Reply

    Urban is right.

    There is no need to re-hash. Cause going 4-0 and then 0-7 is something completely new.

    The NFL could do a top 10 on ways to lose for the Cardinals franchise.

    I have to hand it to them, they ALWAYS find a new way to lose football games. It is impressive.

  55. By GMAN on Nov 26, 2012 | Reply

    Darren,

    I don’t think Adub is playing like he is known for. He doesn’t seem the same. He is missing tackles and not putting fear in the opposing offense.No safety blitzes.Is he playing with the same passion? Maybe it’s the new rules where he can’t play like he did in the past? Kerry looks better out there than Adub.

  56. By Nick Pepe on Nov 26, 2012 | Reply

    There really is nothing else to say, except let’s give it a go next Sunday.

    And no Quentin, I will not be turning on you. Am I disappointed? Extremely. Hurting? yup. But it would never be so bad that I turn on my Cards. That’s a bit extreme. I don’t think any true fan would turn on their team. That would make them a band wagon jumper.

    Looking forward to Sunday, get to see my first game since 10/09 when we beat the Giants in the Meadowlands. Looking forward to hanging with some true Birdgang fans, an ending this streak.

    Nick Pepe
    Lifetime Member

  57. By Brent on Nov 26, 2012 | Reply

    Obviously there are many problems. To me, the plays that exemplified the Cards problems were in the Red Zone late in the 4th. How do you not draw up a play that sends receivers into the end zone? How do you not send receivers to the first down marker? Basically the Cards put themselves into position to do go things and then shoot themselves in the foot.

  58. By Campbells on Nov 26, 2012 | Reply

    This goes out to all the “Mad scientists” out there. If you’re not paying thousands of your hard earned $$$ to fill stadium seats, your opinion doesn’t count. I pay a lot of $, so you can watch the game for free. Instead of relying on game footage to formulate excuses as to why we need to continue to conduct experiments, and put up with coaching ineptitude, consider supporting those experiments based on reading the newspaper. Investing in a perpetually broken franchise is irresponsible. So, when we season ticket holders quit paying, you can read game headlines online or in the paper, instead of watching them. I have NFL Sunday Ticket, so I can watch all the un-broken franchises play every week. SF wasn’t afraid of change, and look where they’re at. Colts are very good, with a new coach. We need a positive change, and we need it now.

  59. By ben on Nov 26, 2012 | Reply

    well said kieth couldn’t agree with you more GO CARDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  60. By clssylssy on Nov 26, 2012 | Reply

    Steve Jackson is incredible and, there was brief talk that he could have been available…there are players out there the Cards could have gone after or still could to shore up this injury riddled squad. Everybody is screaming for Whiz to be fired but the problem goes farther up the food chain and has been around for many years. Coach has been criticized for not being emotional enough but the impulsive move to pull Skelton, for whatever reason, to appease fans in part and show them how little they really know was a rookie move. His speech about holding players accountable “including the QB” should go for coaches as well. Good coaches support their players (look at Vick, Romo, etc.) and develop their backups for the inevitable injuries that come along . This season started with such promise and we have really talented players who are getting the short end, because the system is flawed. Lindley was a wasted draft pick and while he may be a good worker in practice, he doesn’t have the size to be able to go up against guys like Jackson and the 9ers defense. Skelton has alll the physical attributes and could have been developed but for the politics and the fact that we had a “moneyman” in the wings for whom a return on the investment was expected. After the way Skelton and Linndley have been hung out to be shredded by sports media and fans alike, I have to wonder if Kolb isn’t milking his injury to avoid his turn at being thrown into the arena? After the way this team played the Falcons I know we still have the talent…just maybe not the heart that was there before.

  61. By MIKE G on Nov 26, 2012 | Reply

    Hey Darren–Hope you’re good–Tough game for the Card’s yesterday. They did get the start they wanted and did get a boost from Beanie Wells coming back. Bottom line you cant turn the ball over 4 times and expect to win. Really thought we threw the ball too much. Lindley with 52 attempts is way too many throws for the young guy(1st start)–it puts too much pressure on him and sets him up to fail. Darren–did you think Whiz got away from the run too early?? What is your opinion 52 throws–too many???

  62. By GW on Nov 26, 2012 | Reply

    a cards fan since 76′ when the st.louis cards were in the best div. in the league the NFC east with the giants,cowboys,redskins &the eagles you know how many SB APPEARENCES these teams made in the 70’s & 80’s the cards were their doormats for 2 games each year . I was jumping for joy when the nfl decided to realign because that mean the cards can go to the less physical nfc west IN WHICH THEY HAD SOME SUCCESS (1yr.with jake plummer playoff run and with warner 2yrs.)only 3 winning seasons since moving to ariz.then players leave AND THE CARDS RETURN TO THE BOTTOM to all you new cards fans this is what to expect from the cards…..why? THE BIDWELLS as long as they own this team they will always be ” THE SAME OLD CARDS”.

  63. By HunterSThompson on Nov 26, 2012 | Reply

    Truth Hurts –

    If the Cardinals had held on to that gift-wrapped win last week vs Atlanta….and had taken care of business beating a very pedestrian Rams team yesterday…they would currently be a PLAYOFF team.

    Glass half-empty/glass half full. Either way, the painful reality is that this season is over, and all that is left is to rearrange the deck chairs on the Titanic.

  64. By Cert 33 on Nov 26, 2012 | Reply

    Anyone who thought this team was still “in the hunt” for anything this season must be watching another team. I support Whiz for evaluating his players (even Lindley). This season has been lost for some time. However I do not support Whiz, Miller, Grimm, or Graves to return next season. Jeff Fisher was available to hire for the last 3 years and the Cards should have signed him. There are NO “franchise” or even “starting” QB’s in this year’s draft. The best we could do in free agency would be a Philip Rivers or Carson Palmer. No, I believe that Ray Horton should be named Head Coach and the new staff should focus on the running game and O-line to better compliment the defense (and keep them off the field). Kevin Kolb would be adequate in this type of offense. There are some premium RB’s available in the draft. The search for a decent #2 QB should continue as Skelton and Lindley will probably be waived in the off-season. This team is at the proverbial “bottom of the barrel” fellow fans. In some ways, we are even worse than the Chiefs, Raiders, Panthers, and the other “one win wonders”. I have no idea how even the most optimistic fans among us thought we were still alive for a Wild-Card spot even 3 weeks ago. Only way to go is UP from here.

  65. By Chris on Nov 26, 2012 | Reply

    Any long term Cardinal fan is used to losing. Hell, before the Superbowl? If we managed to have a 8-8 season that made everyone feel good and was rare.
    I think the main problem is, last year this team. at least gave us some hope and put a winning streak together at 8-8.
    Then we shot out to 4-0 again, giving the fans some hope.
    That’s why the 7 loses in a row, are hard to stomach and why people are taking the loses more sickening than usual.
    From very best, to very worst in the same season is harder to take than one or the other.

  66. By cardsalltheway on Nov 26, 2012 | Reply

    Next week’s line, we’re more than a field goal underdog vs. a team with an identical record…
    At NY Jets -4.5 Arizona
    O/U 36.5

    Eight losses in a row is looking like a reality!

  67. By Darren Urban on Nov 26, 2012 | Reply

    Mike G —

    RE: Passes

    I’d have to see when they came. Lindley threw 8 of those on the end-of-the-half FG drive alone, and then a ton after the Cards got down two touchdowns.

  68. By HunterSThompson on Nov 26, 2012 | Reply

    Truth Hurts (cont.) –

    Ken Whisenhunt Head Coaching record (2007-2012): 44-47
    Whisenhunt’s HC record WITHOUT Kurt Warner starting: 20-29
    Cardinals record since Haley/Warner left(2010-2012): 17-26

    The bigger issue is not simply with/without Warner. Matt Leinart was already here before Whiz took over. Whiz had all of 4 seasons to evaluate him personally, professionally, and talent-wise. Everyone knew that Warner was not going to play forever, and the Cards had an amazing opportunity to tutor a solid replacement for him. Supposedly, that was going to be Leinart, based on Whiz keeping him that entire time.

    So why does he get cut in preseason of 2010???? That had to be based on “his entire body of work”, and not just a few weeks of training camp. On top of that – if Whiz had shaky confidence in Leinart, why did he feel that Anderson and Hall were as good or better???

    Finally, why do the Cards go and trade for/overpay Kevin Kolb – a West Coast Offense scrambler with suspect durabilty that absolutely DOES NOT FIT the “Whiz system” of pocket passer/timing routes???? Why does he get beat out for the 2012 starting gig by a 5th rounder…whom then get’s pulled on an incredibly short leash…while WINNING…at the turning point for the entire Cards season???

    If you want to lump Rod Graves in here as well, that is fair. But the ability to evaluate and coach the most important position on an NFL team falls DIRECTLY on the head coach. The track record above speaks LOUDLY as to Whiz’s ability to do this effectively. While EVERY OTHER NFC West team is progressing at the QB position, the Cards are treading in water way over their head.

    Something has got to change….

  69. By clssylssy on Nov 26, 2012 | Reply

    I agree with whoever it was…Whiz is not the problem, Graves/Bidwell is the ite real problem. has been, and will continue to be, as long as Mr. Bidwell thinks Graves is the ear of God We could still pull out some wins if some sort of passion could be stirred. I too, will continue to support my Cardinals win or lose…and, these days it hardly matters if you have Drew Brees or John Skelton when the playoffs are already being announced by some reputable sportswriters and they do not include the Ravens or Saints but instead the Seahawks….now tell me that controversial “win” against the Packers was a honest win…roflmao!

  70. By Cardinal's Chick on Nov 26, 2012 | Reply

    Someone please get Kolb fitted for a flak vest and get him back on the field.

  71. By rdixon50 on Nov 26, 2012 | Reply

    I guess the season is over for me – I felt nothing during the game yesterday. I think the Falcons choke job did me in.

  72. By Nick Pepe on Nov 26, 2012 | Reply

    Anyone in town for next weeks game against the Jets, feel free to email me at:
    nickpepe1@yahoo.com

    Trying to put together a friendly Pre-game outing. We can all drown our sorrows as one.

    Hope to hear from some Cardinal faithful.

    Thanks Darren for allowing me to post.

    Nick Pepe
    Lifetime Member

  73. By jocards on Nov 26, 2012 | Reply

    Now I am not one that heaps all the blame on the coaching staff for every loss, to me the NFL is mostly about the players making plays or not making plays. With that said it is very difficult for me to believe that Ryan Lindley gives this team the best chance to win. If coach Whisenhunt thinks he does than I really must question his judgment….and I know my opinion doesn’t count for much. Ryan Lindley slipped in the draft because of questions about his accuracy. Yesterday he completed the short slants and quick outs but on anything down the field and over of top he was horrible, he missed a lot of throws. Some of his poor decisions were “rookie mistakes” and you would expect some of those but his inaccuracy on anything down the field was more indicative of a guy that is soon to be an ex quarterback. I’ve heard that Lindley is a confident guy, he has a sort of gunslinger mentality, etc….If you can’t make the throws all that stuff means nothing. Most QB’s can complete the short, quick hitters….If you can’t get the ball to your receivers downfield you’re never going to be able to get it done in the NFL. I saw nothing that makes me think this guy can successfully compete at this level. You can throw all the numbers at me you’d like, he was not good.

  74. By D on Nov 26, 2012 | Reply

    Cards will not trade Larry F, the face of the franchise…would also be a huge cap hit…best option would hope that your top 10 draft pick, someone will want to move up and the Cards could add a 2 and 3rd to move back in the draft….

  75. By Louisville Card on Nov 26, 2012 | Reply

    Hi Darren,

    Another rough loss. I know you’ve said before tanking it isn’t really an option and I know the coaches want to win but with the season already down the tubes, should Kolb even go back in when he’s healthy? I’m sure he could win a couple of games for them, but to what end? It would only cost them much needed draft position and potentially open Kolb up to further injury. I think Kolb has shown enough to keep him around at least as a back up next year so why risk him when this year is over already?

    On a side note any chance they go after Stephen Jackson in the off season? He obviously still has some gas left in his tank and will be a free agent in the off season. The cards could really use a RB they can count to produce and also would help them free up a draft pick I’m sure they could use to fill other holes? I would think he wouldn’t mind staying in the division either if the price were right.

  76. By 949Cardsfan on Nov 26, 2012 | Reply

    Any doubt we need someone other than Whiz and Graves to pick our next QB? I dont think most coaches and GM’s could pick bigger Loser’s than our guys if they tried. A quick review of Whiz’ QB decisions over the last few years… Leinart starts over Warner (how bad do u have to be to make that choice?)…Warner retires and we bring in Derck Anderson and draft Max Hall (both terrible)…Then Leinart is cut in order to start Dereck Anderson (do I have to comment?)…He drafts Skelton (avg at best, maybe belongs on an NFL roster as 3rd QB)…Trade the Farm for Kevin Kolb (backup NFL QB at best)…Draft Lindley ( repeat of Skelton expecting different result, u know what that means!) all the while watching guys like the these guys and others get drafted and have success…Need I say more?
    Luck
    RG3
    Newton
    Wilson
    Kapernick
    Tannehill
    Ponder
    Dalton…

  77. By Austin on Nov 26, 2012 | Reply

    Darren,

    We all know how some of the fans are wanting Whisenhunt and the coaching staff gone but how’s the locker rooms perception of the coaching staff? I’d imagine , or at least hope that, that would play a bigger role in deciding whether Whisenhunt is back next year than how the fans view what’s happening right now.

  78. By Darren Urban on Nov 26, 2012 | Reply

    Louisville —

    RE: Kolb/Jackson

    As Whiz said yesterday, he wants to play to win. I know the popular thing for people to want is losses/better draft position, but that doesn’t help the job security of the guys who actually are playing and coaching, which is why the notion of “tanking” makes no sense.

    As for Jackson, I’m not going to rule anything out in November. But it would depend on what he wants. I don’t see why the Rams wouldn’t want to keep him at a reduced rate, which is all he’d get elsewhere anyway.

  79. By DeployedCard on Nov 26, 2012 | Reply

    I agree with most that changes need to be made in the front office. I like the coaching staff but with several attempts to recapture the warner days have failed. As for Groves comment, I only say to you that your fans aren’t turning on you. Just go out and do your thing and guys like me will still be wearing our cards jerseys and pulling for ya. Lets see how it goes up in New York this week.

  80. By Darren Urban on Nov 26, 2012 | Reply

    Austin —

    RE: Locker room/coaches

    It’s tough to take the temperature right now. They are saying the right things.

  81. By 949Cardsfan on Nov 26, 2012 | Reply

    A total shake up on the offensive side of the ball is in order. Everyone must go! Including Whiz. He can stay as HC, but he can have zero say in the operation of the Offense. Bring in a new OC and staff who can actually draw up some plays for the OFF players we have, and their abilities, instead of continuing to try and shove a square peg into round hole.

  82. By jason marcus on Nov 26, 2012 | Reply

    Thank You Hunter.

  83. By redimsok on Nov 26, 2012 | Reply

    Darren,

    I’ve been a season ticket holder for a while now and I’m certainly not one to complain about losing. The injury toll this season has been ridiculous and you can’t really determine just how much of a roll that has played this year. Not hard to believe that if we were as healthy as San Francisco that we’d be challenging for the division this year.

    Having said that, what I do want to bring up is that the team (and the fans for that matter), seemingly gave up with over 6 minutes left in the game. This wasn’t a blow out. A 14 point deficit late in the game shouldn’t seem like an insurmountable lead. In fact twice the team was able to drive down in to the red zone. But what I saw from players across the board was just a beat down attitude. We were in the no huddle but there is nothing I would have called “hurry-up” about the offense. Everyone was walking to the ball not caring at all about how much time ticked off the clock. Guys weren’t giving it their all. I understand that they’re in a frustrating spot. They’ve lost 7 in a row now and most of those were games they could have won down the stretch. But we season ticket holders have paid a lot of money to come and watch them play the game. If they’re going to check out 6 minutes early, before the game, and in this case the entire season, is decided, why are we even bother to poor out the money?

    With all of the other wildcard teams losing yesterday, the cards had a legitimate shot to make up some ground. Certainly the loss in and what it means for the teams even meager playoff hopes are frustrating. But if I don’t see more effort from the team, and that they’re willing to fight to the end, even if it’s not in a situation where the win looks easy… then this is one season ticket holder who won’t be paying to watch any more games.

    The team has 5 more games left. I’m realistic and know that there is almost no chance a 9-7 teams makes the playoffs (especially since we lost to MN), but it’s not mathematically impossible for the cardinals to make the playoffs yet. I hope we see a Cardinals team that come out and puts out a good strong effort so that I can actually look forward to the game at home against the Lions.

  84. By Jahstone on Nov 26, 2012 | Reply

    At the very least…Rod Graves, Mike Miller, and Russ Grimm GONE (time’s up).Promote Horton to co-Head Coach, and grab a very savvy QB guy to be Off Coordinator. Draft one of the three best QB’s. Grab a great back-up (finally). and Grab two OL in rounds 2 and 3. Build off the defense, and make the O respectable again! Thank you. Still going to hames, still wearing my jerseys. GO CARDS!!!

  85. By joe bochenek on Nov 26, 2012 | Reply

    if the cards would have protected kolb ,better maybe it would be a different story now.

  86. By Jahstone on Nov 26, 2012 | Reply

    *games

  87. By Ed on Nov 26, 2012 | Reply

    Darren-

    No nasty vitriol here. Just a thought. This is a good football team, and Whiz is a good coach. Really. Kolb did well when he went in, and had the team ROLLING! But the QB is the elusive missing piece, and it explains why there were talks with Manning this summer. Right?

  88. By Phxhiker on Nov 26, 2012 | Reply

    When you say that Kevin Kolb’s health is the question of the week along with will Lindley start next week those are only two questions but not the TOP question. The top question is how and why did Whiz think Lindley could possibly be the answer or the savior of this team with the limited practice he has had this season? Limited snaps two weeks ago and one full week of every snap last week. That does not prepare a QB. Especially a rookie. That is throwing fresh meat into the lions den. And any other thought by Whiz was just wishful -and dumb- thinking.

    Whiz needs to stop deflecting the blame to others whether they be coaches or players. He has yet to stand up and refreshingly state he and his system and his play sheet are the problem. These last few weeks his temper has eluded his patience and has embarrassed himself,

    People want to give him a break for taking us to the Superbowl. That was four seasons ago. I think he has been repaid for that wonderful memory. He has pushed the envelope on that way beyond the joy he gave us. He can’t ride that coattail any longer. He has to smarten up his system which is outdated as well as his play sheet or do the honorable thing and leave.

  89. By jocards on Nov 26, 2012 | Reply

    I’ve been a Cardinals fan since they played in STL and there have only been two constants, losing and the Bidwill family. You can’t fire the owners so I fear that Cardinals fans are in for a boatload of disappointment for as long as the Bidwill family owns this team. I know there are “younger” fans or simply fans that adopted the team after their move to Arizona that are not fully familiar with the history of this organization. I’m not going to restate the gory details here but if one were to research the history of this team they’d find a record of futility that is absolutely staggering by NFL standards….for all of professional sports really. Most of the negative, desperate and downright despondent comments I read here reflect the same feelings that true fans of the Cardinals have felt almost every season for 40 years or more….and the Bidwill family has owned the team since the ‘30s. Every couple of decades or so there is a flicker of success to a degree…not much but a winning season here or there however this organization always quickly returns to being doormats of the league. Unfortunately the true fans are relegated year after year to watching this hopeless organization flounder on the field. As long as the Bidwills run things it will undoubtedly continue to be so and my Sundays will continue to be disappointing.

  90. By Darren Urban on Nov 26, 2012 | Reply

    Ed —

    RE: QB

    I have said many times, that is my thought process. It starts with the QB position.

  91. By wnycardfan on Nov 26, 2012 | Reply

    what else can you say beyond all these commets??? Misery loves company. I put my fork in them the game prior to Falcon’s game because I’ve seen this played out for 20+ years (but even more telling, over the last 3 years)/ They have no answer to changes/changing, best example is the QB rotation the last 3 years. Who else has done that??? Add to that the losing streaks, why ISN”T the coaching staff on one of the biggest hot seats in the NFL?????
    Another new record for poor play (losing 7 after 4 wins), how many more of these records can we break in one year???
    Wasn’t there another record we helped fix (2 int for TD by rookie since 1960??) Awesome, another one
    Whiz’s decisions need to be examined closely by who ever holds him accountable (Does anyone?????). They are screwed up. Miller sucks, Grimm sucks. Why do you let a rookie throw 52 times??? Why is Wells only rush 17 times for 48 yards???? Where was he? Great 2 tD’s, thats good. But don’t you think we need a bit more rushing and more than a 2.5 yr avg from our main guy? Why do you call a screen pass to WR on 4th an 6????
    Is it the goal of this organization to WIN, or simply exist in the NFL? Why are we vanilla every damn game? and why since forever? With the VERY rare exception of the Warner years, the Plummer year, and the jim Hart years, this team has stunk. Get some credibility back and the fans interested again and clean house of the leadership, bring someone decnet in (not your bargain basement coach) and tell him to play angry. Get a freaking QB for the love of God. Even a solid 2nd stringer who you can rely on game in and game out would be a upgrade from what we have here. Why do the other 3 teams in our diviison have at least SOMETHING going on in their QB’s over the last 3 years and we have crap?

  92. By jesus on Nov 26, 2012 | Reply

    Groves, quit crying and play some good football. Give us a reason not to guit on the team. But reality the team (offense) quit on us.

    Miller needs to go ASAP

    Skelton-always a short leash
    Rookie season came in wins 2 games and a couple of bad ints against 49ers, whiz shows him the bench. Yet we had to tolerate Anderson and Hall poor play

    He is not the greatest but his leash has always been short yet has put up the most wins last 3 seasons.

    Explain whiz!

    Oh and please trade Fitz, give him a chance to win.
    We are wasting one of the greatest talents.

    Until Miller is fired, I will not watch another game!

  93. By Dennis on Nov 26, 2012 | Reply

    Everyone wants to speculate what the Cards need to do. I guess I’m no different. Getting rid of Fitzgerald for multiple draft picks is an idea; but the Cards would find a way to muck it up. So leave him alone. There have been only three QB’s that have won since the Cards moved to Phoenix…Lomax (career ending hip injury), Plummer (one playoff year) went to Denver and Warner (retired). Drafting a QB has to be a #1 priority. Even if we have to give up a draft choice to get the best available.

  94. By Mackay on Nov 26, 2012 | Reply

    Wow. Losing at home to St. Louis. Now the Rams aren’t as bad as they once were, but apparently the Cards are. The three major moves I have seen have been to bench Skelton for an unprepared, rookie late round QB, bench A-Dub for two back-up safeties, and put a hybrid corner/safety/special teams man on the fastest man on the field. The Cardinals need to shore up 6 positions to be competitive again (not including the coach who should clearly move on, oh and for the love of God please fire Grimm), CB, ILB (Paris Lenon is a liability in coverage), and safety. For the O it is the LT, RG, and QB. This is assuming L Brown comes back fine and moves to RT. Snyder gone, Nate Potter would be great as a back-up, but is below average as a starter. QB, they need this the most, and there is no hope in sight. The top rated QB’s of this draft are looking mediocre at best.

    I only ask 2 things of the Cards. Fire Grimm. Fire the unproven O-Coordinator. Whiz can stay for one more season then let R. Horton take over from there.

  95. By Hammy on Nov 26, 2012 | Reply

    TIME TO CLEAN HOUSE AND BUILD FROM THE GROUND UP AGAIN! Fire Graves and promote Kleim to General Manager… wasnt he part of the Patriots personnel department???? LOOONG TIME CARDINALS FAN AND SUPPORTER, EMBARRASSED TO BE A FAN. LOVE THE CARDINALS YEAR IN AND YEAR OUT AND WILL NEVER LEAVE BUT COMON CAN WE GET A BREAK?

    REMEMBER IN WHIZ WE TRUST???

    FIRE KEN WHISENHUNT AND MAKE AND BRING BACK DENNY GREEN, AT LEAST HE WAS REAL WITH US. “THE RAMS ARE WHO WE THOUGHT THEY WERE”! AND WE LET THEM OFF THE HOOK!

    GO CARDINALS!

  96. By rodgerscromartie17 on Nov 26, 2012 | Reply

    3 seasons, 6 quarterbacks later, and another below average team in the league comes to the desert and returns 2 picks for touchdowns in one game (dont forget the home game against Tampa Bay when Anderson completely lost the game by himself despite a great team effort)

  97. By KKfan on Nov 26, 2012 | Reply

    Again guys, I fully understand your angst over the type of season you are having. Much like my Eagles. We are having the same type of comments being posted on our site regarding our coaches etc as well. So I fully can empathize with you.

    Since I don’t get to watch your games, I can only go by what is posted here .

    Lindley/ Foles ( rookies)
    One thing I think fans don’t take into consideration with rookies is their role of being the scout team QB. Their SOLE PURPOSE in running the scout team is to THROW INTERCEPTIONS.. to give their defense a chance to practice getting them.

    So considering that, why would fans suddenly expect them to not throw them when being thrust into a real game? When that is ALL they have been doing EVERY WEEK, all season.. It takes time to over come that tendency. Of course you would hope that they don’t throw them . But I am never surprised or greatly upset when they do.

    Another of my pet peeves is why coaches (and fans too) think one week of getting all the reps ( which actually consists of about an hour or two each day for 3-4 days . is suddently going to work wonders for the rookie. The practice reps don’t prepare you for the speed of the game. Adjusting to the speed of the game is the hardest thing for any rookie to adapt to. If he has the smarts he can eventually do so. Evenntually it slows doen for them. But that isn’t going to happen in one game or even a couple of games. It takes repeated playing time.

    We get another look tonight at Foles. This should give a little more of an idea what we can expect of him going forward. Either as a starter or back up. I’m hoping as a starter for next year. Vick is due a huge bonus at the end of the season. Something like $17 mil …way too much for a guy who has never had but one season his entire 10 yr career where he played all 16 games.

    It’s tough times for both our fan bases. It’s not easy being a fan when your team is having seasons like this . But hang in there. There is only one way to go… and that is up.

    I think both teams owners have some serious decisions to make at the conclusion of this season . For the benefit of their fans, but equally for the benefit of the players who are worthy of better from their team mates.

  98. By Brian on Nov 26, 2012 | Reply

    @ bluepitt

    I think you need to throw BIG RED in with your message to Sarah. Funny how this losing streak started with Kolb getting hurt. Skelton hasn’t shown us he can be a starter in this league. He has shown us he likes to throw ints. I mean really, 16 straight games, protect the ball. If he was throwing 3 tds a game during that stretch, ok I can live with that. But he’s not even close (see Atlanta).

    Regardless, this season is over. Lindley will start until Kolb is healthy. Kolb will restructure to stay here and we draft a QB early instead of trying to find these “gems” in the late rounds because that isn’t working

  99. By Cert 33 on Nov 26, 2012 | Reply

    I repeat, There are NO franchise QB’s in the upcoming draft. Did you really think Peyton Manning was going to sign with a team that has the NFL’s worst offensive line? If you think things are bad now, wait till we lose Ray Horton to a HC position with another team if Whiz isn’t terminated or “kicked upstairs” after this season and the HC job offered to Horton. The owners are to blame as well, a good example is when they refused to offer Warner a decent raise (with a new contract) after the Super Bowl season. He had to actually negotiate free-agency with the 49’ers before they offered him what he was worth and bring him back for ’09. We need Horton at HC and a “ball control” offense to rest our main asset, the defense. Darryl Washington is our franchise player, not Fitz. With this edition of the Cardinals, We need a Frank Gore and a Monster O-line to move the sticks, not another rookie QB. Our defense is good enough to beat anyone in the NFL if they aren’t left on the field game after game by “three and out” after “three and out”. If kept fresh, they can finish games and shut people out.

  100. By Zach on Nov 26, 2012 | Reply

    Going forward – 2012 is lost, lets get some W’s but also focus on 2013. We need to figure out if Kolb is our guy and based on the draft prospects I think he is our #1 QB next year. That is the number 1 issue, QB

    Are our 2 rookie Tackles along with Levi good enough at the tackle position or not? Looks like we definately need a new RG. Maybe draft a LT and or RG in rounds 1-3. I think we need a replacement for Lenon as well. If we lose Beanie in FA, we need another RB as well. Power back to combine with Ryan Williams, LSH, Powell.

    If we can start with a healthy and improved O line that can keep Kolb healthy and run the ball, I think we look great next year.

  101. By jeffgollin on Nov 26, 2012 | Reply

    Three things did us in –

    The 4 picks (& 2 pick sixes)

    Giving up 2 big play TD’s and the long run by Jackson.

    Not being able to stop the Ram running attack on that late drive.

    While you had to love Lindley’s ability to manage 2 long TD drives, his rookie miscues (including missing wide open receivers deep at least twice) had to have been expected.

    My concern is why Wiz decided to betray 2 gut-wrenching defensive efforts by going with the rook and, in essence, tying one of the team’s arms behind its collective back. If he decided to shift into “let’s see what we’ve got & rebuild the team” mode, It was a couple of games too early – on paper, our remaining games were all winnable. If he, in fact, decided to mail in the season by giving Lindley OJT, I think he was wrong.

    Finally, I have no problem with Grove’s comment – it was just a “circle the wagons” unity statement. Besides, “’tis the season to be jolly…& to make outrageous comments when your team can’t win for losing.

  102. By Zach on Nov 26, 2012 | Reply

    Rounds 1-3 of the draft BPA of RG, LT, and SILB. Maybe a RB in rnd 3-4…

    CB with a healthy Toler and if Flemming pans out we should be deep… Should be…

  103. By Jordan on Nov 26, 2012 | Reply

    Man Whiz really needs to go. 3 straight seasons with AT LEAST a 6 game losing streak. Year before last we lost 7 in a row, now again this year. There is now way a quality coach lets that happen. Now obviously I’m not an expert, but I think that the best thing for this franchise right now is to draft a QB and hire a new HC. There never seems to be much chemistry between Whiz and his QB, which is vital . Just look at Brady and Belichick, Brees and Payton, Russel Wilson and Pete Carrol, RGIII and Shannahan, Tomlin and Roethlisberger, and even the difference that Jim Harbaugh made with Alex Smith. Whiz just doesn’t seem to handle quarterbacks very well, and I think it’s safe to assume that he’s not going to start to now.

  104. By Kevin S on Nov 26, 2012 | Reply

    OK, I am not going to sit here and say that Lindley did great or anything. But he did lead us to 17 first half points, on 3 very solid drives — the TD’s were 93 and 65 yards and the FG before the half he drove us most of the length of the field, going 7-9 and putting us into position for a short FG in less than 2 minutes.

    There has been exactly 1 game in which John Skelton has played in his entire career in which our offense put up 17 points in a half — this was the 2nd half of his very first game (hardly due to Skelton, who went 15-37 that game), against the hapless Broncos. We’ve managed to score more than 17 points in a half in two other “Skelton games,” but I’m not counting Dallas in 2010 (21 first half points, but 14 were scored by the D on pick 6’s), or STL in 2011 (20 second half points, but 7 on a PP punt return). More to the point, in this losing streak, we had scored 3, 16, 14, 3, 17 and 19 points in the entire GAME (and in the case of the 19 points vs. Atlanta, the majority of those were gift-wrapped on turnovers deep in the opponent’s territory, so it’s hard to say the “offense” scored 19 points in that game). So to see a Lindley-led team move the ball and score 17 points in the first half, with all of those points being truly earned by our offense (and not the result of our defense giving the offense the ball in great field position), was very positive.

    The 3 INT’s were terrible (I know he had 4 but as far as “real” football is concerned, he only had 3 that matter… The fourth one was on a fourth down anyway (and got tipped around), so it essentially was as meaningless as an incompletion. (I’ve seen QB’s take sacks in that situation and wondered why they don’t just throw the ball up for grabs.) And before anyone accuses me of anti-Skelton bias, I’d say the same thing about his INT at the end of the first half of the SF game; counts as an INT in the stat line but shouldn’t be held against the player).

    So, as I was saying, the 3 INT’s were horrible but I don’t see how you can decide (as some already have) that he’s a washout based on this, considering how good he looked in leading our offense to more points in a half than we’ve seen out of Skelton in all but 1 game. Skelton has had games worse than this (6-19 with 3 INT’s vs. SF; 12-23 for 114 yards and 2 INT’s vs. STL). In fact, in his first 8 starts, he was 116-237 (48.9%) with 9 INT’s to 6 TD’s. I’d say we gave him a lot of chances to get better. (And he did start to look better in the last 4 starts of last year — although even then, 7 INT’s in those 4 games.)

    Again, not excusing Lindley’s pick 6’s — they were very bad, and without them we’re in this game. And I’m not excusing the coaching staff’s decision to put him in there in the first place. I have said before that I was surprised they yanked Skelton when they did in the ATL game, and I wouldn’t have done it myself… but at the same time I understand why they did it. As far as the whole “we’re going to play the person who gives us the best chance to win,” I understand that thought process on opening day, or in week 5, but I don’t think I read any quotes by Whiz or anyone else on the coaching staff saying that they actually thought Lindley gave them a better chance to win vs. the Rams than Skelton. Now, of course, they can’t say the opposite either (at 4-6 and with a theoretical chance at the playoffs, you’ll never see any NFL coach say, “We’re playing the rookie even though we know we’d have a better chance to win with the other guy.”) But if they basically decided, after 3 years of Skelton getting significant playing time each year, that he is not the QB of the future, then it’s not too surprising to see Lindley play Kolb’s unavailability, to see whether we’ve got anything in Lindley.

    Now, how exactly they arrived at this decision a quarter into the ATL game remains a mystery (if Skelton was good enough to still be the starter going into that game, starting out 2-7 hardly seems a reason to can him for what seems to be for good), but fans shouldn’t let their frustration over the losing streak cloud their view of Lindley’s performance. I don’t think Lindley should be “the guy” by any stretch, but when he was on, he showed an ability to put some points on the board that we’ve only seen this year from Kolb. He had the misfortune of 2 of his INT’s being returned for pick 6’s, but I’d rather my rookie QB throw some INT’s but also show me some promise (300+ yards with some good drives) than just be mediocre all day. (And as a point of comparison, Brandon Weeden, a first-round pick, was 12-35 for 114 yards and threw 4 INT’s in his first NFL start; I guess he should’ve just been dismissed as a bum.)

  105. By ALONEEAGLE on Nov 26, 2012 | Reply

    Hello Darren, well I would ask how you are doing, but that would be a dumb question. I, like everyone else would like to weigh in. Not really much more to say. 2nd half coaching was horrendous on the Cardinals sideline. (The better coach Jeff Fisher) won that game. The Rams made all of the necessary adjustments at half time and the Cards, not so much. Everyone brags at the speed of Peterson. Why wasn’t he covering the speedy Givens instead of a Rookie? Was Peterrson injured or did Whiz think the rookie could cover him? I won’t even comment on the INT’s, that’s been covered quite well. Last week I said Coach Whiz needed to be benched for his knucklheaded calls, he did however bench Floyd for his wrong route. Should Lindley be benched for throwing the ball right to the Rams? I mean they didn’t even have to try to intercept, it was right in the numbers. I started wondering if he was wearing a Rams jersey under the Cards Jersey, that is how bad I thought they were. It is so painful to continue to watch week after week this team crash and burn. With all this talent, this team should be winning, so maybe it’s time to not just bensh Whiz, but fire him, because this neam needs a change. You obviously can’t change the QB any longer wothout hurting someone’s feelings. Fire Whiz and let Horton Take over as interim herad coach, he can’t do any worse. For cryin out loud, the Dolphins gave us a gift yesterday and they threw it away. I have never been to a Cardinals Game, watched everyone on TV. At this point in time, I have no intention of driving all the way from Tucson, paying for a ticket, refreshements and possibly a hotel room, just to watch this team lose!! It is very heartbreaking. I have vented enough. Have a good week Darren, and best of luck Cards in NY.

  106. By Campbells on Nov 26, 2012 | Reply

    For those of us that spent hours compiling stats on Cardinal QB’s, you failed to factor in the lopsided number of blitzes faced by each. Lindley hardly faced any. Next week will be different. Can’t wait to see how well he does while running for his life. Some think Jets are no better than we are. I’m confident, they are going to have a field day, in our backfield. Can’t wait to see how your statistical comparison looks after next weekend. How much money do you spend annually to support this team? As I said previously, if you’re one of those diehard fans that doesn’t put your money where your mouth is, your stats don’t mean much. Drop a couple of grand each year to watch this team, then tell us all how smart it is to make the same bad decisions over and over.

  107. By Dave Chaney on Nov 26, 2012 | Reply

    As my crystal ball gets clearer and clearer, the 4-12 season looks like a sure thing. Losing to the Rams shows that our team is in the process of replacing them as the worst team in the NFC West and one of the worst in the NFL. But nothing new about that, we have occupied that spot proudly in the past and consider almost it an inherited right. People talk about replacing coaches, staff, front office, signing FAs etc., but that has been done over and over with no long term improvement. As I have stated before, in the history of the St. Louis/Arizona Cardinal franchise, there have been exactly three times when the team looked to be championship caliber. The Coryell era in St. Louis, the brief Jake Plummer reign here and the best of all, Kurt Warner’s time in the sun. So what is that…maybe 6 seasons in over 50? Losing isn’t new to Big Red fans and will continue to be this franchise’s legacy in the NFL. Enjoy the brief moments of glory, they are few and far between. Case closed.

  108. By sarah on Nov 26, 2012 | Reply

    So sick of Kevin S, know it all x 10 ! Skelton has actually won more games than Kolb sad as it is, Lindley is a disaster ( Max Hall without a win ). Reality is the team sucks ! Kolb started losing in STL and we were losing against Buffalo and if Feely made it maybe things and confidence would have continued but doubt it. Kolb would not have won against SF or GB ( the defence was not good ) maybe Minnesota but the line sucked. When the line sucks it does not bode well for any of our QB’s especially Lindley come Sunday against the Jests with the center out !

    Making Skelton the scapegoat gets old, you need a new schtick ! Reality is he played his best game against GB and it probably would have turned around in ATL. I would rather have a QB that plays a great second half than one or two series in the first. Seattle.. Skelton had the team up at the half :).

  109. By sarah on Nov 26, 2012 | Reply

    Whiz needs removed, he came down hard too late, however allowing Lindley to blunder when we needed a win is defenceless. He make a head scratching move in ATL pulling Skelton early and is paying for it and is just pig headed stubborn now. Lindley literally gave STL 14 points and almost 21 had Sam Bradford not been equally inept at his own 7 post INT, plus they missed the FG. Bradford was horrible for most of the game but our secondary gave his some sunshine thru the clouds. I wish Kolb had not been injured and we could have seen him against hard teams like SF, Minn and GB, ATL was trying to mail it in and we still screwed up, ditto STL. If Kolb had turned it around great but he lost the previous games, STL we got 3 points the whole game.

    http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcwest/post/_/id/82727/around-the-nfc-west-cards-and-lindley

    Lindley is road kill in NY, the fans there know it let alone the players as his deep accuracy sucks and the starting center is out ! Whiz is doing Skelton a favor I think !

  110. By Kevin S on Nov 26, 2012 | Reply

    Sorry you are tired of my so-called “schtick,” but I find it hard to take seriously someone who posts a petition to fire the coach in which they misspell said coach’s name. You’re making a decision that a guy is a “disaster” based on a game and a half, while you continue to defend the guy who’s played in 19 games, has a lifetime completion percentage of 53, QBR of 66 and 6 more INT’s than TD’s.

  111. By jocards on Nov 26, 2012 | Reply

    @ Dave Chaney
    And actually the losing goes further back than 50 years…and the common thread is that the team has been owned by the Bidwill family since the 1930’s. Every once in a great while there is a glimmer of success, a winning season here or there but this organization always quickly returns to being blacktopped. We are talking futility on a staggering scale here and it has always been under the ownership of the Bidwills….it still is and until that changes I have little confidence that the course of this organization will change.

  112. By Larry Soper on Nov 26, 2012 | Reply

    Darren–

    Here’s the bottom line, the Cards are one of the worst teams in the history of not only pro football but rank among the worst in all combined.
    When Plummer beat the Cowboys it was probably the high point of the franchise in the modern era. Yes, and that’s above the Super Bowl year. That year was only possible because Warner was picked up off the scrap heap and had a lot of gas left in the tank. That’s it. The SB year was not a year that showed how far the franchise has come. They rode a hot hand for two years. The Browns, Bengals or Lions would have been there with Warner that year. All that was during SB was Warner. Yeah, you point to Fitz and Boldin but the organization didn’t do anything to address QB situation or o line. Peyton Manning saw that right away.
    This organization has poor ownership, poor front office and bad coaching outside Grimm. I’d take Harbaugh, Fisher or Carroll any day of the week.
    Horton’s D is nothing special. Even with a good offense the D delivers nothing more than middle of the road stats. Niner D and Seahawk D is far superior. Ask any of the national pundits whose D they will take on a given Sunday and the Cards D isn’t even mentioned. Talk that D up all you want and it still doesnt come close to over half of the NFC defenses.
    Firing Whisenhunt makes no sense, until there is ownership change, it doesn’t matter who comes in here, Gruden, Holmgren, popular assistants, whoever, it doesn’t matter,the division is about to be dominated by Hawks and Niners for the forseeable future past Fitz’s prime. Which by the way, I’d like to see Fitz get a shot he deserves someday. He needs to force the hand for a trade before it’s to late for him.
    Now, I have been a fan for a long time and always will be but c’mon, anyone who thought that 4-0 would lead to playoffs this year is unrealistic. Shoulda lost week one and week two anyway, beat a very weak Eagle team and escaped with a win at home against a bad Miami team. Literally this team should be 1-10 right now.

  113. By Gerald Jones on Nov 26, 2012 | Reply

    and how many of you fans think you could tackle Steven Jackson?
    The Rams are a better team than any of you want to admit.
    Coach Fisher is putting it together.

    Hopefully Lindley will learn from those interceptions, and if he does – he will do just fine the rest of the season.

  114. By louie on Nov 26, 2012 | Reply

    offensive cordinator has to go, you can call 99% of thier plays. I have miscalled 1 in last 3 games, but that falls on Whiz he needs to slap miller and tell him with the formation everyone knows they are running the ball to the right. The play calls are horrific. Also Lindley reminds me of David Carr, cant complete deep balls. Are defense plays good on small plays but always gives up huge plays, this was a sad season with such a promising start.

  115. By louie on Nov 26, 2012 | Reply

    cert 33, I think that texas a&m QBis better then any of the Cardinals QBs since Kurts departure. I also think getting rid of Matt was stupid, he new the system and could have been a band-aide till we got someone better. bad choices by coaching staff has let us to this debacle. really they cant get Larry the ball is just horrible i would throw to him 20 times a game. Lindleys confidence is gone these little 2 yard passes on 4th down. LOL

  116. By BIG RED on Nov 26, 2012 | Reply

    Kolb is nothing, why is it that people think he is the best we got. This guy is just here to drain the money out of the organization and his doing a good job about it. Without having to play and laughing all the way to the bank. Wake up you idiots, cause if his back next year, Im sure not buying my season tickets next year. A SAVIOR NO WAY.

  117. By Chris on Nov 27, 2012 | Reply

    Sarah, I disagree. Skelton has had a full seasons worth of games to show what he can do, and he hasn’t. Go back to the 7-2 finish to last year, and you will find that only one of those wins can be attributed to good play by Skelton. Even at 4-6, we basically would have to win every remaining game to make the playoffs. Whether the management is ready to admit it or not, they are moving to player evaluation mode. Lindley should be given the rest of the season to see if he can grow and improve, something Skelton failed to do.

  118. By Chris on Nov 27, 2012 | Reply

    I’ve read your several posts about not having a say if you aren’t investing in season tickets. That’s ridiculous. Some of us don’t have the kind of cash or time to invest year after year on season tickets. I take my son to one game per year, and we own plenty of memorabilia, including jerseys. I have supported this team since 88. Some aren’t even as fortunate as me, and can’t afford to attend games or buy the “stuff”. To say that these people have no right to complain, just because you are able to drop this kind of money on the team is absurd. I hope you take this to heart, and stop playing a hierarchical game of who’s better??

  119. By Kevin S on Nov 28, 2012 | Reply

    Chris —

    I agree 100%. I had season tickets at one point. Don’t now, because my travel schedule for work would force me to get rid of half the games. So I pick 3-4 games and go to those. If that makes me less of a fan and so my opinion doesn’t count… well, what does count? Is it enough to buy a ticket in the upper left corner of the stadium, or does it have to be on the 50 yard line? Why not make it a suite — your opinion only counts if you’ve got that kind of money?

  120. By Kevin S on Nov 28, 2012 | Reply

    Louie —

    Re: throwing to Larry 20 times a game…

    Weren’t 2 or 3 of the INT’s Sunday on balls intended for Larry? You can’t just say “throw it up to Larry and hope he gets it” with our QB’s.

  121. By The everlasting Kolbstopper on Nov 30, 2012 | Reply

    Big Red,

    Okay smart guy, who is the best QB on this roster?

  122. By Eazy E on Dec 5, 2012 | Reply

    Man we are god-awful at QB. Lindley shouldn’t be playing. He shouldn’t be playing for at least his first 2 years.

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