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Blogs

The future of Dockett and Dub

Posted by Darren Urban on December 10, 2012 – 11:38 pm

As the future of the Cardinals and possible change became the top topic as the season heads toward its finish, it’s interesting that two of the team’s long-time stars also have their futures as topics. What happens with Darnell Dockett and Adrian Wilson, however, is far from determined.

With Wilson, it’s been a tough season. It started with a restructuring of his contract, which Wilson accepted because it is was so important to remain part of the Cardinals. Wilson talked about his legacy, and has never made any bones about his desire to play his entire career with the Cardinals. Then, during the bye, defensive coordinator Ray Horton restructured his lineup, taking Wilson out of packages that weren’t the base defense. Wilson still plays the majority of the time, but his playing time has definitely been cut — which, not surprisingly, hasn’t thrilled him.

He acknowledged to Kent Somers after the Seattle game the change and the Cards’ struggles “definitely makes me ponder about my future.” Could Wilson, who is still under contract through 2015, be gone after the season? The Cardinals might be willing to move on from the 33-year-old safety. But the men playing instead of Wilson on certain downs, Rashad Johnson and James Sanders, are both unrestricted free agents after the season. And Wilson is still playing most of the time. I don’t think, from my perspective, it is cut and dried.

The same goes for Dockett, who is in a different position. Dockett matter of factly talked to the media Monday, answering some direct questions after being benched from the starting lineup in Seattle and being fined for the previous week’s incident in New York. It wasn’t hard to figure out Dockett isn’t thrilled with how that turned out, and was asked if he saw himself playing in Arizona next season.

“I don’t know. I don’t know,” Dockett said. “I can only speak for myself. I am a hell of a competitor, I love what I do, I take what I do serious, I hold a lot of guys accountable, and if whatever situation comes my way, I will be prepared for it.”

Dockett, like Wilson, is under contract through 2015. It’s not like he is a free agent. And there is a lot that needs to first be sorted — again, if there is any coach or front office change — before player moves could even begin. Dockett did make clear he was going to keep playing hard — for DC Ray Horton and his teammates, Dockett said. I don’t see Wilson doing anything other than that either. Answers aren’t coming for a few months. It’ll be something to watch in the offseason.

DubDockettUSE

 


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Posted in Blog | 80 Comments »


80 Responses to “The future of Dockett and Dub”

  1. By Jason Zumwalt on Dec 11, 2012 | Reply

    If there is ANY change in the organization it needs to come on the other side of the ball. The defense has performed as admirably as can be expected. Yes the secondary has given up big plays, but only because play action is the magic elixir against this team. Why? Because opposing offenses can run it all they want and kill clock because they know without a shadow of a doubt that there is no answer on the other end. So our guys have to move up, protect from the run and then BOOM! Even weak QB’s like Sam Bradford have record days. Not Adrian’s fault. Not Darnell’s.

    You may expect me to say that it’s Whisenhunt’s, but I won’t. Yes, in the heat of the moment I’ve called for his head like most of you, I’m sure, but the toughest pill to swallow is this one. These things happen. Whisenhunt did all he could in the pre-season. His QB’s fell short and so he did what he thought best. He gave the “hot hand” (if you can call it that) the start. Well, John got hurt and Kolb, who had finally been unburdened with the pressure of losing a starting job, did something Cardinal fans thought he wasn’t capable of. He balled out. He played hard and he won.

    Well, it didn’t take long for opposing defenses to figure out our achilles heel did it? The offensive line. The offensive line. The offensive line. Offensive indeed.

    The team needs to move forward. Look to the draft, free agency, try as hard as they can to keep Horton and give it another shot. In the end, it’s all they can do. No need to cut off the nose to spite the face. Keep what works. Namely, the defense and just play ball.

    GO. BIG. RED.

  2. By Rugbymuffin on Dec 11, 2012 | Reply

    It will be a sad day if Adrian Wilson isn’t on the Cardinals next year.

    Why is it this organization can’t seem to work with quality people ?

    First, Anquan Boldin, and now Adrian Wilson.

    Boldin and Wilson are big time talents in the NFL, and true proffessionals, the Cardinals organization’s past speaks for itself.

    Who is screwing up when it comes to player relations ? I know where my blame is being laid on that one.

    Bad, can’t worry about those things, we should worry about who will play the part of “Early Doucet” for Adrian Wilson.

    Cause we all know the great job Early Doucet did in replacing Anquan Boldin.

  3. By MIKE HADZINSKI C.M. PUNK on Dec 11, 2012 | Reply

    and so it begins just like 02season

  4. By wnycardfan on Dec 11, 2012 | Reply

    So I applaud the ownership and the coach for the calm perspective etc over this appalling team. That shows some confidence in themselves/system and intestinal fortitude.
    I applaud the players “sticking” together and saying (at least publically) they have a lot to play for and they care etc….
    Some quotes have the players saying “whiz hasn’t lost the team’ and that those are just rumors etc… As well as the famous (for 3 years at least) Whiz quote of “we sill stick with a system we know works”
    All that being said, then it all boils down to the players suck. They can’t put it all together on Sunday. They can’t perform to “an NFL level” and make it competitive any more. So it reads kinda like the coach is GOOD and his system is GOOD, but the players are not and for some reason, despite them working hard, playing hard, practcing really good, when Sunday comes around they fail and sometimes (last 2 – 3 weeks for sure) they fail miserably. Its like expecting a 5 year old to act like a 21 year old, I guess they just can’t do it. And, the sad thing is for the team/ownership/coach, they have had this situation for at least 3 years (and historically at the cardinals since 1920 or whatever).
    That is either insulting to the fan’s intelligence, a mere front until the end of the season, or really sheer dumb luck to get all those players on one team that just can’t do squat on Sunday.
    I know “winning erases all issues” etc…… But really, a one win streak or even winning the last 3 games this season (so 7 – 9) in MY MIND will not erase this historically BAD season. How many records (of the worse kind) has this team this year broken? Its been one a week almost (either an NFL record or a cardinal record). A win may make you feel better, might even get some players their confidence back, but the damage has been done. It will take years in my opinion, new coach or otherwise, to erase and make it better. Yeah, sure, if suddenly next year they are knocking on the division title door again I’ll be glad for them. But there are so many things that have to be righted here I just don’t see it happening. Many have noted, and I agree, ownership needs to take some leadership here and show they want to win and prove their is loyalty to the fans. Fan’s, myself included don’t always know what is right given we aren’t in the inner circle, but again, show me you care about winning and not just making money with a “we hope” or “we changed”.

  5. By rdixon50 on Dec 11, 2012 | Reply

    Would much rather have them here than Whiz.

  6. By cardsalltheway on Dec 11, 2012 | Reply

    Can Darnell Dockett and Adrian Wilson save Brian Hoyer from ruin after Ken W. gets a hold of him? If Hoyer wasn’t ruined before playing with the Cardinals under Ken W., he certainly will be afterwards.

  7. By Brett n Co. on Dec 11, 2012 | Reply

    Both of these gentlemen should remain here if they leave it just shows us fans that Mike B. is just like his dad

  8. By GMAN on Dec 11, 2012 | Reply

    Darren,
    Ken Whisenhunt says he believes what they are doing is right and he won’t change what he believes works.He is resting on his laurels of the Super Bowl and playoff games.He said that is proof that he is doing things the right way,because he has won doing things what he believes is the right way.Well this is the NFL(Not For Long).Do you believe Ken is doing things the right way based on the results? Should he have brought Vince Young in for a tryout?

  9. By canadian redbird on Dec 11, 2012 | Reply

    RE: Dockett

    If Dockett is traded, there will be teams lined up for his services. More important is that would be a signal that we have Whiz for another year. I get that 90 is a different sort, but he plays hard and in my opinion would b better suited to a 4 – 3 than the 3 – 4. If Whiz is released, I don’t see him latching onto any HC position soon and hard pressed to see him as an OC based on what hasn’t happened here in the desert.

    I think at season’s end we should consider offering a 4th rounder for Rolando McLain if the 3 – 4 scheme is kept in tact.

    Wish we were talking about playoffs instead of all this BS; maybe next year under new leadership.

  10. By john the draft guy on Dec 11, 2012 | Reply

    I don’t agree with Dockett at all.

    Neither of these guys gave 100% in the second half of the Seahawks game.

    For Dockett, who will be 32 next year and makes a good salary, it might be time to see if there are any takers on the trade market. With the emergence of David Carter and Ronald Talley becoming a solid rotational guy, It may be time to move on. If you can get a Boldin deal, move him.

    As for Wilson, I agree Darren, that we don’t have his replacement. Clearly, we will have to look at FAs to fill his spot. Therefore, I don’t know if he will be gone.

    On another note, I was watching the Barry Sanders story. I sure hope Fitz doesn’t pull a Barry and retire out of the blue. Barry has a 2000 yard year then 1490 yard year, then left. He was still on top but lost his passion. Fitz, over the last 4 games looks like a player who lost some passion. Hang in there Larry. Just maybe, they will draft a QB who can get you the ball.

  11. By IACardinal on Dec 11, 2012 | Reply

    I wil be sick to my stomach is AZ let’s those two go…..if that happens, I wouldn’t be surprised if Fitz is gone in 3 years….so sad to see this happen.

  12. By Sean on Dec 11, 2012 | Reply

    I hope they both stay. It’s not often when Arizona sports teams have character guys who stay with us for their whole career. The Suns had Marion, then traded him. Don’t make the same mistake with these guys who have such a great impact on our team and community. Hope to see them both in the ring of honor with a Superbowl ring to match some day soon

  13. By miles on Dec 11, 2012 | Reply

    It is said how this organization is treating their players. Wilson and Dockett are hard working players and leaders for the defense. The people are key players for this team and have shown they want to remain a cardinal and yet this organization keeps forgetting them or attacking them for their efforts. I hope neither of them leave because we are going to need them next season with a new coaching staff.

  14. By monzz on Dec 11, 2012 | Reply

    Whizpunt has totally destroyed this team.

  15. By clssylssy on Dec 11, 2012 | Reply

    Both Dockett and Wilson have played an extremely important role in the success the Cards have experienced both on the defense and as team leaders as well. They are fan favorites and I don’t think anyone has ever questioned their dedication to the Cardinal Organization, it’s fans and to the game of football. Both of these guys are favorites of mine. They are extremes in temperament and personna but both can be proud of the dedication and work put into their craft. Unfortunately, age catches up with all of us and playing defense especially, it is only natural that there would be adjustments to be made; that does not mean that they still don’t have a lot to contribute in the way of leadership and teaching young players the ropes of the NFL. Anytime the media gets into a situation , it only makes things worse and nobody will ever know for sure what went on in New York. I do feel that it was mishandled and should have probably been settled off the field between Horton, Whisenhunt and Dockett talking it out. Dockett is a smart man, has been in the NFL a long time and I’m sure hasn’t become a team captain by being unreasonable. Bad situation all around. These last two year the NFL has been a mess throughout the league and I wouldn’t blame the players for being weary…weary of changes to the game, weary of having to fight for every little thing with the NFL, weary from fines and penalties called by scab referees, weary of being unsupported and weary of being beat to Hell on a regular basis with only grief from armchair experts. I wish sincerely that we could all put this behind us and use the off season to take a big breath and regroup. I believe in my team,,,players AND coaches and appreciate all the wonderful moments both Adub and Double D have given us! I also respect Coach Whisenhunt and hope that Michael Bidwell is able to see that our Cardinal successes have out weighed it’s failures with Coach and that league-wide this has been a bad two years for just about everybody.

  16. By D on Dec 11, 2012 | Reply

    Dockett is still a force and I see a dropoff to Carter, his replacement, so I would keep Dockett who is only 31, but my favorite player Adub probably should retire.

  17. By Darren Urban on Dec 11, 2012 | Reply

    GMan —

    RE: “Right way”

    Well, the question is kind of loaded there how you phrased it. Based on the results, of course it can’t be the right way, right?

    As for Young, I don’t have a problem not bringing him in.

  18. By D on Dec 11, 2012 | Reply

    This spring draft doesn’t look solid for QB in the first round. Good players \ depth on Defense. If the Cards can’t move down from thier 4-6th draft spot to add picks and have to take a player in the top 10, my new revised draft:

    Round 1– Chance Warmack ALA (can play G or C)
    Rare to take a G that high, but his guy is very good. Plus you have Levi coming back and Massie improving, so Tackle may not be a high need on the line)

    Round 2– L. Jones QB OK. Could develop with the right OC into the franchise QB
    Round 3- S. Taylor RB Stanford With injuries to both RB’s, need another back.
    Round 4- K. Reddick ILB NC. Either Lennon or Bradley won’t be back. Need a stud.
    Round 5- M. Goodman DE Clemson. Depth behind Dockett.
    Round 6– P. Thomas SS Fresno State. Could learn from Sanders and Johnson who both need to be resigned if last year for Adub.

  19. By kevin on Dec 11, 2012 | Reply

    For those bashing the organization , you have no clue what you are talking about the past does not speak for itself. Our downfall is the QB and LT RT CENTER and lack of a good running back. I would cut ties with Skelton and Lindley. Why you know if a rookie has it or not look at Luck and RG3 and even Wilson, which next year Wilson will not make it will be like Cam Newton.But Luck and RC3 ,came in and played and are playing very good. Look at the Colts. So hope we get lucky its luck of the draw. I say keep Kolb if we do find a quality QB he can be 2nd.
    Go Cardinals love’em just in a huge funk right now.

  20. By georgiebird on Dec 11, 2012 | Reply

    Adrian Wilson should never been given a new contract. He was finished a few years ago. Now, don’t get me wrong, he’s a nice guy and a loyal Cardinals’ player. But once teams realized he couldn’t defend against the pass, he should have been replaced. AW was never a smart player but his big time “hits” have always covered up for the bad.
    Dockett has been totally misused by the Cardinals in the 3-4. DD is a 4-3 tackle and an excellent one. Dockett will be grabbed very quickly by some 4-3 team like the Giants and will go on to a couple of SBs- Antrel Rolle will make sure DD comes to NY. If the Giants could take two “Dogs” like OJ Anderson and Rolle and transform them into SB stars, then DD will be even better.
    To the Cardinals’ defense, teams like the Giants have their house in order and can be very precise in “tweaking” their team. On the other hand, the Cardinals’ house is in shambles and “tweaking” is no longer an option. Hoyer??

  21. By john the draft guy on Dec 11, 2012 | Reply

    Kevin and supporters;

    I get it. You can see a couple of spots needed to be filled and we are contending. Whiz did some solid things here and should be appreciated for the good he has done.

    With that being said, I am NOT confident that Coach Whiz, Graves and company will do the right thing after looking at their past.

    Since 2007, the cards have drafted Brandon Keith (2009) in the 7th round and Herman Johnson (2010) in the 5th round. The cards are considered one of the worse Offensive lines. What was Whiz and Company thinking.? Now, in 2012, he finally drafts a couple guys who have to play as rookies.

    In 2009, Warner signed his last contract for 2 years. Knowing this full well, the cardinals have passed on 4 years of trying to draft a QB. (picking QBs in the 5th and 6th is not trying to find a starter). Who did Whiz think would run this offense? To be fair, he did try to trade for Kolb in 2011. But quickly realized he wasn’t the guy.

    How do we know this? He tried to sign Peyton for one. He named Skelton the starter for two.

    Knowing he had no QB entering 2012, he chose to pass on trading up for a QB in Tannehill and passed on drafting Weeden, Wilson or Foles. 4 starters.

    I’m sorry but this is the bed you made Coach. I like you but way too many blunders in player personnel.

    The next coach coming in will have two young tackles and a Vet coming back from injury. He will have a good defense to build around. And he will be able to work with a new front office to find the QB best for his system. (I love Landry Jones but he would not fit in a Shanahan offense for instance) So, starting new, we find the right QB for the right system and start moving forward.

    Sorry Coach Whiz, Graves and company. It is time to part ways.

  22. By john the draft guy on Dec 11, 2012 | Reply

    Sorry Keith was drafted in 2008 and Johnson 2009. There was 3 years of no offensive lineman drafted.

  23. By jocards on Dec 11, 2012 | Reply

    So did anybody notice what happened with Brandon Jacobs in S.F.? And he didn’t openly disregard an on field directive from Jim Harbaugh…..Hmmmm.

  24. By gocards on Dec 11, 2012 | Reply

    The problem with Cardinals quarterbacks has been they have been fascinated by “projects” who are big and have strong arms. Derek Anderson, Skelton, and Lindley all fit this profile and all of them have the exact same weakness that kept them from being productive — accuracy!

    None of them can hit their marks, which is what made Warner so great. Kolb doesn’t have the arm the others do, but he is far more accurate. However, Kolb is made of glass and is not the answer.

    It seems as if the organization needs to rid themselves of all three QBs in the offseason and start over.

    As for Whiz, he should be given another crack due to the injuries he’s had to deal with this year, but he should not be back w/out changes. Several things have become quite clear:

    1) Russ Grimm cannot coach offensive linemen and he needs to go. The line play hasn’t improved under him at all.
    2) Whiz isn’t a developer of QBs. He needs to resign himself that he doesn’t have this skill and look to finally bring in someone who can coach a QB.
    3) Miller isn’t ready to be an OC. If our QBs are inexperienced, then why hasn’t the offensive game plan been altered to give our QBs some help? Where are the quick, easy reads for these guys?

    Have you seen the type of routes the Redskin receivers are running for RGIII? They are all simple outs, slants, and drag routes. The Redskins have designed game plans and plays which help to keep the routes simple and make Griffin’s reads easier.

    Now don’t get me wrong, as I know RGIII is a rare talent, but we have to give credit to the Shanahan’s for making his transition easier by giving him easier reads and forcing him to think less.

    Kurt Warner was on the radio lamenting about how teams are not doing what is necessary to make things easier for their QBs and I completely agree. Our QBs are terrible, but so are the plays that we are running for them.

    So where does that leave us with our QB situation? We’ll have to sign a FA like Smith, Vick, or Hassleback to take over while we draft the proper QB of the future and groom him with the proper coaching.

    Finally, as for Wilson and Dockett, I am hoping to see A-Dub finish out his career here and I think he very well may do that. Dockett is another story. He is mis-cast in this defense and if we stay with the 3-4, then we should look to move him out while he does have some good value.

    However, none of this can be settled until after the season when we see if Whiz is back and if Horton leaves for a HC position somewhere else.

  25. By Dynosoar on Dec 11, 2012 | Reply

    For those using the name(s) “Whiz-n-punt”, Whizpunt” and other similar combinations, please ponder this. Against NYJ we were 0-15 on third down conversions. If we can’t get a single third down conversion in an entire game, why would we try for a fourth down conversion?

    I’ve actually seen quite a few fourth down conversion attempts this year. Some worked, most did not. An effective offense will keep the punter off the field, not the coach’s preferences.

    Believe me, the coach’s preferences are to keep the punter off the field as well, that means scoring and that means job security.

    Other than a few coaches who can see outside the box and realize if I’m averaging just 3.5 yards per play over three plays, statistically I will have more fourth down conversions than turnover on downs, almost all coaches at the college and NFL level punt on fourth down.

    Billicek and Chip Kelly are exceptions and I think NE does it sometimes not because they think they can, but to say to their opponents, you can’t stop us and we’re going to prove it, not with a fake punt, but with a regular play. That’s a confidence booster to any offense (unless, they continually fall short and turn the ball over on downs.)

    Please, disagree with Coach Whizenhunt all you want, but the silly nicknames that wouldn’t even be considered if the offensive line protected our QB and opened more holes for the RB’s, if the WR’s held onto the ball, if the QB had >60% completion, if the WR’s held onto the ball, if the play calling were different, if…

    If we converted third downs, Coach wouldn’t even have to consider punting.

    I feel a lot of cheer at the moment, but it may just be the box I’m standing on. Thanks for listening.

  26. By Dynosoar on Dec 11, 2012 | Reply

    D

    Not sure if he’ll skip his senior year or not, but I want Lacey from Alabama as a running back on our team. I know, as a Tennessee fan I’m against all things Florida and Alabama, but he won’t be playing for them then, so I want to see him change one shade of crimson for another.

    The followng year I like Lane from Tennessee. The two of them would free up Fitgzgerald, Roberts and Floyd like no other duo I can think of.

    If Beanie and Williams had not had the injuries they’d had, and no I don’t believe they’re bad people because of football injuries, nor do I think they’re made of glass, I just know they’ve been injured despite they’re wishes and plans, so we move on. And D, the last sentence was not directed at you or really anyone, it’s just easy to get into that mindset and I try to avoid it as best I can.

  27. By clssylssy on Dec 11, 2012 | Reply

    As long as you are dumping people…dump Kolb too. He just can’t stay healthy and has only played maybe a total of seven games the entire time he has been are 67million dollar man!… Could by a whole new 0-line,QB and RB for his salary!

  28. By jeffgollin on Dec 11, 2012 | Reply

    The defense doesn’t need a roster overhaul. (it could use more of a morale boost and attitude tweaking).

    On the other side of the ball, the offense needs a total overhaul (& that includes the position coaches).

    I think a lot of our defensive struggles vs. GB involved too many players trying to be hero’s and failing to execute their own specific assignments. When you can’t trust the guys next to you to be where they’re supposed to be and do what they’re supposed to, everything collapses like dominos.

  29. By GenuineArizona on Dec 11, 2012 | Reply

    It’s interesting how people don’t recall the many times Dockett has been nothing but a distraction. He didn’t want to go to a 3-4 defense, when Boldin was throwing his tantrum about this contract, Dockett was right over there with him. Now that he “got paid”, he hasn’t produced like he once did, he needs to be traded before he become more of a cancer and it spreads. Wilson is an aging star and diminishing, he’s constantly caught out of position, burn on deep plays, trade him before he also because a distraction. We can bring in new talent or better picks in the draft. Oh and cut Bradley, his salary can to go Washington. Our D only got better when we gave Acho/Schonfield and other young players a chance.

  30. By "Whiz n Punt-goodbye" on Dec 11, 2012 | Reply

    Dynosour-Whiz n punt has nothing to do with going for it on 4th down. Its the horrible predictible play calling. 3 piss poor plays and a punt. Get over it. No one is going to listen to anything you have to say as it usually is bordering on babble! And stop rambling on with your posts-they are boring.

  31. By Zach on Dec 11, 2012 | Reply

    If Adub leaves that would be a shame, same with Dockett. Not sure why all the Adub hate, but the guy is still a top 10 SS in the NFL and is a part of this teams history.

    Dockett is still a quality DE and I hope he stays as well. Carter would be ok starting in his place, but that would be a downgrade. DDt needs to to calm his emotions and be a team player.

    Obviously all these guys are pissed right now, as are the fans. 4-9 is terrible and that Seattle game was straight embarrassing. But, everyone needs to calm down.

    2013 – Keep Kolb, but draft a QB in rounds 1-2. Draft a G, a RB, and SILB. Keep our Defense in tact. We need a new QB in case Kolb can not play, that is our focus. Cutting Kolb would be amazingly stupid (unless he physically can not play due to his rib injury), he is our best QB option by far. But, still draft a young talented QB. Fix QB and RB, and the offense is suddenly good.

    O line is improving, but upgrade needed in the interior (RG)

  32. By Kevin S on Dec 11, 2012 | Reply

    Jocards —

    I wondered about that too. Thing is, you can make that decision when you’re winning more easily than when you’re in a 9-game losing streak. If we were the Patriots or 49ers, I think you may be right that Dockett would’ve been suspended or even served his walking papers if he ignored a coach’s directive. On the other hand, if we were on the Patriots or 49ers I am confident that Dockett would not have ignored the directive to begin with. In the middle of a losing streak, and frustrated with letting up only 7 points and in a situation where it looked like we were going to lose yet again, Dockett let his individual feelings about giving up another TD take precedence over the good of the team. That doesn’t happen when you’re 8-4; it happens when you’re 4-8.

  33. By MIKE HADZINSKI C.M. PUNK on Dec 11, 2012 | Reply

    Season would not have been like this if we did not draft floyd over decastro plain and simple O-line was weak link going into season whoever made the call to draft floyd should be FIRED (GRAVES) OR TRADED (FITZ)…..SO DARREN WHICH ONE WAS IT??????

  34. By Judy on Dec 11, 2012 | Reply

    Darnell Dockett has every right to be upset over what happened in NY.He wants to win,not give the other team more points.To bench him ,and fine him $ 200,000 is just stupid. If i were rich enough i would pay the darn fine for him. I hope both he and A-Dub are still here next year.I would much rather see Grimm,McNaulty and Miller go than them,I am still on the fense about Wiz,but if it came down to a choice i would probably keep DD,and A-Dub over him too,

  35. By Andy Kw on Dec 11, 2012 | Reply

    I think Wilson would be better if he transitioned to Cornerback because his height is perfect for the job. I think William Gay needs to be replaced with our former 1st round pick Dominique-Rodgers Cromartie since he is going to be a free agent from Philadelphia. William Gay plays terribly against the Rams and I don’t think Greg Toler or Jamell Fleming is ready for the job. DRC was good before he left and I feel 2 first round CBs would prove a huge threat in the NFL. Patrick Peterson and Dominique Rodgers Cromartie, it gives me the chills just thinking about it.

  36. By Dynosoar on Dec 11, 2012 | Reply

    clssylssy,

    I agree, the last two years have been hard for the league. I’m against the fines after the fact (after reviews), however, I remember a game where a certain defnsive player from a team I’ll arbitrarily name as Pittsburgh took two recievers out of the game. While I don’t like fines, I certainly don’t like that kind of play.

    It’s a game, not combat.

    Did darnell really get fined $200K. Wow, I haven’t even grossed that much since our Super Bowl run. Really? $200K. I’d probably ask to be benched for a game or two and he still played. Good jod Darnell. Well played. (Yes, pun intended.)

    Too many injuries. I trust Michael Bidwell will take that into account. This offseason will be interesting to watch. Not every team can make the playoffs every year, but I’d certainly like ours to be healthy enough to do so more than we have. Lots more.

  37. By Eric G on Dec 11, 2012 | Reply

    Darren, what happened to Bartel? Can’t they pick him up? I’m not saying he’s the answer by any means, but he was decent and should be an improvement over both QBs.

  38. By jocards on Dec 11, 2012 | Reply

    Kevin S –

    I understand what you are saying and I respect your opinion but in my view an organization can never allow a player to disregard a directive from the head coach…..it just is not the way winning organizations are run period. Are we saying that one must listen to the head coach only when the team is winning but not when they are losing? Of course not. I know there is a lot that goes into the equation but I truly believe that situations like this are one of the reasons that the Cardinals are largely viewed as being a second class organization. I think this is one reason why we have so much difficulty attracting top free agents, etc…There appears to be no leadership from the top, no foundation from which to sustain any success. Like it or not Whisenhunt is the head coach and believe me I have issues with that but to tacitly condone (by merely leveling a fine) the players deciding for themselves whether or not they’ll go along with direction from the sideline is a recipe for disaster and will lead to nothing but more discord and more losing on and on…Jim Harbaugh just suspended Brandon Jacobs for the rest of the season for griping about his playing time through social media…..What do you think would happen if one of his players ignored one of his directives? I realize that the Cardinals are not a winning organization but they never will be until they start operating like one from the top down.

  39. By cardsalltheway on Dec 11, 2012 | Reply

    If there were a circus freak show for audience members to hear/listen rather than see/watch the Wolf ‘n’ Whiz show would sell out across the country.

  40. By Corgon on Dec 11, 2012 | Reply

    Please Cards, don’t let them go. they are the heart of the D.

  41. By Dynosoar on Dec 11, 2012 | Reply

    “Whiz n Punt-goodbye”,

    Guess I asked for that one. Sorry, not trying to offend, just think there are solutions to punting. Better play calling / QB accuracy / receivers holding the ball / other variables.

    We need to convert third downs more and go for it on fourth and short. Statistically we convert more than not. More conversions equal more points.

    Is my babbling under control? If not, call me Brooke.

  42. By johnnybluenose on Dec 11, 2012 | Reply

    darren, what’s this about calais campbell throwing the jacket of a cardinals’ fan in the garbage at the seattle game? doesn’t sound good.

  43. By jocards on Dec 11, 2012 | Reply

    @ Dynosoar –

    I’m glad that you don’t seem apt to take the posts from others personally. I am of the belief that given the opportunity by online avenues such as this site to communicate anonymously and therefore completely without consequence some folks decide to forget how to properly behave as a member of society. Good for you and keep posting.

  44. By Andy Kw on Dec 11, 2012 | Reply

    There are easy changes to be made to this team going into 2013 season:
    1.)Coach Changes:
    -Keep HC Ken Whisenhunt because you will not find any coach better suited to this organization’s system.
    -Fire OC Mike Miller and WR Coach Frank Reich. Our entire offense is struggling and Mike Miller has done a bad job in his part as offensive coordinator. Frank Reich has done a terrible job to our Wide Receivers. What happened to the explosiveness of our Wide Receivers and Fitzgerald being a huge threat??????
    -Move John McNulty back to Wide Receivers coach and find a new QB Coach ASAP. Bring back Chris Miller at QB coach or find a Offensive Coach from New England to teach our QBs the proper way to play.
    -Hire Cam Cameron as our Offensive Coordinator because he came from the AFC North Ravens and he has the offensive system this team has been dearly looking for. This Coach is the BEST fit for our Offensive Coordinator Job and no one else is.
    -Fire DL Coach Ron Aiken. Our Defensive Line has not been doing so great stopping the run in the DL. Dockett, Campbell, and Williams need a new change in coach. We have been below par for the past 3-4 seasons and I think this team needs a new coach that teaches better techniques that can excel our DL.

    2.) Player Changes:
    -Cuts that need to be made: QB Ryan Lindley, OT D’Anthony Batiste, LB Stewart Bradley (If Ryan Williams is not healthy by next season, he needs to get cut)
    -Players that need to be demoted: SS Adrian Wilson, CB William Gay. Adrian Wilson has struggled in preseason and has struggled in the 2012 season. I see that age has played a toll on his skills and it is time for a new era. William Gay has struggled against really fast Wide Receivers and I see him as a valuable backup but his struggles proved really costly against St.Louis and Miami.
    -Releases that should follow through: LB Quentin Groves, G Rich Ohrnberger, LB Zach Nash, T Pat McQuistan, DE Ronald Talley, RB Alfonso Smith, TE Kory Sperry
    -Resign S Rashad Johnson, CB Michael Adams, DE Vonnie Holliday, S James Sanders, DE Nick Eason, LaRod Stephens Howling, LB Paris Lenon and RB Beanie Wells.
    -Trades: The Cardinals should trade G Senio Kelemete for future NFL picks. He was ranked high but was drafted low so I see decent trade value in him.
    -Sign T Jeff Otah or T Bryant McKinnie (if he is not resigned by Baltimore) to backup our tackles. Sign Dominique Rodgers Cromartie back since his contract isn’t really restructured yet. He was great before he left and I think we will establish a huge CB threat with Patrick Peterson and DRC being one of the best. Keep QB Brian Hoyer if he doesn’t struggle. Hoyer and Skelton should battle it out to see who would be the 3rd backup QB. We need to find a reliable backup QB in free agency such as if Charlie Batch was not resigned or we could sign Jason Campbell when he is released by the Bears. I want Kolb to be our starting QB because he has done so well before he got injured. He definitely deserves “another” shot.

    3.) Draft Necessities: The Arizona Cardinals need QB, RB, LB, S
    -The First Round should go to a QB. If this team wants to build up a long tenured QB, we need to be ready for the future and not get to this position at 4-9 any longer. I want this team to do its best in the rest of the games but this team really needs the presence of Matt Barkley to amp up this team. Losing the rest of the games are bad but this team just isn’t prepared to take on the teams ahead. We need a #1 QB now or else we will never find one. Kolb should be in competition between Matt Barkley and Kevin Kolb. If we get Barkley, Kolb would be in for a huge competition. If “Barkley” does win, Kolb will get cut which I do not like.
    -The Second Round should go to a RB. Let me give you the reason why, the Cardinals organization has given the 2nd Round Ryan Williams a chance for 2 years and he has continued to get injured and has continued to be a non factor for this team. We need a RB that has good control of the ball, healthy, decent height around 5-10 to 5-11 range, and breakout speed. Beanie Wells lacks speed and versatility and Ryan Williams lacks health and control of the ball.
    -The Third Round should go to a Linebacker. We already established Daryl Washington, Sam Acho, and O’Brien Schofield as our 3 main starting Linebackers. Paris Lenon is aging and he won’t be around for long. We need a Linebacker that is a good tackler, racked up a lot of sacks in College, and has the components of players like Aldon Smith that plays like a Pro Bowler. We lack pass rushers and the 2013 year might be the year we find one.
    -The Fourth Round should go to a Safety. I expect Rashad Johnson to be in competition with who ever is at Strong Safety to fight for the starting job. Adrian Wilson is aging and we need someone to replace him. Will it be Rashad Johnson or a 4th round pick. We need one that is at least 6-2, fast, jumps high, and is consistent constantly and always.
    -5th Round: Wide Receiver
    -6th Round: Defensive Tackle
    -7th Round: Linebacker

    (Darnell Dockett might be aging but he is key to our Defensive Line)

  45. By cobra on Dec 11, 2012 | Reply

    cardsalltheway:

    re: circus freak show:

    You could be your own fan club. You see/watch, hear/listen, thinking so hard, but nothings happening.

  46. By NJAzCardsFan on Dec 11, 2012 | Reply

    The NFL is all about winning…… Owners don’t seem to care until the seat are empty…..

    Getting rid of A-Dub and Dockett would typifiy the management of the Cards since I started following them in the 60’s….. Yeah, get rid of players with a desire to win, that will really help a team that is sinking faster than the Titanic. Getting rid of players with a winning mentality, especially of defense which has kept this team from being 1-11 this year, is just plain stupid.. I agree with Dockett. Don’t roll over and let them score. How many times in the last few years have the Cards defense made a goal line stand or blocked a field goal. Whiz and Miller had to be kidding themselves thinking that Lindlely was suddenly going to improve in the last minute and drive down the field to score….??? Especially after going 0-15 on 3rd down conversions. I seriously doubt if the offense could score if they all got on the team bus and drove on it to the other end of the field…..

    The Cards management should apologize to the team and rescind Dockett’s fine and Dockett should apologize to the Coaches. Let it end there……

    Getting rid of Dockett and A-Dub would be the beginning of the end of a good defnsive team…… Management would be sending a message to the fans that winning is not a priority anymore…..
    .

  47. By Darren Urban on Dec 11, 2012 | Reply

    johnnyblue —

    RE: Campbell

    Link? I don’t think that happened.

  48. By Ruben Ortega on Dec 11, 2012 | Reply

    I’m a Huge Cards fan.
    The saying if ain”t broke, don’t fix it”
    This defense can play with any team in the NFL. They are really talented. They have proved it.
    It’s the offense that has issues. Keep Adub, keep Docket keep this defense intact, they will only be better.
    So, use all your draft picks on a 1st or 2nd round QB to come in and learn behind Kolb, and the next few picks fixing the oline by draft or free agency. Then the QB, Running backs, Tightends and Receivers will be more effective.
    Better play calling is definite must also.

  49. By iammattyoung on Dec 11, 2012 | Reply

    These are dark days for the Cardinals, which is saying a lot considering how dark they’ve been in the past. So much of this is hauntingly like “the Old Days”: can’t find a QB, O-line in shambles, no running game, losing streaks, hometown favorite players getting fed up and thinking about jetting (see: Eric Swann, Aenas Williams).

    Yet, I don’t think our problems might end up being solved more easily than we think. First, there is a good chance that some halfway decent QBs will become available. Matt Hasselbeck and Matt Flynn are awfully pricey backups, and Ryan Fitzpatrick will be too if Buffalo drafts a QB. Kolb was fine, but you need consistency at the position, and he’s never been able to stay on the field for more than a handful of games at a time. Second, the O-line might not be such a tough fix. Nate Potter has shown some real ability out there at LT, and Bobby Massie has really come along. And if we wanted to upgrade, there are some great tackles available. In my mind, the big issue are the guards, who seem to fall over more than actually throw blocks. Levi will be coming back next year, and run blocking has always been his strong suit, which suggests that he could slide in at one of the guard positions. Heck, we could draft Chance Warmack out of Alabama and have a pretty solid line of Potter, Brown, Sendlein, Warmack, Massie (or #1 drafted LT, Brown, Sendlein, Snyder, Massie). With Massie and Potter getting a full offseason to develop, and with Warmack and Brown plowing open running lanes, Beanie and Ryan Williams immediately become a factor. Third, I think the Schofield experiment is over. He’s got talent, but can’t stay healthy. I think we should use our draft pick (which will be somewhere between 3 and 7) on a pass rushing OLB like Jarvis Jones or convert Bjoern Werner (this kid is a FREAK).

    These small moves immediately make this team better. Our #1 need is a QB who is at least as good as Kolb, and can stay on the field. Is that so hard to find?

  50. By cobra on Dec 11, 2012 | Reply

    Dyno:

    Hang in there. Your comments are probably the most positive on this site. It has gone from bad to really bad. It’s really hard to see how disrespectful people are for players when they are actually doing their best with their talent.

  51. By Mark on Dec 11, 2012 | Reply

    Darren,Do You See The Consecutive Games Sellout Streak At Home End This Sunday At Home Against The Lion’s?

  52. By Dynosoar on Dec 11, 2012 | Reply

    Jocards,

    Personaly? Nah, we’re all friends here and sometimes friends don’t see eye to eye (especialy when one is as short as I am). I’ll still say what I think and apreciate others doing the same. I liked your observations on civility and yes, I’ll probably still be posting. (Hey! I’m posting right now.)

    As to rambling, I’ll quote Mark Twain, “iI I had had more time, I would have written a shorter letter.”

    It’s all good.

    Above you made a comment I have to aplaud, that until we act like a worldclass organization we won’t be one. Spot on.

    One of these days I’m going to be in Phoenix for a playoff game and ask all my friends here to join me at some restraunt and we won’t be so anonymous anymore. That’ll be a grand fine time. Although, if I wait for the playoffs…

  53. By Darren Urban on Dec 11, 2012 | Reply

    Mark —

    RE: Sellouts

    Don’t know. We’ll find out Thursday. If I had to guess, I still think they get the last two (the Bears will for sure).

  54. By cardsalltheway on Dec 11, 2012 | Reply

    Congratulations go out to our HC Ken W. for making it to the Top-of-the List of HC’s to be fired!!!
    “Warming Seat: Ken Whisenhunt earns his spot”
    http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000109820/article/atl-warming-seat-ken-whisenhunt-earns-his-spot
    “1. Ken Whisenhunt, Arizona Cardinals
    (Last week: No. 3)
    You know the feeling when you wake up from a nightmare and that wave of relief washes over you when you realize the maintenance guy from the carnival hasn’t murdered your entire family? Whiz woke up and still lost 58-0. The axe-wielding carny might be a better fate than finishing this season.”

  55. By Patrick on Dec 11, 2012 | Reply

    Adrian Wilson and Darnell Dockett are both big time leaders. Adrian Wilson can still play. They are both beasts! Hang in there guys, change is coming and things will get better with the next coaching staff.

  56. By cardsalltheway on Dec 11, 2012 | Reply

    Mark,
    “Do You See The Consecutive Games Sellout Streak At Home End This Sunday At Home Against The Lion’s?”

    Don’t worry Mark, the middle section(Club Level) will be practically empty/no-shows. And I’d expect other sections to be the same.

  57. By john the draft guy on Dec 11, 2012 | Reply

    To all of you who think Kolb is the answer next year;

    The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

    Kevin Kolb in 2010 for the Eagles;
    Played one game got injured missed two games. Came back and played 4 games , got injured and Vick took over.

    Kolb in 2011
    Started the first 7 games, got injured. sat out 4 games. Came back and played in one game and one series. Got hurt. Missed the rest of the season

    Kolb 2012;
    Played so poorly in preseason, lost his job to John Skelton. Came in in game one. He played the next 5 games before being injured with what seems to be a season ending injury

    2013;
    Kolb supporters want the coaches to believe he is the guy and to go with him.
    No, of course he wont get injured and miss half the season.

    Folks, we dont have a QB on this roster. It just cant be any clearer.

    Whiz can’t win with these guys. With a good QB, I believe he can. Problem is, he picked these guys. These 3 guys are the ones he chose to go to battle with. That crucial mistake for 3 straight years is the reason he will lose his job.

  58. By johnnybluenose on Dec 11, 2012 | Reply

    darren, re CAMPBELL. check out the comments to weinfuss’ story about christmas with calais.

  59. By DLine Fan on Dec 11, 2012 | Reply

    To see Dockett go would be extremely sad…I LOVE LOVE LOVE to see him play, he’s passionate, viciously fast and a powerhouse when he comes off the line. Im sad just thinking that its a possibility of not seeing him in Cardinal Red. I love that number 90!

  60. By BIG RED on Dec 11, 2012 | Reply

    @andyaw to must fantasy with KK. That guy just breaks when he puts on his uniform. If cards are getting rid of Skelton and Lindley they should also get rid of Kolb also.

  61. By Chuck 1 on Dec 11, 2012 | Reply

    iammattyoung

    You just reminded me of another draft fiasco: Schofield, who had a serious knee injury, but was drafted by Graves, Keim and/or Whiz.
    The draft/FA incompetence over the last several years amazes me.

  62. By Bay Area Bad Boy on Dec 11, 2012 | Reply

    Keep Dockett, Keep Wilson. Get rid of Whiz and the rest of his staff.
    I was listening to Whiz at the press conference. He said the loss wasn’t for lack of effort. lol. Then that means they tried as hard as they could and they are still pathetic. Great coaching job you have done. I’ve said it many times. Whiz is average at best as a coach. The OC is predictable. The O-line coach. oops we don’t have one. And Ray Horton can’t stop the run or pass for that matter. New direction should be mandatory. Please fire this staff. How many more excuses do you need. 9 losses in a row and all Bidwell can say is he will not make an emotional decision. GET EMOTIONAL !!!!. The time has come. The time is now.

  63. By Credit Card on Dec 11, 2012 | Reply

    Card Fans:

    Let us keep in mind, that all the players, coaches, and support staff are real people with real families with real day to day problems they need to deal with — just like you and me. I’m positive the players, coaches, and staff didn’t enter into the season hoping for disasterous season.

    Changes will come, some logical and some that will appear without any insight. Nevertheless, the franchise will try to do their best to turn things around in the next coming season.

    Happy holidays to all. As for the Cards — at least my wife is happy, I now have time to do chores that I have put off. All really is well.

    Credit Card

  64. By Furious Styles on Dec 11, 2012 | Reply

    Firing Coach Whisenhunt would be a mistake. People forget so quickly that this team was 4-0 at one time and had won 11 of the last 13 games. Now, largely because of injuries, we have hit a very tough losing streak. Can someone name another team that could lose its starting QB, LT, C, LG, RB, and TE and still be competitive? Were not talking about losing these players for a game or two people, were talking multiple games, and in some cases, for the entire season. Remember the Ryan Williams and Beanie Wells combo we were waiting for? Never really happened because of injury. How about Todd Heap opening up big plays for us because of his underneath presence…..never happened because of injury. When Kolb finally was playing consistent, he gets hurt too. Levi Brown, out for the year. Daryn Colledge missed some games, and now Lyle Sendlein is done for the year. Guys, even our backups for these guys are going down with significant injuries! Look every team has injuries, but not all at once, and not all on one side of the ball! Now someone does need to be held accountable for some of the personnel decisions (especially at quarterback) but Coach Whis is a very solid coach. Firing him would be a knee jerk reaction and a mistake.

  65. By ken on Dec 11, 2012 | Reply

    please just forfeit the rest of the games, so we dont have hear everyone make fun of them

    Fitzgereld needs to be tradsed to anyone so he can play like he was built for; not trying to help the shit heads that pose as QBs from wallmart, Cardinals are pathetic

  66. By canadian redbird on Dec 11, 2012 | Reply

    Re: Defence Giving Up

    NOpe, according to our faithful leader Captain Whiz, it was poor gap control and technique vs. lack of effort. Each week, his game recaps frustrate the Cardinal faithful.. For an honest point of view from a media perspective, check out the KTAR website podcast on Monday, Dec. 10th from Burns & Gambo. They call as it is; its worth the listen.

  67. By Eazy E on Dec 12, 2012 | Reply

    WTH? I might use Braylon’s vernacular when it comes to this organization. It ain’t our damn defense messing up, their elite over there. It’s the offense and 2 positions in particular and we all know which ones. QB and O-line is awful and we have to go all out in the offseason at both positions. Also, Darren how in the world can you mind getting Vince when we got Hoyer which is a joke???

  68. By philly cards 1994- on Dec 12, 2012 | Reply

    I want to know why we had 50$million in cap space after boldin and warner left. And why we have nothing to show for it.that was summer 2011 I think.
    Then we unexplicably allowed wiz to stay after a 5-11 season.
    At that point. You had enough evidence to fire him on his overall performance there. Instead he was going in to year 2 of a 4 yr extention.

    What was graves doing during this time? He was ridding the team of whiz conflicts no offers to top players.

    We love pp but he shouldn’t be. He’s a replacement for mcfaadden and drc failures.and you repeat that senario across the depth chart and your going backwards on paper before you play the game.

    Kerry rhodes cost us picks because of customer service issues with antrell(also first rd pk). Backwards.and he was lost to injury to much for that to be close to positive.

    Failed evaluation of gerard hayes.big mistake he cost us a lot of yards and tds.go look.

    When the saints had cap problens and lost that all pro 350lb guard he should have been a card. Instead we got adam snyder?and now the line is packed with underperforming longterm deals.

    The line not being able to handle the blitz. Whiz not being able or willing to scheme for the blitz of his only capable quaterback cost us a chance this year.

    Floyd was like buying new rims for a car with no engine.

    Skelton doesn’t get blitzed because he’s inaccurate. So they are able to work in the younger linemen when kolb goes down.

    That’s were coaching comes in that’s not his strength,just ask the steelers.if any of these guys where good enough they’d still be in pittsburg.

    Steve breaston.is better than doucet and roberts combined. another issue where graves gets the guy out to placate whiz.

    You lose depth talent and cap space and games.while your selling out every week.its confusing to a gm. You have to please everyone and keep the lights on.I feel for graves he’s not the dumb guy

  69. By ibleedred on Dec 12, 2012 | Reply

    Fire: Whiz and Graves they made this mess.

    Cut: All QBs on roster, Beanie & Williams

    Revamp O-Line and obviously QB and RB.

    =====

    Untouchables: Fitz, PP, Washington, Campbell

    Only trade Wilson and Dockett if new GM gets a deal that knocks his socks off. Otherwise these guys are class acts. They need to be treated as such!

    Oh and Cards D, please ensure Whiz and Graves get fired by going 4-12, their run on the post Kurt, Fitz, Boldin, & Breaston gravytrain era is over.

  70. By D on Dec 12, 2012 | Reply

    I think one thing for M. Bidwell to consider besides a GM change, is to bring in a consultant who is respected and know’s talent, like a M. Shottenheimer. He could evualate the talent or needs on this roster to improve it.

  71. By D on Dec 12, 2012 | Reply

    per FootballFocus power rankings:

    32. Arizona Cardinals

    “It can’t get much worse than being humiliated by divisional rivals. Heads should roll for that, and not just in the coaching department. They’ve done a horrible job finding talent in recent years.”

    Simple, if Whiz doesnt’ want to fire Grimm and Miller, M. Bidwell will have to fire all 3 and bring back Todd Haley, then promote Keim to GM (doubt he would bring in a big name GM since they like to stay within the org in the front office)

  72. By chris B on Dec 12, 2012 | Reply

    Dockett hasn’t been the same since 2008. If he goes, fine. If not, fine. Wilson is still playing well and better in coverage than people think. I’d say he stays.

    If I’m Bidwill, I’d give Whiz one more shot. I would heavily emphasize the QB position above all else and let him address it his way one more time. He will then sink or swim with that decision. I would do this because I can see all the facts:

    Fact 1- Warner retired 1 year before his deal was up. He was signed to play 2010.

    Fact 2- DA was brought in to back up the franchise QB in Leinart (a Green pick, BTW). Leinart decided to quit. DA was never meant to be a starter. Had you told Whiz Warner would retire and Leinart would quit, the 2010 QB search would have gone differently. Including Max Hall, but I’ll put that one on Whiz.

    Fact 3- After 2010 debacle, the organization HAD to go for a QB. The options in the 2011 draft were Gabbert, Locker, Ponder (1st round). Dalton went in the second and it’s debatable if he was worth a first round pick at #5 overall. We don’t know what the Bengals would have wanted for the Cards to trade up in the second for him. We can debate on cost, but of course I’d rather have Dalton than Skelton.

    Fact 4- The 2010 FA’s available were Matt Moore or Tarvaris Jackson. Yes, these were the best available.

    Fact 5- QB’s available for trade: Jason Campbell, Kyle Orton, Kevin Kolb, McNabb, Carson Palmer. Hard to argue with those choices. Kolb was the one who played the best and had the most upside.

    Fact 6- Kolb got hurt in 2011 and Skelton did his best Tebow impression and we won games. All of them close games. Skelton was not a good QB, but since winning is what matters most, most fans wanted Skelton to start. They failed to see that Skelton’s type of play would catch up with him eventually.

    Fact 7- Skelton and Kolb both sucked in the preseason. Whiz had to make a decision based on last year’s winning. It was literally choosing between the lesser evil.

    Fact 8- Kolb won games in relief. Kolb had firmly snatched the starting gig from Skelton. Kolb got hurt on a freak play. after doing his best Rocky impression the week in StL (9 sacks), this one was brutal. Now we all want Kolb back. We would not be talking about firing whiz because we would had beat Atl, NYJ, StL (here), Minn. That puts us at 8-5.

    Fact 9- Lindley was not picked to be a starter. Since Kolb got hurt, Whiz has had his b*lls in a vice because he doesn’t have any choice about who to play. The 2011 Bears were the same way. He had no way of knowing Skelton would play even worse in his 3rd year than he did in his 2nd. We are all learning through the fire.

    Fact 10- Despite the QB position, Whiz has drafted and develop quite a few players. Plenty of people say Whiz enjoyed Green’s drafting success. There are currently 2 players on the roster drafted by Green: Fitzgerald and Dockett.

    These are the facts. This isn’t fantasy football people. We can’t trade Fitz for 5 drafts picks like in Fantasy land. When players get hurt, the backup has to play and usually they aren’t as good. In fantasy land when Drew Brees goes down you can start Tony Romo. This is not this case in real life.

  73. By john the draft guy on Dec 12, 2012 | Reply

    philly cards;

    I agree Graves is not a dumb guy. It takes a certain kind of person to deal with ownership and then get what the coach wants.

    I heard Jerry Jones say,
    Jerry Jones the owner should have fired Jerry Jones the GM years ago. Knowing that, he still thinks he can correct the mistakes and win.

    Owners are tough to deal with. But I am sure the Bidwills had no intention of shelling out big money for an injured QB in Kolb. I am sure Mr Bidwill was not trumping decisions in the draft room or saying I must have Floyd.

    Graves is suppose to make those calls but seems to take a back seat to the coaches. This is where the problem lies.

    We will never get a strong willed GM who makes all the calls if he can’t deal with the owners. A weak GM will get pushed around by a coach who, as Darren pointed out, usually fails when taking on player personnel roles.

    Maybe we are just stuck. After 22 years of rooting for them, it seems that way. But what this team needs is a strong player personnel guy who is not part of the coaching staff. Yes, he needs to work hand in hand with what the coach is doing. But ultimately, he makes the call.

    I could even live with Whiz coming back if he is stripped of personnel duties. Truthfully, it has really come down to mistakes in the draft that has caused the mess we are in. And only solid drafts can get us out of it. It might take time, but that is the answer to long term success.

  74. By Louisville Card on Dec 12, 2012 | Reply

    @john the draft guy

    I agree with you that Kolb isn’t the answer that should keep the cards from drafting or going after another qb. I do think though he has shown enough to keep on the team as a backup next season if he will restructure his contract. If you only have to depend on him to get you through 4 or 5 games he’s a great option. As the last few season have shown teams need more than one decent qb on it.

  75. By Jahstone on Dec 12, 2012 | Reply

    The fact of the matter is Whiz lost his team in Seatttle so IMO he is done. We could have had a bad season, and he would have still been our coach, but the Skelton benching, Lindley mis-use, and the Dockett situation are the final straws. Look at how well SEA, SF, and now even the lowly Rams have done better with new coaches, great draft picks, and sensible f/a aquistions.

    Whiz cannot coach up QB’s period and Graves is a poor evaulator of talent.

  76. By john the draft guy on Dec 12, 2012 | Reply

    Chris B,

    I agree with most of what you said. But here is the issue.

    From 2008 thru 2011 drafts (4 drafts), the cards drafted 2 offensive lineman. One in the 7th round and one in the 5th round. Neither were good players.

    When Warner signed his contract in 2009 for 2 years, you had to think he was leaving soon. How valuable would it be to draft a guy to learn under Warner, then take over when he left. Should have been a priority.

    You see Leinart every day in practice. You should have known what you had before 2010.

    Warner left a year early after the beatings he took. (See point one.)

    Here is where I agree. 2010 was not a stellar year for drafting QBs. Anderson seemed like a good option. i dont think he was to back up Leinart though. Leinart was never in Whiz’s plans at that point.

    Here is where the problem was;
    In 2011, the Falcons offered the Browns a boat load of picks for the #6 pick. You had to believe the deal was offered to us at #5. Trading down would have given us picks to build an offensive line and we could have brought in Hasselback. or drafted Dalton at 26th. or both.

    2012, we would have had 2 first rounders and taken your QB then or taken botth Decastro and Zietler to be our starting guards putting a solid line, now in place.

    I said all these things at the time it was happening. It just made sense to me that a 5-11 team with no QB and no Oline should build up picks and rebuild.

    Patrick Peterson is a great player and a good pick. But it was the wrong move for the team. It was a move by a team that thought we were better and more solid than we were.

    But above all, not trading. sticking with Peterson. the cards had to pull the trigger for a QB in 2012. Missing there was a fatal move that will set us back a couple of years.

    All these moves by Whiz and Graves has us entering 2013 with no QB, , a need for a pair of guards. and a top 5 pick.

    Look at two teams in 2012.
    First, the Redskins. They needed a QB and gave up 3 #1s and a 2 to get RG3. now they are contiending and set for years to come.
    Now look at the Rams. They had a QB but need more talent. They traded down with the skins and landed a boat load of picks. They traded down with Dallas and got another pick. Then they has a solid draft. Give them 2013, and they will be a top team. Two smart teams.

  77. By louie on Dec 13, 2012 | Reply

    alot of b.s. Here tody, both of these guys bring leadership. if anything whiz should have already been fired.I have read

  78. By perry matherne on Dec 13, 2012 | Reply

    Hey coach wisenhunt,better leave dockett & wilson where they are.You have badass defense,it is very intact defense look very good all season,most def.coordinators would kill for ba defense like you have,i’m telling you.

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