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Free agents list and comp picks

Posted by Darren Urban on February 27, 2013 – 6:05 pm

Free agency is still a couple weeks away — March 12 for those who have forgotten — but for those who want to keep track of the Cardinals’ comings and goings, here is the page to do so. On it you can see the Cards’ own unrestricted and exclusive free agents going into the offseason. I ran into free agent safety Rashad Johnson today. He sounded upbeat about his status with the Cards but he wasn’t there to sign a new deal or anything. Those deals, I would think, will be deadline-driven probably. The Cards have talked to many of the agents for free agents, but again, I don’t think anything is about to pop.

The Alex Smith trade — or the reported trade that is going to happen — to the Chiefs will give the 49ers another draft pick this season. That, along with the anticipated compensatory picks the 49ers will get for losing free agents last offseason, will give San Francisco 15 draft picks for April. The day has been littered with speculation over what the Niners will do with all those picks. It’s too many to draft. No way 15 rookies make the team. So the Niners might as well trade some of them for players (Revis? Harvin?) or to move up and get a better pick or two or nab a rookie they really want.

Speaking of comp picks, I don’t expect the Cards to have any. They lost cornerback Richard Marshall to the Dolphins (to a pretty big contract) but signed free agents like William Gay, Adam Snyder and James Sanders. So that means the Cards will likely have only their seven picks — none in the seventh round and two in the sixth round. The official list of compensatory picks usually is released during the March owners’ meetings, which this year happen to be in Arizona.


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Posted in Blog | 45 Comments »


45 Responses to “Free agents list and comp picks”

  1. By Christo on Feb 27, 2013 | Reply

    Hope our FO realizes what they are up against in SF.

    There has been no playing around over there lately. Draft solid. Handle their FA’s properly. Acquire FA’s properly.

    Quite the contrast to what ours has been able to achieve.

  2. By andystandsup on Feb 27, 2013 | Reply

    The elephant in the room is Kolb and his contract. Combine is a common get-together for teams and agents yet no one has reported any contact.
    Heard any inkling, Darren?
    Should fans be worried, if not? (Cards have the luxury of time, but, in my eyes, should be issue number 1 of the pre-agency period.)

  3. By clssylssy on Feb 27, 2013 | Reply

    The 9ers reportedly will have five in the first three rounds and my bet is they grab a QB to backup or mentor behind Kaepernick. Harbaugh is a smart guy and I’m sure he’s already got his plays worked out and will be ready for the opening bell.
    This all makes the NFC West look like an even tougher nut to crack and the AFC West is shaping up to be more than Payton Manning’s Division. Can’t wait till March 12, April 15…and everything that comes after!

  4. By Dynosoar on Feb 27, 2013 | Reply

    Patrick said,

    “2nd round pick #34 overall is crazy for Alex Smith. Plus you have to pay him $7M a year. KC did us two favors this offseason by taking Reid and now Smith.”

    Touché!

    I know I’m grateful to K.C. for both of these.

  5. By Jerrytown on Feb 27, 2013 | Reply

    Hey Darren,

    I don’t know if this is possible, but I was thinking it would be cool to have some sort of “thumbs up/thumbs down” kind of thing for posts on here like they do on profootballtalk. I frequent this board and chime in when I feel strongly about something, and I use the reply feature quite a bit to respond directly to certain posts. I always find myself either loving or hating people’s posts, and I think it would be fun to be able to give feedback without actually responding. Plus it would be cool to see 50 people give you a thumbs up for a quality post, or 50 thumbs down for those ignorant people that keep saying “same old Cardinals” when we patiently go through the process of finding a good coach or don’t trade the farm for Alex Smith. What do you think?

  6. By Patrick on Feb 27, 2013 | Reply

    May want to clarify the line ” the cardinals have talked to many of the agents for free agents” you mean agents for our free agents.

  7. By ored on Feb 27, 2013 | Reply

    sign kolb to reduced amount,hoyer back up,and draft 3rd round,improve the rest of the team,just throwing more resources at journeymen and backups just takes away from other areas that we can improve on.the qb situation this year will be best served at developing a pick for the future and build the best team around what we have now.

  8. By Patrick on Feb 27, 2013 | Reply

    Sorry misread-I got it now. Thought the list was all free agents.

  9. By Darren Urban on Feb 27, 2013 | Reply

    Jerrytown –

    RE: thumbs up

    I will look into it.

  10. By djjackson81 on Feb 28, 2013 | Reply

    Draft a QB this year and next. I’m cool with Barkley and or Matt Scott this year. First and for most take the best player available please Keim at 7.
    Fisher,Warmack,Johnson, Milliner, Jones..

  11. By djjackson81 on Feb 28, 2013 | Reply

    Keim and Arians will need all four years to draft us a competing team with SF and Sea.

  12. By vegas4u2012. on Feb 28, 2013 | Reply

    -On Today sports weekly-Best wardrobe:Bruce Arians,(upset perennial front-runner.)I(As a paying fan.)Do not care what he’s wearing on his head..as long as he can win games!Also,could u amagin Alex Smith..w/the OL.that KOLB had the first 4 games?(I’M FROM VEGAS BABY!) He would of won 3 at best.Sorry i can’t take al your $ NOW!!!l

  13. By Dynosoar on Feb 28, 2013 | Reply

    Wow, thumbs up was fun. (Jerrytown, you got one for this suggestion.) I may have to try that on other boards, but this is really the only one I ever visit, so…

    That being said, I enjoy the conversation and even those who disagree with me and I with them, we have shared thoughts and information that has broadened my perspective. I’d say we all have respect for one another and this is why this site is such a good one, not to mention the efforts of our humble moderator who deserves a pat on the back. Well, unless that Pat is a Peterson, no one wants him on their back, least of all opponenets WR’s.

    So I hope a thumbing system would never replace the friendly discourse of us Cardinals Fans.

  14. By Austin on Feb 28, 2013 | Reply

    Darren,
    There hasn’t been much talk about Hoyer sticking around. Most of what I’ve heard of the QB’s here is Kolb/Skelton/Lindley. I liked what he did pushing the ball downfield against the Niners. Do you see him as a backup option to keep? I think he would make an excellent #2.

  15. By Cactus jeff on Feb 28, 2013 | Reply

    It comes in 3s. Nash, Upton, ?Fitz. If Reevis goes to the Niners and with Brady restructuring contract I get a sense the Patriots may try to acquire Fitz. Why it makes sense?
    Cards have little Cap space.
    Too many holes on OL and DL to fill
    No running back
    No quarterback
    Reevis renders Fitz useless
    And most importantly, Fitz will demand a trade since the Cards are in rebuilding process like the Suns after next year.

  16. By D on Feb 28, 2013 | Reply

    It’s all a guess, especially prior to free agency
    Here you go:

    QB’s—D. Stanton, B. Hoyer, K. Kolb

    (few options depending on who is left on board)

    Round 1—C. Warmack
    Round 2—C. Lemonier or S. Montgomery OLB
    Round 3—D. Slay or D. Gratz CB
    Round 4– S. Taylor RB or M. Gilleslee RB or C. Michael RB
    Round 5– K. Reddick ILB or J. Bostic ILB or AJ Klein ILB
    Round 6– Ray Armstrong SS
    Round 6— M. Williams TE

  17. By Darren Urban on Feb 28, 2013 | Reply

    Austin —

    RE: Hoyer

    I think Hoyer is still in the mix. How high he rates I don’t know.

  18. By Mike T on Feb 28, 2013 | Reply

    Darren,

    I beleive that 32 extra picks are given out based on the comp formula. If fewer than 32 picks are awarded (which is very likely this year) then the remaining picks are given out like there was an 8th round until no comp picks remain.

    So if only 25 comp picks are awarded this year. There is the possibility that the Cardinals could land an extra 7th round comp pick.

  19. By Jonathan on Feb 28, 2013 | Reply

    Hey guys,

    Can someone explain to me how the compensatory picks work? :)

  20. By donttakelosses on Feb 28, 2013 | Reply

    Q: Wondering if Warmack could be pick if Coach BA/Keim think we have 3 tackles (Levi, Nate, and Bobby). It could happen, no?

    Q: IS Warmack a 10 yr Pro Bowl Potential?

    Q: If so S in 2nd, or QB???

    Comment: can’t believe how many picks SF has;

    Q: will they trade for Revis?

  21. By Super_card on Feb 28, 2013 | Reply

    I don’t feel like we need to hit free agency hard this year maybe a few depth players here and there and that will be fine i think we have good pieces in place and good playmakers I think our main holes can be covered in the draft I hope we go oline in the first though I prefer warmack or fisher I would not mind this oline though
    Fisher,colledge,syndeline,brown,massie..I don’t know If people agree with this but I’m ready for an elite qb that is here to stay and was drafted here just like the 49ers and hawks did last year I’m tiered of good or avg veteran qbs(smith,cassel,Palmer) coming here via trade or free agency Im ready to draft our own elite qb and watch him become the face of the franchise no more settling for “expirenced veterans” I want an elite qb and I hope we can find one this draft just like the pats did with Tom Brady in the 6th round and it is possible for underdog qbs to become elite I bet no one belived that russel Wilson or Colin kapernick would be this good or else they would have been taken top 5 forshure maybe even before Andrew luck or rg3…so c’mon cardinals no more “expirenced vets” lets get our own franchise quarterback!

  22. By John The Draft Guy on Feb 28, 2013 | Reply

    Here is an interesting fact for everyone;

    In 2012, our QB sacks

    Skelton was sacked 15 times in 7 games
    Lindley was sacked 12 times in 6 games
    Kolb was sacked 27 times in 6 games

    A team is sacked on an average of 2.2 sacks a game (Rodgers was #1 with 51 sacks or 3.2 sacks a game)
    Skelton and Lindley seem in balance with the league average yet someone seems out of place. His 4.5 sacks has to make you wonder, Offensive line or Kolb.

    Maybe, as Coach Arians has said, this line isn’t that bad.

    On defense we average 2.4 sacks a game, just above the average as DWash lead the way with 9 sacks. While our edge rushers tallied 4 each or 12 (Acho, Groves, Schofield)

  23. By dieselbomb on Feb 28, 2013 | Reply

    My thoughts are :

    * Kolb is the best of what we have, mostly by virtue of starting several games and having some wins. Durability being the biggest problem. He also had to adjust from Reid’s version of the West Coast to Whisenhunt’s ridiculous 8-yard drop with complex Receiver Routes. Couple that with a troubled O-Line and you get “KaBooomb!” in the backfield.

    * Hoyer showed promise with only about two-weeks in Whisenhunt’s system. Not enough to show his potential, but due to our pitiful Offensive production in 2013 – nearly everyone thought he was great. I don’t know – he did look good. But any kind of liquid looks good to someone who’s nearly dead, crawling through the desert without a canteen of water.

    * Lindley showed promise initially after he was thrown to the wolves. I think the Lindley experiment was Whisenhunt knowing his head was on the chopping block thought he’d toss someone out there as a “See, I’m trying everything for the team”. But the NFL public, and I disagree with them, thought very, very poorly of the Rookie QB. I thought he should’ve been brought along slowly. I just don’t think anyone can compare RGIII, Andrew Luck or Wilson’s experience with Lindley’s mainly due to the overly complex system Whisenhunt ran. These other QB’s were running something much closer to what they used in their respective college teams. Whisenhunt didn’t switch to the system Lindley ran at San Diego State when Lindley was put it to replace Skelton, or any time after.

    * Don’t know what to do about Skelton. He’s got the right size and arm strength for what Arians seems to like in a QB (Rothlisberger specifications); but he’s been well-below the 60% completion rate that coaches include in their profile to gauge QB’s. But he was running Whisenhunt’s system. I wonder if he picks-up on the Arians/Moore Offense will that help him as a QB? He needs to be more accurate, that’s for sure. I’m thinking three seasons ( admittedly, three very, very odd seasons by most people’s standards) ought to be enough to see what he’s got, and it hasn’t been stellar … but there’s that one BIG gotcha in the fact that it was Whisenhunt’s system, which I think is and was the problem on our offense no matter who was behind Center.

    * We need a fall-back running game. The people we have now haven’t produced, except for spots here and there. That would’ve helped our QB’s … Any NFL QB as a matter of fact.

    This is long, I know. There’s a lot to say about our condition.

    Thank you for allowing my input -

  24. By Darren Urban on Feb 28, 2013 | Reply

    Jonathan —

    RE: Comp picks

    It’s so complicated no one knows the secret formula for sure. But basically, it is a formula based on the number of free agents you lost minus the free agents you signed. Contracts that were signed and playing time impact the formula.

  25. By Mike Ellingboe on Feb 28, 2013 | Reply

    @John,

    Agree Kolb bails out before it’s typically necessary, but if memory serves me correctly he had the good fortune being a major part of the Batiste experiment after Levi went down, and Massie, as noted many times by many different sources, was a completely different player over the second half of the season. I still have to side with Keim over Arians on this one, but getting Levi back, regardless of where we play him, should help considerably. Add Warmack or Fisher, and now we some quality and depth, not our usual combination on the OL (as Batiste so aptly demonstrated last year).

    We might even have a run game to lean on this year…

  26. By John The Draft Guy on Feb 28, 2013 | Reply

    Dieselbomb,

    I really have an issue with everyone blaming Whisenhunt for the play of the QBs.
    Remember it was Whiz, not Arians who worked with Big Ben first and helped lead the Steelers to a Superbowl. If Whiz picked the QBs, then he takes that blame.

    Mike McCoy seemed to be the guy most of us wanted here and what does he do once landing the charger job? hire Whiz as OC.

    Coaches coach, players play. The fact that Skelton or Lindley couldn’t hit a wide open receiver in the end zone is their fault. There is a reason they dropped to the 5th and 6th rounds, they had huge flaws.

    And I keep seeing this Kolb won for us garbage. Don’t forget his 1-6 in 2011. His career starting record is 9-12. Heck look at Skeltons record in 2011. Both guys benefited from strong defensive efforts and special teams. In NE, Kolb’s signature win, he passed for 132 yards and is given credit like he was Elway.

    Between Kolbs sacks, poor reads of defenses, and his injuries, I’m lost how anyone can think we should go with him this year.

    In 2012, he got knocked out of game 6 on a botched handoff and never returned.

    In 2011, he got hurt in the 7th game after leading us to a 1-6 start. He returned for game 12 only to be knocked out in game 13 after fumbling the ball on the first series.

    In 2010, With Philly, he got knocked out in the first game, He came back for game four but never made it past game 8. He did get a chance to play the last game of the year.

    In 22 games over the 3 years (out of a possible 48) played he has fumbled 16 times, thrown 24 tds against 18 picks, he has been sacked 72 times (3.5 times a game) and has a record of 8 wins and 11 losses (one win he threw one pass and got knocked out vs SF)

    But this year is different !!!! Why?

  27. By John The Draft Guy on Feb 28, 2013 | Reply

    Mike

    Batiste was sad. I felt for the guy because he just didn’t have the talent. Tough spot to be in.

    But as I stated already, Kolb’s career sack ratio is 3.5 a game and 57 times in the last 2 years. No wonder over the last 3 years as a potential starter, he has played in 22 of his possible 48 games.

    Funny But Rodgers was sacked 86 times the last two years and missed no games to injury and passed for 84tds and almost 9000 yards.

    Kolb is no Rodgers, but dang, shouldn’t we be looking for one.

  28. By tyman on Feb 28, 2013 | Reply

    Like the new thumbs up thumbs down.
    right on!!!

  29. By Scott H on Feb 28, 2013 | Reply

    Well, so much for Alex Smith. Maybe it’s better the Chiefs took him out of the picture. I will watch that situation with interest this year. Like it or not, the Cardinals are right there with the Chiefs in regard to being at the bottom of the NFL barrel, and the lack of a QB has been front and center for both teams in recent years. With Smith going to KC, we will truly see if he is able to make a bad team significantly better. If he does, it will be frustrating to watch. If he does not, I’ll take some consolation in that. Either way, right now, the Cardinals remain where they have been – desperate for a QB.

    AND, regardless of what Alex Smith turns out to be in KC, the trade to acquire him has only loaded the 49ers – already the best team in the NFC – with even more draft picks to make them even better. Just like the seahawks may end up doing with Matt Flynn. Just friggin’ wonderful, ain’t it??? That while this sorry-ass organization can’t even find ONE QB, our division mates ( ALREADY several stratospheres better than the Cardinals ) are using their surplus QB’s to get even better in other areas. Must be nice…

  30. By Mike Ellingboe on Feb 28, 2013 | Reply

    @John,

    “And I keep seeing this Kolb won for us garbage. Don’t forget his 1-6 in 2011. His career starting record is 9-12. Heck look at Skeltons record in 2011. Both guys benefited from strong defensive efforts and special teams”

    Nobody is saying Kolb is the second coming of Elway, just that at this moment he is clearly the best QB we have. For whatever it’s worth, if we compare the games they played in (Kolb’s 2012 vs. Skelton’s 2011), the completion % was 60 – 55, and TD/INT’s was 8/3 vs 11/14. Kolb’s numbers are typical of a winning QB (60% completion, almost 3/1 TD/INT ratio), whereas Skelton’s were typical of a QB who will lose more games than he wins. He somehow bucked the trend in 2011, but 2012 reality set in for him.

    “I really have an issue with everyone blaming Whisenhunt for the play of the QBs”

    I too, was a big Whisenhunt fan but his handling of our QB’s was his ultimate undoing. He never seemed to understand that it’s wise to adjust your game plan to the talents of the guys on the field. It didn’t take an expert to see that Leinart, DA, Hall, Kolb, Skelton, Lindley, Hoyer and whoever else I might be forgetting were not good fits in his offense. He and Graves had plenty of time to change their drafting stategies/game plans to accomodate a power run game/short passing attack after Warner retired, and not put so much pressure on young/inexperienced/not very good QB’s, yet bullheadedly stuck to his system because it “works.” Kind of like asking a PG with an effective shooting range of 15 feet to become a spot up three-point shooter. You can brag that your offense got him open looks, but it’s a little disingenuous to complain when he misses the majority of his shots.

    Bottom line, we’re all for getting a franchise QB back in the fold, but until then you go with the best you’ve got and adjust. Hopefully Arians sees that with clearer eyes than Whisenhunt did.

    .

  31. By Luke on Feb 28, 2013 | Reply

    If Geno smith is there at seven I say take him.kolb I think is better then Matt Barkley or what a Matt Barkley 5 years from now.

    I hope the cards use fa to grab two or three d line men an d lbs ,becaus our run defense needs to improve along with pass rushing.

    I’d really like to see this draft be focused on offense. And just bring in vets from fa to help the defense.

    But we honestly can’t tell much about what we will draft until fa has started.

  32. By John The Draft Guy on Mar 1, 2013 | Reply

    Mike,

    Valid points.

    Sure Kolb is the best option today, which isn’t saying much. But is he the best option at the end of April?

    That is my issue. I just think Kolb willl never get us where we need to be. Therefore, move on with a rookie, even if it means a step back this year.

    I have banged the Tyler Wilson drum, but I am thinking if Geno Smith drops to 7, pull the trigger. An Athletic, strong armed QB, who had 3 tough games. What could Moore and Arians mean to him? What could Fitz and Floyd mean to him? Does his feet buy an extra second to find a wr?

    Let’s solve this QB merry-go-round and cut Kolb and draft a new QB. Geno Smith would be a nice new start.

    PS; Whiz was bad at evaluating his QBs. The choices they made were crazy. But he is a very good offensive coach. I see fans wanting to keep the same QBs and blame Whiz, which is a huge mistake. Whiz with talent at QB (Warner and Big Ben) has gone to two superbowls. He knows how to coach.

  33. By John The Draft Guy on Mar 1, 2013 | Reply

    Darren,

    On restricted FA’s, when does their designations come out?

    Let me explain (and correct me if I am wrong). Each team can tender them with an offer. Depending on the tender, will depend on what a team would have to give up to sign him away. I would guess they need to tender the offer before FA begins. So have teams began tendering offers and is there a place to find out?

    EX; Victor Cruz most likely will get the highest tender and a team will have to give up 1’s to get him.

  34. By Darren Urban on Mar 1, 2013 | Reply

    John the draft guy —

    RE: RFAs

    Teams can start tendering offers now. Don’t know of any lists out there yet. But yes, the tenders must be made before the league year starts March 12. Once a player signs his tender offer, he is off the market. Until then, he can shop his services, but so few RFAs get signed to an offer sheet. And with drafted rookies almost all signing four-year deals the past couple of years (and in the future), the RFA market is going to become pointless, because there won’t be many if any.

  35. By Mike Ellingboe on Mar 1, 2013 | Reply

    @John,

    Scary, but you and I are getting close to some common ground.

    Joking, of course, but there wasn’t anything in your last post I disagreed with. Geno Smith at #7 would have to be strongly considered. My biggest concern there is I’d hate to see us miss a legit LT or Pro Bowl mauler at Guard if they’re available. I’m still kind of reeling from the Jonathan Ogden mistake.

    But to your main point, no, our QB situation isn’t much and needs improvement. I’m more of the belief that you build from the inside out, but if they came away with Geno @ #7 and Warford or Long @ #38 I’d consider that a pretty good draft as well.

  36. By dieselbomb on Mar 1, 2013 | Reply

    Attn : John the Draft Guy –

    In answer to your response, I’d like to supply a follow-up :

    ( Here’s your thoughts in toto. I’ve interjected my inside brackets in this fashion
    {{{ xxx }}} … ) –

    Dieselbomb,

    I really have an issue with everyone blaming Whisenhunt for the play of the QBs.
    Remember it was Whiz, not Arians who worked with Big Ben first and helped lead the Steelers to a Superbowl. If Whiz picked the QBs, then he takes that blame.

    {{{ What you haven’t made note of — and what I think is REALLY important to state — is the fact that Whiz signed a contract extension which included control of the 53-man roster. Everything on the roster is His doing. You’d have to show me (us) that roster moves after he signed the contract extension were not accomplished under either his direct control or at least with his knowledge and acceptance; notably the choice in seeking and hiring KKolb. Mr. Kolb made the team After the contract change which included the above-noted control over the 53-man roster. Even if he didn’t have that (he did, though), he still coached the 53-man roster which included KKolb. Whiz’s Offensice Coordinator sent in plays to the QB – ostensibly with Whiz’s approval – and for the most part, they weren’t fruitful. Little appeared to have been done about that situation. }}}

    Mike McCoy seemed to be the guy most of us wanted here and what does he do once landing the charger job? hire Whiz as OC.

    {{{ Regarding McCoy :

    I didn’t want McCoy, but that’s beside the point – It’s his mistake to make hiring Whiz. I never thought Whisenhunt had as much talent as was purported. I was able to see a river of at least small mistakes attributable to Whiz, suffered by the Cardinals. No telling how long we’ll be paying for those errors. There is much to criticize, but no real space or time to say much. But suffice that Warner is gone and so is the evidence of Whiz’s presumed expertise. Warner made it happen, in my opinion. Whiz had the dumb luck as to inherit a high-quality QB }}}

    Coaches coach, players play. The fact that Skelton or Lindley couldn’t hit a wide open receiver in the end zone is their fault. There is a reason they dropped to the 5th and 6th rounds, they had huge flaws.

    {{{ No real argument; but I do think that’s an overly simplistic outlook. I think Lindley has an upside; but I don’t think it would ever show in Whisenhunt’s system. Who knows? Lindley and/or Skelton might really shine in the Moore/Arians offense. Perhaps even Kolb. Or not. It’s speculation at this point … informed speculation, but no one has any real control over the future. }}}

    And I keep seeing this Kolb won for us garbage. Don’t forget his 1-6 in 2011. His career starting record is 9-12. Heck look at Skeltons record in 2011. Both guys benefited from strong defensive efforts and special teams. In NE, Kolb’s signature win, he passed for 132 yards and is given credit like he was Elway.

    {{{ Okay. But I look at Kolb’s signature performance as the 2nd half of the 2011 game against Dallas. He was a game manager against NE; the Defense did a number on Brady and the rest of the Pats. But that’s the benefit of a stout D … making the hurdle to a win very, very short and easy to cross . }}}

    Between Kolbs sacks, poor reads of defenses, and his injuries, I’m lost how anyone can think we should go with him this year.

    {{{ For this response, in the context of my original post, you’d have to re-read the entry. To directly quote my own entry, I said : Kolb is the best of WHAT WE HAVE, mostly by virtue of starting several games and having some wins. Durability being the biggest problem. He also had to adjust from Reid’s version of the West Coast to Whisenhunt’s ridiculous 8-yard drop with complex Receiver Routes. Couple that with a troubled O-Line and you get “KaBooomb!” in the backfield.

    — In other words, looking ONLY at our current roster, Kolb seemed to be the best choice. Who else won in 2012??? And we are talking about 2012, not 2011, and looking toward working to minimize our problems going into the 2013-14 season. ( for this quote I capitalized for emphasis, not out of anger ) }}}

    In 2012, he got knocked out of game 6 on a botched handoff and never returned.

    In 2011, he got hurt in the 7th game after leading us to a 1-6 start. He returned for game 12 only to be knocked out in game 13 after fumbling the ball on the first series.

    In 2010, With Philly, he got knocked out in the first game, He came back for game four but never made it past game 8. He did get a chance to play the last game of the year.

    In 22 games over the 3 years (out of a possible 48) played he has fumbled 16 times, thrown 24 tds against 18 picks, he has been sacked 72 times (3.5 times a game) and has a record of 8 wins and 11 losses (one win he threw one pass and got knocked out vs SF)

    {{{ If we keep him, we’ve got to work the team around him. Pretty simple. We already know his durability – Four games. That’s it. So, I don’t disagree with the proven history. He MIGHT show up better if the team is built around him, but the major sticking point is the Durability issue, which is the major factor in thoughts regarding his Reliability. Did you notice how few times the Cards worked the Two-Minute? Kolb worked it well, but Whiz went in another direction. But there it is – the Cardinals QB situation. Hoyer has had, what? six quarters of work? I don’t think it’s fair to him or any athlete to judge a future by such a small scale. That’s why I didn’t make any remarks about Hoyer. }}}

    But this year is different !!!! Why?

    {{{ Unless and until we get a worthwhile QB, nothing is different. }}}

    = = =

    For the record, I wanted the Cardinals to go after Marc Bulger way back when. Evidently, the Cards did. The Rams didn’t want to cut or trade anyone such that they’d go to a Divisional rival, so they held onto Bulger to the very last second, and Bulger departed for Baltimore. He rode the pines for a year and recovered from his immediate concussion troubles, then called it a career. We never really heard what his thoughts were/are about outlook on playing for the Cardinals. But that’s the last thing I agreed with Whisenhunt on – pursuing Bulger. Offer bucks to make it worthwhile to the Rams and I think we’d have had Bulger … all water under the bridge. I didn’t think Bulger was the answer, per se, he just seemed the better choice than what was out there. The Cardinals then scrambled to get anybody – that anybody was Derek Anderson.

    My big knock on Whiz was that when Warner was renegotiating for 2009, that was the Red Flag Alarm that it was almost too late to get a fall-back QB. He made NO MOVE WHATSOEVER!! NONE!! That stuff is Headcoaching 101; and he failed HUGE! What was he thinking? You get your new QB one or two years BEFORE your Number One’s contract expires — Whiz didn’t. That’s UNFORGIVABLE. Three years later we’re pining for the days of back-to-back playoff appearances.

    Based on that fundamental death-blow to the Cardinals, anyone who’d still thinks Whisenhunt is worth hiring doesn’t get my respect.

    Warner is here and Whisenhunt is here and the Cardinals win – pats on the back to Whisenhunt.
    Warner is gone and Whisenhunt is here and the Cardinals lose (three years running) … you give him a job ?? !!! ??? What?!? You’re kidding!!! Is it THAT hard to see Warner is the reason the Cardinals won? He took control of the offense – he tossed out Whiz’s bad play calling when Whiz called a Bum play and made the team work as well as they could – Not Whiz. You got the wrong W … it was Warner.

    I also wanted to draft Andy Dalton or Colin Kaepernick. We’ve seen the result of not going for either one of those guys.

    Anyway, thanks for your patience. Again … sorry for the long ol’ post.

  37. By Annette on Mar 1, 2013 | Reply

    JMHO, I think that of the four on the roster, it is

    1. Brian Hoyer

    2. Kolb

    3. Lindley

    cut Skelton and draft someone unless it the the backups for the Browns or Colts.

  38. By Scott H on Mar 2, 2013 | Reply

    Ok, I’ll say this – maybe Whiz shouldn’t be blamed for how bad the QB’s played here over the last 3 seasons. What we SHOULD blame him for is for the personnel decisions that PUT those QB’s in place. How’s that? Derek Anderson??? Seriously, the day we signed that loser was the beginning of a LOOOOONG and painful process of realizing that without Kurt Warner playing as well as he did from 2007-2009, Ken Whisenhunt was not even an average NFL head coach. And I think the fact that he did not get another HC job THIS off-season when there were SO many vacancies and SO few good candidates available supports that point of view.

  39. By Mike Ellingboe on Mar 3, 2013 | Reply

    @Scott H,

    I’ve agreed with most of what you’ve said so far, but I’ll have to differ on your thought that Whisenhunt wasn’t a good coach, and his inability to get another head coaching job proves that.

    First, let’s not forget that he is the one who has set expectations for this franchise where it’s at. Prior to his arrival, the only discussions Cardinal fans had was, “do you think we can get to 8-8 this year?” He took us to the Super Bowl, a sentence I never thought I’d say or type. Even Kurt Warner stood at the podium after the victory over the Eagles and repeated the phrase, “…the Cardinals are going to the Super Bowl…” Whatever else he did wrong, nobody can take that achievement away from him.

    Second, there are many coaches who didn’t get head coaching jobs this year who have some pretty impressive resumes. Whisenhunt, Lovie Smith (two guys who led their teams to SB appearances), Ray Horton, Mike Zimmer, & Jay Gruden are five examples of guys who have been/likely will be successful HC’s in the league when given another chance/first opportunity, but are now employed as coordinators, or in Smith’s case, not at all. I think Marty Schottenheimer has proven himself to be a good coach but isn’t working right now either, so using a HC job as proof of whether someone is qualified to do it is a little shortsighted. Can we say Mularkey got a fair shot in Jacksonville? Thanks to Carroll and Harbaugh, the flavor of the month right now is largely from the college ranks, but that goes in cycles. The lack of success from Saban, Petrino, Spurrier, etc., made touching a college coach unthinkable not that long ago.

    If Whisenhunt is put into the right situation, he’ll win again. If left to picking his own players, or if a situation requires him to be flexible, unless he learned from his mistakes here, he probably won’t. I do expect a significant turnaround in SD, you give him a guy like Rivers and as he showed in the past, the sky’s the limit.

  40. By Scott H on Mar 4, 2013 | Reply

    Mike –

    Appreciate your thoughts and – as always – the way they are presented. At the end of your post, you say that if put into the right position, He’ll ( Whiz ) win again. OK. But…couldn’t you say that about just about anyone??? If that is the case, then I don’t know that that really says anything of note about Ken Whisenhunt.

    I don’t believe that Whiz had NOTHING to do with the success the Cardinals had from 2007-2009. But THE single most necessary ingredient to that success was Kurt Warner. Period. And I don’t know that Whiz gets the credit for how Warner resurrected himself during that time. Warner is an extremely competitive and proud guy, who I think wanted desperately to get back on top. AND with the WR’s he had here, he had the weapons to do it.

    Speaking of those weapons, those guys were already here, having been dtafted by Dennis Green. As were MANY of the other players who figured so promintently in the team’s success from 2007-2009. So,,,I hesitate to give Whiz more credit than I feel he deserves.

    After Warner departed, it went to hell on a rocket sled and Whiz was not able to turn it around.

  41. By Scott H on Mar 4, 2013 | Reply

    Mike –

    Got cut short before, but there was more I wanted to say.

    I don’t think a good coach is one who can succeed when put into a good situation. Think about it…how many coaches really get “put into” good situations. Not many. IMHO, I think a truly good coach is one who comes into a situation that is certainly less than good and is able to direct the building up process that makes it better. And I don’t really know that Whiz did that here. I think he came into a situation that was already in the process of coming together. To his credit, the process CONTINUED under him, but…key players such as Boldin, Fitz, Warner, Edge, Dansby, Dockett, Wilson, Berry were already in place and established as among the best in the league at their positions.

    What TRULY put it over the top was Warner rising back up to the level of an elite QB and leading this team where it had never been before. I believe it could have happened w/out Whiz. I say there is NO WAY it could have happened w/out Warner.

  42. By Mike Ellingboe on Mar 5, 2013 | Reply

    @Scott H,

    There’s a lot of validity in what you’re saying, but let me elaborate a little on the Whiz/Warner connection, as I saw it.

    Warner struggled, quite a bit, under a pretty good QB coach in Green. Obviously, I don’t know the reasons why but his issues with ball security didn’t get cleaned up until Whisenhunt arrived. (To those convinced it was gloves, you’ll have to show me where to find a pair that helps with reading defenses, improving field vision, decision making, and automatically putting your arm into the proper position at all times) – Scott, I’m not addressing that to you, just to anyone who trumpets that brilliant theory. Green seemed pretty intent on giving Leinart every opportunity to take the starting job, which, in hindsight, we’d have to say was the cause of his failure here. If we look at Green’s history I think it’s fair to call him a good coach, so to Whisenhunt’s credit he succeeded where Green failed, and it wasn’t just Warner who improved when he arrived. Dockett, Dansby, Rolle, and to be honest, Fitz, played much better during that time as well.

    In keeping with Warner’s travels, he played for a guy I consider the best in the business right now, Tom Coughlin, and didn’t do much/get the opportunity there either. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not arguing the obvious about how much Whisenhunt leaned on Warner to get to the heights he did, but if Green and Coughlin couldn’t/wouldn’t get that production back out of him I don’t think we can say what Whisenhunt did was as easy as handing Warner the ball and riding his coattails.

    Do I think Whisenhunt made the mistake of giving his system too much credit for Warner’s success? Absolutely. Did he demonstrate a good eye for knowing who could run his vertical offense? Outside of a brief period for Kolb, I think we can agree that either he or Graves (probably both) colossally failed there, and to compound it, never placed any emphasis on giving their choices any significant help in the form of prioritizing an OL. It just became a piece meal project, which was a major disappointment for someone who came from an organization that placed such a strong emphasis on a power run game.

    Not saying Whisenhunt belongs in the elite status of coaches, but anyone who can get a franchise like this (no offense to anyone with that comment, just being real) to the playoffs and Super Bowl earned the designation of good. Unfortunately for us, he wasn’t great and that’s what it takes to continue that level of success, as proven many times over by the select few, elite coaches who put a competitive team on the field just about every year.

  43. By Mike Ellingboe on Mar 5, 2013 | Reply

    @Scott H,

    Just to add to that long-winded spiel, just about every HC needs the right situation to succeed. Was Belichick that dense in Cleveland, or that bright in NE? Probably neither, I’d say the truth lies somewhere in between. Other than Coughlin and Parcells, it’s hard to come up with too many names that managed to turn around multiple franchises (especially Parcells) without significantly failing somewhere along the line.

  44. By Scott H on Mar 5, 2013 | Reply

    Mike –

    Enjoying the dialogue, as always. Well, to answer your question about Belichek, ( was he that dense in Cleveland or that bright in NE? ), I say this – in Cleveland, he didn’t have Tom Brady. In NE, he did.

    I think our points actually overlap on this to some extent. Clearly, there are no coaches succeeding anywhere these days without a QB ranking anywhere from good to great. That is not in dispute.

    We could go on and on, I’m sure, and it would be a lot of fun. But since Whiz is gone and we are moving forward, let’s just bring this one to a close. Thanks for your thoughts, look forward to more going forward.

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