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Breaking down a trade, and other Palmer aftermath

Posted by Darren Urban on April 2, 2013 – 6:22 pm

There is really no way to know how long the Cardinals have been thinking about Carson Palmer, but it’s clear it’s been a little while even if the official trade talks with the Raiders didn’t start until last Friday. The Cards were in a good spot, since it seemed obvious Palmer wasn’t going to go back to Oakland. The price wasn’t steep, not even if it had been straight up for a sixth-round pick, and the Cards got a seventh-rounder back. (The conditional pick next year is reportedly another seventh rounder, and since the conventional wisdom that a pick a year later is worth less than the current year, does that mean the Cards might have given up an undrafted free agent?)

The price for Palmer — about $8 million in salary, according to reports — is fair for a veteran QB with a decent resume. More importantly, the Cardinals were good with it.

“Not only with the draft compensation but with the restructuring of the contract, we had an area we felt comfortable with as an organization,” General Manager Steve Keim said. “We stuck to it and we were patient and it worked out.”

Keim said he and Team President Michael Bidwill had a long talk about the direction of the organization when Palmer’s availability came to light. Keim stressed the opportunity to get a franchise quarterback at this stage (which sounds even better given the prospects in the draft, which are clearly not exciting too many QB-needy teams league-wide given all the QB moves.) The Cards had gone for a franchise QB trade recently, and that didn’t work out all that well.

“I think there were many lessons we learned from that trade and from other trades that we brought collectively to the table,” Bidwill said of the Kolb deal.

The changes have come fast and furious over the past month or so. “All along we talked about being proactive and being aggressive,” Keim said. The Cardinals have. And now they have a new quarterback to run out there.

– It does feel like this is a perfect fit for what Bruce Arians does. I do think Palmer can still play well, and I do think he was the best option for the Cards. Is he the long-term solution? Of course not. Even if he has a Kurt Warner-like renaissance, the Cardinals are going to keep looking for long-term answers. They already were caught short once when Warner retired and they don’t want it to happen again.

– There was also cautious optimism from players today. “Any time you add a weapon, it helps your team,” running back Rashard Mendenhall said. “But we are all waiting to see how it shakes out.” As Fitz said, “I’m coming off the most disappointing season of my career and I’m in ‘Prove it’ mode.” Everyone on the Cards, especially on offense, probably needs to view it that way.

– It can’t hurt on the timing, which got Palmer to Arizona right when voluntary work started. He lost out on most of Tuesday as the deal was completed, but emphasized he is now in Arizona ready to work. I assume that means starting full bore Wednesday. (He did get a post-contract mini-workout in with John Lott, and talked a little with new teammate Dan Williams as you can see below.)

– Speaking of Warner, Palmer knows the parallel of coming to the Cards at this late stage of his career (Palmer is 33, Warner was 34 when the Cards got him.) “It’s hard to make those comparisons. Kurt was a phenomenal player. He came here and just lit people up. I’d love to be compared to some of the things that he did here when it’s my time to leave here.”

– In his opening statement, Palmer addressed the many stories about his leaving the Raiders, including the one out there that he declined to renegotiate his contract down from $13 million in 2013 even though the Raiders were reportedly still offering $10 million this season.

“There’s been a lot of rumors and stories and inaccuracies about my departure from Oakland,” Palmer said. “I want to clear the air on that. I was presented with a contract there and I was advised not to sign that contract, with no security, no guarantees. My agent told me he would never have me sign that contract. That opportunity led me here.”

Palmer said the Raiders were moving toward youth and he had no problem with that. He also called Head Coach Dennis Allen and General Manager Reggie McKenzie “stars” at their jobs.

– Arians was increasingly optimistic about his team. It lead to the funniest exchange of the day as Arians praised the players he saw for the first time Tuesday morning.

“Having walked into that room today, that’s as good a looking football team as I’ve seen in my 20 years of coaching, stepping in the first day,” Arians said. “There’s not a bad body in the room. It’s a great looking bunch of athletes, and we will never use talent as an excuse.”

Palmer didn’t hesitate. “You saying you’ve got a good body?”

“Yeah buddy. Yes indeed,” Arians fired back. “Sixty and sexy.”

BlogPalmerWeightUSE


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Posted in Blog | 67 Comments »


67 Responses to “Breaking down a trade, and other Palmer aftermath”

  1. By luke on Apr 2, 2013 | Reply

    People forget that even Kurt warner in 2009 went 26Td-14Int with a comp of %67. Honestly I feel Palmer for not having any Offensive weapons is not to far behind. With his experience and arm strength I have great faith in Palmer. Now will anybody ever replace Kurt Warner Or be better? Well of coarse not. But Palmer has a chance to leave his his mark in a different way. Palmer threw for 4k yards last year 22td-14int. Now people say why did the raiders not do good then and make the play offs? Well you need a good defense and weapons to throw to . Now Oakland lacked both of these for the playoff level. Do the Cardz have them?Hell yeah.

  2. By Coach Kevin on Apr 2, 2013 | Reply

    THIS MAKES THE DRAFT VERY CLEAR NOW. HERE IS MY LATEST MOCK DRAFT POST PALMER TRADE:

    1. Lane Johnson,
    2. Larry Warford,
    3. Jamie Collins,
    4. Brian Schwenke,
    5. T.J. McDonald,
    6. Zac Stacy,
    7. Sean Renfree

    Rebuild the O-line and adding young depth.

  3. By Campbells on Apr 2, 2013 | Reply

    Now let’s address the other areas of weakness:
    O-line
    Offensive production by TE
    Pass rush
    Pass coverage by linebackers
    Pass coverage by the secondary

  4. By Christo on Apr 2, 2013 | Reply

    Love the move.

    Say what you will Cardinal detractors but the fact is the Cardinals FO has attempted to chase down the #1 or #2 available QB’s every year since Warner left.

    Yes we need to draft one to call our own, but it was clear the Whisenhunt and Graves were not capable.

  5. By Ricardo C on Apr 2, 2013 | Reply

    I was not a big supporter of this idea a month ago but I’m optimistic now..the best reason is because I just love absolutely love Bruce Arians commitment to Palmer already letting him know he is the quarterback of this team so Palmer feels comftarble playing out there and consentrating on throwing complete passes and not playing scare thinking I he is going to lose his job if healed a mistake like whiz handled pur quarterback situation..I think that was his biggest problem with qbs he always had them playing scared worried more about not making a mistake rather then letting it fly don’t get me wrong I’m thankfull for whiz for changing the culture around here it’s awesome that now we demand a winner and I’m just happy that we now have a coach that will have his quarterback worry about throwing touchdowns an letting him know if he throws a interception on a double team to Larry it’s ok your our quarterback! Lets go cardinals!!lets draft oline and olb and mathieu

  6. By joe holst on Apr 2, 2013 | Reply

    They must protect him, they cannot have this guy getting blindsided every 5 minutes or it will all be for nothing..

  7. By Peter in Canada on Apr 2, 2013 | Reply

    I think signing Palmer is a great move. A pity it didn’t happen two years ago. The cost was minimal in terms of what the Raiders got and the salary is manageable. He still has lots in the tank given last year’s numbers and he is the best by far that we have had since 2009. Any comparison to Warner is a stretch, however. Warner is surely a HOF’er. Palmer, while having had good years is certainly not at that level. All the optimism that was lost last year after a promising 2011 and a 4-0 start in 2012 has now returned.

  8. By DontTakeLosses on Apr 2, 2013 | Reply

    Once again, BadAss gets it done, Fast. I just like writing that nickname, lol.

    Even though we’ve been knocked around the last couple years w/o a QB, we have beaten some teams … think Patriots, Seahawks, even the 49ers. The Card still have talent… a lot. I went up and down the Roster by position. What strikes me is we have talented players at every position… … and we are a LOT younger, everywhere, except QB, and Coach;)

    So, same talent, younger players, much better at QB, a BadAss for a Coach and a Coaching staff designed to … teach. That is what was missing from Whiz’ staff. They expected the older players to bring the younger guys along, an old tradition in the NFL. But I like the old fart Sixty is Sexy coaching staff. And some of those Coaches will get after you, no doubt.

    Just want to applaud Keim, Bidwill and BA for moving fast again. Player in your sights, just get it done. Sweeet. I know the sour puss “same ol’ Cardinals” negativity guys will groan. Time to get over it. They brought Whiz in here, he kicked ass, we went Super Bowling. He faltered, they booted him and the GM, and brought in a BadAss. Here we are 6 weeks later with an entirely different team with the same talent, a real QB and a real backup QB with aspirations and talent.

    PS: And the new guys all are playing for a new contract, that’s hungry bro, sis. I have no doubt BA will be able to sort whom to keep next year, too.

  9. By Card Fan Gary on Apr 2, 2013 | Reply

    Well, I wasn’t for this at first but we didn’t give up a lot. Just wish we could find a young franchise quarterback at be set at the position so we wouldn’t need to go through this in a couple more years. But now that he is a Cardinal, I am behind him all the way…..Let’s suprise some people and win the division this year….go Cards!

  10. By Gilbert on Apr 2, 2013 | Reply

    i think it was a good trade and improvement from last yrs qb debacle, this only proves that Bidwill leadership is moving the Cards forward and is on a win mode

  11. By Dre on Apr 2, 2013 | Reply

    I’m cool with it as long he don’t quit on us.

  12. By andystandsup on Apr 2, 2013 | Reply

    On the surface, and even on the soft mantle with the possible out on the Cards part for year two if it doesn’t work as expected, seems like a win-win.

  13. By D on Apr 2, 2013 | Reply

    Cards did upgrade today, I like it for a couple of years, next year’s draft class for QB is much better to find a franchise QB. I don’t expect Kurt W type numbers but if he doesn’t turn the ball over, has protection and the Cards can run the ball, the defense should keep games fairly close to keep them in games.

    I don’t think they can fill all of the holes in the draft. So, if they could pick up a pass rusher still in free agency, like a S. Phillips from SD and have a draft like below, I think this team could be good.

    Round 1– C. Warmack G. I rather would have E. Fisher at OT but highly doubtful he will be there at 7. Warmack would improve the run game. A real player, just ask Teo about that Championship game about Chance. Move Synder to a backup role.

    Round 2– J. Cyprien SS Cards need a young big strong Safety to replace Adub.

    Round 3– X Nixon LT. A player to groom to replace Levi in one year at Left Tackle

    Round 4– C. Michael RB. Cards need a young RB behind injured Ryan and Rashard

    Round 5– T. Simon CB. Cason is on a one year deal, young CB to groom for next year to start and to play special teams this year.

  14. By Steve on Apr 2, 2013 | Reply

    Darren: I just watched Palmers touchdown throws of 2012 on youtube and he still looks like he has good enough arm strength to me. Kurt Warner said that 33 years of age is not old for a pocket passer so I trhink this deal was very smart.

  15. By John The Draft Guy on Apr 2, 2013 | Reply

    I read an article on NFL.com and an interesting stat was in it.

    Post-Warner, Cardinals quarterbacks have completed just 54 percent of their passes at 6.2 yards per attempt with a nasty 42:63 touchdown-to-interception ratio and a 65.7 rating.

    Over that same span, Palmer has completed 61.3 percent of his passes at 7.3 yards per attempt with a 61:50 touchdown-to-interception ratio and a 83.1 rating.

    Now enter Palmer to the cards. He reads defenses and doesnt take sacks (check out his career stats ) 36 sacks was his career high. Only once did he go over 30 sacks. You will see this bad oline get better because of Palmer knowing where to go with the ball.

    Not to mention, With Fitz, Michael Floyd , Andre Roberts and Rob Housler , this team gives Palmer weapons he has never had. Fitz gives Palmer the option to throw the ball when he is covered and trust Larry will come down with it.

  16. By Ricardo C on Apr 2, 2013 | Reply

    Darn you auto correct my post now looks like it was written by a 2 year old.

  17. By Tucson Card on Apr 2, 2013 | Reply

    This was a good trade. I’m pretty stoked to see how the draft unfolds.
    I hope we snag Warmack at no. 7. He’s the man when it comes to run blocking, which, assuming the RBs stay healthy, will open up the offense. I’m prety excited about this year.

  18. By Coach Kevin on Apr 2, 2013 | Reply

    All we need is depth on the offensive line and one more solid running back and look out. Palmer has never had this much talent around him. The offensive line is crucial. We need quality and depth. May the best five men win!

  19. By ored on Apr 2, 2013 | Reply

    ba mentioned a couple of big bodies up front and a burner at reciever,hmmm something tells me he already has that planned out,don’t know who just yet but i think he’s also thinking tight end and a big back or use the fb in short yardage situations.

    there is still a passrusher and a guard available in free agency that would work for us,would leave a lot of wiggle room on draft day.really liking the way we are heading.

  20. By Eazy E on Apr 2, 2013 | Reply

    It is sad for us to be this desperate for a washed up QB. Why are we even putting him and Kurt in the same sentence, breath or category? Your welcome cardinals fans that LOVE this move when egg is all over your sad faces next season. I am a Cardinal fan definitely but y’all gotta be real, y’all act like we got Peyton or Brady, this would still not stop me from drafting Geno at 7 or move up if he starts to fall and get back in the first round maybe in the late teens or in the 20’s who knows and may the best man win and that would be Geno because a past his prime QB is no match for a young star to be franchise QB. Cardinals fans that aren’t impressed stay with it because we got a bunch of delusional and nieve fans around here starting with Bruce Arians Lord have mercy!

  21. By Eazy E on Apr 2, 2013 | Reply

    Also, stop saying he never had weapons, Chad Johnson was the best receiver in the game when he was in Cincy and Houshmandzadeh was an elite WR also along with good TEs and O-Line. Don’t act like he was playing with a bunch of Rudys and he was so good. BTW, his QBR which is ESPN’s QB Rating and is way more accurate than the NFL passer rating was a below average 44.2.#Their you have it folks!

  22. By Cactus jeff on Apr 2, 2013 | Reply

    Darren
    How has Michael Floyd’s offseason been? Has been seen at the facility?

  23. By AB on Apr 3, 2013 | Reply

    Hey Darren,

    I don’t know if you’ve answered this already, but do you know what Andre Roberts current contract situation is, and where you see him long-term?

    Thank you!

  24. By Corgon on Apr 3, 2013 | Reply

    Yeeeeee, Nnamdi signed with the 49ers. Fitz can burn him two times/year for sure :)

  25. By johnnybluenose on Apr 3, 2013 | Reply

    for a lot of reasons, players get attached to the number they wear on their jersey. obviously, #3 means a lot to carson palmer. he wore it at usc, he wore it at Oakland and now he is wearing it as an Arizona cardinal. interestingly, in cincy he wore #9 (3X3). nice of jay feely to give up his own #3 (for three pointers?). thank you, kevin, for leaving and allowing jay to have your #4 (a field goal plus a convert?). athletes choose numbers for a variety of reasons. sidney crosby wears #87 because of his birthday, aug 7,1987. jaromir jagr wears #68 because czechoslavakia revolted against the soviet union in 1968. ryan Williams wears #34 because that was walter payton’s number. I have often wondered ( I know, I have way too much idle time) why fitz wears #11. I know other receivers also wear that number but something in the 80’s is more the norm. does anyone out there know if there is any reason why fitz wears #11 and, if so, do you want to share this information so that I can add to all the other pieces of useless information stored in my brain? does everyone already know that babe ruth wore #3 because he hit third in the batting order? and lou gerhig wore #4 because he hit fourth? I know, who cares? whatever numbers our guys wear this year let us all hope that our cardinals are number one.

  26. By Andrew on Apr 3, 2013 | Reply

    I like the move, A LOT! By far the best QB on the roster since Kurt Warner. I’m starting to get some hope for this coming season.

  27. By Safety Guy on Apr 3, 2013 | Reply

    Thinking that if we are able to shut down the read option of the Hawks and Niners, we will be in the thick of things in the NFC West.

  28. By Dynosoar on Apr 3, 2013 | Reply

    DontTakeLosses,

    I just finished your post above and got even more excited than I am now. It was a pep ralley post that had substance and meat in every statement. Not a Rah Rah, but a solid post stating exactly what Bidwill, Keim and Arians (BadAss) have truly done.

    Like a QB who sees an open receiver and hits hits them dead on the numbers, they’ve done the same thing with their tagetting and contracts in FA. This draft is going to be sweet.

    NFL, bring it on! We’re ready. San Francisco and Seatle, take that!

    NY next February, get ready to host the Cardinals!

    ps. Darren, someone in the last blog was correct, you’ve been busy and have brought us Cardinals junkies some great material. I’m wearing my red jersey today because of your articles yesterday. I’m showing my support for this QB move and pretty much all of the offseason moves thus far.

    Michael Bidwill, if you’re ever on here and your on here now, Thank You!!!

  29. By Dynosoar on Apr 3, 2013 | Reply

    John The Draft Guy,

    Your coments cement the satisfaction I have in the offseason moves our team has made. Elite QB’s have >60% completion and go for first downs and touchdowns on third down. (Except Vick this next season, I wonder if Philly will trade their punter for another DE or LB, Kelly won’t need the punter.)

    Also on the Warmack thoughts you posted last night, thanks. Despite the trends I over the last few years I’m torn. Being a Tennessee Volunteer fan, I don’t like Alabama or anything Florida, but Lacey and Warmack are no longer Crimson Tide, they’re potential Cardinals and they both already look good in red (imagine how much better in Cardinal red instead of that dingy Bama red.)

    How much better could Palmer be with a running back trio of Mendenhall, Powell and Lacey? (Although, if Williams heals and can stay healthy, I don’t think we’d need Lacey). What if he had Warmack in front of him?

    I don’t know what will happen, but I can say this much; I’m really looking forward to this upcomming draft and the season that will follow.

  30. By Dynosoar on Apr 3, 2013 | Reply

    I hear something today since Oakland agreed to this trade I haven’t heard in a long while. We are an excited group of people. If our Cardinals prepare well and carry this kind of enthusiasm into their games, we’re going to be the irrisistable force and there isn’t an immovable object out there in our division.

    There’s enthusiasm this morning.

  31. By Azcardsguy123 on Apr 3, 2013 | Reply

    We all remember Palmers days in Cinncinati some good some bad but he was up there almost in the elite category so arizona has a REAL QB not some backup I guys who has started almost all of his career and knows how to read defenses and throw the ball downfield. Its not a match made in heaven I think we’d all rather have Brady, Rodgers or Brees but he is a good QB with a good 5 years left in him So arizona now can focus on there other needs but there is no question that they could take a QB in the first round in the years to come

  32. By zippo79 on Apr 3, 2013 | Reply

    lol

  33. By Darren Urban on Apr 3, 2013 | Reply

    Cactus —

    RE: Floyd

    Floyd has been here, yes.

  34. By zippo79 on Apr 3, 2013 | Reply

    Yup, I like the trade, Palmer brings a skill set here that was not here for a long time. and we are going to build the o line around him. that’s sweet! GO BA GO Palmer you got my support! SEXY IN SIXTY!

  35. By Darren Urban on Apr 3, 2013 | Reply

    AB —

    RE: Roberts

    Andre is under contract through this season.

    As with most players, I think it’s year-to-year. They like Andre, but if Floyd develops, you never know what happens with the No. 3 guy.

  36. By Brian E on Apr 3, 2013 | Reply

    Watching the press conference from yesterday I couldn’t help but notice the repect going both ways between BA and Carson as well as the comfort level in place already for Carson to crack a joke at BA’s expense. Carson seems genuinly excited to be here and I don’t think the same can be said about his final days in Cincy and his time in OAK(can’t say I blame him). His best days were when he had weapons like Chad Johnson and T.J. and now he will have, IMO, much better weapons with smaller egos. If our OL continues to improve like it did the 2nd half of last year and we throw in a 1st or 2nd round T or G, we could have a very potent passing game and much improved running game. Not saying we’re SB contenders, but with this move and what we can potentially do in the draft, we are much better suited to compete in the toughest division in the NFL.

  37. By John The Draft Guy on Apr 3, 2013 | Reply

    Easy E,

    Palmer excitement;

    Yes Palmer had Ochocinco and Hoosh. No denying that. But even in his prime, Ocho can’t hold a candle to Fitz. We also got a glimpse of what Floyd can do with a third string QB when he went off against the niners last year, and Roberts is a solid slot wr. With a coach who uses TEs and a QB who can find them, Housler and his 4.5 speed will have a big year.

    We had nothing at QB last year. I mean nothing. Looking at the Palmer comparisons I posted above, Palmer had 20 more TDs over the last 3 years than cardinal QBs.
    Palmer had very little to work with in Oakland. Giving him the talent around him he now has, there is room for optimism.

    As for egg on our faces, no matter how it turns out, it was a smart move. We got Palmer for next to nothing, he has a friendly contract to release him next year if need be. We invested in a backup QB, and if BA/Keim ect, like a QB in this draft, by all means take him.

    How is that a bad move. A vet QB, who has had success going to the cards for next to nothing, and potential to have a nice year? Not to mention, Fitz cap hit is 18 million next year, and to keep him, you better find a QB.

  38. By John The Draft Guy on Apr 3, 2013 | Reply

    Dynosoar,

    I really do love Lacey. Look back a couple a months ago and I was touting Lacey as our second round pick.

    But with Mendenhal in the fold, I think it makes sense to look more at a late round rb and see if Williams has anything. If you find out that Williams isn’t going to be able to do the job, you move on. But, because we have a RB who is 25 and should hold down the starting job this season, I think it is wise not to draft a rb high.

    As for Warmack and Cooper;
    You have to go back to Kyle Turley in 1998 draft to find a guard who broke into the top 15. If I am not mistaken, their was a believe Turley could play tackle.
    In 2011, Pouncey landed at #15 for the Dolphins as a center.

    So, if I am sitting at 7, I am not taking a guard. If that is the player you want, trade down to 13-16 and take Cooper or Warmack.
    I could be wrong, but history just doesnt back taking a guard high.

    My Draft;
    I truly believe one of the two big tackles drops to us. I think KC trades out of #1, and the Lions defensive minded coach, looks to add to that side of the ball.
    Jacksonville added Seattle D-cord as head coach. He is looking, IMO, to fix the defense. So my cards draft;

    1. Eric Fisher

    2. Jamie Collins or Zac Ertz- A dynamic pass rusher or an inline TE to go with BAs two TE system.

    3. FS’s Eric Reed or Phillip Thomas. With Johnson our Strong safety and Bell our FS, one of these guys can ease into a starting role over Bell.

    4. Kiko Alonzo – Gets his feet wet behind Brinkley, takes over next year.

    5. Alvin Bailey – an athletic guard

    6. Hugh Thorton, another solid , athletic guard.

    7. Kniles Davis – RB who could be a boom or bust. At 7, thats where you take a chance.

  39. By red bird of death! on Apr 3, 2013 | Reply

    Shock the world …..Darren ……..do you remember shock the world ? This year I hope we do.

  40. By D on Apr 3, 2013 | Reply

    John
    Fisher dropping? All Cards front office should rub their lucking bird head for that to happen.
    I don’t see them drafting 3 OL, probably 2, OT and G and have Potter work his way into a G spot next year.
    Doubt if your TE falls to round 2. I do like your J. Collins pick though
    I also like your Round 3 choice at FS
    Doubt if Kiko fell that far, but if he did I would be all over that pick
    I also like your 5th round choice if he would be there…

    I worry that BA didn’t mention yesterday about adding a RB in the draft, he should learn from Whiz, can’t go into a season with injured plagued RB’s…I am hoping for Williams to recover but you need to have a fall back option…

  41. By MIKE HADZINSKI C.M. PUNK on Apr 3, 2013 | Reply

    darren,

    So let me get this straight our Backup quarterback is making 3mill for holding a clipboard?

  42. By Chuck 1 on Apr 3, 2013 | Reply

    Before last season, I believed that the Cards would finish 7-9 (at best) or 6-10.
    The reasons:
    * Whiz’s poor record in 2010 and 2011
    * His choice of Miller for OC
    * The inferior OL
    * Inferior QBs, Kolb’s ability and durability and especially unproven backups, Skelton and Lindley
    And, guess what??? I WAS TOO OPTIMISTIC!!!

    I must say that, before Free Agency this off season, I didn’t know what Michael Bidwill and Keim would do. I didn’t know how much Keim had been in agreement with the (disastrous) personnel decisions that Graves had made.
    I was sure that the Cards wouldn’t make the playoffs in 2013, probably not until 2015, considering that the 9ers and ‘Hawks are powerful in addition to the other excellent teams in the NFC.

    Well, Michael, Keim and BA have proven to me that they are committed to making the Cards an elite team.

    So, even before the draft, I’m going on record that, BARRING SIGNIFICANT INJURIES TO KEY PLAYERS, the Cards will finish AT LEAST 8-8.

  43. By Bill L on Apr 3, 2013 | Reply

    Can’t wait for the draft …….. to get the full picture revealed. Palmer changes A LOT!! IF anything is done with the O-Line……the Cards are going to win quite a bit more than last year…….which is great, but Catch-22….that will make it harder to move up for a 2014 QB. Will they use 7 for the QB of the future and 2 and 3 for the O-line……..or, will they take the LT at 7 and use 2 and 3 to move back into the 1st for a QB…….or take the LT and hope their QB falls to the 2nd……or, No QB this year and Break the bank on draft picks to get ahead of ……..say JAX, OAK, NYJ, whoever. in 2014…………Can’t wait for the draft.

  44. By D on Apr 3, 2013 | Reply

    Larry Grant from SF I believe is still on the street at only 28 yrs old….has experience playing in a 3-4……

  45. By jocards on Apr 3, 2013 | Reply

    I just don’t see how anybody could not agree that bringing in Carson Palmer makes this team better. He isn’t the long term answer but he is a world better than what we had. Palmer’s numbers were not bad last season and though statistics never tell a complete story the argument that he compiled all of his numbers when the team was behind and had to throw isn’t all that relevant. A running back often compiles some impressive stats when his team is leading and running some clock, a pass rusher often pads his sack totals when the opposition is behind and is apt to be throwing the football. As I said, statistics never tell a complete story. Carson Palmer can make all the throws required of an NFL QB….we have not had a guy like that in awhile.

  46. By Dynosoar on Apr 3, 2013 | Reply

    So is Washington getting a suspension a way for the NFL to have parity in a division we’ve been stepping up to take over?

    Substance abuse is totally avoidable, at least like Big Ben he didn’t follow a co-ed into a bathroom.

    C’mon team, let’s not blow the playmaking ability of this team with suspensions.

    I also believe in choice and accountability. If more in our society were accountable, whether by themselves or by someone else, we’d have a much better place to live.

    Way to go Daryl (not for the substance abuse, but for being accountable.) Way to show everyone that you don’t have to fight when in the wrong, just be accountable. Wish all players would learn from your example.

  47. By Sammy on Apr 3, 2013 | Reply

    Skelton now a Bengal. Apparently Seattle was looking at him as well and SF was interested before Colt McCoy but Skelton had not been released. Word is the Cards did not want to have him in their conference and held back the release date.

    http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/04/03/bengals-claim-john-skelton-off-waivers/

  48. By Dynosoar on Apr 3, 2013 | Reply

    John The Draft Guy,

    I agree, if Williams is healthy then he could be as good as Lacey and I do wonder, would Lacey be as good without Warmack in front of him?

    I’d love to see Williams, Powell and Mendenhall behind Warmack and add in Potter Massey and a recovered Levi and we’ve got a front line that can push.

    I like the idea of trading down and getting Warmack, but why would it matter if Warmack were taken at 7 or 15. If he’s not the best player at his position, he’s tied. Is it a money thing? Will he not perform as well if taken so high? Why not take him so high?

    I say best player available and if we can get BPA that also fills a need then we scored twice. FA to fill holes, draft BPA. If that’s a guard at #7 then take a guard at #7. (Although, I’ll qualify with I’ve not spent as much time as you studying drafts, never had a desire or time to do so, so while I’m oppinionated on this, I’m also not the best source for reliable information.)

    As a side, what is it about Cooper that you like? And, what do you and D like about Eric Fisher?

  49. By Darren Urban on Apr 3, 2013 | Reply

    Mike Hadzinski —

    RE: Stanton

    I believe Stanton’s salary is $1 million.

  50. By John The Draft Guy on Apr 3, 2013 | Reply

    D

    Fisher dropping;
    As I stated above, The Jags, Raiders, Eagles and Browns are not taking a tackle. That leaves the Chiefs and Lions. If Chiefs trade out or the Lions, who took Riley Rieff last year dont take a tackle, we could have both Joeckel and Fisher fall.

    Ertz;
    I cant see Ertz going in round one. Eifert will but I’m not sure both. But if he did, I would then look Collins.

    Kiko Alonzo – Dropping to our 4th round is a bit of a stretch but if several QBs go in rounds 2 and 3, someone drops.

    Lineman;
    I would look at releasing Brown (7 million), Colledge (7.7 million), and Snyder (4million) next year. Adding two guards and a tackle would make up for those releases.

  51. By John The Draft Guy on Apr 3, 2013 | Reply

    D

    Remember, we have Peterson’s deal to redo next year. Most likely Fitz’s deal and possibly Palmers if he does well.
    Dan Williams is another possible player to get another deal.
    Plus guys like Mendenhal, Cason, Powers and Brinkley. If they play really well, we may be paying to keep them.

  52. By Scott H on Apr 3, 2013 | Reply

    As the smoke clears a little, I realize that having Carson Palmer is…OK. Is he perhaps the best option the Cardinals could have possibly ended up with right now? Probably. ( Although, I’m keeping an eye on how Alex Smith does in KC this season before I pass a final ruling on that ). But when ya look at how measely the QB options were this off-season….how much does that really say???

    But, for all those who accuse me of nothing but negativity, I do think the Cardinals did the best they – and maybe anyone else – could do to address the QB position right now and that is all you can ask your team to do. I also think the deal they made to get Palmer here is quite reasonable and I give them props for that. Thank God they didin’t have to do a deal ANYWHERE NEAR what the Raiders did for Palmer a couple of years ago. For whatever Palmer is or is not at this point, we basically got the same QB they did, just for a WHOLE LOT LESS. Given what WE paid for Kolb compared to what the Bills just got him for, the Palmer deal helps ease the pain a little.

    There. See? A whole post with no negativity! Even some silver-lining thinking thrown in at no extra charge! Really, I’m not such a bad guy.

    Onward with Carson Palmer. I am on board and I hope he has a great season. AND I hope he brings Larry Fitzgerald back from the dead. This is THE best WR Palmer has EVER had to throw to. here’s hoping they can help each other get back on the map. NO WAY a WR like Fitz should be healthy for a whole season and have numbers like he did last year. I look forward to a resurrection!

    Can I get credit for using the words “I look forward to?”

  53. By Kevin S on Apr 3, 2013 | Reply

    Scott H —

    No problem holding out the jury as far as A. Smith vs. Palmer, but we weren’t going to get Smith from the 49ers… they weren’t going to trade him within the division. Not to mention, when you do your comparison later, remember that the Chiefs gave up the 34th overall pick (2nd pick in 2nd round) to get him, plus a conditional pick next year. We gave up peanuts in comparison to get Palmer.

  54. By John The Draft Guy on Apr 3, 2013 | Reply

    Dynosoar,

    Truth be told, if you are sold on a player, then take them.

    But I think he could drop. Lets say the Bucs want to come up from 13 and take a CB. We pick up a second round pick and grab Warmack at 13. That is why you would want to trade down and take him later.
    Of course, Tenn and SD could take the two guards and you lose out.

    My thought though is guards are not impact players. Top 15 players should be difference makers. Lets say, if you could land, say pro bowl guard Carl Nicks at 7 or Demarcus Ware, Larry Fitz, Brian Urlacker, Darrelle Revis, or Joe Thomas, who would you take? You see what I mean?

    If we take Cooper or Warmack, would I be upset? not really. I just think of probowl guards like Jahri Evens and Carl Nicks were 4th and 5th round picks. Alvin Bailey could be almost as effective as the big two and could be had between rounds 4-6.

    Eric Fisher;
    He caught my eye at the senior bowl practices. I was waiting to watch Alex Okafer tear it up. And he was. Till Fisher stepped in. Fishers balance is great. Once he makes contact you are done. He did allow Okefer to bull rush him but overall, was dominant. He also has a nasty streak where a couple times keep going pushing Okefer back 5 yards. He stoned everyone in the game.
    Now, I have never see his games this year, so some of that is trust from guys like Mayock who has watched the games.

    I think Joeckel is better and I think Fisher is not Joe Thomas. But he can be a solid tackle for 10-15 years. With that being said, Terron Armstead is a super athletic tackle who might be there in round two. I also like Potter. I thought he did nice job. But if we grabbed a franchise LT, potter can move.

    From the clips I have seen on Cooper, he is very athletic. Fast to the second level and great at pulling. Very solid in the passing game also. I see the two guards as 1A and 1B instead of 1 and 2.

  55. By eric on Apr 4, 2013 | Reply

    solid move….now lets go get a OT or OG at number 7.

  56. By Scott H on Apr 4, 2013 | Reply

    Kevin S –

    I hear ya and that is a fair point. Let’s just hope this is not a case of you get what you pay for. The Cheifs may have over-paid for Smith but as we WELL know ( unfortunately ), that is what usually happens to bad teams that are stuck in a rut with on-going poor QB play. They end up over-paying for QB’s who are a roll of the dice. We did it with Kolb. The Raiders did it with Palmer just recently. Scary thing is, how often does it really seem to work out???

  57. By Mike Ellingboe on Apr 4, 2013 | Reply

    @JTDG,

    “Lineman;
    I would look at releasing Brown (7 million), Colledge (7.7 million), and Snyder (4million) next year. Adding two guards and a tackle would make up for those releases.”

    Whoa. I have to pitch in my two cents on that idea, as you’re not the only one to have suggested it (either directly, as you did above, or indirectly, as others have by mocking three OL’s in the draft).

    At the end of the day that would leave us with 3 rookies, 3 second year players (Potter, Massie, & Kelemete), Sendlein and whatever combo of one or two journeymen most teams carry as their 8th and 9th (if applicable) OL’s. Whatever improvement that was made by replacing Batiste with Potter and a better second half by Massie would be wiped out with that extreme idea of purging veterans. Eventually let them go, but do in amounts the offense can handle. I can’t recall anybody ever going that young all the way across the line of scrimmage. If we thought our QB’s were dropping like flies before, we’d likely set a new record for wiping them out with that amount of inexperience all stacked together.

  58. By Kevin S on Apr 4, 2013 | Reply

    Scott H —

    I agree, sometimes it doesn’t work out. Usually if a team has a really good QB, they keep him — it’s the #1 position where you don’t let go. Unlike, say, other positions (e.g., WR) where it’s not unusual to see a guy like Percy Harvin switch teams. So it makes sense that the guys available as FA’s usually aren’t that good… you’re trying to get a guy who’s a backup behind an established guy (like the Seahawks did with Flynn), or a guy who lost his job (like Kolb with Vick). That’s part of the reason I wasn’t as hard as some on the prior regime for the Kolb experiment. It seemed like a good idea at the time. I do think, though, that we screwed up in 2012, in drafting a WR with our #1 pick instead of a QB. Now, would we have drafted the “right” QB? Who knows… not many people saw R. Wilson coming. We might have chosen Weeden, or Osweiler. I know some advocated moving up to get Tannehill.

  59. By Scott H on Apr 4, 2013 | Reply

    Kevin S –

    Oh, I was very much in favor of the kolb deal at the time because I believed that he WAS a good QB. So, I don’t fault the organization for doing what it needed to to get him. The only thing I wonder about now is if we really needed to give up as much as we did simply because it didn;t seem like there was much – if any – competition for the Cardinals to worry about. Supposedly, the Seahawks were in the race for awhile but didn’t they drop out and pick up Tavaris Jackson BEFORE the Cardinals traded with Philly to get Kolb? Darren, perhaps you could help here? The Eagles had the upper hand but….I also think it was in THEIR best interests to trade Kolb at that time because his value was never gonna be higher. But…doesn’t matter now. It looked like the right move to make, they made it, and well…we know the rest.

    Sad thing about Kolb is that I think he IS a good QB. But he CANNOT stay healthy long enough to prove it. So…moving on from him was also the right move. It’s just a shame two seasons came and went and we have nothing to show for it.

    Good dialoguing with you, bro.

  60. By John The Draft Guy on Apr 4, 2013 | Reply

    Mike Ellingboe,

    It would leave us with 3 third year players and 3 second year guys and Sendlin and a vet or two we could add at a salary less than 4-8 million we are paying.

    This move wouldn’t happen till next year. Of course, if the players like Potter, Massie or the rookies didn’t perform, it would change things.

    But if you landed say Fisher and a couple young guards, you will obviously start Fisher. Massie or Potter would take over the other tackle and the 3 young guards and Massie/Potter would battle for the other two guards. Adding a couple vets at low salaries could happen also. But all this would take place after we saw what the young lineman had this year.

  61. By Eazy E on Apr 4, 2013 | Reply

    John The Draft Guy-

    Chad Johnson:
    Best Yr: ’03 90 Rec. 1,355 yds. 10 TDs 15.1 w/Jon Kitna btw
    Best Yr w/ Carson: ’05 97 Rec. 1,432 yds. 9 TDs 14.8

    Larry Fitzgerald:
    Best Yr.: ’08 96 Rec. 1,431 yds. 12 TDs 14.9 w/Kurt Warner

    Their best years are eerily similar bro. 97 to Larry’s 96, 1,432 to 1,431, 9 to 12 and 14.8 to Larry’s 14.9. #Told Ya!

  62. By John The Draft Guy on Apr 5, 2013 | Reply

    Easy E’

    Stats do not tell the whole story.

    Although I do not discount Ocho in his prime, Larry’s ’08 season, including playoffs was as good as a season as I have seen. (including Megatrons 2000 season).

    Larry would be covered by three guys and come up with the ball (I have that picture in playoffs against Atlanta). Sure Ocho was good but he didn’t take over games the way Larry did. Also, look back at the fact that Breaston and Boldin also had 1000 yd seasons due to the attention Larry got.

    I mean, If you were in the Superbowl and had a choice between Ocho in his prime or Larry, who would you take? Exactly.

    But again, The point was, I think the addition of Floyd, Housler, and Roberts gives Palmer great weapons.

    People forget how good Larry is because of the horrible QBs we have had the past 3 years.

  63. By Mike Ellingboe on Apr 5, 2013 | Reply

    @JTDG,

    Not following your timeline. You’d carry 10 OL’s? (Potter, Massie, Kelemete, Sendlein, Brown, Snyder, Colledge and three new draft picks). At best we’d go with 9, more likely to be 8, and the last two typically aren’t high draft choices or experienced starters. If you draft three more this year, that gives you six over the past two seasons and something has to give. I can’t see carrying a line that young so some combo of Brown, Snyder and Colledge would have to stay, and in that case you’re drafting guys just to cut them. You don’t really believe we’d go (hypothetically) Fisher, rookie G/Potter, Sendlein, rookie G, Massie, and cut Brown, Colledge, & Snyder and keep Kelemete & the loser of rookie G/Potter as primary back-ups, do you? That’s where you lost me with having second and third year players starting, instead of rookies and second year players (save Sendlein).

    I see us drafting one early, and don’t expect any more after that. Just aren’t enough slots to go around. For all the critiques of Whisenhunt & Graves not addressing it enough, three picks from last season makes three more this year unrealistic. Especially considering we only get 7 picks total, and are likely to at least add a TE, RB, Safety, & look strongly at adding another OLB, QB and who knows about ILB. Wouldn’t leave much room for anything else.

  64. By John The Draft Guy on Apr 5, 2013 | Reply

    Mike Ellingboe,

    OK, here is the time line.
    2013 season – we draft fisher, Bailey and Thorton (for arguement sake)

    Fisher would be LT – we would agree on that,

    RT is a battle between Massie, Brown and Potter.
    I would bring Brown to camp but he needs to start or he needs to be released.

    RG – Kelemente, Thorton, Bailey and Snyder battles it out. Potter/Massie could be in the mix also.

    LG – same battle but replace colledge for snyder. If colledge doesnt win the job, send him and his 7.7 million packing. Could insert Brown here.

    So, you have Fisher, Massie, Potter, Snyder, Sendlin, Thorton, Bailey are in. (7) oline with Colledge, Brown and Kelemente battle for last spot. If both Colledge and Brown are in, we would consider 9 but that would be very disappointing that Massie or Potter couldn’t unseed the vets.

    Snyder can play center, guard and tackle.
    Potter cam play both tackle spots and maybe guard.
    A starting lineup could look like
    LT – Fisher
    LG – Colledge/Brown
    C – Sendlin
    RG – Massie / Potter
    RT – Brown/ Potter/ Massie

    With Snyder, Thorton and Bailey as backups

    2014
    LT – Fisher
    LG – Bailey
    C – Sendlin
    RG – Massie / Potter /Thorton
    RT – Potter/ Massie

    reserves; Thorton , a drafted center, a vet tackle/guard at a reasonable price or if need be, the money is now available to go out and land a missing piece on the line.

    Brown, colledge and Snyder are all gone saving 18 million in cap space by 2014.
    And over the two years, the only rookie to start would be fisher.

    Whether you agree or not, at least I hope you understand it.

  65. By Scott H on Apr 5, 2013 | Reply

    John the Draft Guy –

    Housler, Housler….wait, who is this Housler you speak of? Ah, yes, he’s ( supposedly ) one of our TE’s. That expalins why I have no idea who he is. NOBODY knows who the TE’s on this team are. Why would they? Guys who play TE for the Cardinals for the past decade or so are consistently among the most anonymous players in the entire league.

    OK, end sarcasm. But you get my point. Year after year during the Whisenhunt regime – and then some – I hoped that each passing year would FINALLY be the one during which we would discover that the TE can actually be a useful weapon in an NFL offense. And year after year, nothing. And I mean N-O-T-H-I-N-G. If the Cardinals have not been dead last in the NFL where utilization of the TE is concerned over the last, say, five years or so, then I cannot imagine who is. Because I can name a TE right off the top of my head for just about every other team in the league during that time. But if I were not a Cardinals fan? i would have NO IDEA who their TE’s have been. At any position on any team during that time, our TE’s have been about as irrelevant as it gets.

    So…once again, I will hope that this MAY be the year.

  66. By John The Draft Guy on Apr 6, 2013 | Reply

    Scott H

    I get your point. Remember, we actually had Novacek before he became a star in Dallas. I’m hoping we will use Housler before he becomes a star for someone else.

  67. By Scott H on Apr 7, 2013 | Reply

    Exactly. I have no doubt that Housler would be much more utilized if we anywhere else other than here. No, I don’t know what conversations actaully go on among the coaches about systems, game-planning, play-calling, etc. But when the TE position has become such an integral part of some ot the best offenses in the league over the past sveral years ( Patriots, Packers, Saints ) and other TE’s in other places are among the top pass-catchers in the league, it just infuriates me that this team does nothing to incorporate this into their offense. I mean, based on results, it ain’t like the Cardinals know something the rest of the league doesn’t.

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