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Blogs

Tackle situation shows why you don’t fall in love

Posted by Darren Urban on April 18, 2013 – 11:19 am

One of the clichés that always floats around at draft time is that a team never ever ever should fall in love with a player. I mean, if you’re picking No. 1, fine. But otherwise, there is always a risk that said player or players isn’t going to be there. And you don’t want to be disappointed or let the emotion of losing out on such a crush drive you to do something dumb when you are on the clock.

That crossed my mind this morning when NFL Network draft analyst Mike Mayock talked about what has become a growing sentiment — that all three high-end offensive tackles available: Luke Joeckel, Eric Fisher and Lane Johnson — will all be off the board by the time the Cardinals pick at No. 7. Let’s make this clear, no one knows for sure the Cards even like all three at that point, although it stands to reason they do. For a while, it was people thinking Fisher would be there and Joeckel wouldn’t. Then it was Fisher being gone and Johnson being the consideration. But there is a strong likelihood that the Chiefs take Joeckel at No. 1 (KC wants to trade Branden Albert) and the Eagles (No. 4) and the Lions (No. 5) both easily could take the other two tackles. Even if one lasts to No. 6, the next scenario could be the Browns trading out of No. 6 to the Chargers or Dolphins, both of whom need a left tackle like Johnson (pictured below).

Now, the Dolphins are talking with the Chiefs about the Albert trade, which would take them out of the mix. But the Chargers, picking 11th, could try to jump up (with Ken Whisenhunt’s new team potentially stealing a tackle out from under his old team.)

What does this all mean? Well, this is operating under the assumption the Cards are focusing on a tackle. That was the thought last year too and they took Michael Floyd over Riley Reiff, so there’s that. I don’t see the Cards trading up and surrendering a pick, although I’m not positive on that. If all the tackles are off the board in the top five, I could definitely see the Cards trying to trade down a little, although other than the tackles, I don’t know who would trade up. And again, if three tackles go off the board that early, someone is sitting there that hadn’t been expected. Will it be someone the Cards want?

– As long as we are talking about potential picks at No. 7, we have our annual mock draft contest ready for play right here. Hope you decide to take a crack at who you think the Cardinals will select.

LaneBlogUSE


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Posted in Blog | 67 Comments »


67 Responses to “Tackle situation shows why you don’t fall in love”

  1. By Eazy E on Apr 18, 2013 | Reply

    Hell, move up Cardinals! They miss out on a tackle or guard and Geno, and Cardinal nation is going crazy in the wrong way.#I know I am

  2. By JAKE on Apr 18, 2013 | Reply

    If the top 3 OT are gone that will give us a good shot at Dion Jordan or Ziggy

  3. By Ryan on Apr 18, 2013 | Reply

    I hate to burst everyone’s bubble but even if johnson is there at 7 I dont think the cards would take him, while he might be the best tackle prospect at that point he wont be the best player available.

  4. By djjackson81 on Apr 18, 2013 | Reply

    I don’t see the Cardals moving up sorry. At7 they are sitting just fine to get a great player hopefully it Chance Warmack or possibly if Geno goes in top 6 and all three tackles are gone then maybe Dion Jordan or Ziggy fall to AZ

  5. By aaron on Apr 18, 2013 | Reply

    The fail-safe is Warmack. If all the tackles go early and Dion doesn’t fall, just take warmack.

  6. By Andy Kw on Apr 18, 2013 | Reply

    There are only 5 players this team should be looking at in the first round:
    OT Eric Fisher, OT Lane Johnson, DL Dion Jordon, OG Chance Warmack, DL Ziggy Ansah.

  7. By Jason on Apr 18, 2013 | Reply

    What if this happens?

    1. KC-Joeckel
    2. JAX-Jordan
    3. OAK-Ansah
    4. PHI-Fisher
    5. DET-Johnson
    6. CLE-Milliner

    This is my nightmare. Not only did we miss out on the 6 players I like for us @7 almost all of the teams that would trade with us to jump Buffalo for Geno have already picked. Maybe the Jets? If they make the Revis trade we get the 13th pick and take Cooper/Warmack? I HOPE Floyd, Geno and/or Lotulelei are top 6 picks.

  8. By Bill L on Apr 18, 2013 | Reply

    Cards are lucky/unlucky that they have 2 glaring needs………a LT and a QB for the future(Palmer–2 years and out). If they do get the LT, I can see them going 8/8 next year…….talk about spending Picks to Move UP, this time for a QB….It will cost a Lot. The solution if the LTs are gone is to take the pick of the QBs this year, Let Carson rely on Levi and Massie…..and get the LT next year.

    I do expect ATLEAST one LT to be there……Players that could reasonably go in the TOP 6……….Lotuleili, Floyd, Jordan, Ansah, Milliner, Joeckel, Fisher, Johnson…….not to mention…..someone(Oak, Phi, Jax) could take Geno Smith.

    My advice to BA and Keim(esp Keim)…….spend the rest of the time left getting to know Smith and Barkley.

  9. By brad vargas on Apr 18, 2013 | Reply

    i think ziggy and dion will be gone along with the top two tackles i dont believe the cards like johnson at 7 he isnt the 7th best player in the draft i hope they trade down to the 12-17 range.

  10. By D on Apr 18, 2013 | Reply

    Like I have said million times, if all 3 left tackles are gone by 7, you look at the best available pass rusher and or trying to move down. If teams know AZ won’t take a QB, I don’t see another player a lower team would want enough to go up to get. IF they can’t get a left tackle in round 1—they should focus on a Right G in Round 2, because no tackle taken after round one would beat out Brown at left. They could draft a OT in round 2 for the right side, but it sounds like they want to see Massie develop there, so they would switch to finding a upgrade to the interior portion of the line .

    If this happens, watch for Warford from KY as a potential pick in round 2.

  11. By Jason on Apr 18, 2013 | Reply

    I’m not saying McShay and Kiper are always right, but…they are guys who watch tape and evaluate talent for a living, and in their twitter mock draft all 3 LT’s go in the top 5. It cracks me up that fans who post on blogs can unequivocally state that Lane Johnson isn’t worthy of the 7th pick…although, Bill Polian said he’d never take a LT in the top 5, that those picks were for touchdown scorers, pass rushers & turnover creators.

  12. By Eazy E on Apr 18, 2013 | Reply

    Y’all really think we should go after a pass rusher over moving up if we have to to get a QB or O Linemen???#That is so Asinine

  13. By Eazy E on Apr 18, 2013 | Reply

    Geno, Eric or Chance are my top 3.

  14. By John The Draft Guy on Apr 18, 2013 | Reply

    This year, Lane Johnson should be the pick. If he is gone, try to trade down. Dont take Warmack at #7. Warmack isn’t even the top guard on many boards. Cooper is.
    Ansah is a potential guy who should grow into a 285 pound RDE not OLB. I do Like Star but he won’t have an impact this year. So take Johnson or trade down. Players I really like in this draft besides Johnson are Kenny Vaccaro, Eric Reid, Xavier Rhodes, and Jamie Collins, and Tyler Eifert, as possible players to take by trading down. I really like Tavon Austin but we should pass on WRs this year and address OLB, Safety, Tackle and TE first.

    OK, I know the thumbs down are coming and I am going to get ripped. But hey, facts are facts.

    Last year I argued with several people regarding Riley Rieff. (you know who you are) With his short arms, I saw bust as LT.
    Funny, he is being moved to guard instead of LT and the Lions are faced with picking another LT.
    I Remember arguing that Decastro wasn’t the best player available and we should not take him. He started 3 games (injury) and was actually a disappointment in Preseason. Zieger for Cinncy ended up the better guard.

    I thought trade up to get Tannehill or trade down for Whitney Mercilus or Mike Adams. Lets see, Tannehill looks like a franchise QB, Mercilus had 6 sacks as a back up and is moved into starting line up this year at OLB. Adams had a Massie kind of year, up and down but started at RT and is expected to move to LT this year. ( I remember arguing about him with someone too) Hmm.

  15. By eric on Apr 18, 2013 | Reply

    still hope it is chance warmack…..a de might be a possibility to.

  16. By kauaicardsfan on Apr 18, 2013 | Reply

    Hi Darren,
    Just wanted to share this as far as our first round picks for the last 12 years,
    As you can see some of the names were total bombs while some like FItz was a great pick, So my point is no sense get all excited on getting the person you think may be good, Cause you never now until they hit the field?
    1999 L.J. Shelton Eastern Michigan Tackle
    2000 Thomas Jones Virginia Running Back
    2001 Leonard Davis Texas Tackle
    2002 Wendell Bryant Wisconsin Defensive Tackle
    2003 Bryant Johnson Penn State Wide Receiver
    2003 Calvin Pace Wake Forest Defensive End
    2004 Larry Fitzgerald Pittsburgh Wide Receiver
    2005 Antrel Rolle Miami Cornerback
    2006 Matt Leinart USC Quarterback
    2007 Levi Brown Penn State Left Tackle
    2008 Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie Tennessee State Cornerback
    2009 Beanie Wells Ohio State Running Back
    2010 Dan Williams Tennessee Defensive Tackle
    2011 Patrick Peterson LSU Cornerback
    2012 Michael Floyd Notre Dame Wide Receiver

  17. By D on Apr 18, 2013 | Reply

    funny how these fired coaches and gms are considered experts when they move to the TV side of things….if they are as smart and good as they are sold to us, wouldn’t they still be working for one of the 32 teams?

  18. By Jason on Apr 18, 2013 | Reply

    @JTDG

    Good points. I’ll be honest…I wanted Reiff last year as a RT with Levi ready to continue his strong second half @ LT. Is he still being moved to G after the Backus retirement and loss of Cherilus in FA? I think the jury should still be out on that one.

    I disagree about Ansah’s weight and position. While I think he CAN put on weight and play RDE in a 4-3 I think he can just as easily lose weight and play OLB 3-4. I think he is probably a better fit @ RDE but he has the physical tools to play standing up in my opinion. He is the last guy I would feel comfortable @7 (3 LT’s, Jordan, Milliner are the others). I’m all for the trading down route as well though.

  19. By John The Draft Guy on Apr 18, 2013 | Reply

    kauaicardsfan;

    Who was the best and worst picks on that list?

    Worst

    Wendall Bryant jumps out when Albert Haynesworth was the other pick (hey he had 4 good years- Bryant had zero) . To think Ed Reed was there to partner with ADub for 10 years. Got to love it. (can’t say I was yelling for Reed, but Bryant)

    For me, the worst has to be Antrel Rolle. With no real QB on the roster, Denny Green passed on Aaron Rodgers for Rolle. I cant think of a worse pick. Getting a washed up Warner who came back to life helped ease the pain.

    here are some more

    Leinart , Brown over AP, Thomas Jones over Urlacker. Pace and Johnson over T-Sizzle. Every fan saw these coming except the Leinart one. If you are honest with yourself, You thought it was a good pick. But the rest were easy. really bad drafting.

    The Good;
    Love having Larry.
    I would have traded down, Darren knows this, but PP is a good player.
    I liked DRC
    Dan Williams has been solid.

  20. By in fitz we trust on Apr 18, 2013 | Reply

    I wonder why we aren’t trying to trade for Brandon Albert? I read an article on NFL.com claiming the chiefs would take a second round pick… If that’s true, that doesn’t seem like a bad deal for a young pro bowl LT. Imagine if we gave up our second for Albert, and we land lane Johnson @ #7! We would have our stout tackles, Levi moves to G. That would just be epic…. Prolly won’t happen, but a great “what if” vision that doesn’t seem to far out imo.

  21. By John The Draft Guy on Apr 18, 2013 | Reply

    Jason,

    I kind of agree with Polian. Luckily we are picking 7th. So go with Johnson.

    As we talked about a few blogs back, I would not be surprised to see all 3 tackles go.

    Darren,

    I am not sure Philly goes LT. Jason Peters is there (grant it,he was injured all year) but Chip Kelly seems to be one of those Home Run kind of coaches. So, the star CB like Milliner, the boom or bust pass rusher like Jordon, or they trade down with SD .

    How about Tavon Austin on the same field with Desean Jackson and Macklin? Talk about running lanes for McCoy. Safeties would have to be back 15-20 yards. Then do the read option with Vick and run each play under 12 seconds or what ever his motto is. I think they could grab a RT in round two or three. How bout Long in round two at RT. Greatest show on turf part two?

    Dang, maybe I should go work for the Eagles. :) I hate the Eagles but , That sound exciting.

  22. By Corgon on Apr 18, 2013 | Reply

    One more time. There’s no way they’ll take the 3rd ranked OT with the 7th pick.

  23. By erik on Apr 18, 2013 | Reply

    I was hard on this new front office at first, but they seem to have done a great job so far. That being said, whether it is BPA or trading back, I’m sure they will make the right call. My opinion, while not popular, is that this team does not need a LT enough to reach for one they don’t favor. I would love to see a pass rusher as the first pick or maybe trade back and grab a safety.

    I have not paid attention to mock drafts past the 7th pick, so I don’t know if the guard Cooper is considered a first rounder or not, but it would be nice to just grab BPA and then draft Cooper in the 2nd. He may be gone then, I don’t know. All I know is I can’t wait until this time next week!

  24. By Darren Urban on Apr 18, 2013 | Reply

    In Fitz —

    RE: Albert

    Don’t see him being worth the contract he is going to demand.

  25. By Jason on Apr 18, 2013 | Reply

    Corgon —

    And you know this…..because?

  26. By Jason on Apr 18, 2013 | Reply

    It doesn’t matter if he’s the 3rd ranked tackle if he’s in the top 7 on their big board. For example: let’s say they have Johnson ranked at 6 on their big board and Warmack 8….do you think they pass on Johnson because he’s the 3rd rated tackle and Warmack is the 1st rated guard? And what if they have Johnson rated as the #1 tackle?

  27. By John The Draft Guy on Apr 18, 2013 | Reply

    Darren,

    i agree with you about Albert. What is his contract demands? Obviously high enough to get shipped out of KC potentially.

    Funny, Miami ships out Long because he wants too much and he is coming off injuries. Then they might trade for Albert who wants too much money for KC.

    As the NFL turns..

  28. By ored on Apr 18, 2013 | Reply

    “i don’t downgrade anyone based on the combine”,so it seems that the #1 pass rusher dropped most after a poor 40 time,but his seasons’ work is still best pass rusher.i think i would let go of the spinal stenosis thing,he’s been medically cleared and played with no problems.

    besides johnson will more than likely have growing pains his rookie year,i also would like to see a trade back,grab eifert who can also bolster line blocking and gives us a great 2 te look and huge passing game stability,look 3rd or 4th round for speed reciever,probably swopes or the or.st.kid,now with two 2nd round picks get a guard/tackle and safety,still lots of choices.

  29. By andystandsup on Apr 18, 2013 | Reply

    Another rumor making rounds is if the current scenario plays out without the Big 3 tackles being available is the selection of Star Lotulelei with him replacing Dan Williams and/or Darnell Dockett.

  30. By Josh on Apr 18, 2013 | Reply

    I hope the aforementioned tackles are gone that means we could draft one of the best defensive linemen in Floyd or star. Our run defense was terrible last year.
    I also like the idea do trading back a few spots if that is possible and draft a guy to replace one of our terrible guards, I.e. cooper

  31. By kauaicardsfan on Apr 18, 2013 | Reply

    @john the draft guy,
    Yep I agree, you bring up all great points, Yeah Bryant was one that really tanked.
    I also cringed when they passed on Urlacher, and T sizzle.

    I wanted to go back farther, had some real first round failures

    Some that jumps out
    1977 Steve Pisarkiewicz Missouri Quarterback
    1978 Steve Little Arkansas Kicker
    1984 Clyde Duncan Tennessee Wide Receiver
    1987 Kelly Stouffer Colorado State Quarterback

  32. By kauaicardsfan on Apr 18, 2013 | Reply

    Wow,
    This was before I was born but I know idea we drafted Broadway?
    1965 Joe Namath Alabama Quarterback

  33. By cardsalltheway on Apr 18, 2013 | Reply

    “That was the thought last year too and they took Michael Floyd over Riley Reiff”

    That still stupifies me. For that bumble we had D’Anthony Batiste playing because of injury and instead of Nate Potter(equally stupifying indeed!).

    Arizona Cardinals 1st Round pick: Tyler Eifert 6-5 250 (TE) Notre Dame.

  34. By Card Fan Gary on Apr 18, 2013 | Reply

    To all the people who keep saying trade back, who do you think would want to trade up? Many of the draft punditsI have read keep saying how this is a deep draft but it doesn’t have great difference makers……so back to my question….who do you think is willing to give up a second or third to move up for players that aren’t that much better than they can get later? It takes two to trade.

    If the 3rd tackle isn’t there then take a guard (Womack or Cooper) or even go after the best safety (the kid from Texas). All of them would improve our team. Just imagine if we could run the ball, then our stud receivers might not acually be double and triple covered.

    We just got to let the FO do their thing, lets wait until the season to decide if they are right or wrong.

    Go Cardinals

  35. By Credit Card on Apr 18, 2013 | Reply

    My fear the Cards might be the first team in NFL history to draft a long-snapper with their 7th over-all pick.

    I hope they trade down. We need more bodies. Dolphins are clueless, they have a 1st rounder and two second round picks. Trade down and pick up an extra second rounder. No huge drop in talent from the # 1 pick from the # 64 pick this year.

  36. By Jason on Apr 18, 2013 | Reply

    @Card Fan Gary

    I have stated before that our hope of trading down really depends on the draft and market. If Geno Smith is available when we pick @7 with Buffalo picking next we would be in a position to trade down if a team coveted Geno Smith. That is one example of a situation that could present itself.

  37. By ored on Apr 18, 2013 | Reply

    i like the eifert pick,just not at 7,the star pick sounds like it could work,allow the coaches some room for creativity,also would be nice to rotate in for williams and darnell and have him up to speed when darnell slows down.remember what darnell brought to the table when he was’nt fettered with hortons’ scheme.just keep that going and it will always be a team strength.fixing the o-line,qb,and running back this year,just need to make steps at ilb,safety,olb,and corner backs,just have to wait to see how that develops.

  38. By John The Draft Guy on Apr 19, 2013 | Reply

    cardsalltheway;

    If Rieff was so good, why is everyone saying the Lions take one of the tackles with the 5th pick? Maybe because he was a disappointment. He is destined to move into the guard spot.

    Card fan Gary,

    We dont know if there is a team that has fallen in love with a player . What if the rams want to jump up to get Tavon Austin ? What if Tampa wanted to jump over the Jets and get Ansah? It just takes one team to want someone and worry they are going to get picked before they get a chance.. It happens every year.

  39. By Corgon on Apr 19, 2013 | Reply

    Jason –

    Because I’m Steve Keim….but that could be a lie too :)

    Just an educated guess.
    I could tell you several reasons, but i’m not a scout, coach or anybody, so who cares what’s in my mind?
    I think there are a lots of better players out in this draft, than the 3rd ranked OT and since BA and Keim told us few times they don’t want to choose someone just because we need a body to that spot, it could be a safe guess.

    Wether they choose the 3rd ranked OT or anybody else, I’ll break out a beer for him and hope he’ll be the O/D player of the year.

  40. By Jason on Apr 19, 2013 | Reply

    @Corgon

    Awesome reply! That was classic….well done sir.

    To be clear, I have no problem with anyone giving opinions or preferences…it’s when people say things definitively that drives me crazy. Again, you keep rating him as the “3rd best tackle” (based on popular opinion, not the Cards scouting profile) and not where he is possibly ranked overall. Ratings are subjective…look at Mayock’s CB rankings, he has Dee Milliner as #2 while popular opinion has him #1 or ANYONE’S QB rankings! They’re all over the place. I appreciate your opinion that Johnson isn’t the pick @7…but who would you like?

    @JTDG

    I think you should pump the brakes on Reiff. He is still in play to start at tackle this year, and yes, even LT. The G talk started after they released Peterman because Backus had yet to announce his retirement and Cherilus was a FA and no one knew if he was going to re-sign. He played at LT last year in the Thanksgiving day game and handled himself well. You are taking the fact that the mocks have been trending Fisher @5 to mean he was a disappointment? Maybe Fisher will be the BPA? They did lose both starting tackles from last year so the need is there, maybe they go Milliner or Ansah both positions of need and could be telling to how they feel about Reiff. What if Reiff does move to guard and plays well? Is he still a disappointment? I stated before that I think the jury is still out on Reiff, lets see how the year draft/year plays out before calling him a disappointment.

  41. By Mike Ellingboe on Apr 19, 2013 | Reply

    @Jason,

    Well said, that evaluation was about as premature as it gets. Last I read, Detroit was saying he could play four positions, and even felt with a year of doing it, could be moved to Center.

  42. By KekoJones on Apr 19, 2013 | Reply

    Darren:

    Facing the scenario you painted where all the Top Tackles are gone. That means that CB Milliner dropped to us at Number 7.

    Doubt the Cards pass on having a Tadem of Petterson-Milliner in the same secondary, in the toughest NFL division.

  43. By Jason on Apr 19, 2013 | Reply

    @KekoJones

    I’m all for that pick! Unfortunately, its hard to see him getting past Detroit & Cleveland. Throw in the fact that we have 5 CB’s already and its a luxury pick, again a luxury pick I’m all for.

    @JTDG

    Here is a possible scenario:

    1. KC-Joeckel
    2. JAX-Jordan
    3. OAK-Floyd
    4. PHI-Lotulelei
    5. DET-Ansah
    6. CLE-Milliner
    7. AZ-Fisher!!!

    You can even say that there is a possibility Geno Smith goes before we pick…just wanted to throw out something different and plausible since most everyone is convinced we have zero shot at Fisher.

  44. By John The Draft Guy on Apr 19, 2013 | Reply

    Jason,

    I guess you could ask, Was Leonard Davis a disappointment?
    Even though he was an all-pro guard, he was drafted to be our LT.

    Maybe I am premature on Rieff. I was not impressed with him in last year’s draft.
    I feel that a right tackle, a guard, a center can be found in rounds other than round one. If you draft a tackle to be the LT, and he ends up a RT or guard, that is disappointing to me.

    I think that is why Denny Green kept trying to make Davis our LT. He was second overall. Yes, I know, if you get good players, who cares what round they are in? But , it is even more disappointing when you go for a tackle and they can’t get the job done they were picked to do.

    Reiff was picked to replace the aging Backus. Anything short of that goes against the Lions plans and forces them to choose someone else to do the job Reiff was suppose to do. The lions need Milliner, Rhodes, or Jordon and Ansah. They must get players to slow down the Packers, Bears, and vikings. They may be forced to take Fisher (as most mocks have) because of Reiff.

    Even if he plays guard or RT, that is disappointing.

  45. By John The Draft Guy on Apr 19, 2013 | Reply

    Mike Ellingboe,

    Maybe premature, but if he is not a LT, he is a disappointment to me.
    Let’s say we took Geno Smith at 7, he flopped as a QB but became a good slot wr, would you have been disappointed with the pick?

    Jason,
    Hey , I could even see this;

    1. KC – Fisher
    2. Jacksonville – Geno Smith
    3. Oakland – Floyd
    4. Philly – Milliner
    5. Detroit – Jordon
    6. Cleveland – Ansah
    7. AZ – Luke Joeckel

    I think the three teams that are key to us is;
    1. Oakland – will they trade out
    2. Detroit – Am I wrong and they like Reiff? Got to protect Stafford.
    3. Cleveland – Wants to trade out again. (remember Julio trade was Falcons/browns

    All three tackles could be gone or only one. I just cant see SD not making some kind of move. Rivers must get protection.

  46. By Jason on Apr 19, 2013 | Reply

    @JTDG

    Two problems with your argument: First, Davis was the #2 overall pick and secondly, he didn’t go on to be a pro bowl guard for us. Even if he did go on to be a pro bowl guard for us it would be disappointing because of where he was drafted…it just wouldn’t have hurt as bad.

    Riley Reiff was the 23rd pick which is a huge value if he pans out as a LT, a good value if he becomes a starting guard and a great value if he is a pro bowl guard. The truth is he hasn’t played much…you don’t know what he can do. You could still be right, I don’t know…I’m just saying he will be judged on what he does this year.

    On a different issue did you see where Bill Polian has Landry Jones as his #1 rated QB?

  47. By John The Draft Guy on Apr 19, 2013 | Reply

    Jason,

    No I did not see that. I kept saying Landry Jones was a first round pick and top QB. But then every board and scout said he is 3-5 rounder. I never could figure out why, but I thought I must be wrong.

    To me, protect him and give him a Dallas offense with Norv Turner, Emmitt ect, and I could see Troy Aikman in him. I really see Carson Palmer in him. But when every expert says you are wrong, you start questioning what you saw.

    Glad Polian saw something too.

  48. By Jason on Apr 19, 2013 | Reply

    @JTDG

    I knew you were a fan so I thought you’d like that. I am in the same boat as I saw him as a steal for us in round 2 before we traded for Palmer…I’d love to see us draft him in 4-5 round. It just shows you how varied scouting reports can be.

  49. By Mike Ellingboe on Apr 19, 2013 | Reply

    @JTDG,

    Not the best analogy you could have come up with, as it’s not uncommon for players to move around on the offensive line without being considered flops (i.e. – Allen in Dallas, Barrett Jones @ Bama, etc.). A QB having to switch to WR would be a straight-up admission that he has no ability to play where he was drafted. I do agree that if Reiff got moved inside to Guard solely because he couldn’t play LT (ala Robert Gallery) it would be a disappointment, but my point wasn’t to do with any of that, just pointing out your evaluation of last year’s draft was very premature, especially considering that the Lions have openly stated they aren’t even sure where they’ll put him, which makes sense if he’s as versatile as they claim, and we know their OL has a lot of holes in it right now. You made a lot of snap judgments on a few others as well. Most experts are in agreement that you don’t judge a draft for three years.

    Give it time, my friend. It may be you’ll be proved right on all of it, but until then I enjoy the back and forth with you and a few of the other guys who follow the draft. Takes the boredom out of the off-season. No fun debating with someone you’re in complete agreement with, and I try very hard to follow the adage of not arguing with a fool, as people may not be able to tell the difference. Your opinions are respected, if not always agreed with (a sentiment I’m going to guess you can relate to?).

  50. By John The Draft Guy on Apr 19, 2013 | Reply

    Jason,

    Sometimes, when there is so little buzz on someone, teams are trying not to tip their hand. Landry Jones on draft day may be a big surprise.

    When the season ended, I thought teams like buffalo, might trade back into the first round to get him.

    Than no talk. Crickets cherping. Mayock has him rated #5 and Polien has him #1.
    Maybe I should follow Keims advise and just go off the tape.

  51. By Jason on Apr 20, 2013 | Reply

    @JTDG & Mike

    I think the examples you keep coming up with regarding Reiff aren’t working. Gallery and Davis were drafted in the top 2 of their draft classes! At that pick you are selecting your franchise LT and if he doesn’t work out as that “guy” it is a disappointment. Reiff was selected @23 so it was a safe gamble for a team who needed depth for their oline and an eventual successor to Backus. At 23 if he becomes a starter you’re satisfied, a pro bowl player you’re happy, a guy who can be your LT and you’re ecstatic. Different situations in my opinion.

  52. By Mike Ellingboe on Apr 20, 2013 | Reply

    @Jason,

    Just used Gallery as an example of guy who clearly couldn’t cut it at LT, something we don’t yet know about Reiff (even some reports today saying they could go guard at #5 – as much as I doubt it). Not disagreeing with your point, but should add that anybody picked in round 1, whether 1 or 32, is going to carry a certain expectation with that. Safe picks/depth picks usually aren’t that early, but yes, I agree the expectation for the top 2 is a different thing altogether.

    He does seem to be following a remarkably similar path as his predecessor at Iowa.

  53. By Mike Ellingboe on Apr 20, 2013 | Reply

    A quick follow-up, since it will cause some confusion, I wasn’t talking Gallery (although again, it can’t be ruled out either). Was referring to Bulaga.

  54. By John The Draft Guy on Apr 20, 2013 | Reply

    Mike and Jason,

    OK, OK, I just am not impressed with the guy coming out of college and I still am not. Maybe he proves I am wrong. Lion fans sure hope so.

    One thing though, moving a guy around the oline like Allen of Barrett is a different thing. They were picked to be guards or centers who can play multiple spots. Reiff is a LT who might need to be moved to another spot.

    The Lions website has this;
    If the Lions were to draft Joeckel or Fisher, Reiff could shift to right guard, a position that is currently a question mark along the offensive line.

    When you think of the tackles drafted after him, Cordy Glenn, J. Martin, M. Schwartz, Mike Adams, heck even Bobbie Massie, who all started at tackle last year, and will do so again this year, I would be disappointed with the pick.

    Can you imagine the cards took him at 13?

  55. By Jason on Apr 20, 2013 | Reply

    @Mike

    Bulaga is a much better example. He was picked in the 20’s and had the same T-Rex arm syndrome as Reiff. GB is more than happy that they have a competent RT…not a LT, not a pro bowl player just a solid RT. I agree with you Reiff may still start at LT for Detroit this year…we don’t know. My point is even if he only becomes a competent starter he was a good pick. I think JTDG’s main argument is that he isn’t an elite LT and I agree with him. Had Reiff been picked top 10 then the expectation would be he would be your franchise LT…that’s the expectation for an offensive lineman picked that high. At 23 it isn’t the same expectation.

  56. By Jason on Apr 20, 2013 | Reply

    As far as drafting safe picks/depth picks that early I think it’s a team by team decision…I’m sure when he fell to 23 he was the best player on their board and while not a need that year Backus was on the back end of his career.

  57. By Jason on Apr 20, 2013 | Reply

    John,

    So, we’ve beaten this horse into hamburger meat but…

    You say those tackles are better, but Reiff hasnt played…what are you using as a comparison? Its not his fault he was drafted by a team with solid veterans at both tackle spots. The article stating he could shift to guard I assume is with the assumption they draft a LT top 5 (a draft pick you expect to be a franchise LT) in which case it makes sense he moves. As of now he has only played tackle so he hasn’t moved anywhere yet, its all conjecture and a possible smoke screen by the team. You’re assuming if we took Reiff at 13 that he would have failed (I assume its because you weren’t/aren’t a fan) but, he might have solidified our line and changed our season. Just a thought. An article I read earlier

    http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcnorth/post/_/id/55233/on-the-lions-need-for-immediate-impact

  58. By Brett on Apr 20, 2013 | Reply

    If all three are off the board, I would trade down I. The mid teens, pick up Kenny Vacarro and then draft an interior lineman in the second and if we have another 2 round pick, draft Matt Barkley. This is and ideal scenario and maybe better than just drafting Lane Johnson.

    Kenny Vacarro is the perfect replacement for A-Dub.

  59. By Corgon on Apr 21, 2013 | Reply

    @ Jason

    It’s tricky. I has to say Fisher, but i really doubt he’ll be available. So it depends who will be on the board. I think LJ will be there. Like the Cards the others as well will reach out for other prospects. Yes you’re right it’s subjective and i don’t know anyones 120list but i assume LJ is the 3rd ranked almost everywhere.
    Soooooooooo realisticly at 7 I’d like to see Chance Warmack. If he’s not there, then Jarvis Jones, but I’d be suprised if he’ll be selected before us.

    My dream draft would be:
    A trade down and still nab Warmack and somehow grab TE Zach Ertz with the second pick. I’m sure we have to move up zo be able to, but this is where our trade down from 7 step in :)
    With Warmack in the wall and a Housler-Ertz set, our running game woud be ready to go and the catching group would be awesome. BigRed11-Roberts-Floyd-Housler-Ertz…this is where Ron Wolfley would say: Wooooooow…just imagine Carson Palmer’s situation guys…just wow :)
    And the sugar on top would be if somehow we could manage to grab the Raiders’s 2014 first pick. Now that will be a really valuable one in his time…ok, I know, but hey it a dream draft :)

  60. By Jason on Apr 21, 2013 | Reply

    @Brett

    That is great plan and I would be on board if that’s the way it plays out. My only difference would be to grab one of the guards in round 1 followed by a S or OLB. QB is an interesting thought

  61. By Jason on Apr 21, 2013 | Reply

    @Corgon

    That’s a plan. I think you’re obsessed with Johnson being the 3rd rated T. The only ranking that matters is the overall ranking. As far as TE I don’t see it happening early….here’s an interesting article about the issue.

    http://www.revengeofthebirds.com/2013/4/17/4232056/bruce-arians-the-tight-end-and-other-myths

  62. By Corgon on Apr 21, 2013 | Reply

    @ Jason

    Yeah it seams :) Either way this draft will be an interesting one.

    The TE spot isn’t a glaring need, but that’s the beauty of it. Ertz is simply too good to pass on him if he’ll be there when we’ll be on the clock for the second time. Of course there are several other players who too good to pass on them, but I’d be happy if the Cards draft him. Unfortunately I don’t see this version to come true.

    The article is a good one. I also commented on this blog about a month ago that the Sherminator has good hands. If BA could find him a place in his O, that would be nice. I like the kid.
    I’d like Kasa in the 4-5th round as well.

  63. By John The Draft Guy on Apr 21, 2013 | Reply

    Jason,

    Your right we have beat this to death. And just think, he isn’t even a cardinal!

    The answer to your question is, the Lions lost both their tackles yet the Lions website says the lions want Fisher/Joeckel and Reiff will be a guard. Why not RT??
    That is why I am saying the other tackles look better. Also, Reiff started 8 games. That is a pretty good look at a guy.

    But again, I’ll say lets see how it plays out. Maybe the Lions go Milliner and put Reiff at LT

  64. By Jason on Apr 21, 2013 | Reply

    @JTDG

    Do you have that link? The only articles I’ve read are about his versatility and ability to move to guard. I have yet to see anything that says he IS moving to guard. I stick to my original point either way though: if he becomes a solid starter at guard he was worth the gamble.

  65. By card62 on Apr 21, 2013 | Reply

    I just want 2 offensive linemen drafted with our top 3 picks and would not mind if we drafted 3 with our first 4 picks. I have followed our team realistically for years and our OL right now is horrible, was horrible last year, and has been horrible for years. I still think Levi Brown would make a great guard, but is and will always be a fair to poor tackle. I ask this question before and will ask again. Name me the last Cardinal OL we drafted that has been a pro bowl starter?

    I think Palmer was the best we could do at QB this year, but we must give him a good line and a running game for him to be successful.

    To John the Draft Guy
    Do you consider Johnson the best tackle in the draft or just the one most likely to be on the board when we are picking? This draft is deep in lineman and I want 2 tackles for our Cardinals so who is the second tackle you would take and in what round would you draft him?

    I love John Simon DL with Ohio State. Great motor, great teammate, great guy off the field. I hope we pick him up somewhere in the draft. What do you think of his game?

    Go Cards and I do love watching the draft.

  66. By Mike Ellingboe on Apr 22, 2013 | Reply

    @JTDG,

    Could I imagine the Cards taking him at #13? It wasn’t my first choice, but with Bastiste being our back-up at the time, in hindsight I think it would have been more productive than Floyd and probably would have kept Kolb upright for a least a few more weeks. Obviously, saying someone would have been a better option than Batiste is about as backhanded as a compliment gets. I still think we should have gone with DeCastro but time will tell on all this.

    Come hell or high water, I’ll keep hoping to see this organization put some emphasis on establishing a run game. No AP, no DeCastro, I’m probably grasping at straws hoping for Warmack, they thought Davis was too expensive, calling Levi “elite” at LT when he’d be a monster inside, saying Deuce was too fat (granted, but at least he moved people) FA signings of Colledge and Snyder (patchwork at it’s finest), etc., etc., etc. If they’d just give it a try they’d find that productivity at QB wouldn’t require a Hall-of-Famer.

    Again, we’ll see in a few days now.

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