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Arians sends penalties video to league

Posted by Darren Urban on December 2, 2013 – 2:20 pm

Bruce Arians opened his press conference today saying he was going to follow league protocol and send video examples into the league on plays with which the Cards questioned the penalties called or not called. This is not unique; Teams across the league often do it. “There were obviously problems in the ball game,” Arians said. “There is a protocol to follow. We followed the protocol.

“(NFL VP of officiating) Dean Blandino does a great job being honest on the calls. We will follow up more with the answers … later.”

Again, there is no real reason to dwell on it. It doesn’t make much difference. Even if the NFL fessed up (privately of course) that mistakes were made, it does not change the result. Arians knows this. He reiterated the Cardinals “regressed” back to the team that turned the ball over too much early in the year. He also stressed the Cardinals better worry not about penalties but about winning a division game for the first time in a long time against the Rams. That message was repeated by the players in the locker room Monday.

(For a breakdown of the officiating, here is a story today from MMQB.com talking about Eagles-Cardinals. I agree with Greg Bedard, which is that bad calls are going to happen and every team must deal with it. But for it to be inconsistent in a relatively short period of time — in this case, the last six minutes or so in the game — can be maddening.)

Arians said the Cardinals sent in “about 15″ plays for the league to look at. He also said “I’ve already gotten most of the answers. I got them before I left the locker room (Sunday.)” Arians added those answers came “from New York,” i.e. the league office. And he admitted that he did not get any satisfaction from those answers. “I just get madder,” Arians said.

– Looking forward a couple of weeks, the Cardinals’ game in Tennessee has been moved to the late TV window, which means it will now start at 2:25 p.m. Arizona time instead of 11 a.m. Arizona time. (That’s now a 3:25 p.m. kickoff in Tennessee.) We will see if that makes a difference to the way the Cards start the game.

– The only injuries of note, Arians said, were the shoulder of linebacker Kevin Minter and the knee of running back Andre Ellington (which of course caused him to miss the game). Both players are day-to-day, Arians said.

INTnoUSE


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Posted in Blog | 35 Comments »


35 Responses to “Arians sends penalties video to league”

  1. By John A. on Dec 2, 2013 | Reply

    Wait. Didn’t this happen four years ago with Cardinals @Titans?

  2. By Paul Liccardi on Dec 2, 2013 | Reply

    I agree with coach, although the penalties were a travesty you cant turn the ball over like that and win games, and you cant keep expecting your qb to keep taking beatings like that

  3. By Red Dead Redemption on Dec 2, 2013 | Reply

    The NFL has been turning into the WWE for awhile, and this game is a perfect example of it.
    You are rooting for your favorite wrestler, but somehow the Ref gets knocked down. The other wrestler picks up the ring bell when the Ref is out of it, hits the wrestler you are rooting for in the head with it.
    Suddenly the Ref comes to, and the cheating wrestler pins the wrestler you were rooting for, the Ref sees it and makes the count.
    Your wrestler loses.

    However that is written, scripted fun, with elements of playful trolling.
    The NFL, is supposed to be a real competition, where players determine the results.
    Not just with the Cardinals, though they have some good cases of it, but around the league it feels just as scripted as WWE with the ref calls going on.

    Nothing really happens to Refs that make bad calls, “Sorry I missed the call”, great, when a player makes a mistake on the field in the leagues eyes. They are suspended, or fined. Refs rarely are, maybe they don’t get to do some playoff games or a Super bowl. That’s it.

    The “Surrendering himself” call, the illegal blocks in the back, on the INT return in the super bowl, the Adrian Wilson roughing the kicker. Just to name a few.

    Me personally? I would have taken off my helmet yesterday or the call, the ended the game and the Eagles, got to run the clock out.
    I would have cussed at the refs, told them, they rigged this for a big market team, and got thrown out. It was a loss anyway, and a suspension wouldn’t have happened. Only a fine. All it would have done was drawn national attention to it.

    All that said? The Refs weren’t the only reason we lost, sure they sealed the coffin. Carson Palmer lost the game, combined with the play of Powers.
    Carson also hasn’t been playing as well as people think, he should have thrown three INTs in the colts game that were dropped, and another in the Jags game.

    He isn’t a playoff winning QB.

  4. By John The Draft Guy on Dec 2, 2013 | Reply

    Paul Liccardi,

    I get what you are saying but it is not true. If that horrible call on HB isn’t called, PP’s pick counts and we are at the least in FG range with the chance to move in for a game winning TD.

    You can turn over the ball and win. Not on a consistent manner but in this case, it took a horrible call and the turnovers to help us lose.

    As I had been saying and Darren mentioned, the refs let the DBs play physical all game as I watched several WRs for both teams complain to the refs. But to have that flag come in after the pick on such a ticky tacky play, is at best suspicious.

  5. By Ottis Anderson Fan on Dec 2, 2013 | Reply

    What totally blows my mind is the number of times a play under official review — with all the video evidence pointing to a very clear decision to be made as to if the on-field call is to be upheld or overturned — produces a ruling that is in total contradiction of the very same video evidence that fans see and officials use to make the call. It happens WAY too often — I’d actually say it’s commonplace — and there are plenty of game broadcasters to back me up on that point.

    The contradiction between the video evidence and the replay ruling can be so striking that it’s hard for one not to question the integrity of the game.

    Darren – Can replay officials be disciplined for making the wrong call after reviewing a play?

  6. By Ottis Anderson Fan on Dec 2, 2013 | Reply

    I bet all those replacement referees out there from the 2012 season are having a good laugh over the horrid officiating this year. They certainly deserve one. They’re hardly any worse than the “professionals” who replaced them.

  7. By Darren Urban on Dec 2, 2013 | Reply

    Ottis —

    RE: Replay

    The official making the determination on replay is the referee. The “replay official” is just there to make sure plays are reviewed.

  8. By Scott H on Dec 2, 2013 | Reply

    Well, NOT quite the Monday I was hoping for, but…questionable calls aside, I have to give the Eagles credit. They played the better game. It’s been a few weeks since this has been an issue, but I have to believe that during their bye, Chip Kelly must have taken note of how the cardinals have been hurt by the TE position this year and made thet a major component of the game plan. And why not? Seems a pretty good line of attack to me. Most of the damage Foles has done in recent weeks has been done with the WR’s, much less with the TE’s. I give Kelly credit for attacking what is a weakness of our defense and I give Foles and their offense credit for executing.

    This loss just flat out hurts. To lose a game during a week when the Cowboys, Lions, Panthers, 49ers, and Eagles ( obviously ) all won is a killer. Carolina might be out of reach for good at this point and the 49ers are rounding into form at the right time. AND we just allowed the Eagles to pull even WITH a head-to-head win in hand. Not good….

  9. By Macht on Dec 2, 2013 | Reply

    “I just get madder,” Arians said.

    My exact emotion. We are not out yet, believe!

  10. By Mike G on Dec 2, 2013 | Reply

    Hey Darren–Hope all is cool! Tough game for the Card’s yesterday. The officiating throughout the league seems to be getting worse. Many games this year–some of these calls have you scratching your head. I think the problem is referee accountability. By having all these different rules and reviews – I feel the refs don’t have to always make the right call because they can rely on a replay to correct their mistake. In the old days the referees usually swallowed the whistle toward the end of the game unless the penalty was very blatant. The game was determined by the players on the field and not the zebras. I wish the NFL never implemented that illegal contact penalty– that penalty just opened up a can of worms for the league and set the game up for the officials up to fail.

  11. By azfaninwa on Dec 2, 2013 | Reply

    Off topic but just wanted to take a moment to thank the staff of AZ Cardinals for constantly improving the site and mobile app (Don’t tweet.. sorry). It seems to get better every year and this year especially (which is timely) I’ve noticed. The consistent weekly pieces (opposing views is one of my favorites) provide a great rhythm that keeps me checking in. The content seems ‘insider’ which is great but I’ve appreciated the sprinkling of league wide perspective and realism. I’m a true Cards fan so I’m wired to be cautiously optimistic and I follow the whole league. Anyway… verbal back pat. We all have jobs. We aren’t all good at them. Thanks for all you do.

  12. By steve K on Dec 2, 2013 | Reply

    I recall when the NBA officiating was horrible and I quit my die hard watching. The next year they caught an official for fixing games. I’m not saying that’s what is happening here but my last die hard sport has just died. I’m done since it doesn’t matter to the NFL about bad officiating. Believe me it’s not limited to the Cardinals. It is so widely happening on bad calls but more on non-calls. So enjoy your sport and thank the players for their efforts but don’t thank the NFL.

  13. By grabling on Dec 2, 2013 | Reply

    Almost eliminated of the playoffs!!

  14. By Canadian Redbird on Dec 2, 2013 | Reply

    Darren – On the PP interception, is there any way of determining whether the flag thrown on Mathieu’s penalty was before or after the actual interception by Peterson? If in fact it was thrown after the interception, then there’s possible reason to doubt the integrity of the official. Plus was it the same official who tagged Shawnessy with the hold. On that same play Foles had his non throwing arm in Matt’s face mask which is a penalty in most NFL rule books.

    Like another blogger, everyone in a game both players, coaches ( Tomlin ), and officials should be held accountable for their actions. The result will not change the outcome of the game however it certainly will place the appropriate party on notice.Look forward to your thoughts.

  15. By Patrick Hoog aka Don't Take Losses on Dec 2, 2013 | Reply

    NO playing like a bunch of pansies at Seattle tonite, btw, fwiw…

  16. By Credit Card on Dec 2, 2013 | Reply

    15 plays — wow! in a normal NFL game there is less than 150 total plays. This means Arians believed that 10% of the calls were incorrect. I’m sure Chip Kelly submitted a similar amount. Meaning 15-20% were considered incorrect calls. Simply unbelievable. A middle school game should have a better error rate than 15-20%. My goodness, this is the highest level for this sport, any thing over a 1-2% error rate s/b unacceptable to the league.

    This is not just bad officiating, this crew did a real stinker of a job.

    Three calls really stick out in my mind. The pass to Golden whereby he tried to catch the ball on the backside of the Eagle CB’s helmet. Whereby the CB was tackling Golden before he touched the ball, w/o even attempting to look for the ball. The holding call on Mathieu during the Peterson interception, and the holding call on Matt Shannesey at the end of the game. All of them were totally from left field. All appeared to be make-up type calls or the ref was thinking of throwing it before the play even began.

    The call on Shannesey will go down as legendary. I don’t think he did anything wrong, even in the slightest. He made contact at the line of scrimmage to a player that was blocking him.

  17. By Credit Card on Dec 2, 2013 | Reply

    15 plays — wow! in a normal NFL game there is less than 150 total plays. This means Arians believed that 10% of the calls were incorrect. I’m sure Chip Kelly submitted a similar amount. Meaning 15-20% were considered incorrect calls. Simply unbelievable. A middle school game should have a better error rate than 15-20%. My goodness, this is the highest level for this sport, any thing over a 1-2% error rate s/b unacceptable to the league.

    This is not just bad officiating, this crew did a real stinker of a job.

    Three calls really stick out in my mind. The pass to Golden whereby he tried to catch the ball on the backside of the Eagle CB’s helmet. Whereby the CB was tackling Golden before he touched the ball, w/o even attempting to look for the ball. The holding call on Mathieu during the Peterson interception, and the holding call on Matt Shannesey at the end of the game. All of them were totally from left field. All appeared to be make-up type calls or the ref was thinking of throwing it before the play even began.

  18. By johnnybluenose on Dec 2, 2013 | Reply

    Half-time, Monday Night Football. Seahawks are very impressive in all respects. They are intense and cold-hearted and will be very hard to beat. I don’t hear a lot of talk about Russell Wilson for MVP but he would get my vote.

  19. By georgiebird on Dec 2, 2013 | Reply

    All the talk about the officiating is justified and it was good that BA followed league protocol.
    But BA’s top priority is to figure out why the Cards were behind 24-7 with only 4+ minutes gone in the 3rd quarter. He may find out that every unit on the team has to play better.

  20. By cards62 on Dec 2, 2013 | Reply

    To johnnybluenose and other cards fans

    I was really looking forward to watching a great game tonight Seahawks vs Saints, but it was not a game as Seattle is very impressive and Seattle totally dominated the Saints.

    Rams dline especially Quinn really worry me. Hope we leave someone in to help block all game.

    Hope our special team have a great game. Would be nice to see our coverage teams shut them down and a long punt return and kickoff return will be nice.

    Go Cards beat the Rams.

  21. By Gilbert on Dec 2, 2013 | Reply

    The turnovers the interceptions are on Palmer Not the strip that was the lo line
    Palmer didn’t have a good game early. That falls on him. Some games the Cards will dominate others they have to fight for every yard. This is one of those games that it wasn’t easy. But like all things in life get up and learn and move on. If we live with regrets and always looking back we will ever reach our destiny

  22. By Bay Area Bad Boy on Dec 2, 2013 | Reply

    BA can complain all he likes. It still does not make up for the fact that Carson Palmer was responsible for 3 turnovers and he did not suit up the only speed back he had available, he got out coached and he had to eat crow for under estimating the eagles offense. He should have kept his big cocky mouth shut and spoke after the win. But no. Big mouth BA had to open his fat trap. Now one loss later, he is looking for answers. The team did not get out played. and considering Carson Palmer’s give aways, we still should have won. We are a better team than the Eagles. But enough crying over spilt milk. BA SHUT YOUR TRAP and coach !!!!!. The Rams are next and I totally and completely blame that loss on the coaching staff. Yes I am a football coach. No I am not an NFL coach, but the basic principals of coaching are the same. Our Staff blew it. period. Suck it up and let’s get ready for the Rams. and if Palmer throws two more Int’s. Bench his sorry ass and send a message to the entire team !!!!! It’s playoff time and it’s no time to be caring about people’s feelings. Win or go home. Enough said. On no. Cardinal Fans don’t have to agree with me. But I see what I see and I speak my mind. Now let go !!! I’m pumped. The Rams are first on the list.

  23. By louis on Dec 3, 2013 | Reply

    wake up and smell t he coffee again we can/t win a big game stop talking playoffs we are finish this year we need to find players and coaches who knows how to win and takes us to the next step into the playoffs and win a superbowl.

  24. By Peter in Canada on Dec 3, 2013 | Reply

    @John A. Yes but there is a difference. Checkdown Leinart was the QB that day and I was biting my finger nails right from the start. We were way too conservative and I knew we would eventually lose and we did because the game is 60 minutes not 58. On a brighter note we will play to win this year.

    @georgiebird You are right on all counts. If we had played better in the first 35 minutes it would have been Philadelphia trying to come from behind not us. I still think we are the better team but we just didn’t play like it. I still like the fact we are a better team than last year and hopefully we will be even better next year.

  25. By clssylssy on Dec 3, 2013 | Reply

    Glad the Cards continue to exercise good judgement in following protocol for addressing their grievances with the refs. Will it matter? In the present, I don’t think so, with no actual resolution alternative, it seems like an empty exercise in futility. However, it doesn’t hurt to have a good rapport with the powers at be rather than reacting like a bunch of hot headed children. At the same time, these things need to be constantly pointed out to the league and not swept under the rug, Hopefully, with enough pressure on the Rule’s Committee they will be forced to make some much needed changes in the off season and this is where pressure from the Owners would be useful. I have a feeling other owners do not hesitate to give the Commissioner an ear full but am not sure how Mr. Bidwell stands up; being a lawyer I would hope he would be skilled at presenting his case and would back BA up. The Cards game was but one of many around the league where again the officials made some real egregious mistakes and the fate of teams’ futures (and sometimes coaching jobs and player contracts) were at stake. Whenever any kind of call is “final” and unchallengable, it opens the door to corruption while creating discord on the field and sometimes fighting in the and animosity between fans which only serves to erode the sport and fan experience. To give so much power and final say to one individual without any way to “unring the final bell” is kind of like the death penalty and needs to be changed before fans lose interest in paying inflated prices to see games being determined by the zebras rather than the play on the field. When ticket sales start plummeting, I have a feeling we may start hearing talk of reform!

  26. By Kevin S Mesa on Dec 3, 2013 | Reply

    I agree Clssylssy, it won’t matter in the short term, but in the long term, the officials need to be held accountable, and the bad ones need to be rotated out… It’s not like there aren’t hundreds of other guys willing to do the job. I mean, you see these same guys out there week after week to the point where we all know their names… Ed Hochuli, Jeff Triplette, etc. Some of the calls in the Cardinals game were bad, but what the Triplette crew did on the Sunday night game with changing the downs was inexplicable, as was Triplette’s later attempted justification of saying that since the Redskins were out of timeouts he didn’t want to stop the clock. Huh? Since when do you not stop the clock to review something that needs to be reviewed, whether it be a questionable call or a measurement? If the argument is that everyone knew he was well short and that no measurement was needed, well, tell that to the guy who was signaling to move the chains.

    I think NFL officials have a nearly impossible job. I think a large part of the reason it seems the officiating is getting worse is that TV is getting better — more cameras, more angles, more isolation of receivers showing us when a penalty should’ve been called that wasn’t (or shouldn’t have been called, but was). But it does appear that we’ve had a spate of particularly bad officiating recently. I don’t have a solution, but for all the whining about the replacement refs, except for one really bad call in the Seahawks-Packers game, I don’t think they were that much worse than what we’re seeing now, which tells me the league should be more aggressive about getting rid of the refs who screw up. They are all supposedly graded after every game… are those grades made public, and if not, why not?

  27. By clssylssy on Dec 3, 2013 | Reply

    You are right on Kevin and I agree that reffing isn’t a glamorous job or one I would want. HOWEVER, I do believe in accountability and under the current system the referees are not held to the same standard as players, coaches, franchises–there is no system for finding these officials accountable. I can think of no other situation where this climate exists? Football has come along way with all of the technology involved with media coverage, close ups, replays, etc; it seems that officiating should be able to utilitze some of this technology to keep pace with the times. The situations with the Redskins was ludicrous and seemed to be a case of arrogance and omnipotence on the part of the referee which goes on to a certain degree every week. While football was once a simple, down in the dirt, smashmouth, contact sport, it is now a multibillion dollar industry throughout our nation, ever expanding and with big money changing hands. Refs need to be fined, suspended and banned just like the players as they are the gatekeepers of the rules on the field and should lead by example.

  28. By Scott H on Dec 3, 2013 | Reply

    Geez…anyone see the story on NFL.com about how Eagles CB Cary Williams ( pretty much a jack-ass and an extremely average player ) responded to hearing about BA sending the tapes to the NFL for explanation? Ya know…some people should just keep their mouths shut when they have nothing intelligent to say. And I don’t think this Cary Williams is capable of saying ANYTHING intelligent. What an idiot.

    It’s the kind of thing that makes me glad and proud to have class acts like Larry Fitzgerald weaing Cardinals red. I swear, I wish we could play the eagles again right now…

  29. By Scott H on Dec 3, 2013 | Reply

    Gotta say, I liked BA from the start and I am liking him more as we go. He is showing that what he was able to do with the Colts last year was no fluke. While it was frustrating to watch all the other coaching vacancies getting filled last year while the Cardinals appeared to be floundering in in-decision, I DID feel that perhaps the Cardinals ended up getting the best guy when they got Arians. And he has validated that feeling.

    We have not solved our QB of the future problem but we definitely solved the coach of the future problem!

    I’m glad BA is here. And now that tapes have been sent to the NFL, let’s move on and get focused on the Rams.

  30. By CORMAC on Dec 4, 2013 | Reply

    They should allow challenge flags on penalty calls. Of course that would not stop the non-call issue, but would help with bad calls. The refs should have at least two of their own red flags, so that they can go to film if they feel its not clear to them. It would take longer , but who cares.

  31. By Kevin S Mesa on Dec 4, 2013 | Reply

    Cormac, I don’t see how you can have challenges on penalty calls but not have challenges on non-calls… And the reality is that on penalties, the refs should only call something they actually see, so there should never be a penalty called if there wasn’t one, only non-penalties that are missed… Just like the NBA — it ticks me off when the ref calls a foul because he assumes contact was made instead of actually seeing the contact. In any case, since penalties are judgment calls — not something objectively verifiable like whether the guy got both feet down or whether the ball hit the ground before a catch — I don’t see how you can make them subject to review without undermining the whole system. (And yes, I realize some of the other reviewable plays still involve judgment — but the judgment is about a fact (did the guy get his foot down), not an opinion (was that pass interference)?

  32. By Kevin S Mesa on Dec 4, 2013 | Reply

    Scott H —

    Thanks for your comments on BA. I do seem to recall you were one of the people complaining the loudest as guys like Mike McCoy took jobs elsewhere.

  33. By ryan on Dec 4, 2013 | Reply

    red dead redemption

    you should stick to fake wrestling. you obviously know more about that than football

  34. By Scott H on Dec 4, 2013 | Reply

    Kevin S Mesa –

    Perhaps I was complaining at the time but I know that Mike McCoy was mentioned nowhere in those complaints! I WAS very un-happy that Lovie Smith was not even being considered ( or so it seemed ), even MORE un-happy when Horton ended up leaving. Regarding the latter, I don’t think I was alone.

    But Arians and Bowles have worked out very well and the season has already been more of a success than I believed it would be.

    BUT let’s not let a winning record and being in the playoff race divert our attention from the fact that there is still a QB issue to be resolved. I really don’t think going all-in with Carson Palmer for the next few years and having nothing ready to go when that comes to an end is the way to go. We saw how that went after Warner decided to hang it up and…well, does anyone really want to endure another Matt Leinart vs Derek Anderson training camp??? Please. Not again.

  35. By clssylssy on Dec 6, 2013 | Reply

    At some I seem to remember the BA as saying NOBODY’S job was safe and I never got the impression that Carson Palmer was being considered a longterm answer at the QB position. I personally think he has worked out better than anticipated and could see this team going another year with him as a starter while a rookie was being brought up…or not, if there isn’t anybody that sets the world on fire in the draft. We have all seen what happens when over-hyped Heisman trophy winners have a teams future riding on them only to discover that success at the college level doesn’t always translate to the NFL. Occasionally, a Russell Wilson or a Colin Kaepernick comes along but usually it takes them a couple years to hit their stride as in the case of Foles, Newton, Tannehill, Stafford, etc. We need to focus on our linemen and get some marquis level TEs to get us to the next level. Of course, we will probably not even see two thirds of the current roster back and will have to start from scratch all over again!

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