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A visit doesn’t mean an extended stay

Posted by Darren Urban on April 10, 2014 – 3:44 pm

The Cardinals, like every team, have a bunch of draft-eligible players visit this time of year. You can have up to 30 come to the team facility, and that doesn’t count players from local colleges or who already live in the area, nor does it count any private workouts a coach or a front-office exec might have by flying out to meet a player. This is, of course, on top of pro days and the combine, where teams have 15 minutes to meet with up to 60 players.

So what does it mean when a player visits Tempe before the draft? Odds are, nothing.

To be sure, players are coming through. (I ran into a couple downstairs the other day. No, I have no idea who they were.) But visits have never meant a ton to me. I remember Levi Brown saying he had no idea the Cards were going to draft him because they hadn’t talked to him beforehand. (No snide remarks, please.) If you just do the math — 25 or 30 visits, plus all the combine guys, plus private workouts, like the one recently by Bruce Arians of Virginia Tech QB Logan Thomas that was put out there publicly by the school — that’s at least, what 65 or 70 (assuming possible duplicates)? All that for six draft picks, at least as of right now.

The Big Lead did an interesting article this morning about the topic. When you look at all the guys that are known to take visits last year, the vast majority are never drafted by teams. That’s not a surprise, but it’s also why it makes no sense to worry much about who is coming in. The “visit” tracker TBL used isn’t complete at all, it only listed 10 players the Cardinals met with pre-draft last year. But of the 10, the Cards took only one — Tyrann Mathieu. Quarterbacks were on the list, but the Cards passed on Ryan Nassib and Mike Glennon more than once. The Patriots had 43 players known on the visit list last year, and they drafted none of them.

(Quick side note: Some teams announce what players visit, some don’t. For some it’s easier to find out for reporters. When I first started covering the Cards, the team not only announced who visited, but we were allowed to interview them. I remember doing that on the 2001 visits of Leonard Davis and defensive lineman Gerard Warren.)

Again, visits may provide info, but it’s impossible to know what information a team is trying to glean. It’s even possible a team brings in a player to purposely intimate interest when there is none — love the draft smokescreens. In the end, the speculation can be fun but it’s usually fruitless, given all the variables involved.


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Posted in Blog | 48 Comments »


48 Responses to “A visit doesn’t mean an extended stay”

  1. By Craig on Apr 10, 2014 | Reply

    Hi Darren,
    Do you think the Cardinals are bringing in players that won’t be drafted so they can have a leg up on bringing them in after the draft?

  2. By steve on Apr 10, 2014 | Reply

    Darren: Are you privy to knowing which college players the Cards bring in for predraft workouts?

  3. By ored on Apr 10, 2014 | Reply

    much like the elite player or the player we are comfortable as a starter…things change quickly.

  4. By georgiebird on Apr 10, 2014 | Reply

    Nice girls don’t stay for breakfast-

    Nothing going on-just waiting for the draft

  5. By Dr. G. on Apr 10, 2014 | Reply

    Hey Darren – This is why I just have a wish list and do not attempt to predict anything. But, it is still fun to try to envision what the front office will do based upon needs, BPA and possible trade movements.

    It’s just incredible that ideally, the Cards only need about 5 or 6 men to solidify both sides of the ball. It feels awesome! Here’s hoping that we get healthy, talented and motivated additions that bring no distracting baggage… I think Keim and Arians have a good sense of the baggage meter! G’day…

  6. By Darren Urban on Apr 10, 2014 | Reply

    Craig —

    RE: Visits

    That is possible.

  7. By Darren Urban on Apr 10, 2014 | Reply

    Steve —

    RE: Knowledge

    Only if I run into one I recognize.

  8. By T.Stone on Apr 10, 2014 | Reply

    Hey Darren Hey Darren Hey Darren. lol

  9. By Brad on Apr 11, 2014 | Reply

    Darren,
    When these guys come for visits, what does it entail? Do they workout? take tests? Maybe see what their character is like around new guys?

  10. By Eazy E on Apr 11, 2014 | Reply

    I thought by the title that it was talking about free agency and the ones we missed out on.

  11. By Big Ken on Apr 11, 2014 | Reply

    Good one Georgiebird!

  12. By Darren Urban on Apr 11, 2014 | Reply

    Brad —

    RE: Visits

    If they come to the facility, they cannot work out. They usually take some medical tests and have dinner with front office, coaches, scouts, to get a better feel for them as a person.

  13. By John The Draft Guy on Apr 11, 2014 | Reply

    Darren,

    I was watching NFL network and they were going over the top 100 players of all time. My first thought was, that job of picking is next to impossible. How do you compare a Guard to a WR?

    But my second thought was, have you ever done a top 10 or 20 list? Maybe get fan interaction.
    My thought was, who are the greatest ARIZONA / PHOENIX Cardinal players.

    Aeneas Williams would be on the list as would Larry and Warner I would guess.
    But what about Plummer or Ken Harvey? Larry Centers had a nice run, as did ADub. Is Dockett a top 20? What about Eric Swann? Frank Sanders had some big years. So did Steve Breaston. Lyle Sendlin has been a steady force in an every changing Oline. Before ADub was Tim McDonald. Did Simeon Rice or Bert Berry do enough? Eric Hill, Antonio Smith, or Campbell. Oh, and I think Tilman might get some votes although (he is a national hero) was not a top 20 player.

    What do you think Darren?

  14. By D on Apr 11, 2014 | Reply

    My final attempt on the Cards draft. I think they may try and move down to add a pick but if not, here’s my college try:

    1) R. Hageman DL. Huge player that could learn under DD for a year before taking his spot next year. I think it will come down between his grade vs K. Ealy. I think this will be DD’s last year in AZ due to cap.

    2) Z. Mettenberger QB. I think he will be too much for Keim to pass up, I know BA says he doesn’t draft a kid to sit, but that is why Keim has final say. I have been thinking OLB but the Cards have plenty of bodies at that spot right now, big year for Acho and need to find out about Okafor. Mettenberger needs a year to learn on reading defenses and some footwork, time to draft a future QB.

    3) A. Dixon SS. Big body kid that can shore up the secondary. Some people like Pryor in Round one at safety but I don’t like 5’11 safetys. (HoneyBadger who plays both is excluded from my height req)

    4) M. Bullough ILB. Cards need of interior LB more pressing than OLB- they could add a Vet later in the summer, but this kid can play inside that can provide depth since DWash probably will miss some games this year. Good tackler.

    5) S. Henderson RT. A huge OT that could compete with Massie and Sowell at RT. Could provide good depth if doesn’t start since I don’t see Potter on the roster

    6) X. Grimble TE. A big body blocking TE from USC.

    I didn’t take a Corner due to I believe this year Bethel and McCann need to show some CB abilities to go with their strong special team play. Both are young players.

  15. By Darren Urban on Apr 11, 2014 | Reply

    JTDG —

    RE: Top 20

    I think I am getting grief for my top 10 draft picks story. I can only imagine if I made a top 20 players list.

  16. By Coach K on Apr 11, 2014 | Reply

    I’m updating my board and going back to my previous second round pick based on this weeks excellent pro day at LSU. Adding my LSU boys back in.

    Rd. 1- Dee Ford, OLB, Auburn. Dee simply fits the 3-4 scheme and knows how to rush the edge.

    Rd.2- Zach Mettenberger, OB, LSU. Despite his lack of mobility, I like Zach because of that cannon arm of his. That deep ball during his pro day was out of this world.

    Rd. 3- Bruce Ellington, WR, So Carolina Got to keep family close, especially when they are fast. Bruce can sub in with Ginn and learn.

    Rd. 4- James Hurst, OT, UNC Coops old line mate will add solid depth to both tackle spots.

    Rd. 5- Craig Loston, SS, LSU Craig has been sliding due to concerns over his coverage ability. I don’t think its an issue and can be coached up. Craig is a big hitter and a ball hawk.

    Rd. 6- Shamar Stephen, DE, UConn. This is my sleeper pick of the draft. Stephen is long and talented, but somewhat under the radar. I originally had the tight end Jake Murphy here, but grooming someone behind Dockett is a priority and Stephen has all the tools. Long arms and very strong. Needs to develop his pass rush skills and who better to teach him than Dockett.

  17. By Chuck 1 on Apr 11, 2014 | Reply

    My first three draftees would be SS (see opponents’ TE successes in 2013), pass rusher and DT (see potential delayed recovery from injury of DL).

  18. By br on Apr 12, 2014 | Reply

    Read a mock draft this morning that ha OLB Barr/UCLA being picked by us at #20, somehow, someway he is still on the board for us to grab ( I dont think he lasts past pick #12!) but if he were to be there I think he is the one defensive player that I would be happy, nay…giddy if the Cardinals got him in rd 1 even if OT Z. Martin/ND was still on the board ( I think all you regular posters on here know my offensive heavy draft wishes. LOL) Of course this same mock draft had SS Pryor still on the board after 1st rd complete!! Some so called expert eh??
    So, lets hear it, what do you do, Barr (who is a huge steal at #20) or Pryor (who is a bigger need of the two positions) or do we take biggest need and BPA in Z Martin giving us a cornerstone for the next decade and BPA if he is on the board at #20! (Of course the Best Player Available & Cardinal needs listed above is just my humble opinion!) I was also thinking, if this actually plays out ( highly unlikely…as in 0% chance that Barr last past #12 and Pryor doesnt get picked in 1st rd! ) but if it does…I think Cards should put together a package and look to trade up for a second pick in the first rd, to be safe we would need pick #21, then all you defensive minded draftniks would be slobering all over yourselves…BARR at #20 – PRYOR at #21, I could even live with that provided the next ( or even the rest) of our picks were on offensive side, say maybe, (yes my spelling sucks!) BITIONO/OL…THOMAS/QB…WEST/RB – This kid is out of Towson and has already worked out privately for Cardinals, he is flying up the boards most are saying second day lock, and possibly 2nd rd pick. The more I read and watch video the more I hope Cards snag this kid! Im a tad biased of course, I love the small school sleeper prospects, although he is not a sleeper anymore! And our small school coach was at the workout, and hopefully Stump can somehow lobby hard enough to get him in Cardinal Red!! Some team is going to get a future SUPERSTAR, please take some time to read/watch some material on this kid I think it will change alot of your opinions and your mock drafts as well, TERRANCE WEST…NFL OFFENSIVE ROOKIE OF THE YEAR (that ladies & gents is my prediction! please make note of this date and blog, I will gladly eat crow if he flops or is just mediocre in 2-3yrs!!) I also believe Whiz and the Titans make a play for this stud! Place your bets….

  19. By br on Apr 12, 2014 | Reply

    Coach k

    Rd#1 Ok Coach what if Barr/UCLA falls to #20 (which NBC Sports PFT says he will and has us picking him, this same so called expert has Pryor/LOU not even picked in 1st rd!! I dont believe it for a second!) But for sake of discussion what do you do?? I say BARR/UCLA great value pick in my humble opinion. Of course a name I will throw out, Z MARTIN/ND-anchors R side of OL for a decade!
    Rd#2 – I believe this is to high for a QB in general and METTENBURGER specifically to much of a reach in my humble opinion of course. TERRANCE WEST/RB/TOWSON – remember that name please read and watch what you can on him, whoever pulls the trigger on him wont regret it! Perfect compliment to ELLINGTON. Or if PRYOR/SS/LOUISVILLE is still on the board grab him of course he wont be!
    Rd#3 – I like it good pick, probably a reach but adding “E’s Cuz” you cant really go wrong. Another name would be BITOLINO/OT (sp) can also play RG, but wouldnt draft him if we get MARTIN/ND in rd#1. In that case gonna say FEDORWITZ/TE/IOWA (again my spelling sucks to high hell) but he is a great blocker first and pass catcher next

  20. By br on Apr 12, 2014 | Reply

    Here we go again me and my stupid azz cell phne!! So this is now in 2 parts
    Rd #4 – HURST is coming off serious injury but me living here in NC we are force fed there games got to see quite abit of him and was impressed by what I saw can play OG & OT but bit of a reach with the injury, can he return to form? I would actually flip- flop picks and grab LOSTON/LSU take him here in my opinion I dont think LOSTON makes it to 5th rd, especially with the solid pro day he had. L
    THOMAS/QB would also be a consideration here, he is also climbing the boards and no longer a lock to be around in 5th rd.
    RD #5 See above, idonthink LOSTON makes it to rd #5 couple of other names for Rd #5 WALT AIKIENS/CB/LIBERTY & DONTAE JOHNSON/CB/NC STATE – tall rangy CB’s just the way BA likes em! As well MAX BULLOUGH/ILB/MICH ST – was suspended for Rose Bowl but I dont believe he would be major off field problem, think it was one time “muck up” bad decision type thing, would be solid backup or if Cards dont sign veteran ILB could hold down the fort ( hopefully) til DWASH returns from his suspension ( which we all know is coming!)
    Rd#6 – the DE from UCONN sounds as good as any! I will spit out a list of a few more promising prospects this evening…gotta pay the bills and time kind of got away from me gotta get my azz to work! Looking forward to any and all thoughts/opinions/criticism and of course any M-4 blasts to the head & neck area!!!! SS

  21. By Scott on Apr 12, 2014 | Reply

    Good mock draft but i think you might be reaching a little with mettenberger, he’s coming of a pretty bad injury and I think teams will want to stay away from that, I would move him down to third, move Ellington down to fourth, and I hope the cards either take Deone Bucannon in second or trade down to get more picks, like maybe an early 4th rounder to pick up Ellington and some additional late picks.

  22. By Scott on Apr 12, 2014 | Reply

    My mock draft-

    1- Dee Ford, OLB, Auborn, Great pass Rusher and we can use another one of these guys, Abraham getting up there in his age and he isn’t going be along for long.

    2- Deone Buchannon, S, Washinton State, Hard hitting SS while he can still play the ball in the air, he will miss some tackles at times but worth the pick even though I belive Tony Jefferson is as good as any safety in the draft. If Deone isn’t there, trade down.

    3- Zach Mettenberger, QB, LSU, Strong arm, Carson Palmer like, and fits Arians offense pretty well. Other teams are going to stay away from a player coming off a big injury but I belive he’s proven himself at his pro day and I hope Arians is fine with letting this former LSU quaterback sit for a few years and develop.

    4- Bruce Ellington, WR, South carolina, My favorite pick in the draft. I was watching his combine and I was astonished of this multi-sport athlete even before I knew he’s cousins with Andre Ellington. Fast, great hands, and if Arians belives he’s to small to play WR at 5’9, he could gain about 25 lbs and switch to RB. Great pick!!

    5- Brandon Thomas, G/T, Clemson, he tore his Acl and will slide in the draft. He’s a little raw and needs to be more consistant and he could achive this by some good coaching which he will be getting alot of since he will most lilkely sit almost the whole year.

    6- Avery Williamson, MLB, Kentucky, Good wrap up tackler and can cover. We could use some depth at the MLB position. We don’t know what’s going on with Daryl Washington and if he’s going to be suspended or not, so we should pick a backer here and Avery is as good as any 4th round and up.

    FA pickups after draft-
    -Eric winston

    -Adrian Wilson, mostly for a veteran presence, young guys need somebody on the defence to look up to and who better than Adrian.

    Trade away-
    -Jeroud Powers, he had to many games where he got owned. Trade him away for a late rounder and pick a corner in his asbence.

  23. By iammattyoung on Apr 12, 2014 | Reply

    Rd 1: Dee Ford or Jeremiah Attaochu. Cards need a sack specialist on the right side. Shaughnessy is a great every-down player, but being able to bring one of these guys opposite Abraham (and then eventually replace Abe next season) would be huge. Attaochu recenly ran a sub 4.6 at his pro day. Similar size to Ford.

    Rd. 2: Deonne Buchanon, S. The cards NEED a safety back there. This dude has the size to challenge those pesky TEs (6’1″) and ran a 4.49 at the combine. Not to mention, he’s played against some of the better QBs (Hundley, Mariotta, Foles) and WRs (Brandin Cooks, Marquise Lee).

    Rd. 3: Zach Mettenberger/Tom Savage, QB. Gotta get the heir to Palmer on board. Neither of these guys would be a bad gamble. Although if Austin Sefarian-Jenkins is still there, he’d be tempting.

  24. By Andy Kw on Apr 12, 2014 | Reply

    I am pretty sure we can trade our first round pick to move down to get San Francisco’s 1st Round Pick and 3rd Round Pick. The 49ers are in need of a cornerback and probably will think that we will draft Darqueze Dennard or Bradley Roby. We trade with them and get an extra pick.

    Rd. 1- DT Ra’Shede Hageman (Minnesota) 6’6” 310lbs: -From 49ers
    -This guy is young, fast, and strong. His ability to bat passes and provide the run stuffing ability makes him perfect as Pro Bowl DT Darnell Dockett replacement. I believe this guy will drop to pick 30 and if the trade doesn’t happen, getting him at 20 would be nice too.

    Rd. 2-SS Deone Bucannon (Washington St.) 6’1” 211lbs:
    -This guy is one of the faster Strong Safeties in the NFL Draft. He is a fierce tackler and has great leaping ability. If you give him a year to develop or even start him on Day 1, he will be a lot better in his 2nd year as a Pro. He is determined to be better every day and seeks to be one of the best. He has Pro Bowl potential.

    Rd. 3-WR Bruce Ellington (South Carolina) 5’9” 197lbs:
    -We obviously know who this guy is. I have to agree with Coach K, sub him in with Ted Ginn and learn.

    Rd. 3-QB Logan Thomas (Virginia Tech) 6’6” 248lbs: -From 49ers
    -This guy reminds me of Colin Kaepernick. He has the athleticism to be a great Read option QB but he also has the powerful arm & size in being a good Pocket Passer. He will learn to stay in the pocket and run when he has to.

    Rd. 4-CB Stanley Jean-Baptiste (Nebraska) 6’3” 218lbs:
    -He will drop to this fourth round because people feel he lacks the speed to cover fast receivers and is inconsistent at times. He has the perfect size and I believe he will be a steal. We need to load up on Cornerbacks and he is perfect for Bowles’ scheme.

    Rd. 5-OLB Jordan Tripp (Montana) 6’3” 235lbs
    Rd.6 TE Jacob Pedersen (Wisconsin) 6’3” 238lbs:
    -Bruce Arians loves his tight ends and he can be an amazing tight end like our former #2 TE Jim Dray.

  25. By John The Draft Guy on Apr 12, 2014 | Reply

    Darren,

    I think your list is a top 10 draft picks of the best players they have drafted.
    I can’t fault you for your picks, but aren’t guys picked in the top 5 suppose to be good? I don’t think I have much of an argument for your picks.

    But what if your draft picks were best values

    Some guys who should be considered;

    Reggie Wells – a 6th round pick who started 90 games for the cards

    Steve Breaston – A 5th rounder who, with Boldin out a few times, stepped up big in 2008, having a 1000 yards. He followed it up with 2 pretty good years till injuries got him.

    Michael Bankston – was a forth rounder who started 72 games for the cards before starting for Cinny the next 3 years.

    Antonio Smith – A 5th rounder who has put up 41.5 sacks and was a solid player with DD inside on that superbowl run.

    Gerald Hayes – a third rounder, played 8 years for the cards at MLB putting up 428 tackles and 5.5 sacks.

    But the top 4 best draft picks by value have to be;

    #4- Anquan Boldin – a late 2nd rounder turned into rookie of the year

    #3- Adrian Wilson – a 3rd rounder who will be in the ring of honor

    #2- Darnell Dockett – Dockett has had a great career for the cards after being selected in the 3rd.

    #1 -Aeneas Williams – A HOF chosen in the 3rd round

  26. By John The Draft Guy on Apr 13, 2014 | Reply

    br,

    No question, if Barr falls to 20, do not trade down, instead rush up with Anthony Barr written on your card immediately . I do not think it should be debated

  27. By Dago on Apr 13, 2014 | Reply

    My 3 round mock:

    1 rd: Calvin Pryor SS Louisville- We need an athletic hard hitting safety to cover TE’s and to complement Mathieu. And hes the BPA at the time.

    2 rd: Jace Amaro TE Texas Tech- I don’t think he’ll be there in the 2nd rd when we’re picking but is hes available, I think Keim would pull the trigger on Amaro. He needs to work on his blocking but that’s coach able

    3 rd: Zach Mettenberger QB LSU- If he’s still there in the 3rd, that would be a steal for us. He can learn for a year or two under Carson Palmer. He can get his knee healthy, work on his fundamentals. Boom our QB of the future. We can only hope.

  28. By Big Ken on Apr 13, 2014 | Reply

    “Best Value’ I like that one John. Put down Ronald McKinnon for me. Incredibly he was an UDFA all the way back to 1995. He made a comment that went like, from the moment you sign your contract with the team they immediately start to find your replacement. A great value he was.

  29. By Coach K on Apr 13, 2014 | Reply

    BR

    I don’t see Barr falling to us. Just don’t believe it. He’s a top 15 pick. Frankly, I don’t like him as a run defender. He’s not a 3 down guy right now. But most teams would take him as a pass rusher. He will be off the board before pick #20.

    Just for your information, here is a group of picks that match up very similar to Bob Rang’s mock for the Cardinals based on rankings. Interesting.

    Rd. 1- Calvin Pryor, S
    Rd. 2- Jeremiah Attaochu, OLB
    Rd. 3- Stanley Jean Baptiste, CB
    Rd. 4- Craig Loston, SS,
    Rd.5- Brent Urban, DE
    Rd. 6- Jake Murphy, TE

    Based on CBS sports rankings, this is where these guys would fall to us.

    Interesting group. I adjusted two that were duplicate positions and moved down
    a few ranks to compensate. But this group would address needs.

  30. By John The Draft Guy on Apr 14, 2014 | Reply

    Coach K,

    Just looked at Rob Rang’s mock – He has Pryor going to the bears at 14.

  31. By Coach K on Apr 14, 2014 | Reply

    How deep is this draft. Here is a snapshot of the deepest positions for the top 100 ranked players from the Combine. I left of guards and centers. This is a list of draft position depth who are rated as potential immediate starters in the NFL:

    Safety- 4
    Tight ends- 4
    Quarterback- 6
    D-Ends- 9
    Outside Backers- 9
    O-Tackles- 10
    D-Tackles – 12
    Cornerbacks- 14
    Wide Receivers- 16

    Based on the number of potential starters, Receiver is clearly the deepest position followed by cornerback, defensive tackle, defensive end and outside backer. What this means for the Cardinals is, THEY CAN WAIT on these five deepest positions until round two and get a potential starter.

    To make it easier, no need to pick a corner, defensive lineman, edge rusher or receiver with the first pick. They will find a starter at those positions in round two.

    If I’m in the war room on draft day, I’m taking the best available athlete that falls beginning with Offensive Tackle, Safety, Tight End or Quarterback in round one.
    I’m taking edge rusher or defensive lineman in round two. In round three, I’m taking a cornerback or wide receiver.

  32. By John The Draft Guy on Apr 14, 2014 | Reply

    Oh by the way,

    Rob Rang has finally taken a look at the tape and has the cards taking Demarcus Lawrence with the 20th pick.

    To show you how much people are just learning about him, only 2 of the 5 experts have Lawrence in round 1. While the rankings have moved him from 70th to now 48th. They have him listed as a DE while he will be an OLB in the pros.

    This is why I had the cards in my mock trading down to 39 and in the process of the two trade downs, picked up 2 extra picks.

  33. By John The Draft Guy on Apr 14, 2014 | Reply

    I see there are several post regarding Zach Mettenberger. Many think he is a late third rounder.

    My prediction is, he doesn’t make it to pick 52. Why? I went back and watched him in the 2012 Alabama game. What I saw was a strong armed QB who stood tall in the pocket to deliver the ball. He found his check downs when the first wrs were covered and anticipated his throws. He throws balls before guys are out of breaks right on target. You could take Zach out and insert Palmer and see the same type of plays and throws. I could see this guy fitting in with the cards.

    Many thought the injury would push him down. But after his pro day, this guy will be in the top 50 players chosen.

  34. By Big Ken on Apr 14, 2014 | Reply

    Coach K, I agree he’s not falling to the 20th pick. I think he’s a little over-rated.

  35. By Coach K on Apr 14, 2014 | Reply

    John The Draft Guy

    Yes, I too have some concerns with Mettenberger. Yes he can throw the ball s good or better than anyone, but two things bother me. 1. His feet 2. His mind.

    I will not elaborate on the latter, but I do have concerns also. I’m a big Bortles guy and was the first guy to praise him with the media a year ago before he was really known. Having coached QB’s all these years, he just jumped off the screen at me. Not so much his mechanics, but his swagger and ability to always deliver in the clutch. So to be honest, I’m a Bortles guy all the way.

    Why do you think I keep preaching for the QB’s to all fall in this draft. I have my reasons. 7 of them: B-O-R-T-L-E-S

    My second favorite QB is actually Jimmy Garoppolo. Why? Because he reminds me so much of Kurt Warner and the way Kurt timed his throws. Always getting the ball in tight windows. Garoppolo has that same ability. The ball never hangs in the air. It’s a precision dart right to the target in the smallest of windows. And nobody throws a better deep fade pass than Garoppolo. That is simply an art form. I could listen to Beethoven’s 5th symphony watching Garoppolo throw those beautiful, high velocity fades that drop from the sky directly into the hands of receivers (even if they are covered). It’s Art.

  36. By Dr. G. on Apr 14, 2014 | Reply

    JTDG – Your observation that Palmer and ZachMett could be interchangeable is interesting and very astute. The only thing that might concern is the two injured ligaments, one severe sprain and the other torn. But, the doctors’ reports are very optimistic after using part of his hamstring for repairing. His 40-time at 5+ doesn’t bother me as a pocket passer like Palmer, but we must have expectations that the O-Line must perform very well. Jaws likes him; and his arm looks to be better than Palmer’s… I have seen Palmer throw short many times last year on the almost home run ball. Zach seems to be able to throw off-balance very well. The game you watched was prior to the injury… I think….?

    Recent reports indicate that his personal issues have improved, and that he is maturing as he enters this phase of his career… A good pick for the Cards if he is there when it is our turn…. or a trade etc… Be well….

  37. By jason on Apr 14, 2014 | Reply

    JTDG-

    Any thoughts on Tom Savage? He is a late riser and the media has really taken a liking to him. I haven’t watched anything on him so I have zero clue, but I do like the thought of us being able to find a guy 3rd round or later to groom behind Carson and have a manageable salary when he does take the reigns. I agree with you that it doesn’t have to happen this draft but with Mettenberger, Savage and Thomas there seem to be a few guys who meet the measurables that BA likes in his QB’s.

  38. By John The Draft Guy on Apr 14, 2014 | Reply

    Coach K,

    I have said many times, I would take Bortles. He just wont be anywhere near 20 in my opinion.

    About Zach, I was addressing the fact that I have seen people saying take him in the 3rd or even 4th. I think his pro day impressed me. I just think QBs get pushed up in the draft and a big guy with a strong arm, he will end up in the top 50. Look out for NE.

    Garoppolo is interesting. I see him in the same way I see Andy Dalton. Can he be successful and lead a team to the playoffs, yes. I could see a surprise team coming up in the end of round 1 for him. I just dont think he fits as the QB Arians want to be married with.

  39. By br on Apr 14, 2014 | Reply

    I dont believe Barr will be there either, but I read it on a site with so called “expert” mock drafting, I wish I could remember the sight!Agreed that is one reason ive been talking up Z. Martin/ND we need to fix the huge hole on the right side of our o-line! All these defensive leaning drafts are killing me, for the life of me I cant figure out why most people think we need all these top picks on d, we have a top 10 defense, possibly top 5 with improvements from the young guys and FA signing of Cro! The offense not so good last yr (huge improvement second half of the year!) But nowhere near as good as it needs to be, fix right side of o-line giving CPtime to throw and look out! As well our running game was below average at best stronger o-line and West/Towson in the draft, paired with Ellington and wala…top 10 offense…home field advantage for SB!!! GO CARDS!!!

  40. By br on Apr 14, 2014 | Reply

    My only question on Mett…where was he the last 3yrs never heard anything about him and this is a QB for a top ranked program in the most media biased conference in the nation and until mid season this last year, it was Zach who?? Is he a flash in the pan, or did it take him 3.5 yrs to figure it out? Or is he a legit NFL QB just a late bloomer?? I dont want him to be in a Cards uniform still trying to get answers to those questions, at least not using a 2nd or 3rd rd pick on him. If we could get him in rd 5-6 then fine but a QB drafted as high as people are predicting him should have answered all the basic questions with his play on the field the last 4yrs!

  41. By br on Apr 14, 2014 | Reply

    In my opinion Cardinals get the same attributes plus blazing speed by taking L. Thomas/ VA TECH who has a much higher ceiling and can convert to a multi purpose offensive weapon if he doesnt pan out as a QB. (My money is on him being a top notch QB ala Russell Wilson only freakish size and speed. Wilson first caught my eye at NC STATE since I live about 2 hours from Raleigh and after 2yrs here I was thinking huge sleeper in the draft, when he transferred to Wisconsin and dominated in the B10 I couldnt believe he didnt go 1st rd in the draft. Same with Thomas, 1st rd talent that can be had in rd 3-4 now, just a month ago he was 5-6 rd prediction! Some team will be getting a gem in Thomas, I hope its the Cards!!!
    P.S…Iam a huge BORTLES fan as well, far and away the Best QBin the draft but I have resigned myself to the fact that he will be gone top 5 , probably #1 and the Cardinals are not and should not sell the farm to trade up and get him!!!

  42. By John The Draft Guy on Apr 15, 2014 | Reply

    jason,

    Tom Savage – What an interesting guy. A athletic QB with a huge arm. Sometimes guys like that have bad mechanics because they rely on their arm. This guy can throw the ball from all kinds of angles. That is the case here.

    Just from the clips I saw from you tube, the first name that came up was Brett Farve. Farve was drafted by Atlanta but was so raw, Atlanta quickly gave up on him. In fact, Glanville , the coach of Atlanta, would bet the other coaches in pre game that Farve could throw the ball into the upper deck. So, he was more of a parlor joke than HOFer that we know him as. Green Bay played Farve after an injury to their starter, not because he beat out the starter.

    So, I dont know a lot about Savage, but if he wants to be good, gets the right coaching, and is smart enough to grasp an offense, he could be a solid 3rd day choice. He could climb into round 3.

    The nature talent is there. He also jump to 4 different colleges. Why could he not stick anywhere? Lots of questions I would have.

  43. By John The Draft Guy on Apr 15, 2014 | Reply

    br,

    What sets Russell Wilson aside from the other young QBs is two things. He is mature and a great leader. Much like Andrew Luck, there is no doubt who is in charge and they both want to be great QBs not celebrities. Wilson is not blessed with size, but his desire to be great pushes him to be one of the top young QBs.

    With Thomas, the first question is how badly does he want it? The knock on him is, he doesn’t have that self confidence and desire to be the best.

    I read from one “expert” that said, That might explain why his best year was his soph year and didn’t become better each year. (lack of desire to be great).

    There is no doubt Thomas has the physical tools. Look at him, 6’6″ and 248 lbs, huge arm, can run fast, quick release, tough and physical.

    So why is he a third day pick? If I am a GM, everything that I want to know about him would happen in the interview room . Take him out to dinner and challenge him on his mental makeup.

  44. By John The Draft Guy on Apr 15, 2014 | Reply

    Mettenberger;

    Think Ryan Mallet… Not mobile, big arm, had some character flaws. Both played in the SEC and both had success.

    Last year at this time, look at how many posters wanted to trade for Mallet. Why? Mallet went to a team with a strong head coach and established QB. There, it appears he learned how to grow up and become a QB. Seems like we have a similar situation in AZ with Palmer and Arians.

    Interesting Mallet went at the beginning of round 3. I think Zach goes in the top 50, but with so many QBs – McCarrens, Garoppolo, Bortles, Bridgewater, Carr, Manziel, Murrey, who knows maybe I am wrong and he get to the top of round 3 , just like Mallet.

  45. By jason on Apr 15, 2014 | Reply

    JTDG & br-

    Logan Thomas suffered as the talent around him declined. In his sophomore year he played with David Wilson at RB and Jarrett Boykin/Danny Coale at WR all who went on to the NFL. VaTech never replaced these players and I’d argue that the reason they’re in decline as a program is the fact that they haven’t been able to match the influx of talent that they’ve been accustomed to. I can’t think of one other offensive VaTech player that is even on the radar to be drafted or UDFA? While Mettenberger has Landry, Beckham, Hill and Trai Turner who should all hear their names called and La’el Collins would have been a high pick if he hadn’t chosen to go back to school. If is my opinion that if these two QB’s traded places Logan Thomas would be in the mix for the #1 overall pick.

  46. By John The Draft Guy on Apr 15, 2014 | Reply

    jason,

    While I agree with your argument, I’m not ready to say Thomas , on LSU, would be the number one pick.

    Although Thomas has flashed at times on tape, and lets face it, physically, he is more gifted than Luck or Wilson, the scouts are seeing or hearing something about this young man that has him looking like a day 3 pick.

    While I see Mettenberger and Savage being mentioned in rounds 2 and 3, I still hear Logan in rounds 4 and below. A lot of terms like “take a flyer on him” or he is worth the risk in the ____ round.

    If I was to believe the premise that if Thomas had better talent around him, he would be a star, shouldn’t he be a rising star now in workouts?

    I think the ole story of, you cant teach accuracy and touch, comes into play. Everyone wants to believe someone so talented should be an NFL star. But the 3 years of tape and this years senior bowl practices, says he has those two issues. Is it between the ears? I do not know. Could a Arians bring out his best? I dont know. But if you want to risk a 5th rounder and take a flyer on him, I’m OK with that.

  47. By Big Ken on Apr 15, 2014 | Reply

    It’s concerning when you read Logan Thomas might be converted to TE in the NFL. He’s definitely a project.

  48. By jason on Apr 15, 2014 | Reply

    JTDG-

    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1999181-virginia-tech-football-what-we-learned-about-logan-thomas-at-pro-day

    His pro day wasn’t open to the media and teams aren’t going to leak it. We only hear about the players that the “media” scouts like and don’t like…random fans have zero clue what teams feel about players.

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