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At 3-0, Friday before the bye

Posted by Darren Urban on September 26, 2014 – 2:51 pm

There had to be some doubt, right? If not when Daryl Washington was suspended then when John Abraham didn’t show up to camp on time or Jonathan Cooper’s leg proved not-ready-for-primetime and for sure when Darnell Dockett went down. Maybe that was the day for me, when Dockett crumpled on the University of Phoenix Stadium turf during a run-of-the-mill training camp practice. At some point, it was all going to catch up with them, and maybe that was the day, with a guy who meant so much to the emotional tenor of the team and without whom depth was an issue.

That’s the day that keeps popping back into my head as the Cardinals sit here, going into a bye week, atop the NFC West standings at 3-0. Two wins over playoff teams. Two wins in games when starting quarterback Carson Palmer could not play, a mountain NFL teams these days often cannot climb. Where this goes isn’t easy to predict, but at the same time the belief is embedded by now.

The Cardinals won’t go undefeated. But at this point, there isn’t a game on the schedule – as difficult as it might be – that would cause someone to be surprised if the Cards won on that particular weekend.

— Since 1990, 75.2 percent of NFL teams that started 3-0 have made the postseason (91 of 121). Of course, we all know that one of those 30 teams was the 2012 Cardinals. But as I’ve said, this team is built much differently.

— In my eyes the biggest surprises? Well, beyond the play of Drew Stanton, which I really didn’t see coming, I’d say the defense as a whole. The pass rush, well, it is what it is, and in a vacuum, it’s not really that good. But defensive coordinator Todd Bowles makes it better with his schemes. I heard former offensive lineman/ESPN analyst Mark Schlereth on Arizona Sports’ “Bickley and Marotta” show today saying when watching video, he can’t believe how much the Cardinals actually blitz. Teams normally are burned by such maneuvering. The Cards are not, he said, because everyone is so in sync.

— I am a little surprised Jonathan Cooper is still on the bench. But Harold Goodwin is taking an if-it-ain’t-broke-don’t-fix-it approach with the O-line. Bruce Arians said once the season started it’d be hard for Coop to get on the field. He wasn’t lying.

— I am surprised rookie kicker Chandler Catanzaro has been this steady. He’s 9-for-9 on field goals, tying he-was-a-Cardinal-for-few-days Dan Carpenter – now in Buffalo – for most in the league. He drilled a 51-yarder, a franchise rookie record, and impressively, 14 of his 17 kickoffs have left the opponent at no better than the 20-yard line, including nine touchbacks.

— Deone Bucannon has looked pretty solid in his dollar linebacker role, although he definitely has room to improve in pass coverage. Fellow safety Tony Jefferson has been a revelation. When Tyrann Mathieu is back to full strength, what a secondary this will be.

— Although no more scares like that Cromartie knee injury thing last week. Between the end of last season and Dockett, this team has had its fill of ACL tears.

— Just in case you want to make that story even better when the Cardinals, with just nine players on the field, blocked the 49ers’ field goal last week, how about this: The Niners actually had a fake called on the play, and then changed their mind, and not everyone got the message.

— The 49ers ended up with a trio of fines from last Sunday’s penalty-fest against the Cardinals, although neither hit on Cardinals QB Drew Stanton by linebacker Dan Skuta or Patrick Willis drew a fine (nor did Willis’ penalty flag on his helmet-to-helmet hit on wide receiver Larry Fitzgerald.)

San Francisco wide receiver Anquan Boldin was fined $8,263 for his headbutt on Jefferson. Tackle Jonathan Martin was fined $8,263 for clipping Bucannon, and safety Eric Reid fined $8.263 for facemasking wide receiver John Brown.

— Good story from Kyle Odegard on Cardinals’ VP of player personnel Terry McDonough and his brother Ryan, who is GM of the NBA team in town, the Phoenix Suns.

— So this is what it’s like to have an offensive line you’re not stressing about every game?

— I do expect the offense to get better as the season goes along, assuming health. Andre Ellington will be better. And yes, I think Fitz will eventually get the ball more often.

I’m going to go enjoy the bye weekend now. Practice resumes Monday.

ByeBlogUSE


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Posted in Blog | 60 Comments »


60 Responses to “At 3-0, Friday before the bye”

  1. By John The Draft Guy on Sep 26, 2014 | Reply

    The Cat Man has to be one of the best surprises. I didn’t know much about him when he unseeded Feely besides a big leg, but the kid has been awesome.

    When you are not talking about the offensive line, that’s a good thing. It has been a long time since that wasn’t a main topic on this board.

    Tony Jefferson has to be at the top of the surprise list. Pre draft, all we talked about was Safeties and OLBs. Keim even picked a safety #1 and yet, TJ had other ideas. Reminds me a little of Steve Breaston who was just a return guy and 5th/6th receiver. Breaston went to work and surprised everyone with a 1000 yrds receiving on the way to the SB in his second year just like TJ is doing in his 2nd year.

    Fitz has been a surprise that he has been used primarily as a blocker and decoy. I get it, it just is shocking to see.

    Bowles creativity is just awesome. I love the game inside a game. The chess matches coordinators play against each other. I think some OC’s have been surprised by what they have seen. Then, when SF surprised Bowles and caught him off balance, he rebound and shut them out.

    But I am most surprised that you brought up Cooper again and expect me to believe the “aint broke dont fix it” line.

    It is right up there with;

    Oswald acted alone
    Hilary knew nothing about Bengahzi
    Nixon didn’t order the break in at Watergate
    Bill did not have sex with that woman
    and
    Cooper isn’t playing because of continuity.

  2. By Darren Urban on Sep 26, 2014 | Reply

    JTDG —

    RE: Cooper

    You really let this whole Cooper thing get under your skin, don’t you?

  3. By italycardfan on Sep 26, 2014 | Reply

    Good weekend, Mr. Urban.
    For me it will be a long Sunday without the Cardinals. Without my favorite team!
    Last night I saw a piece of the Giants game and I think that when I said “NYG is not a great team,” maybe I was wrong. I think we have beaten three good teams and if they have appeared so submissive was our abilities, our concentration, to prevent them from showing off.
    Good evening to all!
    1-2-3-CARDS

  4. By krehbieo14 on Sep 26, 2014 | Reply

    The depth that the Cardinals display on both sides of the ball is what makes this team so solid. It gives me reassurance that this season and the future will look bright. Little acquisitions, like bringing in Drew Butler and Marion Grice have made Keim’s scouting insight look brilliant. Let’s all get some rest and go at in Denver. Thanks Darren!

  5. By Scott H on Sep 26, 2014 | Reply

    Love this team, love this coach, LOVE that we are 3-0 and get to watch everybody else this weekend.

    Now…of course, I’ll get skewered for saying this but here goes – I gotta say, I am not yet feeling a ton of confidence in Carson Palmer. I think I am MOST glad he is returning against the Broncos because I WANT to see him have that great game I keep waiting for but have not yet seen. IMHO, we have not seen much that has really been all that impressive from Palmer so far in 2014 and, well…I want to see it. By Week 5? Yeah, we need to see it by then.

    For me, Palmer was very sharp in the first pre-season game. He hasn’t been sharp since. That is too long a stretch for your starting QB to not look sharp. OK, he hasn’t played the last 2 games. Fine. I don’t hold that against him, he’s a pretty damn durable guy. But those 2 weeks have just added to the stretch of time since I have seen him playing sharp and, again, it’s just seems too long.

    I would hope that in what is basically a contract year for Palmer – and maybe the last opportunity he might have for a big money deal – he would be determined to play his ass off and show that he is the guy the Cardinals NEED for the next 2-3 years. And THAT’S the guy I want to see when he returns to the field!

    C’mon, Carson. Be that guy. For us AND yourself, be that guy! Opportunity is knocking, maybe for the last time.

  6. By JohnnyBluenose on Sep 26, 2014 | Reply

    Don’t get me wrong. I am so pleased that we are 3-0. I hope we go 19-0 on our way to winning the Super Bowl. But I also cannot help thinking that we could just as easily be sitting at 1-2 or maybe even 0-3. We were behind in all the games. The Chargers for some reason could not catch the ball. The Giants self-destructed and basically handed us the game. The Niners took needless penalties. But, good teams find a way to win and we are a good team. Winning makes us even better. We are off to a great start. We’ve got some swagger and as we get healthier we are going to be hard to beat. The bye comes at a good time. We will be ready for the Broncos and there is no reason to think we won’t beat them. Keep going.

  7. By Sir60 on Sep 26, 2014 | Reply

    I remember sport media asking the coach of the Houston Oilers {who were going to play the Patriots} what he thought of Bill Belichik, and he answered, “He can take his’en and beat your’en and he can take your’en and beat his’en”. This is how I feel about Bruce and his coaching staff.

    All 32 teams have great athletes or very skilled at, such as, kicking field goals. It takes smart personnel acquisition, great coaching and play coordination to put it all together.

    That’s what we got.

  8. By clssylssy on Sep 26, 2014 | Reply

    I’m thrilled to hear that Palmer’s shoulder is on the mend but am skeptical, not of Palmer, but of his arm holding up and being strong enough to best Peyton Manning! He’s only throwintg ten yards? Pop Warner kids can throw ten yards plus they have youth and the ability to run! I see interceptions and misfires at a time when we need the guy best able to bring us a win…with no interceptions, mistakes, etc. Certainly, I can understand Palmer wanting to play this game but, is his arm REALLY going to be up for it? Given the cryptic and vague comments from BA regarding Palmer’s shoulder in recent weeks, I am experiencing a deja vu of a situation that happened with the Chiefs when Rich Gannon stepped in for the injured starter Elvis Gerbach and took the team to the playoffs only to have Gerbach, the “starter” put back in to lose because he wasn’t really where he needed to be. Stanton played a masterful game against the 9ers that his stats don’t reflect and reminds me a lot of Rich Gannon. While it’s easy to blame him for the first half and “throwing short”, he nonetheless had no interceptions, sacks or costly mistakes.I blame the first half in which we were totally outplayed on the playcalling; if Stanton hadn’t played so flawless in the second half, been able to use his legs and absorb brutal pounding even with the help of our defense and special teams, we wouldn’t have looked so good; I seriously doubt that we would have “blown out the 9ers”.
    Going into Denver is going to be tough enough given the altitude and going up against a team bought and built specifically to defeat the Seahawks with one of the best QBs of all time will tell how legit our 3-0 standing is. I love some of BAs colorful truisms, especially the one this week cautioning the players about the fast elevator ride to the (expletive house), something fans should also be mindful of.
    We are fortunate to have such talent at the QB position that this even bears a second thought but I wonder how putting Palmer back in for this game, given his limitations in practice will fit with the “if it’s not broke” philosophy?
    With so many fans not feeling the love (or respect)from the sports media around the league, it would be quite the coup to upset the Broncos in their house! With BA so familiar with Peyton and how he operates, it could happen, so this week is going to be interesting…maybe even epic. But, still can’t quite thinking about that elevator ride! GO CARDS… start strong, play smart, keep the pressure on and Close the Deal!

  9. By John The Draft Guy on Sep 26, 2014 | Reply

    Darren,

    I guess people buy these silly things like he needs more time, he is still recovering from injury, or now the latest, continuity.

    The truth is he is not playing well enough to break the lineup.

    To be fair, I have never heard Cooper make any excuses. He has had an injury and then I guess another.

    Cooper most likely will start at sometime and all these people will come back and say see, he wasn’t a wasted pick. But there is 14.5 million reasons why he will get that chance.

    I just am so tired of hearing the excuses. It doesn’t matter the reason, he is not good enough to start and when talking about the 7th overall pick, thats disappointing.

  10. By T.Stone on Sep 26, 2014 | Reply

    Darren went JTDG on us. KISS

    Keep it simple. Damn.

  11. By azdesertrat1953 on Sep 26, 2014 | Reply

    So now it’s was a Fake field goal, not that they may be that bad, oh no it’s “We messed up.” Ohhh, it can’t be that the Cardinals are that good at Blocking PA and Field goals.
    Yaa Okay, what ever floats your boat.

    As far as I am concerned the O-line is doing just fine. Why try to fix something that is not broke. I remember a time when Russ Grimm was here, do you want that system back?
    Not me!
    “If it an’t workin, Fix it! If it is workin leave it the Heck alone!”

    GO CARDS!!!

  12. By georgiebird on Sep 26, 2014 | Reply

    After the 10-6 season, the Cards were on everyone’s radar for the 1st three games of the season.
    After a 3-0 start, the Cards are in everyone’s crosshairs.
    Time to keep adjusting and staying one step ahead of the enemy.

  13. By crooks on Sep 27, 2014 | Reply

    JTDG

    Way off base bro
    You gotta be the first person to compare Steve breaston to Tony Jefferson (productive late round picks that occurs every year??).
    You don’t honestly believe larry’s role is blocker or decoy?? I think you’re confused, great recievers draw extra attention and he happens to be one of the best blocking wide outs in the league. What are you talking about with Cooper??? He’ll be there next year but why rush it when Larsen earned the job and is holding his own

  14. By Marlin on Sep 27, 2014 | Reply

    My biggest surprise so far…..didn’t realize Larry Foote had so much left in the tank. He’s really been a big positive!

  15. By Darren Urban on Sep 27, 2014 | Reply

    Marlin —

    RE: Foote

    That’s a good call. I could’ve mentioned him too.

  16. By kickbackkid on Sep 27, 2014 | Reply

    Excellent reporting as always Darren! Enjoy your time off with your family. I look forward to chatting with you some more at the Corona basketball games…

  17. By hammatime on Sep 27, 2014 | Reply

    Darren Urban –

    Can someone relay to the stadium video/scoreboard operator or to whom this concerns that with regard to the noise level at Cardinal stadium that B.A. was talking about, could be helped greatly by helping some of the fans know when to be loud & when to be quiet. I’m not sure if some of our fans are too excited or just uninformed about when to make some noise when we are on Defense & when to be quiet so our Offense can be heard. I remember many past seasons shooting ourselves in the foot with false start penalties by the offensive line, not knowing if our Cards were just undisciplined or were we sabotaging ourselves by being loud at the wrong times.

    So I suggest instead of in between plays of showing the replay & then panning to fans in the crowd……the stadium jumbo video screen should quickly show the replay then flash the words: Let’s get LOUD! (when we are on defense) & QUIET (when we are on offense).

    I find that we get loud too late when we are on defense. If we were making loud noise earlier, like when the other team is still in the huddle up until the ball is snapped, we would have a better chance at disrupting the opposing offenses. Fans being loud DURING the opposing teams huddle may make miscommunication more frequent, may lead to QB having to repeat all or part of the play call, which in turn would cause more delay of game penalties & false starts for the opposing offenses.

    I have just been in amazement at how loud our fans are when we are on offense & at how late we get loud when the opposing offense is on the field. Please Darren, get this info to the right people that can make this happen……Even the fans of the supposed loudest NFL stadium (Seahawks) are helped by the Jumbotron operator telling them when to be LOUD & when to be QUIET.

    I apologize for this being such a long rant, I just feel that this is a really important aspect that successful NFL football teams & their fans need to be on the same page about. Like B.A. & Keim have shown, it’s doing the little things right that makes success.

  18. By John The Draft Guy on Sep 27, 2014 | Reply

    Crooks,

    Darren said in the last article ,
    I remember at one point last year — in the summer of 2013 — when a coach let Larry Fitzgerald know that sometimes, his job was to attract the defense so the ball could go elsewhere. (the definition of a decoy)

    In two games, he wasn’t targeted till the 4th quarter. He is averaging 35 yards a game.Go back and watch John Brown’s TDs, he draws the safety allowing brown the hole for a TD. (decoy). He has been an inline TE on plays, H-Back, and has been asked to crack back on DE in outside toss. All blocking .
    Nothing wrong with all that, but I am surprised the cards don’t draw up plays for him like Brandon Marshall or Calvin Johnson get.

    Cooper got beat out. Beat out by a backup. Look back at Darren’s past articles where Arians was so disappointed, he began working Watford there. But Watford was ineffective so they settled on Larsen.

    What evidence do you have that he will win the job next year? Any? Any at all?

  19. By John The Draft Guy on Sep 27, 2014 | Reply

    T. Stone

    That was funny.

    I was just thinking how much I like the way he wrote this article.

  20. By italycardfan on Sep 27, 2014 | Reply

    John The Draft Guy

    I agree with you when you say that the team’s offensive should not be limited to using Larry as a blocker, but produce more plays for him. But I think there is a lot of serenity in this calculation. I do not know if next year there will be the same results, but I think, this year, they are working to get what they want. I think they’re working for a big result. Maybe that’s what really matters to them! I saw Larry quiet, serene, and his words, after the first game, have been spent in favor of that theory. I too am very sorry to see it working in this way, with a few receptions and a few yards, but if they are doing this for the progress of the team, in mutual agreement, then, Larry will be the first one to be proud of the work performed.
    Greetings from Italy.
    GO CARDS!

  21. By sbrown on Sep 27, 2014 | Reply

    unbelieveable that Skuta & Willis did not get a fine.
    By defination when Willis hit “helmet to helmet” is an automatic fine, per league guidelines, so why no fine ?
    Skuta “launched” himself towards Stanton and targeted Stanton helmet as he had committed to slide. again per league this is a foul and should have a fine. In past games this hit could have had Skuta ejected.
    again the NFL not following their own rules for these hits that they ( NFL ) have deemed bad for the players.

  22. By Pablo on Sep 27, 2014 | Reply

    Darren Urban –

    RE: JTDG letting Cooper situation get under his skin

    Yes he does. But after reading his first post, it’s obvious that he gets irrationally upset about a lot of situations that nobody really cares about anyway.

  23. By Red Dead Redemption on Sep 28, 2014 | Reply

    Going to have to agree with JTDG, in regards to Cooper.
    Right now, what I have seen from him? Even though it has been limited? He may as well change his name to Cooper Brown.
    There is a chance the injury has gotten in his head and it has caused his poor play. That, this guy may not be a bust.
    Even seeing a sports psychologist, could help him. As doing that has turned around careers before.

    But even the optimists have to see it has been a disappointment thus far.
    I remember people saying the same things about Levi, “Give him time. He will be he will live up to his draft status.”
    After awhile even they turned on him.

    If Cooper was playing? Based on injury? I think people would see just how bad it is. Check out Pro Football Focus, Larsen, is no beast, he is a respectable lunch pail, starter. That is a nice way of saying above average.

    Cooper can’t even best above average, or match it. He has been poor.

  24. By TucsonTim on Sep 28, 2014 | Reply

    No fine for drilling Stanton in the head at the end of the first half. ARE YOU KIDDING ME????

    In view of all of the ticky tak hands to the face etc BS being called, that was a launch with the crown of the helmet worthy of a suspension. It is the essence of a physically dangerous action the NFL actually makes sense trying to eliminate.

    I tried to upload a still photo, but just go back and watch the replay. Pathetic

    And one more thing. Bolden ran an illegal pick on the first TD and held Acho on the second. And he gets no fine for publically blaming the officials for the loss? Things that make you go hummmm.

  25. By Erika M on Sep 28, 2014 | Reply

    To Scott H:

    I for one am not a fan of Palmer at all and quite frankly think he should just sit out the rest of the season and let Stanton continue to do his thing. Palmer had plenty of opportunity to prove many critics wrong and he fell short last season and now has injured his shoulder so early in this season… He’s older and needs to come to grips with reality. Stanton is what we need and the more he plays the better he’ll be. We beat the Giants on THEIR turf with Stanton and the 9ers in our house (who have beaten us plenty of times in our nest BTW) with Stanton. Stanton can do this, he can be our next Warner but with a SB win. Go Cards!!!

  26. By crooks on Sep 28, 2014 | Reply

    JTDG
    the coaches aren’t saying “Larry you’re gonne be a decoy here” he still lines up runs a route looking for a pass, but you take what the defense gives you. If a defense chooses to double Larry that doesn’t make him a decoy, but it gives us single coverage options.
    Cooper is 22 23?? John the draft guy is honestly gonna say Kiem and BA made a bad pick??????? Foolish

  27. By ryan on Sep 29, 2014 | Reply

    COOPER BROKE HIS LEG!
    THEN HE GOT TURF TOE!!
    DOES ANYONE REMEMBER???

  28. By ryan on Sep 29, 2014 | Reply

    Erika-

    were you a fan of Palmer last year when he took the Cardinals to 10-6? Any other year and we are in the playoffs. Palmer is 8-2 in his last 10 starts. Some “critics” just refuse to believe reality. Palmer has thrown for more yards in the last 2 seasons (2 different teams!) than most other qb’s!

  29. By Kevin S Mesa on Sep 29, 2014 | Reply

    Wow, I thought we had some clueless fans when we went through the whole DA/Kolb/Skelton/Max Hall/Lindley mess. And now when we finally have a real QB, and he misses a couple games and the backup — a guy who’s been a career backup presumably for a reason — does OK, we have someone saying he “fell short” last season and we should just go with the backup. Umm… 4000+ yards, 63.3% completions, 10-6 record… when have we seen any of those #’s recently?

    I like Stanton but why in the world would you think he is better than a guy who’s been a starter for a decade in this league?

  30. By Kevin S Mesa on Sep 29, 2014 | Reply

    Maybe Erika is the second coming of that other fan… what was her name, Sarah? … who was constantly talking up Skelton as the franchise QB. And now he doesn’t have a job in the NFL, even as someone’s third stringer.

  31. By John The Draft Guy on Sep 29, 2014 | Reply

    crooks,

    Cooper;
    That was some great evidence. You sold me. Keim picked so he must be good. I’m sorry everyone, crooks made me a believer. I take everything back.

    Fitz;
    Actually, the coaches did. And I have never said it was a bad thing. I said I was surprised.
    The first time the cards targeted him was at 9:38 of the 4th quarter. His first catch was 8:50 of the 4th quarter. This offense is using him to hold the safety, so Floyd would get one on one. They are having him on the same side as brown, getting brown the 3rd corner or safety on him, then running a drag with Fitz to draw up the deep safety, allowing Brown to blow by his guy. It is all about mismatches.

    All I said is the cards are using Fitz to draw coverage to him for others while teams like the bears, lions and bengals are designing plays to get their star receiver open.

  32. By John The Draft Guy on Sep 29, 2014 | Reply

    Ryan,

    I remember, do you remember this timeline.

    August 2nd
    Bruce Arians isn’t exactly sparse with praise….. So you hear him talk about guard Jonathan Cooper and it raises a flag. Arians said Cooper needs to raise his level of play. “I’m a little disappointed with where Coop is at right now,” Arians said. “I’d hope he come a little faster.”
    ….But he needs to start playing better. Arians also said he wants Earl Watford — who must play both guard spots to be able to dress Sundays — to be able to push Cooper. Given that Cooper was the seventh overall pick last year, that’s a very big deal. (Larsen wasn’t in the picture at this point)

    August 4th
    During his weekly radio spot on Arizona Sports 98.7 with Doug and Wolf, General Manager Steve Keim said he really wasn’t worried about left guard Jonathan Cooper, even though Bruce Arians had said he was disappointed in how the 2013 first-round pick had played up until this point.
    Keim blames broken leg almost a year later.

    August 4th – (My favorite excuse)
    – One of the reasons left guard Jonathan Cooper has struggled is going against defensive end Calais Campbell, who has played at a Pro Bowl level the last couple of years.
    “Coop is getting there. He’s still a rookie,” Campbell said. “I don’t feel bad beating him. I mean I kind of do a little bit but I know I have to go hard against him so he can be football-ready because the first game he’ll have to step up and play big for us. (Remember when Peterson said he loved battling Fitz, it will make him better)

    August 12th
    After an average night against the Texans (and giving up a sack to JJ Watt), Cooper has a bad knee.
    That means left guard Jonathan Cooper is still out, which doesn’t help. “It’s a big deal for anyone on the club right now because the competition level is high. It’s not like anything is in cement,” Arians said.

    August 18th
    Cooper now has turf toe.

    …..Bruce Arians used it as a jumping-off point to mention that Larsen, when Lyle Sendlein came back this week, would have a “good chance” to be the starting left guard. That, of course, raised eyebrows given that Jonathan Cooper plays left guard. So someone asked, “What about Cooper?”
    “He’s in the training room,” Arians replied. “He can’t do anything.”

    August 21st
    Cooper knows everyone is waiting on him to get back and start showing what made him a No. 1 draft pick. His turf toe is not cooperating.

    August 25th,
    Keim says Cooper is ready to go and back healthy from turf toe.

    August 28th
    Charger game aftermath
    Jonathan Cooper looked a little more shaky, but in his case, Ted Larsen is starting for the time being anyway.

    Larsen is the day one starter and has held on for the first 3 games. Arians declares continuity is the reason Larsen will play all year (my newest favorite excuse). Cooper to play backup for 2014.

  33. By Scott H on Sep 29, 2014 | Reply

    ryan –

    And how many INT’s has he thrown during those two seasons? Look, if we’re gonna tell the story. let’s tell the WHOLE story. The yards are great. Yardage totals are hardly the defining trait of a great QB. I am NOT trying to be anti-Palmer here. But in terms of last season and our 10-6 record, I think we would ALL have to say it was the defense that stood out the most. Am I wrong? Is it me, or did we have to overcome 4 INT’s in our SIGNATURE win against Seattle last year? Our defense overcame the Seahawks AND their own QB to win that game.

    I find it ridiculous that I and some others ( Erica, in this case ) get slammed just because we aren’t afraid to see something for what it is and be real about it while a post further up the page points out that the Cardinals could easily be 1-2 OR EVEN 0-3 right now and no one has a problem with that. THAT post gets all thumbs up’s? Really???

    Sorry, I must have missed a meeting ’cause I obviously don’t understand what it’s OK to be REAL about and what it isn’t.

  34. By Erika M on Sep 29, 2014 | Reply

    Ryan – No I was not a fan of his last season either he could have done way better but didn’t. I don’t know why but I don’t like his performance, maybe it’s because he is a Raiders reject…

    Kevin – he’s old, Stanton isn’t, that is my point. I didn’t think Skelton had it in him either. We have needed a QB since Warner left and Stanton is showing great potential. Sure Palmer has been a starter for a decade but has not won any rings… Stanton could win us our Super bowl within his first decade of being a starter.

    Scott – Thank you! Last season was awesome but it wasn’t our QB who gave us our wins it was definitely our defense.

  35. By Erika M on Sep 29, 2014 | Reply

    Not to mention Kevin, if he was THAT good the Raiders or the Bengals wouldn’t have let him go.

  36. By Kevin S Mesa on Sep 30, 2014 | Reply

    Erika (and Scott H) —

    Our defense was also good in 2012. So good in fact that many people on this blog (and I wouldn’t be surprised if Scott H was among them) were basically saying we couldn’t afford to lose Ray Horton and that he had to be kept at any cost. Some were ready to make him the HC just to avoid losing him.

    And what did that very good defense get us? A 5-11 record.

    Am I saying Carson Palmer alone took us from 5-11 to 10-6? Of course not. But focusing on things like “Carson Palmer hasn’t won any rings” is silly. Neither has Philip Rivers, or a bunch of other guys currently in the league that are excellent QB’s. (Nor did Dan Marino, Jim Kelly, Dan Fouts…) It’s just a red herring.

    The Bengals decided to go in a different direction. The Raiders simply didn’t want to pay Palmer given that they were going to suck anyway, and he didn’t really want to play there another season if I remember right. That doesn’t make him a bad QB. Heck, using the same logic, why would any team let Stanton go? He is much cheaper given that he’s a career backup, but you think he’s capable of leading a team to the SB. Why would any team have let HIM go? Heck, the Jets — a team with huge QB problems itself — let Stanton go to make room for Tim Tebow.

    You’re talking about him winning us our Super Bowl “within his first decade” of being a starter. You do realize that Stanton isn’t a rookie, right? He doesn’t have a decade of being a starter in him – he’d be over 40 in a decade. You’re saying Palmer is old (he’s 34) and you’re ready to discard him to the scrap heap and yet you’re talking like Stanton can play until he’s over 40. Stanton is closer in age to Palmer than he is to Andrew Luck.

    Look, I’m not saying Palmer is in the Brady/Manning class. I do think he’s in that middle tier of QB’s, with guys like, say, Flacco, Cutler, etc. — who can get the job done, and who are certainly capable of winning a SB though it won’t be primarily on their backs. And I’m not anti-Stanton. I just think it’s silly when people start talking about dumping the starter because the backup had a couple OK games. Let’s not forget, in neither game was Stanton a world-beater. He didn’t turn the ball over but he was basically John Skelton in the first game (14-29, 167 yards, took 4 sacks). Improved vs. SF but even there, 18-33. We have training camps and a depth chart for a reason. You don’t say, oh, this guy should be our starter because he happens to do OK in a couple games.

  37. By Kevin S Mesa on Sep 30, 2014 | Reply

    Scott H —

    Re Palmer’s interceptions, we’ve covered this ground before. Yes, he threw a lot last season. And most were in the first half of the season. And you heard the coach — the same coach whose bluntness and forthrightness you love — say on several of them that they were flat out not Palmer’s fault. Receivers weren’t in the right place. Palmer throws a pass to where the receiver is supposed to be, he’s not there, and we’re all scratching our head wondering why the heck he threw it right to the defender. Well, the team was still trying to learn an offense, and guys were making mistakes.

    The Seattle game was later in the season and admittedly that was his one bad game once the offense had adjusted to the new system. Palmer wasn’t the first QB to look bad in Seattle and he won’t be the last. (A really good D will do that… heck, look at Russell Wilson; we made him look terrible in that same game — 11 for 27 (!) for only 108 yards.) In the last 9 games of 2013, Palmer’s LOWEST QB rating other than that Seattle game was 85.6, with 4 games over 110 and another game over 100. We haven’t seen anything close to that since Warner. He started out this year with more of the same — 24-37, 300+ yards, 2 TD’s, no INT’s against a very good Charger team that’s allowed 45 points in their 3 other games since.

    It’s funny how you flip around. I mean, I thought you had finally converted to being a Palmer supporter after actually seeing how a good QB made so much of a difference for this team. Now you’re concerned because you haven’t seen much to impress you from Palmer in 2014. Huh? He played one game and he was great. Then you start going on about how he wasn’t sharp in the preseason. Who the heck cares? He’s a vet QB. No one cares if Derek Jeter hits .200 in spring training. Maybe Palmer was working on certain things. Maybe the fact that the starting offense only plays 1-2 quarters in most games in the preseason prevents you from getting in a rhythm. Some of you take the preseason games way too seriously and forget that there’s an entire training camp where they’re working on a lot more stuff.

  38. By Kevin S Mesa on Sep 30, 2014 | Reply

    Finally, let’s be honest in our assessment of Stanton’s first game. If that had been Palmer people would be saying it was a bad game (less than 50% completions, only 167 yards, no sacks). The no INT’s was big but other than that it wasn’t a good game. (Certainly not one that makes you think “Super Bowl QB” like Erika seems to think.)

    We gave Stanton a pass on that game because it was his first start in forever and we won. But basically that win was a gift. A guy fumbled without even being hit while the Giants were driving in our territory. Ginn luckily didn’t go down on the first hit and got a punt return TD. Giants fumble immediately on the kickoff and we score 12 points in 2 1/2 minutes. Giants outgained us by almost 100 yards but 4 turnovers and the punt return TD doomed them.

  39. By ryan on Sep 30, 2014 | Reply

    JTDG- Unfortunatley, i do remember the basics. but thanks for the exact details. I probably stick up for players and coaches decisions a little too much because im tired of listening to most fans that want and demand instant sucess. Anything can happen at anytime in this league and I believe that Cooper will get his chance either from winning the job or injury. There are many reasons they picked him.

    Scott H- I agree with you in that passing yards do not define a QB. With that said, neither do INT’s. Im not saying that i wasnt as frustrated as everyone else with Palmers play at first. But he came through. Correct me if im wrong (I know JTDG will!) but only the fifth time since moving to the valley to be 2-0 and only the third time to be 3-0? That says something to me. Palmer is tough and cool as a cucumber when things arent going perfect. And i sure didnt mean to sound like i was slamming Erika- it was merely a question referncing our recent sucess. Did last years defense “stand out” more than the offense? Of course. Did the defense score ALL the points to beat ten other teams? Of course not.

    Erika- If Kurt Warner was “THAT” good then how did we get him? Or get Dansby back? Or Abraham? Or a whole list of others. That is life in the NFL. Palmer is by far, without question, the best QB we have had since Warner. And dont get me wrong- i want Stanton to do well. IMHO- the coaches watch these men in practice every day and make the necessary adjustments accordingly.

    P.S.- i feel like JTDG…this is my longest post ever!

    GO CARDS!!!

  40. By ryan on Sep 30, 2014 | Reply

    Scott H- the reason everyone is giving a thumbs up to that blog is because if you have watched our 3-0 start, you know damn well we could be anything but 3-0. THREE fourth qtr comebacks is amazing- but living on the edge. And very tough to do all season. Im hoping to throttle Denver like KC did last night to NE.

    Kevin S Mesa- WELL SAID!

    GO CARDS!!!

  41. By Scott H on Sep 30, 2014 | Reply

    ryan –

    3-0 is 3-0 once you’ve gotten there. Doesn’t really matter how you got there. I don’t see any astericks next to our record. Hey, how many times have we seen the Cardinals lose games they played well enough to win??? Lots during my time, that is for sure. Once the game is over, they go in one colum or the other.

    Good dialogue, and I appreciate your responses.

  42. By Scott H on Sep 30, 2014 | Reply

    Kevin S Mesa –

    RE: I like Stanton but why in the world would anyone think he is better than a guy who has been a starter in the league for over 10 years now?

    Hmm….well, why in the world would anyone have thought that a nobody named Tom Brady would be better than Drew Bledsoe? Wasn’t Bledsoe a starter in the league for several years at that point? Shouldn’t that have made him a better QB?

    Dude, what is your point??? The fact that Palmer ( who I DO like, BTW ) has been in the league much longer than Stanton has to this point has more to do with their respective dates of birth more than anything else. It ain’t like they came into the league at the same time, have played the same number of years, but Palmer has been a starter and Stanton has not. Are we holding it against Stanton that he was born several years later than Palmer?

  43. By Scott H on Sep 30, 2014 | Reply

    Kevin S Mesa –

    I have not “flipped” around at all on the topic of Carson Palmer. There is what I have actually said on that topic and there is what you have heard. I stand by the former, I have nothing to do with the latter. And speaking of what I have or have not said, I’ll thank you KNOW what I said before you comment on it. I refer to your statement of “…and I wouldn’t be surprised if Scott H was among them” and I say that maybe you should have more of a clue about what I said or didn’t before YOU have anything to say about it. Don’t speculate about what you think I probably said.

    Our defense from last year was considerably better than it was in 2012, so I think your point about our record in 2012 being 5-11 means very little. I certainly don’t discount the difference in the quality of QB play from 2012 to 2013 but those defenses were NOT equal. So, QB play does NOT account for the different outcomes by itself.

    I AM a Palmer supporter regardless of what box you want to put me in. You seem to think in black and white terms – you either love Carson Palmer or you hate him. You see it any way you want. I like Palmer but I reiterate my point from the earlier post. I am not afraid to engage in critical thinking and find faults where I believe they exist. With Palmer, the INT’s are there. Yeah, I know what the coach said. You gonna tell me that the WR’s ran the wrong routes 22 times??? The truth of the matter, as it always does, lies somewhere between. Palmer has a big arm and I LOVE that about him. But QB’s with big arms are gonna throw their fair share of INT’s because long passes lend themselves to that.

    I am not ready to put Drew Stanton on the Mt Rushmore of NFL QB’s with Manning, Brady, and Montana. He has played two games, hasn’t turned the ball over, made some damn nice throws, has taken hits, made a play or two with his legs, and the team won both games. Can’t ask a guiy to be any better than 2-0 when he has only played 2 games, can we? OK. So…while I’m not putting him on Mt Rushmore, why don’t you not assume he can’t be as good as a guy who has been a starter for the last 10 years when you, me, none of us know that for sure.

  44. By John The Draft Guy on Sep 30, 2014 | Reply

    ryan,

    I’m all for sticking up for players. And believe it or not, I don’t hate Cooper. As a card fan, I hope he does come around. That would help the team.

    The whole thing started when I kept seeing excuses for Cooper and it just didn’t fly with me. Injury, rusty, He is being beat by Campbell but Campbell is a pro bowler, another injury, a third injury, now continuity.

    To answer Darren’s original question, why has this topic gotten under my skin?
    I guess I feel, don’t piss on me and tell me it’s raining.

    I understand he was the 7th pick and you have guaranteed money that will keep him around. So level with us and say, no excuses, he just isn’t good enough, but we hope he will come around next year. I can live with that.

  45. By John The Draft Guy on Sep 30, 2014 | Reply

    ryan, kevin, erica, scott;

    Palmer vs Stanton –

    First, such a better argument than Kolb vs Skelton. Thank God we don’t have to do that anymore.

    Both QBs are benefiting from a lot of weapons around them. From the receivers to the revamped OLine, the QB is set up for success.

    I also love the game plans and the way Arians floods areas or sees something on film he exploits. (the first TD to John Brown had to be something they noticed on film)

    I think past performances with other teams, and teams releasing them, really doesn’t come into play. There are plenty of QBs who were released from multiple teams who won super bowls including our Kurt Warner.

    With that being said, I don’t think it is much of a debate of who should be the QB. Palmer is heads and shoulders above Stanton.

    Want proof? When the cards traded for Palmer, did Arians say it was going to be a QB battle or did he give the job to Palmer? When Palmer is healthy, is there any hesitation in Arians to put Palmer back in ?

    You all praise Arians and Tom Moore as great QB coaches and they have no doubt (by there actions) who is the better guy.

    Now usually I would pull out stats for Palmer and Stanton this year and some examples of plays, but I am trying to keep this short. Wait? What? too late for that.

  46. By Scott H on Sep 30, 2014 | Reply

    ryan –

    Me again. Sorry, I missed one of your posts. Yes we ARE 3-0 and that does not happen often. But….dude, Palmer wasn’t on the field for 2 of those wins.

    And despite what ANY of us thinks about Carson Palmer, perhaps we should start directing our concerns toward his health and what his availability is going to be, not just this week but over the rest of the season. He can’t throw TD’s OR INT’s if he ain’t on the field.

    And for those of you who think I “flip around.” let me be clear – I would love to see Palmer back for the game in Denver AS LONG AS he is able to make every throw the offense needs him to. That clear enough, Kevin?

  47. By Scott H on Sep 30, 2014 | Reply

    ryan –

    this dialogue may never end! Above all else, you said it ALL when you pointed out that at least we’re not talking about Kolb vs Skelton or – even worse – Anderson vs Leinart!!! Remember those dark days? Wow…man, that was horrible.

    Again, I am not anti-Palmer. I’m certainly not saying Stanton is a better QB. Although, I DO leave myself open to the possibility that he COULD be if he has a chance to play long enough to show what he CAN do.

    Two things…is the fact that there was not a QB competition between Palmer and Stanton “proof” that Palmer is head-and-shoulders better? I don’t know. I think it was “proof” that they were paying one guy a whole lot more than they were paying the other….but I get your point. Obviously, if they were all in with Stanton, they would not be trading to get Palmer.

    And what does it REALLY tell us if they go back to Palmer as soon as he is ready? Well, again, it might tell us that one guy is getting paid a lot more than the other guy and maybe they are not going to pay Carson Palmer to stand on the sidelines. It IS also a generally un-official rule in the NFL that you don’t lose your job to injury. But,again, I get your point. Yes, I am sure they will go back to Palmer and I’m sure it will be because they believe he is their best option. I don’t have a problem with that.

    Now….the question for YOU – if Stanton plays more this season and continues to play very well and the team continues to win those games, who do you think is gonna be the QB next year? Hint – at THAT point, Palmer is no longer the better option.

  48. By John The Draft Guy on Sep 30, 2014 | Reply

    Scott H,

    Salaries;
    I’ll bring up my favorite subject. Cooper. He makes 3 1/2 times more than Larsen. Who is playing? If Stanton was better, Palmer would sit.

    Next year? So many factors. Is Thomas a real prospect? Do they draft a QB next year early? Also, what is your definition of Stanton doing well? He has a 51% comp ratio and averages 205 yards a game with all the weapons we have. The team is 2-0 with him and he has no INTs, but can he match a Peyton Manning?

    I’m not sold on Drew as a long term answer. If Drew is the starter next year, that tells me Thomas or a draft pick is in the wings.

  49. By ryan on Oct 1, 2014 | Reply

    JTDG/ Scott H-
    I would like to let the record show that we agree with the contestants in this QB battle being much better than the recent past! Yeah!

    Palmer 1-0, yes. Stanton 2-0, yes. Palmer 8-2 for last 10, yes.

    Stanton comes first to start so BA must like him. Then we get Palmer and he is named starter. We all agree on that (i hope). but as far as im concerned, the competition started long before either of them were here. BA worked with Stanton in Indy. Palmer has been slingin it for years. If i am head coach this week, Palmer gets the start IF he is 100% and only if. Otherwise, you guessed it, next man up. Enter Drew. Is it possible for him to win the starting QB- sure. Ask Drew Bledsoe, or Alex Smith(un-official rule didnt apply here). Personally- I will be rooting for EITHER to get us to 4-0 and a big win over Denver!

    Jonh the Cooper guy-
    I get where you are coming from with Coop. There are politics in the NFL as well as everywhere else. Unfortunately. But he is a HUGE dude that broke his leg. These young men have extreme work outs almost every day to stay in top physical condition to be the BEST football players in the world! So im gonna cut a guy some slack in that situation when trying to come back and “knock the rust off” not to mention the turf toe when he is making that come back. I know nothing about turf toe but everybody says its nasty. Im not predicting he will be the best lineman for us but i am rooting for him to get in there and have the opportunity if he can EARN it.

    i agree with you that somebody does not get the nod to play or start because of what they are paid. In the NFL winning isnt everything, IT’S THE ONLY THING! Best players on the field to get the win.

    Scott H-
    Im assuming this was a rhetorical question- but i will respond anyway!
    “Now….the question for YOU – if Stanton plays more this season and continues to play very well and the team continues to win those games, who do you think is gonna be the QB next year? Hint – at THAT point, Palmer is no longer the better option.”

    If Stanton continues to play, and improve, and win then i would agree. He has done well, not great. I am not taking anything away from his 2 wins- i love it. He has missed open receivers by throwing long or short. I think he couldve had 4 more TD throws in those games if he had been just a hair more accurate. And had he done that, these conversations would be different and Palmer would be sweating a little bit more about losing his starting position. If he is able to start doing that now, he could end up being our long term answer!

    GO CARDS!!!

  50. By Scott H on Oct 1, 2014 | Reply

    JTDG –

    I hope you are right when you say that if Stanton is the better QB, then he will play. That is the way it SHOULD be. You know that with QB’s, it does not always go that way. Money talks in this world. And teams struggle with having their high-paid starters standing on the sidelines. Josh McCown was playing at an all-world level for the Bears last year for several weeks while Cutler was hurt. When Cutler was ready to come back, Cutler was the starter again. When RGIII is ready to come back this year, he will be the starter again even if Kirk Cousins has played better.

    My definition of Stanton playing well? Really? 2-0 as the starter and no turnovers by the QB so far seems like a pretty good definition to me. NOTHING kills a team more than TO’s and mistakes. And Stanton hasn’t been making them. If you prefer to look at completion percentage and yards per game…OK. Can’t help ya there.

    Can he match a Peyton Manning? Maybe. Maybe not. I guess we’ll know by Sunday night. And I’m pretty sure a lot of damn good QB’s have not been able to match Manning during his career, so…is that the end-all / be-all here?

    I think the fact that you have already decided that if Stanton is the starter next year, then it will have more to do with Thomas not being ready than anything else says a lot about your view of this matter. You’ve already decided that Stanton is not the guy, so how willing are you to see his strengths right now?

  51. By John The Draft Guy on Oct 1, 2014 | Reply

    Scott H,

    I haven’t said he is not the guy. Stanton may surprise.
    From what I have seen, I do not believe he is a long term answer for the cardinals.

    So, if he was the starter next year because of his play, I would make sure I was grooming a young backup.

    But hey, look at the list of superbowl winning QBs. You will see some stars but you also will see guys who didn’t have great careers.

    Turnovers, or the lack of them, is huge. But that also is a sign of not pushing the ball down the field. Warner threw plenty of INTs, so has Peyton. Safe works for a backup. Don’t lose the game. My Manning reference of matching him was more, if it comes down to it, can Stanton Win games on a consistent manner and not just manage games. That is what will determine to me if he is a starter.

    Cutler is the star QB and face of the franchise. If you sit a healthy Cutler, you are going to have a guy wanting out and a split locker room. I don’t think it was about money. Good thing the bears didn’t go with McCown. He is horrible in Tampa.

    As for RG3 / Cousins; Cousins plays well, then is really bad. I think he has to string together several good games before considered the guy. I really don’t think money comes into play. RG3 could fizzle, or he could make the skins very sad for letting him go. Time will tell out there, but I’m not sure I am one to give up on RG3.

  52. By Kevin S Mesa on Oct 1, 2014 | Reply

    Scott H —

    I’m not trying to put you in a box. I’m happy to engage in critical thinking. I’m happy to point out Palmer’s flaws.

    But there are reasonable debates and there are made-up debates. In response to your original post about not feeling confident in Palmer (those were your words), Erika agreed with you and went so far as to say he “fell short” last season and that we should just turn the reins over to Stanton.

    I’m glad we have Stanton on our team but if you asked 100 NFL coaches, scouts, players, etc. who should be QB’ing for the Cardinals, 100 would say Palmer. Which you agree with. Erika does not. She’s basically creating a debate where there is none.

    A couple of us called her on it as her opinion — which she is entitled to — is ludicrous. I have no problem with people expressing their opinions on this blog; that’s what it’s for. But if I came on here and said that I thought Carson Palmer was the best QB in the NFL, that would be a ridiculous opinion and I should be skewered. Well, Erika got skewered because her opinion is way out there… she’s assigning Palmer to the scrap heap while asserting that Stanton is a Super Bowl QB. She really did sound like the people who a couple years ago kept insisting on this blog that Skelton was our franchise QB.

    You then came rushing to her defense, saying “I find it ridiculous that I and some others ( Erica, in this case ) get slammed just because we aren’t afraid to see something for what it is.” I’m not sure what you meant by this but Erika got slammed precisely because she does NOT see “something for what it is,” but rather sees a completely different, non-existent reality in which Palmer is washed up and should be replaced by Stanton. To believe this you have to believe Bruce Arians, Tom Moore et al. are stupid and that your trained TV eye has it all figured out. When you say things like this on a blog you’re going to get called on it.

    I apologize if I incorrectly implied that you have flip-flopped on Carson Palmer, although I would bet money that if I went back into this blog, you would be whining about his interceptions and so forth all through the first half of last year, and then changing your tune later. Some of us had confidence in him the entire time, and still do. Even this year, you acknowledge you lack confidence because he didn’t look sharp in the preseason, and you “need” to see him have that “great game”? The first game of the season in which he completed 65% of his passes for over 300 yards with 2 TD’s and no INT’s and a QBR over 100 doesn’t inspire confidence, but Stanton is playing well. Seems to me you’re holding the two to different standards. And yet you say you’re a Palmer supporter. Well, I guess that’s hedging your bets.

  53. By Erika M on Oct 1, 2014 | Reply

    I wasn’t trying to start a debate or put anyone’s opinion down, but I state MY opinion to ONE person and everyone wants to jump down my throat and even insult me. When I said decade I didn’t mean age, Palmer has been a starter for 10 years Stanton has been second for 6, therefore if he becomes a starter now he has 6 years to get it done. It’s that simple. I have been watching Palmer play and it is frustrating to watch as a fan who knows this team can be great. But whatever will be, will be…

  54. By Erika M on Oct 1, 2014 | Reply

    Oh BTW I meant 4 not 6 years to get it done…

  55. By Scott H on Oct 2, 2014 | Reply

    JTDG –

    I appreciate your thoughts. At this point, I’ve worn myself out talking about Palmer and Stanton. But I think Stanton CAN and HAS pushed the ball downfield. Not to the same extent that a healthy Palmer would. But he has. Perhaps we will see more going forward.

    I hesitate to call Cutler a star. In name, maybe. Over the years, his play has not been star caliber. McCown HAS been terrible in Tampa. But look at the differences in the weaponry. In Chicago, with THOSE WR’s, McCown was tearing it up. And he LOOKED like better QB than Cutler when he played. But, no, I hardly believe McCown is a better QB than Cutler.

    Be well, sir. Moving on to Sunday!

  56. By Scott H on Oct 2, 2014 | Reply

    Kevin S Mesa –

    I appreciate your thoughts as well. I didn’t really need a summary of the posts and who said what. I wasn’t rushing to anyone’s defense. I was defending my own position and, yes, I mentioned Erika because I saw someone not afraid to speak what she BELIEVED was the truth even though it was not gonna go over well.

    So…to believe what I believe, I have to think that BA and his people are stupid? I have no idea what that means. But it sounds ridiculous. Yet another box you want to put me in based on your views. And since I absolutely DO NOT think that, I’m not gonna bother taking this any further.

    I’m holding Palmer and Stanton to different standards? Ya know what? Maybe at some point, I am. That may be true. And you aren’t doing the same thing yourself? Yes. I think you are. That is probably why this debate / discussion – as much as I have enjoyed it – just keeps going on and on.

    And let me save ya the time and trouble – I WAS having an issue with the INT’s Palmer was throwing in the first half of last year. AT THAT TIME, he was throwing as many INT’s as TD’s. If you weren’t having a problem with that AT THAT TIME, fine. If that was inspiring confidence in you AT THAT TIME, fine. I became more confident AFTER I saw better performance. Why that is so un-reasonable to your way of thinking is beyond me.

    You seem to base your opinions on what we know after the fact. That’s fine. But it’s also pretty safe. You seem to criticize what others were thinking / saying at certain points in time ( ie the first half of last season ) and point out how foolish it was to ever think that way. I suppose I could do the same. But I won’t because that is just too easy. I am going to react to what I am seeing at the time I am seeing it. IMHO, that is what most football fans tend to do. But if that doesn’t make sense to you, then we’ll continue to see things differently. Fine with me.

    I’m tired of beating this into the ground. Be well. Moving on to Sunday!

  57. By Kevin S Mesa on Oct 2, 2014 | Reply

    Scott H — thanks.

    #1, I was not saying you think BA and his people are stupid. I was saying that someone who believes Stanton is a Super Bowl QB and that Palmer is washed up must believe that. The sentence “To believe this you have to believe Bruce Arians, Tom Moore et al. are stupid…” came after a discussion of Erika’s views. I wasn’t trying to attribute this view to you.

    #2, yes, I hold Stanton to a different standard than Palmer. Palmer is the starter, Stanton is the backup. So I have no problem with people saying things like “Stanton played well, for a backup” or “Stanton exceeded my expectations.” I only objected when certain people started saying, in effect, Stanton should replace Palmer — if you’re going to say that, then you have to compare them as equals, not as starter vs. backup. Especially considering that the basis for that opinion was two games, one in which he was mediocre at best, in which the offense scored one TD and our net yards passing were 142. But yes, we won the game… because the Giants handed it to us with turnovers and allowing a punt return TD. I will agree that Stanton didn’t do anything to cause us to lose the game — and for that I give him credit — but I don’t allow myself to be deluded into thinking that was a “good” QB performance either. “Good enough for a backup” — fine, but that’s a lot different from asserting he’s better than Palmer, or a Super Bowl QB. When fans start looking solely at the results of games to determine who our QB should be, we end up with an argument that Skelton should be our QB in 2012 (because, after all, he was our QB when we won all those games in 2011), or that Tebow should be the QB somewhere because, after all, he was Denver’s QB when they were 1-5 or whatever it was and “led” them to the playoffs.

    I’ll leave it at that. I think we can all agree that, whether it’s Stanton or Palmer, we want to win Sunday, so let’s move on.

  58. By Scott H on Oct 2, 2014 | Reply

    Kevin –

    I hear ya, man. Let’s move on. BIG game Sunday. Time to get into the fox hole. You with me?

  59. By Kevin S Mesa on Oct 2, 2014 | Reply

    I’m there. And if Stanton is our QB Sunday, you can be sure I will be cheering from my couch as loudly as if it were Palmer — even if it means another round of debates about whether we even need Palmer in the first place.

  60. By Scott H on Oct 3, 2014 | Reply

    Kevin –

    Amen to that. Just like brothers…we’ll go at each other and tear the room apart but as soon as someone from the outside ( the Broncos right now ) comes near and poses a threat, forget it. Then it’s like NOBODY messes with my brother!

    And, yes, we DO need Palmer. We needed him in the first place and we need him now. For me, there is no debate there. I wish he were starting this week, I really do.

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