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Hall nominees with Cards ties, and Keim’s story

Posted by Darren Urban on November 19, 2014 – 11:06 am

The Pro Football Hall of Fame has whittled its potential 2015 class to 26 names, and included in there are a three major contributors to the Cardinals over the years. One is coach Don Coryell, who was the man in charge of the Cards’ teams of the mid-1970s that was successful enough that every time the current team hits a win plateau or streak, it seems to date back to one of Coryell’s squads. The other two are part of the Cards’ Super Bowl team: quarterback Kurt Warner, and running back Edgerrin James.

(Cowboys safety Darren Woodson, who went to high school at Phoenix Maryvale, is also part of the group.)

James is probably a long shot to advance to the group of 15 that will be considered when the Hall selection committee gets together in Phoenix on Super Bowl eve to eventually name no more than five to the Hall of Fame. Coryell has got a better chance, I’d think, given his offensive innovations, especially coaching the Chargers in the late 1970s and early 1980s. Then there is Warner, who given his resume, figures to get into the Hall at some point. It would be fitting if that was this year — Warner’s first year of eligibility — with the class being named in Arizona.

— He’s not headed to the Hall of Fame anytime soon, but Steve Keim has worked hard for a long time to reach his goal of being a general manager. If you haven’t yet, check out my story about Keim’s belief even as a little kid he’d end up running a team.

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Posted in Blog | 27 Comments »


27 Responses to “Hall nominees with Cards ties, and Keim’s story”

  1. By Dynosoar on Nov 19, 2014 | Reply

    Since to be in the Hall of Fame, the level of play is to be such that the player has a significant impact as well as their impact off the field.

    Given that both the Rams and the Cardinals were marginal at best the years prior to Warner’s playing, Super Bowl attendees during his playing and marginal at best after his departure, He’s a Hall of Famer by that count alone.

    This doesn’t include his stat line, like having thrown for the 1st, 2nd and 3rd most yards in Super Bowl history. And it doesn’t include all he’s done off the field.

    This man had impact wherever he played. I also remember in the very first show of “A Football Life” Fitzgerald was interviewed and said one day Kurt asked him if he wanted to be the best, not the best, but if he wanted to be the best ever? Larry stated it made him think and it made him change his approach.

    Kurt Warner had impact and I daresay still does.

    If Rice is a first rounder, then how can Warner not be?

  2. By Dynosoar on Nov 19, 2014 | Reply

    This is not HoF discussion, but here it is.

    We have three things going for our Cardinals I’m not seeing in many other teams in the games I’ve watched.

    1. The best defense in the League. I know, I know, everyone says it’s the Lions, I’d like to see Red Zone defense and game ending defense stats of all teams. I’m confident we’re the best. (I haven’t found the stats yet, so I can’t say definitively, but we shut other teams down.) Our defense shuts down other teams offenses. Bring on the Packers, I’d love to watch that game.

    2. We don’t give lip service to next man up, We Live It!

    3. We don’t game plan around other teams weaknesses, we attack their strengths and we win. What other team is attacking strengths instead of weaknesses? there may be some, but we are one that does. Best running game, shut it down. Johnson and Tate, shut them down. The list goes on and on.

    Does anyone truly believe (and you may and you have a lot of history to believe) that when we stop Lynch as we did Murray and we score against the “Legion” that Seattle will keep composure? I see them falling apart and the 12th man as we’ve learned before is silent when the Seahawks are having their wings clipped.

    We should have a decibel check done at UofP and compare it to Seattle’s stadium, with and without the roof open.

  3. By NickPepe on Nov 19, 2014 | Reply

    That was a great piece on our GM. He obviously paid his dues and he has earned the respect of his peers, subordinates and bosses alike (a tough trifecta to accomplish).

    I think Kurt is a shoe-in, but I am really pulling for Coach Coryell. He really was the first coach I got attached to (for lack of a better term). The memories of Jim Hart slinging it to Mel Gray, Ike Harris and Pat Tilley- Terry Metcalf scampering out of the backfield (I always worried about him fumbling the ball away!). The Good old days. He also did a great job in San Diego with Dan Fouts as well. But man it was fun with Air Coryell and the original “Cardiac Cards ”

    Not sure Edge is hall worthy.

    Can’t wait for the “Friday before” of what I think is the biggest game of the season. We have a chance to start closing the doors on an NFC West title.

    Nick Pepe
    Lifetime Member ’70-’71

  4. By BirdsSTC on Nov 19, 2014 | Reply

    Great story about Steve Keim. Riveting.

  5. By Mike G on Nov 19, 2014 | Reply

    Hey Darren–Hope all is cool!–It should be with the Card’s at 9-1. I would really like to see Coryell and Warner get into the HOF. Especially Coryell –he was a coach that was ahead of his time. Coming from SD State in the early 70’s–he developed a passing game that the NFL has not seen before. He was a coach that really had influence on others–including Gibbs, Vermeal & Madden. It is ashame he did not have playoff success and that is what has held him out to this point. Ashame he passed away a few years back. Would love to see him get in!!
    Warner has had an interesting career– a great start and a great finish and average in the middle of his playing career. Interesting how he flourished under Vermeal and Whisenhunt and not so great under other coaches. Darren–Do you think Warner played long enough to get in?????

  6. By Darren Urban on Nov 19, 2014 | Reply

    Mike G —

    RE: Warner

    I do think his body of work, and getting two struggling franchises to the Super Bowl, makes him a strong candidate.

  7. By Scott H on Nov 19, 2014 | Reply

    Well, with James, we obviously know that if he ever gets in, it will be almost entirely on the strength of what he did with the Colts. But while many outside the circle of Cardinals fans probably don’t know / don’t care, I think he DID make a significant contribution to the post-season run that got us to the SB in 2008. I will ALWAYS remember the way he ran during that first drive against Philly in the NFC title game. He was a beast!

    Warner, to me is somewhat the opposite scenario – he had great years elsewhere but if not for his great years WITH the Cardinals at the end….does he even get nominated? Maybe not. What he did with the Cardinals might be what actually gets him there. But I think he’s in for sure. He should be. Just a matter of when.

    Coryell? My gosh, you have to wonder if what he did truly resonates today simply because it was so long ago. He was truly an innovative offensive mind. I’d like to see him get there.

  8. By georgiebird on Nov 19, 2014 | Reply

    Coach Coryell was an innovator, a disciple of the AFL’s Sid Gilman. DC brought the wide open passing style to the NFL-first with the Cardinals and Jim Hart and then to the Chargers and Dan Fouts. What made Coryell successful with the Cards was spotting a speedy running back at Long Beach State named Terry Metcalf when Don coached at San Diego St.
    But like Larry Wilson who popularized the safety blitz, Coryell was mostly an innovator not necessarily a top-flite HC. Coryell never understood defense or the importance of a good defense- his teams never made it to the SuperBowl.
    Overall, BA is a better HC than Coryell- but Coryell was still a very good Cardinals’ HC, but mostly an innovator and, therefore, deserving of the HOF.
    Air-Coryell is still referenced today. (it means the vertical passing game)

  9. By georgiebird on Nov 19, 2014 | Reply

    Darren,
    Just a thought but some other blogs have the option of listing the newest comments first. I wonder if there was a chance that a similar option could be offered here. I think it might help stimulate the discussion as the new comments come in.

  10. By Darren Urban on Nov 19, 2014 | Reply

    Georgie —

    RE: Newest at top

    Changed. We’ll see how it goes.

  11. By Dynosoar on Nov 19, 2014 | Reply

    Personally, I’ve always liked this format with the newest thread at the bottom, I think it’s easier to follow the thread of conversation top down.

    That said, If it’s a trial run, I’ll give it a try.

    I just read an awesome article on Bruce Arians on NFL.com. This should be read by everyone here

    http://www.nfl.com/CardinalRule

    This added to the articles we get from Darren and Kyle really paints a picture of why our Cardinals are 9-1 and going on to most probably being the first team ever to host a Super Bowl. We’re the oldest team, the first team, so it’s only fitting we should be the first to do this.

    The real question, most Super Bowl teams don’t return to even the playoffs the following season, but I believe BA has different plans.

    How many years will he continuously take our team to such heights. Time will tell.

    The Lombardi trophy or nothing at all!

  12. By georgiebird on Nov 19, 2014 | Reply

    Darren,
    Thanks for the response for “newest first”.

  13. By Darren Urban on Nov 20, 2014 | Reply

    Georgie —

    RE: Newest

    Yeah, well, I thought I changed it but it doesn’t seem to be kicking in. I’ll see what I can do.

  14. By Coach K on Nov 20, 2014 | Reply

    Air Coryell changed the game. He was an offensive guru that was a master of flooding the passing zones with more players than the defense could cover. A brilliant football chess player. As for Warner, he is the picture of rags to riches. From grocery store bagger to arena league star, to Superbowl quarterback for two teams with little history of success. Warner is the classic American story of “Never Giving Up”. He is a lock to make the HOF.

  15. By clssylssy on Nov 20, 2014 | Reply

    Nice article on Keim, and Kent Sommers did a great article on BA as well (which can be seen on NFL.com as the lead story (at the moment). It seems a little premature to begin talking HOF for Keim after only two seasons as a GM, whatever his back story. With GMs it’s even more about the body of work and how they impact the sport, and in that sense Keim has just dipped his toe and has a LONG road ahead of him. His story will depend on how many titles the Cards can amass during his tenure, so in a sense his first year doesn’t really count.
    As for Kurt Warner, I believe he will make it on the first ballot because of his story,and image as a wholesome good guy who has helped preserve the integrity of the shield during some pretty dark days. His time in St. Louis and Arizona wouldn’t have been possible without the guys around him and, I think, four of his teammates in St. Louis have also been nominated…nonetheless, his nomination embodies the personna the NFL wants people to associate with the game. James may make it in at some point, not now,but it is harder for Coaches and GMs so I don’t think Coach Coryell will be a first ballot inductee…could be wrong.
    The travesty in the HOF selection is that often guys like BA miss because, despite their body of work and contributions to the sport, they didn’t get the recognition by the league until the twilight of their career…a too little, too late situation
    An interesting fact in Kent Sommers’ story was that BA only came here at the encouragement of Ken Whisenhunt and the glowing things he had to say about the Bidwills, the Cardinals team, and the people. Wow…to think, we are indebt to the same guy, many fans love to bash (but took us to the SB and Division Champs thereafter) and still has had a hand in where we are today!

  16. By Darren Urban on Nov 20, 2014 | Reply

    Clssy —

    RE: NFL.com B.A. article

    I count Kent Somers as one of my good friends, but Michael Silver wrote the NFL.com piece.

  17. By clssylssy on Nov 20, 2014 | Reply

    Darren…thanks for correcting that, my bad. I’ve seen the story carried several places and guess I automatically associate anything so “in the know” with either you or Kent Somers, as you are usually the guys with the inside scoop or who have a more up close perspective.

  18. By georgiebird on Nov 20, 2014 | Reply

    Darren,
    Sorry you’re having a hard time implementing the the “newest first” concept. With the Cards winning, I would hate to recommend any change.
    But just to clarify what I meant by “newest first” option. On some blogs, the reader (us) has the choice of “newest first” or “newest last” .
    Within the blog and on the screen, there would be a choice offered to the reader either “newest first” or “newest last” and we would make the choice based on our preference.
    I would hate to upset someone like Dynosoar who would rather see the most current comments buried at the bottom.
    The last comments on a particular subject seem to get very little response as far as “thumbs up or down” no matter how provocative the post may be.

  19. By Darren Urban on Nov 20, 2014 | Reply

    Georgie —

    RE: Newest

    Well, I don’t know if I have to ability to give that option.

  20. By Dynosoar on Nov 20, 2014 | Reply

    Georgiebird,

    I’m not upset in the least. I’m good with giving something new a try. I know I like things the way they are, but I’m good with your thought of trying something new to improve the experience.

    that’s why I gave you a thumbs up (although, you didn’t know it was me.)

    And your correct, the thumbs (and probably the amount of comments read) are the ones at the top. Although, I sometimes think there are only a few of us that actually return to articles to see if more comments have been written.

    I do like that someone would have the option and stated why I do like the current format…

    I stated above, I’m willing to give this a try.

    I gave your last comment a thumbs up as well. (The soar part of my name is from my Scoutmaster days, I always tried to get my Scouts to soar like eagles, not the Philly kind, just had one of my Scouts earn his Eagle. I like when we are empowered and try to improve things.) Ok, if you’ve read this far ya’ll know I’m not upset, so I’ll be quiet.

    The Lombardi trophy or nothing at all!

  21. By Kevin S Mesa on Nov 20, 2014 | Reply

    The reason the last posts on a topic get fewer thumbs up/down is that as Darren posts more blog entries, people take their conversations to the latest entry. A few times, I’ve had long conversations with Scott H or JTDG where we keep bantering back and forth on an older entry, but I suspect no one else is reading those because the entry is not even on the main screen any more. That’s no different that comments on Yahoo articles or anything else… at some point, people just get bored.

    I don’t really care one way or the other that much, but if the newer comments were posted at the top it would be easier to figure out if there’s anything new. Now I click on an older entry and scroll all the way to the bottom and realize there’s no new discussion.

  22. By Dynosoar on Nov 20, 2014 | Reply

    Kevin S Mesa,

    I used to scroll to the bottom as well, then I realized if I just remember the number of comments, the previous/newest amount is listed directly below the last picture of the article. Then if I remember 19 comments and it says 21, I scroll down; but if it still reads 19 I move on.

    Sometimes my memory is faulty and I scroll down and nothing is new, but it works for me. I also carry comments to newer articles if I’m involved in discussion, believing they may be missed if I don’t.

    I really enjoy this comment board. Top to bottom or bottom to top, I’ll stay the course or adapt.

    The Lombardi trophy or nothing at all.

  23. By Buck on Nov 20, 2014 | Reply

    Please stay with the present system – newest last.

  24. By Dynosoar on Nov 20, 2014 | Reply

    Darren,

    I don’t know if you can (based on your statement that you don’t know), but I do like the idea of choice and if we could have a choice of viewing (top to bottom or bottom to top scrolling) that’d be cool.

    Back to my first post, there’s a valid debate around if someone should ever be a “first ballot” Hall of Famer, but the precedent was set a few years ago with two getting in on their first ballot in the same year…

    AND if anyone is deserving of being inducted on their first ballot, it’s Kurt Warner.

  25. By JohnnyBluenose on Nov 20, 2014 | Reply

    Kevin S Mesa….I’m like you. I go back and read older posts because I may have read something interesting that I hoped would have provoked interest and comments from others. But usually people have moved on to the newer posts and so, I think, an opportunity gets missed for people to share an opinion with others. That’s just the way it is. And I like to read things in chronological order so reading the newest posts first seems a bit weird to me.

  26. By TucsonTim on Nov 20, 2014 | Reply

    My son and I were driving to a game years ago before the 2009 season and Kurt was being interviewed on Cardinals talk. He said something I never forgot, because I thought the guy was totally delusional. He said he only kept playing because he wanted to go back to the Super Bowl. Really? On the Cardinals?

    Then by god in 2009 the Cards went to the super bowl. Usually coaches, owners and GMs get the credit for turning around a franchise. But after studying Kurt, his books, NFL “A football life”, press clips, etc; I have to say that this man, this great man, was the force that brought change to the Cardinals.

    Yes, they caught some lightening in a bottle and even in his Ring of Honor induction speech he had to bust a little on Collinsworth for taking the “worst playoff team ever” to the super bowl.

    That’s what leaders of men do. They make them believe they are capable of even more than they ever thought possible.

    Kurt’s previous MVP seasons and super bowl ring already proved that he had the skill set to compete on the field. The 2009 super bowl season showed that he possessed an even greater skill. He elevated everyone around him. Kurt Warner single handedly changed the culture of the worst franchise in the history of professional sports.

    Kurt Warner is a Hall of Flame person, which is much higher praise than simply being a Hall of Fame Player.

  27. By clssylssy on Nov 20, 2014 | Reply

    WOW! Didn’t know format was such a biggie LOL! I think most fans who follow this thread will figure it out, and it’s the content that most have an opinion about rather than in what order it’s presented. Kinda sounds like a control issue…

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