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Thomas goes to Dolphins; No claims for Cards

Posted by Darren Urban on September 6, 2015 – 1:07 pm

There is no official news from the Cardinals today. Multiple outlets reported a total of 27 waiver claims after final cuts around the league, and the Cardinals don’t look like they were awarded any players. (The Cards may have claimed someone but were trumped in the waiver wire; the Cards are 24th in line for waiver claims.) So that means as of right now, the 53-man roster will remain as is, which is something of an upset.

Two players the Cardinals released were claimed. Quarterback Logan Thomas was taken by the Dolphins, while undrafted rookie safety Harold Jones-Quartey was grabbed by the Bears. That means both are on those team’s respective 53-man rosters. Thomas joins Ryan Tannehill and Matt Moore with the Dolphins and will go in as the third QB. Jones-Quartey was likely going to be asked to come back to the Cards’ practice squad. Thomas’ time with the Cards was done, a point underscored when the team traded for Matt Barkley.

The same goes for QB Phillip Sims, who also went unclaimed. With Barkley, I’d be shocked if there was a fourth QB kept on the practice squad. Now, if Barkley isn’t what they wanted, could I see them releasing him later and bringing Sims back to the practice squad? Maybe. But for now, I just don’t see them keeping four QBs around.

With only two guys being claimed, it gives the Cards a lot of options for possibilities of the practice squad. For all the pre-cut fears that I was hearing from the fan base, guys like WR Jaxon Shipley, LB Gabe Martin, CB Cariel Brooks and even RB Kerwynn Williams are still out there and no one wanted them for the 53-man roster. I would not be surprised to see all four on the practice squad. We’ll see. I don’t expect the Cards to name their practice squad until Monday.

LoganClaimed


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Posted in Blog | 65 Comments »


65 Responses to “Thomas goes to Dolphins; No claims for Cards”

  1. By Mike in Mesa on Sep 6, 2015 | Reply

    What round pick did the Dolphins have to give up for a better QB than Barkley?

  2. By Darren Urban on Sep 6, 2015 | Reply

    Mike in Mesa —

    RE: Pick

    Perhaps you are missing the obvious — the Cardinals were moving on from Thomas. Regardless of Barkley’s arrival.

  3. By Dr. G. on Sep 6, 2015 | Reply

    Well…as predictable, Logan is gone super quick…perhaps he will get the recognition deserved and an opportunity for success. Why do I detest the CBA’s limits for time for developmental training? Happy trails Logan.

    Now to check the QBs that may be in the 2016 draft…don’t quit SK.

    Still praising Palmer for working so hard to return…Game time Cards Fans..!

  4. By Big Ken on Sep 6, 2015 | Reply

    I don’t see Barkley staying or lasting six weeks. I’m not a profootball talent evaluator. I’m happy for Logan Thomas, the coaching staff seemed to sour on him quickly. And we have a lot of smart people who run this team. Good luck to Logan.

  5. By Sqhead on Sep 6, 2015 | Reply

    I have no facts to back this up, but I would imagine there are more UDFA’s in the league than 7 th round picks. People posting are getting awfully upset about a QB that one short year ago was called a bad pick by most.

  6. By Ven on Sep 6, 2015 | Reply

    I dont get why people are so bummed about Logan.
    he had a decent pre-season not great specially against the Raiders. he was our 3rd string qb. I cant say that I like the Barkley pick up but again he is our 3rd string qb. Low risk flier on a qb not like its going to be all gloom and doom if barkley fails.

  7. By Garth Short on Sep 6, 2015 | Reply

    If we don’t claim a CB, I’m guessing that we are interested in a vet, and will wait until after the first game to sign him, so that we don’t have to guarantee his salary. But I also, wouldn’t be surprised if we do put in a claim for a rookie. And speaking of the first game, I’m guessing that the Cat Man better kick well against NO or we might sign Nick Novak.

  8. By Duane Spencer on Sep 6, 2015 | Reply

    My connections with being on a football field ended in 1967…a long time ago, and while I may watch a game and think “wow” this guy is amazing. It is the observation of a novice. Not a lot in common between a (poor) linebacker in small small small school and a modern coach or talent scout. So while I was impressed with some of the players that we cut, I must trust the judgement of the Cardinals staff. Stopping to think about it, Logan went to a small(ish) school and was drafted late as a project. Matt Barkley was recruited for and played for USC, which, no matter what you think of the Trojans, is a powerhouse now and almost always has been. So he’s got something, and if BA can bring that something our of Barkley,then I’m all for it. If BA can’t, no loss to the team and both the Cards and the QB can move on.

  9. By Areg on Sep 6, 2015 | Reply

    Darren,
    Hate when people ask questions like this about EVERY PLAYER THAT IS RELEASED so sorry in advance.
    Any chance you see Cards showing interest in ILB Mason Foster who was just released. Seems like a solid player but what’s the feel around the organization about the ILB depth. Thank for the coverage!

  10. By Darren Urban on Sep 7, 2015 | Reply

    Areg —

    RE: Mason Foster

    I have not heard that name. I don’t think the Cards claimed anyone, so guys being signed will likely be PS.

  11. By John The Draft Guy on Sep 6, 2015 | Reply

    Dr G,

    Going to a team like the Dolphins , who have a young talented Franchise QB, Thomas will see next to no time. I don’t see how he gets recognition nor does he get success. The best thing that happens for Thomas is he can hang on as a number 3.

  12. By georgiebird on Sep 6, 2015 | Reply

    Darren,
    Cards did a good job of cutting down to 53.
    For the Dolphins to keep Logan Thomas on their 53 man roster is unbelievable. The Dolphins play in what should be a very competitive division with some very good HCs. The Dolphins have not won anything in a while and will now spot the other teams another QB on their 53 man roster. What did they see in Thomas that made them use up a much needed spot on their 53 man roster?

  13. By Mike in Mesa on Sep 6, 2015 | Reply

    Perhaps you missed the sarcasm.lol. Needless to say Im a Logan Thomas fan and think this was a mistake.

  14. By tkm on Sep 6, 2015 | Reply

    just making conversation,but after what happened last year with our 3rd string qb,one would think someone like logan would at least have another year under his belt in system,barkley has nothing.if we go to him it will be as bad as lindley.this is just from fan,i don’t know day to day ops,just thinking with 2 qb that didn’t finish last year it would have made more sense to keep logan.3rd string quarterbacks are not staters but with palmer and drew,a 3rd string qb is likely to play with there injury history.i see barkley gone and cards getting someone else.

  15. By John The Draft Guy on Sep 6, 2015 | Reply

    Darren,

    After reading through the cuts, I understand why the cards have made no claims.

    I have seen some Dlineman, but none are better than what we have.

    I have seen a lot of people yelling for Jonas Gray. Not sure why. Gray came on strong in weeks 8-11 and put up 320 yards in 3 games, he went to practice late was benched and in the remaining 6 games, put up 80 total yards. Then was cut this year. Screams a talented headache to me.
    Besides, whose carries does he take? David Johnson’s ?? Pass.

    I think there is only one obvious spot they are looking but it might be tough, and that is CB.

    Darren, with 3 CBs, it makes sense to bring one in. But would it be more likely to see a young , released player OR a seasoned vet like a Carlos Rodgers or Ike Taylor.

  16. By rod on Sep 6, 2015 | Reply

    Darren

    RE Moving on

    Why on earth would they move on from LT to Barkley? You’ve seen them both play right?

  17. By Darren Urban on Sep 7, 2015 | Reply

    Rod —

    RE: Thomas to Barkley

    Yes. But more importantly, the Cardinals have seen LT. Again, people keep making a direct parallel. The Cards were done with LT, and I think they had known for a while Thomas hadn’t made the jump they had been looking for. Barkley happens to be the next guy they are checking out.

    For the same reason the Dolphins are taking a flier on Thomas, the Cards are doing the same on Barkley. Neither one looks like he has worked out, but another coach thinks he might be able to make it work.

  18. By Andrew on Sep 6, 2015 | Reply

    Robert Nelson, Former ASU and Cleveland Brown defensive back posted on instagram that he has been signed to the Cardinals.

  19. By Patrick Hoog aka Don't Take Losses on Sep 6, 2015 | Reply

    Wonder if Barkley is auditioning for #2 next year (is Drew up then?), with the Cards looking to draft a QB again then?

  20. By Jerry on Sep 6, 2015 | Reply

    Thomas is a stand-up guy and a super athlete, but he’ll never be a starting QB in the NFL. Way too inconsistent. Barkley???……yet another mediocre Trojan QB.

  21. By Mandy Sierra on Sep 6, 2015 | Reply

    Im just wondering what QB guru Arians was thinking getting L.Thomas in the 4th round ? I guess coaching doesnt make one a better QB…………..

  22. By TucsonTim on Sep 6, 2015 | Reply

    Perhaps you are missing the obvious, Philly was moving on from Barkley…but they might actually get something for him.

  23. By Darren Urban on Sep 7, 2015 | Reply

    Tucson —

    RE: Get something for Barkley

    And if they do, it’s because the Cardinals like what they see in Barkley over six weeks — so it’d be worth a seventh-round pick.

  24. By NJAzCardsFan on Sep 6, 2015 | Reply

    Darren- Did Dockett get picked up by anyone…???

  25. By Darren Urban on Sep 7, 2015 | Reply

    NJAz —

    RE: Dockett

    Not yet.

  26. By TucsonTim on Sep 6, 2015 | Reply

    And if you wanted to give up a 7th round pick why not Nick Easton for our shaky center situation. Easton was PFF no 1 center by a long shot. Better that we lock down that no. 3 QB than sure up what was a very suspect OL…really?

  27. By Bill on Sep 6, 2015 | Reply

    For anybody mad that Thomas is gone, who cares. You act like the guy was a 1st round pick. If he was going to be the qb of the future we would have saw a lot of good things from him by now.

  28. By liquidchaoss on Sep 6, 2015 | Reply

    Obviously I dunno what is going on behind the scenes, but I feel there are players out there that have been cut from other teams that could help bolster the Cardinals team right now and I dont see anything being done. One main position is punter, there is at least 2 good punters out there that are WAY better then Butler. Punting was a big issue last year and these punters are very good at pinning the other team but also they have what Butler doesn’t have and that’s a powerful leg, for when the Cards go 3 and out deep in their own territory and they need a punt to get them out of that.

  29. By cards62 on Sep 6, 2015 | Reply

    Yes Darren I definitely was thinking Shipley would get picked up and still do as injuries happen during the year. I am also a little surprised CB C. Brooks was not picked up. I am very glad these guys and Martin and Williams will be on our practice squad, and I hope you will be shocked and we add Sims to our practice squad, I do not know if Sims will be an NFL QB, but I think he showed some good things in camp so no reason not to keep him around.

    Go Cards and in 7 days beat those Saints

  30. By Daniel Thompson on Sep 6, 2015 | Reply

    Our WR’s………..11,12,13,14,15…….anybody else notice? LOL

  31. By krehbieo14 on Sep 6, 2015 | Reply

    I’m baffled that no team picked up Shipley, Williams or Gabe Martin off the waiver wire. I was hoping that Shipley would beat out Golden on our 53 man roster. I think he has a higher ceiling and eventually will make an impact for the Cards as a receiver and special teams player.

  32. By Credit Card on Sep 6, 2015 | Reply

    Card fans:

    Remember: what happens in the locker room … stays in the locker room.

    We fans have no idea about locker room issue(s) player personalities, and how well the players prepare and take this game seriously.

    On another topic … Tom Brady and the Pats allowing two low lying staffers to take the blame and being indefinitely suspended. In my book, Brady and the Pats organization are simply not a stands up man. This speaks volumes about the Pat’s organization and leadership.

  33. By Coach K on Sep 6, 2015 | Reply

    Mike,

    B.A. knew last year that Thomas did not have what it takes. I have said for an entire year that you don’t go from receiver to quarterback in college and have the years of training required to play quarterback in the NFL. It was a good experiment because of Logan’s size and arm strength, but if you don’t have the multiple years of eye coordination, touch, and just playing the game from middle school onward, it’s impossible to develop those timing skills by waving a magic wand. Barkley on the other hand has been playing QB since pee wee football. He’s learned those subtle quarterback reads and the feel for the game during high school. Something Logan did not have.

    Having coached QB’s for 17 years, I’m telling you drafting an athlete with little experience at playing quarterback is like trying to breed a Clydesdale horse to run the Kentucky Derby. Logan missed too many years of those intangible things you just cannot learn unless you play the position a long time.

  34. By Sackman on Sep 6, 2015 | Reply

    I can’t figure out what the fuss is about Logan Thomas or Matt Barkley. They both are backup 3rd string QB’s they both stink. Neither one is a future starter!

  35. By dkerry5242 on Sep 7, 2015 | Reply

    It was reported on Fox News that Sims was getting a tryout with the Raiders.

  36. By dkerry5242 on Sep 7, 2015 | Reply

    Tonight It was reported on Fox News that Sims was getting a tryout with the Raiders.

  37. By don on Sep 7, 2015 | Reply

    maybe Barkley has a higher wunderlick that Thomas , or Sims . this front office is privy to a lot more information than we are .. Barkley has the physical tools .. BA . Tom Moore will soon know if he has the head for it . perhaps his footwork is already where it needs to be ,, obviously he checks enough boxes to be intriguing . we’ll soon find out . have to love the decisive way in which they do business . either of those guys could go on to good careers as NFL QB’s . but they obviously weren’t showing the mental aspect . at this time . the physical tools are certainly there . remember Warner bounced around for years .but they’ve moved on . continue searching for the next guy up . hope we don’t need to him in a game this year … or , if we do .. he shocks everyone LOL
    GO CARDS ! ! ! !!

  38. By Kevin S Mesa on Sep 7, 2015 | Reply

    More proof of the point I made earlier on this blog about fans overvaluing their own team’s players because they see them every day (and most aren’t watching all the other preseason games where other marginal guys are lighting it up for their teams as well). I like K. Williams and Shipley too but some posters seem to think every year that other teams are chomping at the bit to get all of our cuts…

  39. By Jim Koch on Sep 7, 2015 | Reply

    To Darren: What’s with all the love for LT? Was I missing something? Don’t people think that BA and the front office would’ve preferred to keep the QB THEY DRAFTED and not have to give up a pick for 1 that they didn’t?! How bout everyone trust the people who get paid to make the decisions. I could maybe see if the guy lit it up this preseason but he didn’t. If that was the case then Sims wouldn’t have been neck in neck with him for the 3rd job(another guy who did nothing special). Enough already, Barkley is a better prospect than both of them.

  40. By Scott H on Sep 7, 2015 | Reply

    Sqhead –

    Speaking just for me, it’s not Thomas’ departure that “upsets” me as much as Barkley as their choice to ( maybe ) be the 3rd QB.

  41. By krehbieo14 on Sep 7, 2015 | Reply

    Barkley was a stud at USC. He threw for more yards than any QB in the history of the school. Matt developed a level 3 shoulder separation his senior year which has affected his throwing motion and arm strength. He checks all the boxes but velocity. Is it possible that the Cards still think his arm strength is fixible? I wouldn’t be surprised to see him using Palmer’s strength rehab coach to improve his shoulder movement and strength.

  42. By Kevin S Mesa on Sep 7, 2015 | Reply

    Coach K —

    That’s a great point on Thomas. He’s still learning the basics of the position in many ways.

  43. By Kevin S Mesa on Sep 7, 2015 | Reply

    Scott H —

    Now that I can understand somewhat (i.e., being upset more about the fact that they’re giving a shot at Barkley than Thomas being let go). As Darren points out, it’s not like Barkley is replacing Thomas. Barkley’s just the next guy they’re going to look at. But, if you truly think he has zero chance of being “the guy,” then I can see how you’d view it as a waste of one of the 53 spots (even if that only lasts a few weeks). That said, given the amount of energy spent on this board by some people worrying about who our 3rd QB is, I’m sure there are at least a few people glad that we’ll have somebody in that role. Personally, I don’t think it’s that big a deal; if Palmer and Stanton both went down, I’d be fine with just grabbing an experienced, warm body like Rex Grossman and instituting a dumbed-down playbook for a while.

    It’ll be interesting to see how long Barkley stays with the team.

  44. By m egan on Sep 7, 2015 | Reply

    Don’t be surprised if Barkley is traded, and they pick up Ponder if he’s still available. We have 2 QB gurus as coaches here. Ponder was a number 1 pick, and has never been anywhere he could succeed. He has the upside of having been in the line of fire. He’s still young, and our #2 could be gone next year. He played in Florida, and will love the heat and Cardinal Red. Options should always be looked into. 9/7/2015

  45. By hminus on Sep 7, 2015 | Reply

    Mason Foster,Nick Novack & possibly others could help us…

  46. By Richard S on Sep 7, 2015 | Reply

    Based on ESPN’s power rating of 8/31/15 (biggest difference between my last years rating and ESPN’s this years rating – they had Indy much higher than my system did) and assigning point numbers to each team 0.6 different than the preceding team and then giving 3 points extra to the home team, the prognostications for this week are as follows: Green Bay wins by 12, Seattle by 9, Indy by 4.2, Denver by 5.4, Dallas by 7.8, Phil by 8.4,

  47. By Richard S on Sep 7, 2015 | Reply

    Based on ESPN’s power rating of 8/31/15 (biggest difference between my last years rating and ESPN’s this years rating – they had Indy much higher than my system did) and assigning point numbers to each team 0.6 different than the preceding team and then giving 3 points extra to the home team, the prognostications for this week are as follows: Green Bay wins by 12, Seattle by 9, Indy by 4.2, Denver by 5.4, NE by 5.4, Dallas by 10.8, Phil by 5.4, KC by 0.6, Mia by 7.2, Az by 2.4, Cincy by 7.8, Carolina by 4.8, SD by 1.8, Jets by 4.8, San Fran by 1.8 and Tampa by 4.2.

    Last years systems accuracy rate as for as picking correct winning team was 67.19%.

  48. By jeffgollin on Sep 7, 2015 | Reply

    More negative posts than usual. I think the reason is that our eyes are telling us one thing about LT, Sims and Barkley, but the actions of the Cardinal brass don’t square up with what we see.

    So-o Darren – Without violating any confidences – what do you think are the pros & cons for each guy and how do they differ from one to another?

    i.e. What does Barkley bring that LT and Sims don’t?

  49. By Darren Urban on Sep 7, 2015 | Reply

    Jeff —

    RE: Barkley versus LT/Sims

    I don’t think they know that yet. I think they knew Thomas and Sims were not long-term answers. So now they see if Barkley might be. If he’s not, they’ve looked. People need to stop doing straight LT/Sims/Barkley comparisons. As I’ve said, it looks like they were going to move on regardless of Barkley becoming available.

  50. By JohnnyBluenose on Sep 7, 2015 | Reply

    @Coach K…..Logan Thomas spent almost all his college career playing quarterback. I cannot agree that he was deprived of developmental opportunities. Ryan Tannehill, on the other hand, was a very good wide receiver during his first two years of college football and that did not stop him from becoming a good NFL starting quarterback.

  51. By Scott H on Sep 7, 2015 | Reply

    Bill –

    Uh-huh. Funny….I would say the same about Barkley.

  52. By the way, Dr. G. on Sep 7, 2015 | Reply

    Well jtdg…You say there will be no recognition for Logan? He already got it by being snapped up right away. All teams don’t operate the practice times like BA does.

    Logan kinda reminds me of The Big Unit ((Randy Johnson)) as a rookie.. …couldn’t hit the side of a tobacco barn…but tremendous potential…4 teams later, everyone ate some major crow. We shall see. I am not relying on your clairvoyance, but you do some good homework…later

  53. By Scott H on Sep 7, 2015 | Reply

    m-egan

    WHY is anyone going to trade FOR Barkley right now, when after 6 games, he might very well be released? Hardly makes sense…..just like I think it made little sense for the Cardinals to give up anything for him when he was likely to be released by Philly.

    I would actually LOVE to see someone offer the Cardinals something for Barkley. But I don’t see it happening.

  54. By Scott H on Sep 7, 2015 | Reply

    Kevin –
    Perhaps I was doing a poor job of clarifying that point. But…..whatever. The reality of this, as you say and I already know, is that we’re talking about 3rd string QB’s here. And if we get down to that level….it probably doesn’t matter.

    What DOES matter is that in less than a week, we play a game that will go in the win or loss column by Sunday night! Exciting!

  55. By the way, Dr. G. on Sep 7, 2015 | Reply

    I forgot to say…I am moving on from the QB situation as it is now and trusting that our staff can avoid the disaster we had last year…gotta keep Palmer healthy… We all were emotionally invested at 9 and 1 only to see the ship take a few torpedoes… be well Cards Fans…

  56. By Mike in Mesa on Sep 7, 2015 | Reply

    I thought this Arizona Cardinals song was good

  57. By Big Ken on Sep 7, 2015 | Reply

    I’m liking the practice squad, a scrappy lot. No Phil Sims?

  58. By TucsonTim on Sep 7, 2015 | Reply

    Thanks Darren, so Keim and company didn’t believe he would clear waivers and admittedly 3 QBs were picked up off waivers. Tuff business. Too bad we couldn’t get anything for Thomas.

    BTW you’ve been with the Cards for 16 years. Have you ever been as optimistic about any other team?

  59. By Darren Urban on Sep 8, 2015 | Reply

    Tucson —

    RE: Optimism

    I do think this is the deepest team I’ve ever covered with the highest expectations. That said, I think this Seahawks team, when complete (Kam), is better than any team the Cards have had in their division. So take that for what it’s worth.

    (And just to clarify, I have covered the team for 16 years but I haven’t been “with the Cards” the whole time. I was with the East Valley Tribune from 2000-2006.)

  60. By Dr. G. on Sep 7, 2015 | Reply

    Cards Fans – – I follow as closely as most fans, but I find Darren’s depth chart very helpful during the games…I can’t always instantly recall all the numbers. Just go to this link and click on OFFENSE, DEFENSE, AND STs to print out a nice sheet for all the personnel. ((I use cut//paste to WORD)) He keeps it updated during the season…

    HERE – – http://www.azcardinals.com/team/depth-chart.html

    THANKS AGAIN, DARREN…. Go Cards

  61. By Dr. G. on Sep 7, 2015 | Reply

    Cards Fans – – I forgot the total roster link – – Here ya go – – I blend the numbers to the depth chart for an easy player guide…g’day…

    http://www.azcardinals.com/roster/player-roster.html

  62. By Derek Phx on Sep 7, 2015 | Reply

    does anyone see the cards taking a look at Docket?

  63. By truths4all on Sep 7, 2015 | Reply

    Here are some info on Barkley.

    Drafted by the Eagles in the fourth round in 2013, Barkley appeared in four games for Philadelphia, completed 30 of 50 passes for 300 yards with no touchdowns and four interceptions.

    He had a difficult preseason this year. Barkley completed 27 of 52 passes (52 percent) for 351 yards and no touchdowns with two interceptions.

    Against the New York Jets in His last game as an Eagle, Barkley was 4 of 9 for 45 yards with one pick.

    In my opinion, it looks like BA got miffed at Thomas (a guy who was starting to show he knew BA’s system) and exchanged him for another Ryan Lindley in Barkley.

    The question for Cards fans is, if Palmer and Stanton go down, would the Cards have been better off with Thoma or Sims OR with Barkley who is just another Ryan Lindley, based on his stats produced in the NFL.

  64. By truths4all on Sep 7, 2015 | Reply

    Barkley/USC fans make a big deal about Barkley’s USC college record.

    And just like Lienart was All-World in college football, Barkley was too. BUT just as Lienart found out, we are now talking about the NFL and its another universe and a much tougher one too for Barkley.

    USC has not been a successful NFL QB factory. In fact, the only bona fide NFL QB stud to come from USC has been Carson Palmer and his career was a yo-yo one until he came to the Cards where finally his talents have been show-cased, stretched and allowed to be demonstrated.

    Based on how Barkley has been totally mediocre in the NFL and outplayed by all NFL QBs out there except for maybe Ryan Lindley, it doesn’t take a genius to see his West Coast -Spread Offense type talents do not play well with BA’s offense that requires the QB to read and react to what the defense (hot reads dictating hot receivers) gives you to best attack them along with the 6 to 8 home run long ball “Strikes-To-The-Bone” attempts per game that requires an accurate and strong arm which Barkley has never had or needed with USC’s spread offense.

  65. By Scott H on Sep 8, 2015 | Reply

    truths4all –

    Well, given where I’ve been on this whole thing, I appreciate your perspective. And I appreciate that you actually took the time to look at what Barkley has done ON THE FIELD, AT THE PRO LEVEL. For whatever reason, many people seem to be over-looking that. But I can’t.

    What he did at USC is completely irrelevant. It is worthless at this point. When I hear people say he was a stud at USC, I want to laugh. Or throw up.

    I mean, should we start compiling a list of the QB’s who were studs in college, and really fizzled at the pro level when they were suddenly overwhelmed ( as Barkley has appeared to be ) by the game at the PRO level?

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