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Yes, a tie: Seahawks aftermath

Posted by Darren Urban on October 24, 2016 – 12:14 am

Maybe Donovan McNabb shouldn’t have taken so much grief. That’s kind of how Frostee Rucker — who played in the infamous tie game when he was with the Bengals and they tied the McNabb’s Eagles and McNabb admitted later he didn’t know you could tie — sees it, after being in yet another tie game Sunday night.

“Donovan McNabb got so much heat because he didn’t know the overtime rules, but who knew the overtime rules?” Rucker said, noting that the only reason he knew was because he had played in the one previous. “He took so much heat then and I wish I could say to him today, ‘You know what Don? People still don’t know.’ ”

(This is true. On the sideline late in overtime, I had at least three people — not players — ask what happened when the clock ran out.)

Then again, why would it matter? Why would a tie even come into play, on a night when the Cardinals moved the ball pretty well and stonewalled the Seahawks’ offense almost the whole way. I mean, Seattle had just 65 net yards (including penalty yards lost) in regulation. Say that again: 65 yards. The defense was excellent (especially since it was the pass rush forcing holding calls on many of those penalties.)

Instead, though, there were way too many missed opportunities — and when you get inside the 5-yard line and don’t score any points, you probably are fortunate not to lose.

I never thought I’d see a game in which a sub-30-yard field goal would win it for both teams, and both teams missed. And while I indeed did know the tie rules, I never really thought I’d see that either.

— David Johnson got his 100 yards rushing (113 to be exact), although it took him 33 carries. With eight catches too, Johnson had 41 touches, and make no mistake, they were hard touches. They needed Johnson, but there’s another rough-and-tumble front seven coming in Carolina. Something tells me Johnson will be ready for his bye week.

— Michael Floyd has had his drops, but that one he had around the Seattle 15-yard line in overtime, which would have been a first down on a drive when a touchdown would have ended it, was different. Floyd lay on his back for what seemed like a long time, upset he dropped it, and for the first time looked outwardly like his struggles bothered him. Floyd had five catches for 65 yards and made several key grabs — but this mysterious up-and-down season continues.

— Lost a bit in all this is the injuries piling up. Floyd’s hammie. Patrick Peterson’s back. Darren Fells’ ankle. Jaron Brown’s knee. Smoke’s sickle-cell problem. The injury report Wednesday will be interesting to say the least.

— It’ll be a long time until the Cards see the Seahawks again — Christmas Eve in Seattle — but that offense is going to be in trouble unless Russell Wilson’ knee gets better. When he cannot run, they are going to struggle against good defenses.

— It was the lowest scoring tie since the overtime rules were introduced in 1974. So … history. Right? It was the 21st tie in that time frame.

— The tie hurts against the Seahawks. Not as bad as a loss, of course, but when it probably should have been a win, it stings. The Cards remain two back in the loss column, so they not only have to keep winning but hope the Seahawks stumble. Had they won Sunday, you’d only have to have that happen once. Now, it’s got to happen at least a couple of times.

— Some big plays from lesser-known factors. J.J. Nelson was great (3 catches for 84 yards) and Ifeanyi Momah (2 catches for 50 yards) got open twice for giant plays.

— Arians clearly was not happy about the Bobby Wagner blocked field goal in which he leaped over long snapper Aaron Brewer. And Arians wasn’t happy when the Seahawks did it again on Chandler Catanzaro’s OT miss. “I’ll talk to the league and we’ll get some kind of explanation that’s all bulls*** like normal,” he said, and that’s probably true. It’s not like anything will change. It will, however, bring more clarity to a rule that seems difficult to understand.

— I was impressed with Palmer late with his leadership. When Floyd dropped that pass, Palmer rushed over to him and got in his face to tell him the Cards were still going to need him and not to get down. He did the same exact thing with Catanzaro after Catanzaro’s miss. I know there will be many who aren’t happy with either of those players — I’ve heard from plenty via Twitter — but Palmer is right. The Cards are going to need both. That’s what leaders should do.

The path to the playoffs is hard and probably suffered a setback with a tie. It’s not a loss. But it’s not a win either.

afterseablog

 


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31 Responses to “Yes, a tie: Seahawks aftermath”

  1. By aschatte on Oct 24, 2016 | Reply

    Well, yes we do need both Catanzaro and Floyd, as it makes no sense to get rid of both at this point of the season. The Cards season is all but over, you cannot rely on a team to lose a couple of games when you yourself cannot win. Just stick to the core group of players and once the off season begins, probably 75% of these players wont be playing next season for a bunch of reasons. Lets just finish season off at this point and hope maybe we can salvage some kind of pride. There is no way Cards can make the playoffs at this point, the season is looking bust. This team does not look mentally on to win games when it matters.

  2. By Steve on Oct 24, 2016 | Reply

    So if Arians did not like Wagner leaping over the center why didn’t he have one of the guards block him the second time around when he knew what Bobby was going to do??? I also don’t understand why Arians didn’t challenge David Johnsons run to the corner of the endzone during OT when Johnson’s foot hit the TD pylon but was ruled down at the 1 yd line?? That play was close enough for a challenge. Points were at a premium tonight yet Bruce chose to forego early field goals in the game which makes me feel that he doesn’t have a lot of confidence in our kicking game right now.

  3. By Darren Urban on Oct 24, 2016 | Reply

    Steve —

    RE: Wagner/challenge

    1) Given the angles at which that happens, how does the guard hit the guy without throwing off the entire blocking scheme and/or allowing another rusher to go right in easily for the block?

    2) Arians couldn’t challenge. There are no coach challenges in overtime. The booth initiates all replays. It didn’t.

  4. By TucsonTim on Oct 24, 2016 | Reply

    In a league where loyalty to players is razor thin, I would love to know why BA feels loyalty to a loser special teams coach just because of some college coaching they did together in the 80’s

    We should be 5-2. But no, we are 3-3 and ONE.

    If Jones were a respectable man, he would spare his old friend the turmoil and resign tomorrow. I’m not holding my breath.

  5. By faster on Oct 24, 2016 | Reply

    good, bad, and ugly

    the defense was not only good, it was superb. when this group stays healthy, they should push the team into the playoffs.

    the offense was bad, with the exception of nelson (my player of the game, with his jumptwist against sherman). 3 points, after 443 yards, 23 first downs and 46 minutes of possesion, thats sad.
    ugly? i cann`t decide between the special team and the coaches. some possesions (at the end of the second quarter, and 5 minutes before the end of the third quarter) did ask for a field goal. ok, with this special team its a risk, but it should have been taken.

    the road to houston got a lot harder with this tie.

  6. By Marcelof on Oct 24, 2016 | Reply

    tough time setting the alarm clock off this monday morning. Had to stay up till 2am to finish watching the game here in Brazil…. to see a tie…

    Bad one, special teams dooming Cardinals’ season again.
    Floyd dropping passes AGAIN. Crucial one this time.

    I loved the defense, they would’ve shut Seatlle Down had not been that blocked punt. Keep on playing at this level and things may happen. Plus, after seeing Hawks offense is that good, NFC West hasn’t got its king yet.

    Sometimes it seems officiating are favoring Seattle (Atlanta’s last play defense pass interference and this controversial Wagner blocks) bue yet referees are humans and will always err., ah, by the way, too many flags these days.

    question: Overtime. Johnson’s run when he was pushed out of bounds, wasn’t that a clear Touchdown? Why did they hurry and snap the ball without a review first?

    They took the risk twice within the 5 yard line, why not a third time? Hard to figure that out.

  7. By lacardinalsfan on Oct 24, 2016 | Reply

    How many games does the Catman have to lose us before he grts cut?

  8. By Cardinal's Chick on Oct 24, 2016 | Reply

    David Johnson on the 1 yard line and you kick a field goal on 3rd and goal? Why? Bad call coach…

  9. By Scott H on Oct 24, 2016 | Reply

    No, it’s not a loss. But it feels like it is. This should have been a win for the Cardinals and it wasn’t. It all comes down to two words – missed opportunities.

    And missed FG’s.

    A tie hurts the Cardinals here, definitely more than it hurts the Seahawks. After all that, we’re still two games behind them.

    Can I ask – after Bennett did what he did earlier in the game ( whether it should have been a penalty or not ), why did it look like we were basically going to let him do the same thing on the missed 24-yarder in OT? Look, I give Catanzaro NO pass here. You do NOT miss a 24 yard FG at that point ( or any other, let’s be honest ). But may have seeing Bennett looking like he was coming right through that gap again been in his head? Yeah, I suppose it was.

    It kills me to see other teams able to make big plays on Special Teams while the Cardinals continue to be so UTTERLY LACKING in that area. We get no returns that set us up. We make no blocks. Our punter isn’t able to change field position. The only thing that distinguishes our Special Teams is how consistently in-effective they are.

    I don’t even feel like saying any more about this one. Forgive me, I’m just a little tired after getting little sleep after that game last night. But, really, what more is there to say other than two words – missed opportunities.

  10. By Marlin on Oct 24, 2016 | Reply

    Darren,
    How could you not mention “what’s really lost in all of it”. That is, Arians is a horrible game manager. Its nothing new. His players bailed him out so many times last year. What’s also “lost in all of it” is that we continue to have a horrible special teams, and Amos is still around. And Arians has the NERVE to criticize us fans for not being loud at the stadium. He should praise the Valley fans. He should thank us after every game. I, for one, am sick and tired of his antics and errors… while all the while he treats us fans as if we are rookie players that he can bludgeon with insults. Let’s hope Arians and Amos retire at year’s end. I’ve had my season tix long before he showed up, and will long after he is gone.

  11. By Marlin on Oct 24, 2016 | Reply

    AMOS, How do you NOT adjust protection to ensure that the Wagner blocked kick doesn’t happen again in OT? How do you NOT adjust protection? That’s why CAT missed on OT! What a LOUSY special teams coach. 3 years of lousy special teams coaching. It’ll only end when AMOS is gone.

  12. By Marlin on Oct 24, 2016 | Reply

    ARIANS’ criticism of Valley fans came up again on national TV last night (friends told me). Hey Bruce, you owe us an apology! That criticism of us from last year lives on in the national media… every nationally televised game How you have to “use the silent snap” at home. Why are we spending all of our money and screaming our lungs out? Learn to focus your frustration where it belongs… not at your fans. Look at yourself! PLEASE RETIRE at year’s end.

  13. By Eric G on Oct 24, 2016 | Reply

    This team lacks the killer instinct. Without that, this team is an 8-7-1 team at best.

  14. By Kevin S Mesa on Oct 24, 2016 | Reply

    Let’s not forget that we had two other chances to put 3 critical points on the board… we passed one up to go for it on 4th and short, and in the other one, our QB got sacked (and fumbled) with no timeouts and only a few seconds left in the first half… the ONE thing you can’t do there if you’re going to try to score a TD is hold the ball too long and take a sack.

    That said, it’s tough seeing us lose a 2nd game due to not being able to make a game-winning FG.

  15. By Kevin S Mesa on Oct 24, 2016 | Reply

    Sorry, didn’t mean to say “lose” a second game — I realize this one wasn’t a loss, but it feels the same.

  16. By Canadian Redbird on Oct 24, 2016 | Reply

    Been a Cardinal fan for over 20 years and never seen anything close to what happened last night. Definitely a game that the Cards deserved to win and making it more frustrating was the fact that it was a Pete Carroll team. The offence and defence played their guts out for 70 min.

    The special teams again was again the root of the loss, whether its player personnel or the schemes in place we need to make some changes. The special teams coordinator should be held accountable. I’ve mentioned before that during the draft the Cards need to place a priority on kickers / punters vs. waiting to select the undrafted players. There’s a reason they went undrafted.

    I have to applaud each and every one of the Cardinal players that were interviewed following the game. I encourage you to view these videos on the website. Never once did they threw anyone under the bus, during their questioning. Makes me proud to be a Cardinal fan!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  17. By kauaicardsfan on Oct 24, 2016 | Reply

    Aloha Darren.
    Why wasnt the DJs run when he hit the pylon reviewed ?? Also Wagners touching of the center is another thing that the refs missed? Seems like we are getting the short end of the stick with the refs and the league?
    They also need to get Kerwin WIlliams out of the punting unit if he cant block and put someone who can?
    Obviously the Seahawks saw our special teams weakness and exploited it, Special teams costs us 2 games , hopefully this is the last one????
    If its broke than gotta fix it !!

  18. By Kevin S Mesa on Oct 24, 2016 | Reply

    OK, I understand some of the criticism of BA and the game management. I’ve done some myself.

    But some of it, people need to step back. Someone above is criticizing him for not challenging — at a time when all reviews come from the booth. Someone else is criticizing him for kicking on 3rd down. Huh? I doubt there is a single coach in the NFL that wouldn’t kick there. You have the equivalent of an extra point (an OLD version of the extra point), which is a 99% proposition. Everyone knows you kick on 3rd down so that if you have a problem — a bobbled snap, for example (and we have both a new long snapper and a new holder, so that’s not out of the question), the holder can just fall on the ball and you can try again.

    If we went for it on third down, maybe DJ makes it… but he couldn’t make it on fourth and about a half-yard earlier in the game. You also risk fumbling.

    What surprised me was that they didn’t use the 2nd down play to center the ball. Kicking from the side on such a short kick didn’t make a lot of sense to me, but I don’t know where Cat likes the ball.

  19. By JohnnyBluenose on Oct 24, 2016 | Reply

    JTDG…Re: Nov 29, 2010 blog. It’s there under “Anderson Still QB”, about halfway down. Interesting to read some of those old blogs and you realize how many more comments there were then and you wonder why. Frustrating not to have won last night and I think some of that is on Arians. I know he did not miss the field goal and he did not drop the pass on the 15 yard line but this game should never have gone to OT. A lot of missed opportunities. David Johnson played an outstanding game but we need to reduce his workload, find a way to get Ellington and/or Taylor involved. And I wish we had signed Anquan Boldin this off-season. He does not drop passes and he brings leadership and an attitude that we are missing. And, sad to say, Mathieu was a non-factor once again, almost a liability. I feel badly for him. This time last year he was in the running for the league’s most valuable defensive player. Swearinger played very well but I think his celebrations after plays are a bit over the top and that will prove costly before the season is over and that will be on our coaches as much as it will be on Swearinger. I really think Arians’ message/style is getting old and if this “not winning” continues then I expect the players will tune him out. Hope I’m wrong….time will tell.

  20. By Chris Lewis on Oct 24, 2016 | Reply

    this has got to be one of the most disappointing non-wins the Cardinals have had in quite awhile, the Seahawks kept trying to give us the game and we just didn’t take it, so frustrating to watch, we can’t blame it all on Cat man but this is the 2nd game this season that he cost us, we should at least be 5-2, this season is slipping away quickly and the toughest part of the schedule is coming up, the defense didn’t deserve for the score to end in a tie, they played their tails off, the offense and especially the special teams were horrendous, they better figure it out quickly or this team will be taking an early vacation in January.

  21. By Joseph Robinett (Lightwing) on Oct 24, 2016 | Reply

    First, our crowd was fantastic, no matter what our head coach says, our defense too. Offensively we’re progressing, but I believe we missed Smokey and that connection that he shares with Carson cannot be underestimated.

    The special teams is, obviously, not so special, though they had a few moments in San Francisco, they lack consistency and, seemingly, the appropriate leadership in coaching; Although, I am not an expert , and the special team’s coach isn’t the one kicking field goals.

    To Canadian Redbird, enjoyed your commentary precision.

    To Kevin S. Mesa, I appreciated your insight on centering the ball before kicking that most important kick that could decide a playoff berth or not.

    J.R.

  22. By Dr. G. on Oct 24, 2016 | Reply

    Cards Fans – – (( )) Between the braces is how I feel about the game…simple empty…won’t say a thing… it’s all been said. Bummed.

    Now, it is time to start running the table, perhaps 8-1 to get to 11-4-1… 10-5-1 may not win a Wild Card spot. FYI, there are 5 teams outside the division leaders that are 1 win ahead of the Cards. If the Cards have the same number of wins as another team, the tie will clinch.

    At this point, it’s a very long shot bet, but we have seen the Cards win lots of games in the past few years. If we can get a Wild Card spot, anything can happen. The fact: 1 or 2 more downers, and we just enjoy what we can of what remains…be well CARDS FANS…!!

  23. By Halagator on Oct 24, 2016 | Reply

    Some points to note…

    1) Bobby Wagnar is allowed to jump over the center as long as he doesn’t land on the center. That’s the rule. In both instances he didn’t land on top of the center.

    2) The Cards did adjust on the OT field goal as the guard grabbed Wagnar’s leg to disrupt him. Obviously Wagnar’s first block was just an unreal athletic play. Catman obviously was worried so he rushed the kick and missed

    3) I agree our special teams units as a whole have been a non factor. Our punt return and kick return nets us nothing. We cant block anyone.

    4) Arians is a good coach. Going for 4th down in the game was the right call given how bad our field goal unit has been. I’ve never been a big fan of kicking the ball on 3rd down. With no trust in our kicking game I would have taken one more shot with Johnson. I think we would have scored. Then its game over.

    5) Cardinals D was awesome and so was the Seahawks. Lets not forget they arguably have had the top D in the league for the past 4 years. (It pains me to write that)

    6) Cards O actually played pretty well. We moved the ball, didn’t turn it over (not counting the special teams blocks). Couple of drops and missed blocks. We dominated the game but didn’t come up with the outcome we wanted. I hate the tie but at least we didn’t lose.

    Hopefully the boys will be fired up for the Carolina rematch. Get an east coast win and then a much needed bye to heal up some lingering injuries. Season is not lost yet.

  24. By Scott H on Oct 24, 2016 | Reply

    Kevin –

    Hey, bro. Tough one to swallow. Just to clarify, I don’t know if you are referring to one of my previous complaints or not. My only criticisms of BA from last night were his going for it on 4th and 1 when I thought we NEEDED points there and I thoughts kicking the FG was the way to go. AND his challenging a play / call in the first quarter that could not be challenged, which cost us a first down, which came into play later and probably cost us a chance to tack on a FG right before the half.

    Beyond that…..it was on the players for – as he said – not doing what they get paid for AND as much as I hate to do so, how can any of us NOT give that Seahawks defense all the credit in the world for spending the whole night on the field and STILL bringing it right up to the last play???

  25. By Richard S on Oct 24, 2016 | Reply

    Momah was a bright spot. I remember seeing him in the pre-season last year before he was injured and thought he’s going to be a force to be reckoned with. That was the only good thing I can remember about the game.

  26. By Kevin S Mesa on Oct 24, 2016 | Reply

    Chris Lewis —

    Re: schedule

    I was more concerned about this before yesterday. After seeing Minnesota look pedestrian and Atlanta drop another game, I think we can beat both of those teams. Not saying we will, but we can.

    The key is the next two games. Carolina is obviously underperforming, and SF is horrible. Win those two, and we’re 5-3-1, and definitely in the hunt. Drop either of those and it’s a very tough battle from there.

    After watching MN lose big yesterday and Atlanta blow another lead, both of those teams are beatable. Since we’re on the road both games, it might be tough to win both, but if we beat Carolina and SF and split MN/Atl, then we’re 6-4-1 going into the homestretch. Home vs. Washington and NO should be wins, @Miami should be a win. Assume for sake of argument we lose to Seattle, and we’re 9-5-1 going into the finale… If a playoff berth depends on beating the Rams to finish 10-5-1, I’m confident we will.

    10-5-1 isn’t guaranteed to get us in, but I think it will. Even if you assume GB and MN both finish ahead of that, there’s still a second WC left. Of the three teams ahead of us at 4-3 (excluding Atlanta who I assume will win the South), I don’t think any of them are going 7-2 to finish 11-5, which is what they’d have to do to beat 10-5-1. Philly is 4-2, so they could go 7-3 to finish ahead of us (assuming we get to 10-5-1), but I think that’s going to be tough with their schedule.

    I think the division is likely out of reach now, but the playoffs are not. The team just needs to keep its eye on the prize and win all the games they’re supposed to win.

  27. By Big Ken on Oct 24, 2016 | Reply

    Yeah, it’s like kissing your sister.

  28. By JR on Oct 24, 2016 | Reply

    My first thought after last night’s game ended was what a colossal waste of my time, money, energy and emotion. We had several opportunities to win, but didn’t.

    But, I’m not perfect, either, so here are some thoughts for improvement.

    I am not a coach, but I could see earlier in the game that the Seahawks were getting close to blocking a punt. One would hope that the special teams coach could see that, also, and make adjustments.

    I liked seeing David Johnson and Ellington in the backfield at the same time. I think we should do more of that since Jerod Brown is likely lost and John Brown is questionable. Boy, did we miss Smoky.

    It seems like with David Johnson running so well that we don’t know what to do on second down. Johnson gains five or so, and then it seems like we don’t know what to do next. Figure it out.

    I don’t know why we tried to kick a field goal when we were on the one foot line in overtime. I know all the excuses – we might mess up the snap, etc. Just run the doggone ball. We’ve got the best runner in the league.

    How about more quick slant passes and passes to our tight ends? Number 80 definitely needs to get more playing time. He made two excellent catches.

    Even my wife knows John Madden’s rule: don’t leave points on the table on 4th down. Cash them in, meaning kick the field goal. I know that seems a little iffy since we’ve missed two game winning field goals this year, but 99.99% of the time CatMan is perfect.

    Our defense played so well for almost all of the game, it was disheartening to see the Seahawks march right down the field after we went ahead in overtime, especially since we all knew what the Seahawks were going to do in that situation: get the ball to Jimmy Graham. The Seahawks didn’t “find a way to get the ball to Graham”, as Kent Summers wrote in his article – Graham was wide open. That was discouraging. And then, they did it again after we missed our field goal.

    I don’t know anything about BA’s criticism of the fans, but in our section (132) everyone stood for every play of the game and when we were on defense, we were all screaming our lungs out. The only other game I can remember when we stood the whole game was when we played the Bears when Dennis Green was coach.

    Oh, well. This was a big punch in the gut. Hard to get over.

  29. By Blakew on Oct 24, 2016 | Reply

    Wow !!!! what a game
    WHO wasn’t on the edge of there seats for the whole game ? yes it hurts to not win that one , but for entertainment value ( and yes that’s what it is , “entertainment” ) it doesn’t get any better than that . I love defensive battles and our defense definitely outplayed the Seahawks. I am not one of these fans that thinks the sky is falling , and even if it does , does it really matter ? ( i have been a Cardinals fan since 1969 ) i think this team is getting hungry and will start to pull off a bunch of victories in a row. As i see it this season is just beginning to get good .
    I was really happy to see Ifeanyi Momah get into some offensive plays and come up big on a few of them . Here’s looking forward to a great year and some great upcoming games.
    anyone remember 2008 ? what was our record ? and didn’t we ALMOST win the Super Bowl ( I was 35 seconds from collecting about $4600 on a bet that i put on them in Vegas to win the Super Bowl at the start of the season 🙂 ? what a run that was, and here is hoping this year is as good as that one .

  30. By clssylssy on Oct 25, 2016 | Reply

    Seems it’s time for Keim to bring in some reinforcements now that we have six players on IR and we’re not sure when John Brown will be back.
    While everybody is whining and complaining, we need to focus on moving forward and fixing what was broken that kept us from scoring when we had the opportunities. Chandler Catanzaro was not the problem with the offense, but perhaps lack of man power with the loss of major receivers and O-line personnel, put us behind the eight ball enough to put our wobbly Special Teams on the spot.
    Keim became an instant hero when he brought Dwight Freeney in from his retirement couch and talent like Cory Redding to help give our defense some punch. Now our offense is in need of pumping up, and maybe somebody like Roddy White (or Torrey Smith) could give us some extra juice.
    It seems that injuries around the league are beginning to absorb the best talent out there while we are talking about contracts for next season??? Newsflash to Steve Keim: the Cards have some serious fires to put out NOW. Our “loss” is not just on the players and coaches but reflective of the decisions made higher up the food chain.

  31. By Eazy E on Nov 1, 2016 | Reply

    No not a tie!!!

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