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Keim: Veldheer “has to get better”

Posted by Darren Urban on September 26, 2017 – 8:13 am

As a former offensive lineman, it frustrates General Manager Steve Keim to no end when the offensive line struggles. You could hear that Tuesday during his appearance on the “Doug and Wolf” show on Arizona Sports 98.7. Keim at one point was asked specifically about the struggles of right tackle Jared Veldheer, and Veldheer’s move there.

“I don’t think it has anything to do with right tackle,” Keim said. “The fact of the matter is he has to get better. He’s got to improve all the little things … his footwork, his technique, his hand placement and get back to basics. Again, 64,000 people saw it last night. Jared is a prideful guy, and I expect nothing less than for him to be in here this week and make some improvements.”

Keim called the O-line play “unacceptable.” He said reinforcements should be coming, with left tackle D.J. Humphries having a good chance to return after his knee injury and the possibility guard Mike Iupati (triceps) could return as well. The latter may be important, since guard Alex Boone strained a pectoral muscle late in the game and will have to undergo an MRI today. Keim sounded optimistic Boone’s injury wouldn’t be serious, but we will see on that.

— Keim lauded both Larry Fitzgerald and Carson Palmer. Palmer got much of the praise, given the circumstances in which he played behind the struggling offensive line.

“Ball placement, accuracy, decision-making, I just think in every way I thought (Palmer) played exceptional,” Keim said. “Under the circumstances, down a couple of playmakers injury-wise, not having David Johnson, not having John Brown, J.J. (Nelson) had some hamstring issues, and to do what he did under pressure and to create with his feet and his arm at the same time … some of the balls he fit into tight windows, he gave our receivers a chance, again I thought it was exceptional. There is no doubt in my mind he played as well as he could possibly play, under the circumstances.”

— The poor offensive line play didn’t help the special teams/field position, Keim said, with the punts out of the Cards’ own end zone. As for Phil Dawson’s missed field goal, “when you don’t produce there is always concern,” Keim said. “The thing that gives me confidence is Phil’s body of work. At the same time, it doesn’t minimize fact we need to be concerned with those types of kicks.”

— Keim said the defense played “lights out” for the most part. He was disappointed with the two chunk plays when Dak Prescott escaped the pocket, and also because defensive backs Justin Bethel and Tyrann Matheiu “did not turn and find the football.”


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104 Responses to “Keim: Veldheer “has to get better””

  1. By JohnnyBluenose on Sep 26, 2017 | Reply

    Darren….disappointing result. Do you know how many snaps Niklas had and, is he injured? And how many snaps for Robert Nk? And has anyone asked our head coach why he wasted a timeout by challenging a play that had no chance of being overturned and, if so, what was the response? Thanks

  2. By Darren Urban on Sep 26, 2017 | Reply

    Johnny —

    RE: Questions

    1) Niklas caught a pass on the first drive. He played 19 snaps. He is not hurt.
    2) Nkemdiche played 15 snaps (the Cowboys ran just 47 offensive plays.)
    3) No one asked about the challenge.

  3. By Erik on Sep 26, 2017 | Reply

    Dont, worry, everyone! Keim is going to cut TE Hakeem Valles this week and resign LB Phillips Wheeler, so we are good!

  4. By Erik on Sep 26, 2017 | Reply

    In all seriousness, the problems people were worried about from before the season are proving to be the downfall. The O Line is awful and so is the D Line. The vast majority of Keim draft picks are busts. This ship is not going to right itself.

  5. By Pitt V. on Sep 26, 2017 | Reply

    I like how Keim expects Veldheer to play better. Players are only as good as they are coached. The guy has never played right tackle before. It’s funny that the whole game Veldheer was getting killed and never got help. The few times he got help Veldheer would leave the DE to the tight end and the tight end would get killed. That would leave the 5 offensive linemen against the other 2 D linemen. It was funny to watch. It was 5 on 2 and the line was still getting killed.

  6. By Darren Urban on Sep 26, 2017 | Reply

    Pitt V —

    RE: Veldheer

    Veldheer has the same coaching he had when he was on the left side.

  7. By clssylssy on Sep 26, 2017 | Reply

    As a former defensive lineman (if that’s his cred) I would expect Keim to know how to put together a bettsker 0-line, it’s not that it is a new problem or that he hasn’t had the opportunity. So, SK, DON’T devalue these players or blame them for your bad decisions. Veldeer is struggling on the right so why did YOU move him to begin with; now he gets thrown under the bus?
    And, as has been pointed out, with this 0-line, Carson can’t play at the level he is capaable b/c he is either on his back or running for his life and not even David Johnson was able to get open and be effeective, much less expect our other RBs (all smaller guys) to take on the entire opposing D-line, only to be crushed; heroic effort, BAD play calling. Our plays should play to our strengths and the guys currently expected to do the job, with some innovative and change-of-pace adaptations.
    We started great, Carson was his old self and Fitz was actually used as the weapon we have been keeping under wraps, because we want to give young guys opportrunities to grow??? Fine, but don’t forget our bread’n’butter and leave us to starve., Fitz is still the consistent and dependable workhorse that has made him elite, and the guy fans really go to see, how tragic really that he seems destined to go down with a sinking ship. When Frostee got that unsportsmanlike conduct call that negated the 2nd TD and then Dawson missed the chip shot, the tides begin to turn. Our defense is overrated and has shown it can’t go the distance when the chips are down ,
    Maybe it’s time for the entire roster to go to an incentive based pay system which might spark some enthusiasm and make things fun again then plan a massive do-over from top to bottom, front office included,
    Next week we play a very different 9ers team than what we are used to and these guys are young, physical, passionate, and determined. I remember when that’s what this team use to be but, at this point, I believe youthful enthusiasm is going to win out.

  8. By JTDG on Sep 26, 2017 | Reply

    Eric G,

    “K. E. I. M., =Keim’s excuses into Monday.”

    You see, we aren’t that far apart. I agree completely with your comments on the last blog.

    As for the excuses;

    I love when he says guys need to play better. It would be like having Tom Moore fill in for David Johnson and say, hey, he just needs to play better. NO. He isn’t good enough.

    This is the line, over the past 5 years, you put together. This is who you wanted.
    These are your guys! Many called for this guy to be signed or this guy to be drafted, but no, these are your guys you wanted.

    Injuries? Humphries has played , what , 2-3 games at LT. The jury is still out. Iupati is more of a problem than solution. But even if they played well, you still have “T-Rex arms” at center, “revolving door” Boehm at RG and “I wish I would have retired” Veldheer at RT. Keim is so bad at putting together Olines. We knew that with the Cooper pick.

    But I love this, The defense played lights out except for the two big plays. What?
    The defense gave up leads in the 4th quarter of the first two games and in this game, the score was 14-14 in the 4th quarter. Obviously the game is too big for Bettcher. He panics in the 4th quarter as the Cowboys dominate his defense in the 4th, just like the Lions did.

    This group of Keim , BA, Bettcher will never win as that window closed in 2015, when Keim didn’t get the weapons needed to get us to the superbowl.

    It is clearly time to reboot at the end of the year. Thank Carson for his services. Try to talk Larry to come back, but if not, thank him for everything. Release Veldheer, Iupati, Badger, bringing the cap in 2018 to 62 million. Let Buc walk , as he is not a 9 million dollar a year ILB (which is what he would make next year) bringing the total to 71 million. Bring in a young coach who can bring in his QB in the draft, and use that 71 million to build around him. (see rams)

    The window closed. It is time to blow up this regime.

  9. By D on Sep 26, 2017 | Reply

    As I recall, J. Veldheer was an above average Left Tackle. JV also stated that he didn’t want to move to the Right side back in the Spring. I realize he has to do what is best for the team and what his coaches tell him to do, but please remind me again why Keim and BA decided to switch tackles for this upcoming year? Humphries had improved at Right Tackle.

    Let’s not over look how bad AQ Shipley and E. Boehm played too. Both are too small for their positions. If they don’t be careful, Boehm maybe too damaged goods to play Center once AQ is gone.

    Time for this Organization to draft Olineman in the top 3 Rounds of the draft.
    Since 2010, the Cards have drafted 2 Oline players in Humphries and Cooper in Rounds 1-3.

    Good thing for AZ that TB, Rams(twice), Seattle(twice), Texans, Jacksville and NY don’t have very good Dline players for the Oline of AZ to worry about.

  10. By drblogubc on Sep 26, 2017 | Reply

    I did not see the game (traveling). Awoke to see the score, analysis etc. I was very surprised to see Cardinals gained more offensive yards than the Cowboys but not surprised by the double digit loss, which I expected.
    After Detroit my expectations fell to 3-13 season. Now, I am not sure who those wins are going to come against. Odds are they should win one or two close games and the better teams will still have bad days. But given the highly unlikely probability of making the playoffs, I am almost hoping for 3-13 (or worse) so we can get a decent first draft pick next year to find a young mobile QB for the future.

  11. By JTDG on Sep 26, 2017 | Reply

    Nkemdiche now has 1 tackle and one assist and no sacks for his professional career.

    Rodney Gunter has zero tackles this year

    Keim can’t draft Dlineman either

  12. By jaime on Sep 26, 2017 | Reply

    o line is the problem, these guys have become candy. I hope they get it fixed.

  13. By clssylssy on Sep 26, 2017 | Reply

    Yes, I see that our PS player John Ulrick got poached by the …Packers? Bears?
    Might be time to start looking around and doing a little poaching of our own.
    And, if anyone is thinking these remarks were harsh, OMG, try reading the angry remarks on Twitter!
    Geez, I’m feeling a little like a cream puff/

  14. By CARDS62 on Sep 26, 2017 | Reply

    At least 80% of the O line did not play well and TE did not block well either so when is Keim going to talk about holding O line coaching accountable.

    Special Teams coverage and return teams not discussed and have been horrible for years so when will Keim hold coaching accountable. Special teams is a lot more than just a punter and kicker. They do matter greatly but so does blocked kicks, and return yardage.

    I agree with JTDG blow it up and start over including coaches. I do not mind if BA is retained, but I seriously doubt if he will come back if Keim removes his coaching staff which we have to do. Dick V. with the Rams hired a great staff, but BA has not. It just takes a few weak links to bring the house down.

    I know I will get a lot of thumbs down for this, but Fitz. is my favorite Cardinal of all time and he deserves better. We need to give Larry his release or trade him later this year for a late round draft pick so that he can go and play for a championship like we did for Aeneas Williams. Larry’s catch was incredible and Americans deserve to see him do this in games that matter. Larry Legend deserves better than what Keim and BA is giving him.

    Go Cards beat the 49ers

  15. By Eric G on Sep 26, 2017 | Reply

    This team can’t win the superbowl, they won’t even make the Playoffs. At the end of the year, I’m with JTDG on most of his thoughts about the players. Carson did a great job to stabilize a terrible QB situation here in AZ, but his complete lack of mobility hurts us more than his arm helps us. Defenses know to just contain him and he isn’t running anywhere. Not Carson’s fault, he’s done a great job on two repaired knees. It’s Keim’s fault for not getting better offensive linemen ready now rather than projects like Humphries that require a veteran to change to the opposite side. What is it with the Cardinals with taking offensive lineman and saying, hey, why don’t you play a different position? Remember Big? Leonard Davis was a guard but the Cards said go play tackle, and he sucked at it. Mr. False Start couldn’t handle it. Dallas signed him and moved him back to his natural guard position and he thrived.

    And talk about bad picks, the Cards took Evan Boehm in the 4th round, Dallas took Dak Prescott 7 picks later. Remember, he took Brandon Williams in the third too and lets not forget Nkemdiche in the first. Wow Keim certainly knows where the talent is. David Johnson was just a lucky afterthought because he really wanted Abdullah. Most of us were begging for Dak, but not Keim. Keim, for the love of god please stop drafting small school/non-football school players like Gunter, Williams, Miller, Christian, and Toner. WRs might pan out, but not other positions.

    Honestly, this team needs to rebuild. As much as I would love Larry Legend to return, I can’t see him doing it. He’s given his heart and soul to this team and he deserves better. I see him hanging them up or signing with a winner, like New England. Sickens me to this day that Michael Floyd has a ring and Larry doesn’t. Larry might return if the next paragraph happens.

    Mr. Keim, you have ONE JOB this off-season, get a franchise QB in the Draft. I don’t care what it takes, but get in the top two to draft Darnold or Rosen. If you have to trade Peterson, do it. I love Peterson, but he deserves better too. He is the best CB in the NFL and this team has done nothing on the other side but patchwork. Whatever it takes, the 2018 and 2019 first round picks? Done. Throw in a third rounder too? Done. Stanton is mundane, won’t lose you games necessarily, but won’t win them either. Gabbert? Really? Sadly, I can see this team not drafting a QB, again, or selecting a guy in the 5th round. Ugh. I hope I’m wrong, but with the draft I’m usually right when I don’t want to be.

    Here’s the thing Keim, you eff up the next draft, I’m done. I’m sick of mediocrity. I’m sick of Cardinals standing for::Can Anyone Really Doubt It’s Now Another Losing Season?

    We need a franchise QB and the time is now. There is a lot of young talent on this team that could make the team great for the next decade. It all starts with a QB and an offensive line. Draft the QB, buy the line. We have the RB, a good WR core, great LBs, and the best CB in the league. Everyone can see what is missing Mr. Keim, why the eff can’t you?

  16. By Ralph Whisk on Sep 26, 2017 | Reply

    Pathetic line play on both sides and special teams are weak. Thought I was watching an early pre-season game.

  17. By Scott H on Sep 26, 2017 | Reply

    As much as I love Arians, I think his loyalty is a critical flaw. Because with the on-going poor play of our ST’s, there is NO WAY there shouldn’t have been a coaching change by now. Amos shouldn’t be here at all. He never should have made it to the end of LAST season. Should have DEFINITELY been a change made during the off-season. But he’s still here. And the results are still the same.

    I’m sorry, but you have to be able to recognize when people need to be let go. And then, to actually do it.

  18. By Scott H on Sep 26, 2017 | Reply

    Here is the sign of a weak team – we were moving the ball at will in the 1st quarter and totally dominated the Cowboys. Scored on the opening drive, looked like we would be able to score often. We were operating so efficiently on offense that the Cowboys offense didn’t even know what the ball looked like. All was well.

    Then…..a TD is negated by a holding call, then we miss a FG. And all the air goes out of the balloon right there. You FELT the momentum shift before the Cowboys even did anything. And we never got it back. THAT is a weak team. When a team loses momentum that easily and can’t do anything to get it back, that is weak.

    Just like the Bengals against the Packers on Sunday. They were cruising, they were doing everything right, had a big lead. But then they did what bad teams always do – they FOUND a way to lose. That was us last night.

    Pathetic.

  19. By Corgon on Sep 26, 2017 | Reply

    Maybe Veldheer has to play on the left side.

  20. By Dr. G. on Sep 26, 2017 | Reply

    Simply put…I cannot find much disagreement on the post game fan analysis, so I’ll add but one item: it is likely we have the Franchise QB on the inactive list every week, that being Gabbert; he just needs opportunity to prove some of us wrong.

    ’tis interesting and gratifying how avoiding the emotionally laced things can clean up the blog.

    Darren = Are there 2 Eric Gs?

    Be well Cards Fans

  21. By TucsonTim on Sep 26, 2017 | Reply

    64,000 people saw a team that is fundamentally unchanged from last season thanks to the hopes that aging veterans would play better, a poor draft, loss of play makers and no significant FA acquisitions other than 2 new kickers…how’s that working out.

  22. By Eric G on Sep 26, 2017 | Reply

    Dr G

    Nope, same person

  23. By JTDG on Sep 26, 2017 | Reply

    So, the cure for the Oline woes;

    How about the niners, who as a team, have only 3 sacks.

    So, do the cards oline get praised for one week as they give time for Palmer or do the niners finally start finding the QB?

    I’m betting on Solomon Thomas, Deforest Buckner , Elvis Dumervil and Arik Armstead to get going this week.

    Maybe the move to 2-2 and everyone says see, back on track till you have Fletcher Cox and company the following week and then Gerald McCoy and boys the next week.

    I don’t know if Palmer survives past the Tampa game.

  24. By Eric on Sep 26, 2017 | Reply

    I don’t know if it takes a rocket scientist to know that Veldheer is clearly not playing well enough to be in the nfl. Veldheer should be moved to Right Guard, Boehm moved to Center where he is supposed to be. Cards should bring in Cyrus Kouandjio for Right Tackle and get Dorian Johnson off the practice squad before he is poached like Ulrick John. Cards can put Ricky Seals Jones back on practice squad and bring up Dorian Johnson. AQ Shipley can either be cut or placed on sideline as backup. Veldheer can be cut as well if he doesn’t produce as guard. Dorian can take his spot.

  25. By lacardinalsfan on Sep 26, 2017 | Reply

    Is Amos still the Special Teams coordinator? I feel like a broken record from last year. Ugh

  26. By TucsonTim on Sep 26, 2017 | Reply

    Darren –

    Pit V response : What’s your point? Veldheer significantly degraded at left tackle under the tutelage of that coaching.

    Oh, the coaching stinks…I get it

  27. By mitchaz on Sep 26, 2017 | Reply

    As long as BA and HG are running this offense, the offensive line will never be any good. This is year 5 and every year it’s the same old same old. They insist on leaving their tackles on islands and it affects their confidence and the confidence of the whole group, because winning 1 on 1 pass pro battled versus the best DEs and DTs in the NFL is no easy task.

    This offense is an offensive lineman’s nightmare. To add insult to injury, they are f bombed all week by Goodwin, who clearly does not know how to build the players’ confidence. The scheme works against the linemen and the coaching works against them.

    Go back and look at the Steelers offenses under Arians. Big ben was getting nailed left and right. Their tackles were getting regularly beaten. It’s nothing different here.

  28. By D on Sep 26, 2017 | Reply

    Has everyone lost their minds? Is UP now Down?

    When a football player who served his country for 3 Tours of Combat has to feel like crap and basically apologize to his owner/coach/teammates for Standing for the National Anthem..when the NFL Commissioner says he is “proud of the actions of his players/coaches/owners” even though the majority of his buyers/consumers/ticket holders/FANS are angered by the Pregame circus, where Jerry Jones attempts to get the NFL to allow a decal for their helmets honoring slain Dallas Police Officers for a Pre Season Game and is Rejected.. and when Group Think has taken over, we have lost our Sport and our Country.

  29. By Tod on Sep 26, 2017 | Reply

    This is on Keim.

    You can’t always make lemonade when you are handed lemons … no matter how much sugar you add. Sometimes the lemons just aren’t that good.

    Football is one and lost on the line.

    I keep hearing about Keim Time and how great Keim is and … well … I still see the same average O line that we typically see. We don’t have one Cardinal Pro Bowler, candidate or honorable mention on the O line … that speaks volumes for Keim Time.

    To partially plagiarize a quote from Mr. Keim … “Keim has to get better”

  30. By Dan on Sep 26, 2017 | Reply

    Veldheer is done, been done. Not as advertised. Somebody needs to take his rollerskates off and put on a pair of cleats. Tired of this crap offensive line……absolutely no excuse………….beat on a 3 man rush on numerous occasions because out Tackles are not quick enough or good enough to force the edge rushers to the inside where all the help is? WOW! Obviously we need an upgrade……trade John Brown……trade Bethel…………….draft picks.

  31. By Coach K on Sep 26, 2017 | Reply

    Darren,

    In my post a few days ago I talked about using our tight ends to break down the Dallas defense. Bingo, we start the game and connecting with tight ends who are wide open 10-15 yards behind the linebackers. After that, what happened? BA changes the plan and starts his high risk play calling instead of taking what the defense was giving.

    The second half was our failure to adjust to the Dallas 3-6-2 defensive alignment which opens up the draw play and swing passes to the flats. Instead, BA attacks the deep third where it takes too long for our receivers to beat the defenders.

    This is what caused the sacks. Even with three defenders rushing. BA asking Palmer to do the impossible. Offensive line too slow and too short armed didn’t help matters.

    4th Quarter was a mess. 1 minute left BA should take the field goal and try onside kick. It was the only option for a potential win. Why did he not give us that opportunity Darren?

    That’s what I would like you to ask him?

  32. By Darren Urban on Sep 26, 2017 | Reply

    Coach K —

    RE: Final drive

    I thought he might kick to make it eight, but saying it was the only option for a potential win is simply false.

    You needed 11. So you need a TD. How does kicking a FG there make it the only option? In fact, under your scenario, the “only option for a potential win,” at least in regulation, would be to not kick the field goal. Otherwise best-case scenario was overtime.

  33. By Coach K on Sep 26, 2017 | Reply

    On a bright note:

    I am enjoying watching Calais Campbell play for the Jags.

    What an enjoyable option to the faltering Cardinals.

  34. By Scott H on Sep 26, 2017 | Reply

    Steve Keim, I would like to smack you in the mouth right now. Because you have no business putting the wrong players in the wrong positions – in Veldheer’s case, SOOOOO horribly mis-placed – then coming out and saying they need to play better.

    Dude, there are entirely too many players here right now that need to be playing better. Well, WHO is the guy bringing all these players here? That would be you.
    To echo the sentiments of JTDG, these are YOUR players. YOU are the one who is drafting them and / or has them playing where they are. At some point ( like, NOW ), we have to stop looking at all these guys that need to be playing better and we have to start looking at the people who are bringing them here.

    Again, that is YOU. When are YOU going to start taking some responsibility??

    Nkemdiche?? OMG, what a BUST this kid is! Played even fewer snaps this week than he did last. And it looks like all he has really mastered at this point is how to jump off-sides. This kid looks like he has NO CLUE what he is doing. And he is another of YOUR first round picks, now into his 2nd season. Again, where is YOUR responsibility here???

    Nkemdiche – so far, a BUST. ZERO impact in his rookie year.

    Humphries – how the hell do we know? He can’t even get on the damn field. But we DO know he also made ZERO impact during HIS rookie year. As pointed out, we don’t even know how he is going to play on the left side.

    Cooper – please, do we even need to say anything???

    Reddick – hey, maybe you finally got one right.

    What we’re ending up with is consecutive years of virtually NO impact / contribution from our FIRST ROUND picks, man! Hence, my previous statement that YOU DON’T KNOW HOW TO BUILD A TEAM.

    So, don’t you dare come out every Monday talking about how disappointed you are in this player’s play and how this player needs to play better. It is becoming clear that YOU are the source of this problem.

  35. By Halagator on Sep 26, 2017 | Reply

    Same old boo birds on here as always…Couple quick stats for you all..

    At the end of the 2016 the Cardinals are:

    86-73-1 over the past 10 seasons…that’s good for 12th best record in the league during that span and finishing .500 or better in 7 of those seasons. The 3 worst teams during that span are the Rams, Browns, and Jaguars. No we aren’t the top 3 like The Patriots, Packers or Steelers but I would say we are certainly not the worst. We are better than the league average during that 10 year span.

    The season isn’t over after 3 games and we haven’t crowned a Super Bowl champ yet…so lets see how it plays out before we call for wholesale changes. Football or in fact any sport has always been about winning the next game. On to the 49ers game!

    Lets go Cards!

  36. By clssylssy on Sep 26, 2017 | Reply

    JTDG, Mitchaz, Scott, Keviin, D, Creditcard, Dr.G., & others…
    The 9ers may not impress on paper, but did you see them play the Rams? They have passion, speed, physicality, toughness, tanacity and they fight for every blade of grass to make plays. Pierre Garson and Navarro Bowman are so energized they look like they are in their early 20’s with football IQ and savy beyond their years! Do do things worry me, yeah, gotta admit they do. And remember Brian Hoyer? He was our backup or backup’s backup and he’s mobile and throwing pretty accurate pases. I’m not sure what to make of their stats but they do pass the eyeball test and I think we’re going to need a truck of Geritol (or is that a banned substance?) ora magitian/miracle worker with a better spheel than…”You gotta do better”
    What do you think? Am I just being a little to harsh on the guys? I know within the division teams always play harder so do you think being a division game will spur us on to victory. Can old ways beat youthful enthusiasm?

  37. By Dan on Sep 26, 2017 | Reply

    Nkemdiche is a complete waste. See if he can play Tackle.

  38. By lonnie peavler on Sep 26, 2017 | Reply

    Why are we keeping left tackle warm for humpfries the man has done nothing his whole time in Arizona move veldeer back to left cut the dead beat and let’s get on with it same for a certain dead wood defensive lineman

  39. By Dan on Sep 26, 2017 | Reply

    Somebody tell Jaron Brown to pull the ball into his body after going up for a ball so the defensive back can’t knock it away……..common sense.

  40. By Dan on Sep 26, 2017 | Reply

    Can we trade Nkemdiche for a 7th round draft pick for 2025?

  41. By Dan on Sep 26, 2017 | Reply

    Can’t wait for the barn burner next week against the 49ers, should be a hoot………was hoping their would be some Clowns running around at halftime for some laughs but we should see plenty of that for 3.5 hours.

  42. By Scott H on Sep 26, 2017 | Reply

    Halagator –

    OK. But you have your view, I have mine. You are looking back at what has been and that’s fine. The last decade or so HAS been a very good time to be a Cardinals fan. No arguement.

    I’m looking at where it is heading now, looking forward. And it really isn’t looking too good. Who’s your QB after this season? When the answer to that question is that you don’t know….that’s bad.

    And let’s not forget the bottom line – even after the last 10 years, the team in all of pro sports that has gone the longest without a championship is the Arizona Cardinals.

  43. By Scott H on Sep 26, 2017 | Reply

    RE: Veldheer

    And another thing ( oh, believe me, I’m just getting started )….it isn’t like we had to shift Veldheer to the right side after week one because of an injury. It’s not like we’re asking him to try to learn his new position totally on the fly. Folks, the decision to move him to the right side was made back during the off-season. Months ago. Before training camp. Before our FIVE pre-season games.

    So….how in the name of all that is good and decent is it possible that he looks as bad as he does THREE WEEKS into the regular season??? Give me a damn break. No one saw that this was a problem??? No one saw this coming?? No, that is NOT possible. There is NO WAY he looked good over there all along but is now suddenly getting undressed in pass protection ( and by a 3-man rush, no less ). NO WAY. So, really, there is no way we should have seen what we saw last night. We sent a lineman out there last night that is horribly inept at the position they now have him playing, and there is no way this was a total surprise.

    But it sure was a total embarrassment during our home opener in front of a national audience. Oh, what a feeling that was.

    Again, this is not something that Jared Veldheer has to answer for – it is for the people who conceived this idea to move him over there and OBVIOUSLY mis-judged his ability to do the job. Oh, but today, our GM wastes no time getting on the radio and saying HE needs to play better??

    Ya know what, Steve? Why don’t you try coming out and having his back and saying that maybe this experiment to have him change to the right side was a little optimistic and maybe it was too much to ask??

    Where were ya when Drew Butler was killing us with below average punts for….what was it, three seasons??? Oh, wait….I forgot, we really don’t pay attention to the special teams. Silly me…..

  44. By Dr. G. on Sep 26, 2017 | Reply

    You gotta play better! Simple!

    Everyone knows by now that I always appreciate Palmer’s endurance, character, and never quit attitude. Palmer is a cool customer, but If I were he, it would be pandemonium in the locker room post game for putting me in jeopardy with lackluster effort & prep…a 3rd ACL! …maybe even dare to have private talks with BA, SK and MichaelB.

    Too, it is not unreasonable for guys in their early 30s to still play in their prime if they have the mental drive and stay fit. $$$ can have an effect though.

    Now, I go back to this…a QB who can save some plays with mobility and similar attributes of Palmer is one thing we need to see. That guy may be here with proper preparation. Of course, personnel need some upgrades as well.

    As for “not to worry” posters, gotta go 9-4 now for any playoff prospect.

    Bottom line == some of you just need to post better. That’ll fix things!

    Be well Patient Cards Fans. 🏈

  45. By Eric on Sep 26, 2017 | Reply

    Let’s be honest, every single first round pick since the Patrick Peterson pick has been a flop. What a joke; Michael Floyd, Jonathan Cooper, Deone Bucannon, DJ Humphries, Robert Nkemdiche and finally Haason Reddick. This is the Cardinals philosophy, don’t draft the guy who has proven himself at a specific position, let’s draft a guy who hasn’t proven anything but possibly possesses the ability to be a versatile player (Swiss army knife).
    Obviously this drafting philosophy is the reason the team is in the predicament that it’s in. Maybe it’s time to change the philosophy, stop bringing in free agents that used to play for Arians. They suck. Cut or trade Stanton, Veldheer, and Nkemdiche and bring in some young Oline. Cyrus Kouandjio, can’t be any worse than what we currently have.

  46. By JTDG on Sep 26, 2017 | Reply

    Halagator,

    Now that’s the attitude. At least we aren’t worse !! Whoo Hoo.

    I’m on board. Maybe we can hire Jeff 8-8 Fisher too. Hey, he’s not the worse coach either.

    Stanton should be QB moving forward because, although he isn’t good,he isn’t the worse either.

    Yes, I’m on board

  47. By Dan on Sep 26, 2017 | Reply

    How about have a fan pick a draft pick next year? I will volunteer my services for a 3rd round pick. I am 100% confident I can pick a better player by looking at 3 minutes of film.

  48. By JTDG on Sep 26, 2017 | Reply

    The cards have been out scored 37-19 in the forth quarter. Only against the lowly colts have the cards outscored the opponent in the 4th quarter.

    In the two losses, the cards have been outscored 34-9. Think about that.

    We pile on to the offense of line and rightfully so, they are horrible. but this defense has had the lead or tied going into the 4th quarter on both their losses.

    Good defenses hold on to leads and win close games. The problems are greater than the oline.

    Last year the slot CB and CB2 needed to be upgraded.

    You thought Badger coming back to full health would help in the slot, but he has been a liability in the losses. Not only giving up a huge pass on Monday, he was beat easily against Tate.

    Bethel, handed the job without earning it against a legit CB, has given up 3 TDs in the 4th quarter in the two losses. teams know, when the game is tight, go after Bethel and it has worked.

  49. By joe holst on Sep 26, 2017 | Reply

    how can they say the defense played well, 1 sack, 0 turnovers, 5 guys trying to tackle dez.

  50. By JTDG on Sep 26, 2017 | Reply

    Dan,

    I’m on board with that. I want the first and second round.

    But can I get at least 1 FA also? I know , without a shadow of doubt, I could do better than Keim in both areas. 100% guaranteed because I have.

  51. By Eric on Sep 26, 2017 | Reply

    Well Dan at least if a fan made the pick, the pick wouldn’t EXCLUSIVELY be a last minute riser up the draft board. You can guarantee most good fans are gonna go after the best available player that is needed by the team. I can guarantee, no fan would’ve ever drafted Jonathan cooper or Robert Nkemdiche. Deone Bucanon hasn’t even played in the position he was drafted to play.
    Most quality fans wouldn’t have let the cornerstone of the defense walk in free agency either. Not to mention letting DJ Swearinger and Tony Jefferson also walk, only to bring in players that are old enough to be their grandfathers. If they would’ve trimmed the fat off of the roster, could’ve paid all 3 of them. They had several useless vets making multi million dollar salaries.

  52. By Phx Raiders on Sep 26, 2017 | Reply

    JTDG – spot on all posts. Hate to say it, but he’s right. O-line , Corner, def coordinator

  53. By JTDG on Sep 26, 2017 | Reply

    Looks like players are having second thought;

    Ben Roethlisberger said he isn’t on board with the Pittsburgh Steelers’ decision to remain in the tunnel for the national anthem before Sunday’s 23-17 overtime loss to the Chicago Bears.

    After Steelers coach Mike Tomlin said he didn’t want players to feel forced into taking a stance, the quarterback wrote Monday that he wishes “we approached it differently” and that he believes the playing of the song is not the right time for any protest.

    “I was unable to sleep last night and want to share my thoughts and feelings on our team’s decision to remain in the tunnel for the National Anthem yesterday,”

  54. By shannon robinson on Sep 27, 2017 | Reply

    Maybe you all have never been on a team that lost a few out of the gate. Maybe you all haven’t had your ass handed to you in a game one week and worked to recover again. Boo birds is an apt description – I’ve been in the stadium and heard it before. Do you always fire everyone you work with and burn down your company after a major set back? Try not to panic, take your angry pill, grab your towel, and try to relax – it’s a long season. Don’t give up just because you are one game out of first place.

  55. By Scott H on Sep 27, 2017 | Reply

    joe hoist –

    Yeah, I don’t see where the defense played that well, either. Did I hear someone say they thought the defense played lights out?? Really? Damn, I watched the wrong game again!

    Lights out…..yeah. Well, I will say this – after the first half, that is exactly what I did. I turned the lights out and went to bed.

  56. By Hammy on Sep 27, 2017 | Reply

    Well, this season so far has been a huge disappointment but it is far from over. We are just a game back from leading this division. We might just have the worst OLine in the league after 3 weeks of play. I would say we will be a whole lot better once we switch Veldheer back to his natural position of left tackle because he is getting embarrassed on the right side. Put DJ back to Right tackle and with Iupati returning we should be good. With that said, I like what the receivers are able to do as far as spacing and route running.

    I hope this isnt a “rebuilding” year but if it really is I would imagine that at some point they will have Blaine Gabbert as our starting QB. If this is truly Palmer and Fitz last year, this would be a bummer if this is the best product we can put on the field in hopes of finally winning a championship for this franchise. I have been a fan for 15 years and find myself getting really tired of all the hype. We seemed to have changed the culture in AZ and are not the laughing stock of the NFL like we use to be. Its time for this franchise to win a championship! I really hope the front office and coaching staff figure this thing out!

  57. By faster on Sep 27, 2017 | Reply

    catman/dawson, maybe its a mental problem, if you have to expect a block anytime you want to kick? and maybe its the line before the kicker? and maybe the line and their coach need really a kick ….

    larsen, sowell, watford, sendlein, id never thought i will miss them so much. and i find it strange, that veldheer, the best left tackle we have (at the moment) should start right, because humphries is the future (maybe). but who am i to questioning managment, coaches and longtime fans?

    by the way, did i mention, that i do not want to start stanton against the 49`s?
    (the 49`s have in three games only three sacks, so palmer should be safe, most probably).

    but that will change the week after next 🙂

    and i really believe this team can change and go to the playoffs.

  58. By clssylssy on Sep 27, 2017 | Reply

    Reading through the comments would almost be amusing if it weren’t so pathetic and sad. The very things that some of us have been focused on and critical of all off season, have come to pass and everyone acts as if this is an unexpected and shocking turn of events. Scott, you feel like smacking Steve Keim in the mouth…well, get in line buddy, I think many of us experienced that same visceral impulse when hearing him come out after a game like MNF and has the nerve to criticize our team, telling them “they just have to get better”. How do you suggest that can be accomplished? Yesterday, listening to the Red Sea Report, I about lost it when Bertrand Berry said, “Steve Keim, being a former lineman, is uniquely qualified to know about Offensive Lines”! What? That wasn’t decades ago in college, not the NFL! Apparently he wasn’t that good, LOL!
    When I hear really stupid remarks like that, it frustrates me as a former healthcare professional bc it’s like telling someone to get well and be productive ,without a treatment plan or the means to effect change. And, after being exposed on national television like we were, wouldn’t the appropriate response be some action in the front office to help give our players the needed support by signing some players (as other teams have done and continue to do as they lose people to injury) and try to make improvements?
    As it has been pointed out not only on this thread by also Monday night by Jon Gruden, some of our players were left out on an island to die by themselves without any help from BA. Now, THAT is frustrating and could be one reason our team has lacked the “passion and enthusiasm” to run out and throw themselves on a sacrificial pyre.
    I put the blame squarely on the shoulders of the front office. Steve Keim is the roster builder and big kahuna, Michael B is the money man, and BA & his staff are the “department directors/suprvisorfy staff”. If I was doing their performance evaluations they would all have been given notice (except for MB) that a search committee was in the process of finding their replacements and they could either go out with dignity or as a stain on the organization–their choice.

  59. By JTDG on Sep 27, 2017 | Reply

    clssy,

    I heard the same remarks out of Bertrand. I like Bert. He seems like a good man and he is the ultimate optimist.

    But yeah, he was laying it a little think yesterday with, “all the line needs is to get healthy and a little tweek” .

    Love ya Bert, but yeah, I needed to put on waste high boots it was piling so high.

  60. By ray on Sep 27, 2017 | Reply

    Fear not, we will win just enough games to miss out on a top QB in the draft…

  61. By Maricopa Rick on Sep 27, 2017 | Reply

    To have any chance of making the playoffs this year, DJ needs to move back to the right side with Veldheer moved back to the left. Period..!!

  62. By mitchaz on Sep 27, 2017 | Reply

    Clssy—

    Loved reading your post.

    However, and I could be wrong but, I put far more of the onus on the coaches than on Steve Keim.

    Any coach who thinks that running zero backfield spread offense with an immobile, statuesque QB against blocking matches that don’t work in the team’s favor (without giving any help whatsoever to the player blocking the best DE on the other team who is feasting off one on one blocks) is putting all players at risk and trying to shoot the moon without the ace of hearts.

    This offense is a QB’s, RB’s and OL’s nightmare. There are no safety nets, no plan B’s, no reasonable expectations. It;s Russian Roulette with 5 bullets and one chamber empty.

    On the other side of the ball, when you crash the edge player down the line every play and leave gaping holes for a mobile QB like Dak Prescott, you are giving the Cowboys as easy invitation into the end zone.

    Then…should we even begin to talk about the Cardinals’ STs?

    Steve Keim just signed two of the best kickers in the game, in Dawson and Lee, and the coaches (Amos Jones and BA) have even managed to screw them up.

  63. By Phx Raiders on Sep 27, 2017 | Reply

    To those that say we are bandwagon fans…..I for one have been a fan since the Move from St. Louis.

    This is a criticism of the current state and perhaps regime. Yes, we got a taste of the good life, once Michael took over the team. And …love him or hate him…wisenhunt took us to the promised land. Maybe the current coaches inherited some amazing talent. They certainly got a great d to work with. And Bowles was a top tier DC.

    I think most here are simply saying…I told you so. We needed a CB, OL. Swearinger and Jefferson were losses that are now proving to be ones the current talent cannot overcome. Bethel is a great player and athlete, and they are misusing him at corner, ruining his career due t their stubbornness? Same with veldheer. Prob one of the best ol weaver ever had. Forcing him to learn the right side. It’s not working. Bettcher is in over his head. Ba needs to delegate all of the play calling. Whatever. This is it for Fitzgerald and Carson and maybe even PP and others.

  64. By Kevin S Mesa on Sep 27, 2017 | Reply

    Listened to Kurt Warner on Burns and Gambo yesterday talking about how the Cards need to adjust and try the short passing game to frustrate the D-linemen and get the ball out of Carson’s hand quicker. Basically he implied that the D-linemen will get bored because they can’t get to the QB and then sooner or later they’ll take some plays off and that’s when you might be able to go deep.

    Even before the O-line turned from below average to a dumpster fire, many of us have been noting for a couple years now that, while “no risk-it, no biscuit” is catchy and is great when it works (like that long pass to John Brown a couple years back on 3rd and 5 when everyone just thought we’d go for a first down), it doesn’t work often enough and kills drives. I remember Scott H and me having a dialogue about this last week after the Colts game. Tie game, 1st down around midfield with 1:44 to go. All we need to do is make a couple first downs, control the ball, run the clock down so Indy doesn’t get the ball back, and kick a FG to win. So what do we do? First we throw a pass 20 yards down the left sideline, in the general direction of Fitz, but 5-10 yards overthrown and uncatchable. Then we throw a similar pass 20 yards down the right sideline toward Jaron Brown, but 10 feet over everyone’s head (unless we were trying for a sideline reporter to catch it). That leaves us with a difficult 3rd and 10, we don’t convert, and we have to punt — now giving Indy well over a minute to potentially march down for their own game-winning FG.

    While watching that in the Colts game was frustrating, at least we ended up winning. But now, Boone is out for a few weeks, the O-line will probably have even more problems, and so Arians and Goodwin had better get their act together and plan for a short passing attack.

  65. By Big Ken on Sep 27, 2017 | Reply

    Get better? What has happened to Veldheer? With Humphries out it looks like they would have moved Jared back over to the LT spot. If this is a loosing season maybe it’s time to rebuild the team and fire some personnel.

  66. By D on Sep 27, 2017 | Reply

    JTDG

    1st Round–Franchise QB
    2nd Round- Best available OT or G

    2018 NFL draft is the one where the GM can’t mess around…if need be, give up future draft picks to move up if needed for a QB

  67. By Fmr USAF Pilot on Sep 27, 2017 | Reply

    JTDG,

    From a few threads ago:

    I support your decision to sell your Cards’ tickets.
    Now, hopefully, tens of thousands of ticket holders across the NFL teams will do the same.
    Only when Goodell, the owners and players are hit in the wallet will they get the message.

  68. By John S on Sep 27, 2017 | Reply

    Instead of picking on an individual player in the O-line, Kiem should be taking a long look in the mirror; in my humble opinion. The Cards haven’t had a good O-line in some years, and it is his job to get one; which hasn’t gone well. It’s not just protecting Palmer either, creating holes and/or blocking for the good running backs we have has been sorely lacking for some time too. Perhaps being lucky in picking up such a superb player in David Johnson has made them all forget that ongoing problem. Heck, I can only imagine what more DJ could do if that wasn’t the case, let alone the others.
    While I’m at it, I might as well add I don’t understand some of the plays called at certain times either, when they should KNOW the O-line is probably not up to meeting that specific task in what was called.
    Anyway, off the box and other than the above issues overall I thought the team looked much sharper this week. Keep it up guys…

  69. By krehbieo14 on Sep 27, 2017 | Reply

    JTDG
    Ben Roethlisberger is quite the role model for how the NFL should conduct itself over the issue of freedom of expression. Lol

  70. By Kevin S Mesa on Sep 27, 2017 | Reply

    Darren,

    Don’t see anything on the site yet about Boone being out for around a month or so with a pec injury. Is that info (which I heard on Doug & Wolf this morning) accurate?

  71. By Darren Urban on Sep 27, 2017 | Reply

    Kevin S —

    RE: Boone

    Arians said today only that Boone didn’t practice today and will be reevaluated tomorrow whether he can practice. No timetable given.

  72. By Coach K on Sep 27, 2017 | Reply

    Darren,

    Thank you for correcting me. It wasn’t our only option. But in terms of time on the clock and needing 8 points if we make the kick, it was the best option with 1 minute remaining.

    Finally, I would like to say a word about the players protest. There seems to be an effort to confuse the issue. The players say it’s not about the flag or the anthem, but racial inequality. Well, if that is the case, why did you choose to confuse the fans by appearing to disrespect the flag and the anthem.

    The correct protest time would have been before, or after the game. Not during the national anthem. This is why the public is so angry. It’s not about free speech, it’s about choosing when to make your free speech.

    As a result of this blunder by the players, the country is more divided, and now DirectTV is offering full refunds to all NFL prime ticket subscribers. Fans are burning NFL gear and plan to boycott live games. All this mess because players could not figure out the right time and place to express themselves and ended up setting the entire sports world on fire.

    Pitiful.

  73. By Kevin S Mesa on Sep 27, 2017 | Reply

    D —

    I agree that we’re going to have to spend a 1st round pick to try to get a franchise QB.

    Just remember that those “franchise QB” picks don’t always work out. Seems like they’re a lot more likely to work out when you get the #1 or #2 OA pick like Winston/Mariota or Goff/Wentz) as opposed to later like Paxton Lynch, who still can’t unseat 7th rounder Siemian, or EJ Manuel or the Locker/Gabbert/Ponder crowd from a few years ago.

    It’s just such a crapshoot. Someone mentioned earlier that we took Boehm in round 4 and Dallas took Prescott a few picks later. OK, but that’s just hindsight. Maybe there were a few people here and there high on Prescott, but no one thought he was as good as he now seems to be — that’s why guys like Lynch, Hackenberg, Kessler and Cook were taken ahead of him.

    Unfortunately I think we’re going to be a mediocre team this year but not an awful team — not a 1, 2 or 3 win team like last year’s Browns, Niners, Bears or Jags that gets a really high pick. We’ll probably be drafting somewhere like last year, and the top QB’s will be gone. I have no idea whether we’ll be able to put together a package of picks to move up, but considering our O-line problems, if we have to do that to get a QB, where are we going to get the O-line?

  74. By JTDG on Sep 27, 2017 | Reply

    krehbieo14

    Just reporting the news in Pittsburgh. Never said anyone is a role model.

    More of the point is that what is happening in Pitt is not unity. First, you have Alejandro Villanueva out with hand on heart. Then you have Tomlin saying we were supposed to be unified and obviously angry at Villanueva.

    Now you have Ben coming out saying he regrets not coming out and can’t sleep.

    Seems not everyone was united on the decisions.

  75. By Steve Keim on Sep 27, 2017 | Reply

    Veldheer has to do better. Me? No, no, no, no, no. I don’t.

  76. By JTDG on Sep 27, 2017 | Reply

    D,

    Yes, it is time to find that Franchise QB in 2018 draft. And not one of those Steve Keim/ Rod Graves late rounders.

    As for the rest of the draft, what don’t we need?

    Oline man – Of course, you need 5

    TE – Gresham is the only one on roster in 2018. Yep with that almost 8 million dollar price tag.

    WRs – With the Browns FAs and Fitz thinking retirement last off season, you may need a few.

    DLine – Nkemdiche, Gunter and Pierre are the future and have combined this year for 3 total tackles and two of them are from Pierre. I think we need some

    ILBs – Reddick and Buc seem pretty good, but Buc is due 9 million next year. Dang!!

    CBs – It goes without saying

    Safety – How about someone to join Baker.

    We are good at RB, OLB and…….. I guess that’s it.

    I’m worried about our rookie QB. Maybe Stanton should stay and take the hits till we get more OLineman. 🙂

  77. By JTDG on Sep 27, 2017 | Reply

    Phx Raiders;

    By the way, did you see that Swearinger (who is making the same per year as Bethea) is the team captain for Washington?

    Think about that. He is new to the team and his teammates named him a captain.

    Yet we were told that Jefferson and Swearinger were not leaders and we needed more leadership.

  78. By TucsonTim on Sep 27, 2017 | Reply

    Scott H – Always appreciate your passion for the Cardinals even when I don’t agree. WRT to Veldheer and the pre-season I couldn’t agree more. In fact, I remember commenting on here I thought it was a poor decision not to have the O-line play at least one series in Canton. Terrible terrible terrible coaching. Veldheer didn’t just start playing poorly in Detroit.

    Frankly, I feel badly for Veldheer. He was considered a fine LT when he came here from Oakland, and he helped the Cardinals immensely. Finishing his career failing at RT is surely not how he planned for his legacy to play out.

    Mitch – Russian roulette with 5 bullets. Come on man, no risk it no…. you know the rest

  79. By D on Sep 27, 2017 | Reply

    Curious to see how many season ticket holders across the NFL will “kneel” instead of renewing tickets for next year.

    Cards rebuild will be Extensive-
    (too much for 1 off season)

    Franchise QB in 2018 Draft.
    (maybe extend Gabbert on a 2 yr to bridge until Franchise is ready)
    Assuming Palmer retires and Stanton is not resigned

    WR
    If Larry Retires (it will be the saddest day in AZ Sports history after P. Tillman)

    Resign Jaron Brown and B. Golden. Will still have JJ. Nelson and C. Williams under Contract.
    Let John Brown leave. Add 1 Free agent WR for 2018 and look for #1 WR in 2019
    Draft.

    TE
    Gresham under contract for 2018. Will need to add 1 TE in Free agency and 1 from the draft. Let others walk.

    OL
    Tackle- W. Holden and D.J Humphries under contract. Will need to use at least a 2nd round draft pick in 2018 draft. Add a Vet RT in free agency
    Let Wetzel and Veldheer Walk

    Guard- Iupati under contract until 2019–will need to take a pay cut for 2018.
    Boehm under contract, I would move to Center. See how Boone does, maybe bring him back. Although I would use a 3rd round draft pick in 2018 draft on a G selection. Wait and see on D. Johnson -Release AQ after this year.

    RB- Pray D. Johnson healthy return. Bring back Penny and maybe Kerwin Williams. Have TJ Logan under contract. Let C. Johnson walk. See how Ellington does rest of year if bring back or not.

    Defense:

    OLB-Jones and Golden under contract for 2018. (need to extend Golden next year). Bring back K. Martin for Special Teams. Use later round draft pick on a OLB.

    ILB- Reddick and Bucannon under contract for 2018. Something needs to be done on Dbuc contract, meaning he needs to get on the field to be determined.
    Let Dansby walk. Maybe bring back J. Bynes based on production rest of year.

    Safety: Mathieu, Baker and Bethea under contract. I would look to bring back Branch if he keeps playing well.

    CB: Peterson, B. Williams under Contract. Need to add a Free agent for 2018 because high draft picks should be used on QB and OL.

    DL: Mauro, Gunter, Nkemdiche under Contract. Maybe bring back X. Williams and or O. Pierre. Need to add 2 bodies for 2018 either free agent and or draft.

    Need a New Kicker for 2018. Jury out on Punter- (maybe A. Lee rebounds, see how he does the rest of the year-as he is under contract)

    Of Course all this is After what BA does. If Palmer leaves, I see BA going with him. I don’t see the current OC or DC moving into HC.

    2018 draft:
    1-franchise QB
    2-RT
    3-RG
    4-DL

  80. By JTDG on Sep 27, 2017 | Reply

    Coach K,

    Funny, Jason Whitlock, a black college football player, of “Speak for Yourself” TV program fame, said players should play football and leave these issues to people who do this full time.

    Don’t know if I agree, but a bold statement.

    He also said, hey, They are at work.

    (not saying in any way Darren would do this) But Let’s say Darren decided he was going to write a piece that was way out of line with the beliefs of the AZ Cardinals . The cardinals are offended and fire him.

    Would they have a right to do this? Of course, because he is expressing a view as a employee that reflects on his employer, the cardinals and the Bidwills.

    If he did it on his own time, great. He shouldn’t be fired, because he should have a right to express his opinions on his time. That is what the First Amendment protects. No matter how much you dislike it, how hateful, people have a right to say it. But on their own time. This is where the First Amendment people are lost at.

    So, looking at the NFL, the players, while at work, representing their employers, the owners, decided to express themselves in a way that many find offensive and the owners decided to say, I’m OK with that. What they are doing is something I support.

    So, now it rolls over to the customer. The fans. Now, as you noted, many fans are calling sponsors, calling teams, burning jerseys, and talking about a Nov 12th boycott of the NFL.

    So, now the owners are put into an interesting situation. How far do we let this go? We are talking about very wealthy men, who have a product worth billions and billions. If you lose 5% or 10%, do owners change their minds? Does the Commissioner step in to take the pressure off the owners?

    So, what happens when the protest come in conflict with the bottom line? Owners might care about a cause but not over their money. People understand this and ratings dropped. What happens next week or the week after?

    Again, the players are employees. Owners can and do have a standard of conduct for players to follow. Losing ratings and therefore money, what if some owners said you have to have your hand on your heart or else, he could fire someone.

    Let’s play this out, if you break personal conduct rules, could a team ask for signing bonuses back? The NFLPA will then sue on behalf of the player/s. You could have players striking against the owners.

    It will be interesting if you see 95% of the players standing and yet the ratings keep going down. What will happen. Hmmm.

  81. By Darren Urban on Sep 27, 2017 | Reply

    JTDG —

    RE: Personal/own time

    I agree it’ll be interesting — in part because unlike me, who can be replaced by many, many people, it’s not so easy to replace some of these talented athletes with someone as talented. Oh, and many happen to be Black and care about this topic very deeply.

  82. By JTDG on Sep 27, 2017 | Reply

    Darren,

    Exactly, which is why it will be interesting to see just how far this will go.

    I think players who, Like Jenkins (who with Boldin listed why the players took a knee), are very passionate about the issue.

    I also think business men are passionate about money.

    I think many people are passionate about the Flag.

    Something will have to give.

  83. By Darren Urban on Sep 27, 2017 | Reply

    JTDG —

    RE: Something giving

    I agree.

    I also think of a very civil Twitter convo I had the other day. The gentleman was cordial, but was truly curious about why the players felt the need to do this. I presented the side of the players who were upset, and why this started, because of many feeling that minorities were treated unequally too often, and too often by police.

    His response was that it had nothing to do with this great country (and hence, shouldn’t have to do with the flag). And that’s where I see the disconnect. Too many think this has nothing to do with the country. I completely understand those — like yourself — who are upset by the protest during the anthem. But exactly how should this be approached to get everyone paying attention? Because I think many people would rather not think about it at all, whether it is when they are watching football, or sitting at home, or doing anything.

  84. By JTDG on Sep 27, 2017 | Reply

    Darren,

    Oh, and do you remember the “scabs” . Don’t put it past an owner to move on from big name players

  85. By Darren Urban on Sep 27, 2017 | Reply

    JTDG —

    RE: Scabs

    Yes, I remember scabs. I also remember fans didn’t like scabs. If it’s about money, keeping the best players is still going to make you more.

  86. By Scott H on Sep 27, 2017 | Reply

    Tucson Tim –

    Hey, it’s alright if we disagree, as long as we understand we’re on the same side and we are willing to hear each other. I hear your passion coming through loud and clear as well.

    Yeah, I agree – I feel bad for Veldheer, too. Does he even look healthy to you? He looks like he can’t even get down into a stance. I don’t know, he just didn’t look right.

  87. By Coach K on Sep 27, 2017 | Reply

    Darren and JTDG

    Bottom line is, he players should have given much more thought on this and understood the timing for their actions were wrong, and that NFL football is heavily tied to our military and patriotic fans.

    I don’t think they understood the visual implications of their actions. Visually it appears offensive to the flag and our country. And in the media world, the imaging and messaging is spun in so many directions, you need to think clearly before doing anything.

    I have to agree with Elway. Sports is no place for politics.

  88. By Darren Urban on Sep 27, 2017 | Reply

    Coach K —

    RE: Timing

    I’ll ask the same to you that I asked of JTDG. Exactly how should this be approached to get everyone paying attention?

  89. By Scott H on Sep 27, 2017 | Reply

    JTDG –

    I think we may need to follow the path the Cowboys took, which was taking the time to draft a complete O-line full of stud horses ( or at least VERY solid players ), get the line in place, then put the right skill players in behind them. I mean, anyone who thinks the Cowboys are suddenly so much better is because they found Dak and Zeke in the draft last year is an idiot. Yes, I believe they are BOTH very good players. But you already had the bed made for them and they have had an excellent line to pave the way for them.

    If ya don’t think that matters, just ask Andrew Luck. I swear, Andrew Luck has grounds to bring legal charges against the Colts front office for doing such an in-explicably poor job putting the right players around / in front of him.

    But I agree….and you saw this coming – it is time to tear it down and start from the ground up. Too many pieces here that are either gone to retirement after this year, have already started to break down, or just can’t be depended on because of the injuries.

    Frankly, I think we should probably start seeing what Gabbert might have to offer during the 2nd half of THIS season if / when it has become apparent that 2017 is a lost cause. Seriously. Why wait? Why not KNOW going into next year’s draft if you truly need to find your QB of the future?

    In other words, Steve Keim has to show he can actually build a team. You think he has it in him?

  90. By clssylssy on Sep 27, 2017 | Reply

    Mitchaz…
    I’m not saying that the coaches don’t share in the blame. However, for me, it all rolls down hill. If you look at successful business and organization, it all begins with strong leadership, intelligent and forward thinkers who are not only the best
    in their fields but are constantly finding innovative ways to make their organizations a cut above the rest. They employ the best, most accomplished people and hold them to a higher standard.. The people at every level strive for excellence and bringing out the best in the people under them. Mr. Keim just hasn’t excelled in his job as far as building the roster, making good choices in finding special talents nor has he provided his coaching staff with the resources for them to do their jobs either, as we have done virtually nothing to move this team forward each season.
    I don’t think this is solely SK’s fault as coaches need to be able to be open minded to trying new things and adapting to what they have to work with. I don’t think BA, in the last few years, has had that creative energy to inspire his players but rather has repeatedly thrown his players under the bus and publically devalued them, which is a moral killer. Players who feel they are not a valued part of the project become apathetic and play without the pride and passion to win.
    This season was doomed after little to no action by the organization in the off season. The loss of DJ and others was a serious blow but is not the first time we’ve lost key players and we should be able to reset and reboot, like other teams do. The Patriots do this all the time, which is one reason they are Champions,
    I have tried to not over react and give it a month before declaring things hopeless as teams don’t really seem to “jell” for a month or so, however these early losses can be the difference between making the playoffs and not, even if things do come together. I am however, doubtful as we have just too many weaknesses that cannot fix themselves without an infusion of man power from the front office.
    Winning this weekend against a division team at home will be huge and probably seal our fate.
    Hopefully, our defense will know going into the game that they are going to need to probably carry it or at least play an entire sixty. We will be facing a very different 49er team than we are used to who are fast, physical and tenacious. It looks as if we may get some of our players back and hopefully they will be up to the task as it is going to either be a dog fight or a very long and excrutiating day!
    Let’s hope that all our guys are mentally up for this and can turn this things around.
    GO CARDS!

  91. By Coach K on Sep 27, 2017 | Reply

    Darren,

    If you are asking what the league should do, I say determine a time and place to make your position heard off the field of play and on your own time, not the time of fans paying money to watch a performance. They did not pay for your opinion. They paid to watch the game.

    Owners need to set the rules and if players don’t like it. McDonalds is hiring.

  92. By dynosoar on Sep 27, 2017 | Reply

    Darren and JTDG,

    I feel with another article out there I’ll ask if I can join your conversation and very few others will see this (as many just want to focus on football.)

    And trusting ya’ll will say yes, someone locally gave an answer that would solve everything, I think. (Although, I’ve been known to miss sometimes, not unlike receivers, hehe.)

    “They could take a knee in front of their local police department or courthouse. I’m sure that if a team’s worth of pro athletes took a knee in front of the police station(s) or courthouse(s) in the cities their team represents, it would hit the news big-time. Especially, if all the NFL teams did it. Then, there would be no confusion as to whether or not they respect the flag and anthem.”

    I believe this individual has the right idea, especially after last weekend, if the kneeling/standing with arms locked took place at Police headquarters as this individual suggested, it would be all over the media.

    My 2 cents worth, for what it’s worth after inflation.

  93. By faster on Sep 28, 2017 | Reply

    @r.berger, elway and villanueva, white man defending white mans politics, really a rolle model? i wouldn`t cite them …

    @jtdg, what is the difference between your opinion and that of an white slave owner from 1840? i owe them, they have to do what i want?

    if i would be a owner of an nfl team, i would take back any season tickets, blackballing any who give back, and then rise the tv fees.

    lol, which unpolitical sport would you then look? icehockey, with all the patriotic russians?

  94. By clssylssy on Sep 28, 2017 | Reply

    Coach K
    You are assuming that you speak for all the fans and that many can’t relate and understand what this is really all about. There are many minorities (even some educated white people) who understand that this is not about the flag, anthem, or military, and who are ticket buying fans just like you (except for color).
    It seems that the league and the owners have already spoken. What part didn’t you understand?

  95. By JTDG on Sep 28, 2017 | Reply

    faster,

    No different than the Hispanic woman who owns my company and tells me what to do.
    She has guidelines, a dress code, personal conduct policies, and even how my incoming phone message should sound.

    Its called, she owns the company, she makes the rules. It is a very easy concept for most.

    I don’t even understand the rest

  96. By JTDG on Sep 28, 2017 | Reply

    Scott H

    Keim:

    Simply no. To change something and move in a new direction, you have to admit you are wrong. I don’t see that happening.
    He believes in his process. He has his plan. To suddenly say, these lineman I picked aren’t good and why did I overpay for this TE, I just don’t see it.

  97. By Scott H on Sep 28, 2017 | Reply

    Now we’re bringing slave owners from the 1840’s into this. Really? So, that is where we are now? Back in the 1800’s?

    No, folks, we’re not. Good lord, can we just deal with the problem that sits before us right now without bringing the way things were almost 200 years ago into it? Our current problems are complicated enough without branching out into extremes that are just so cosmically irrelevant.

    At some point, it reaches a point where if you really don’t like the way things are in this country, you have the FREEDOM to find a better life somewhere else. I hear where women in Saudi Arabia can now drive a car. And this just came to be yesterday, folks. YESTERDAY. YESTERDAY, women were given the right to drive a car – something WE can take for granted in this country because we’re a million miles down the road from that. THAT sounds like the 1840’s. Again, we’re not there anymore. So stop trying to put us there.

    Again, feel free to try finding a better life somewhere else if it’s so bad here. Just make sure you can drive a motor vehicle there before ya do.

  98. By krehbieo14 on Sep 28, 2017 | Reply

    Coach K
    Elway is much about politics and most people know it. He is not an owner. The NFL owners and players responded to a distraction created by Trump to continue splintering the electorate and taking the focus off social injustice. It’s that simple. Most people in the military understand that they fought for people’s right to express themselves freely. It has nothing to do with patriotism. Enough said.

  99. By JTDG on Sep 28, 2017 | Reply

    Darren,

    Back to your question. It is a good one. Here is my opinion

    I have coached Football, Basketball, Baseball and Softball at a HS level over the years. One thing I know is, as a coach, it didn’t matter what color or background a player is, if he/she can help us win, then he/she works for me.

    Teams come together because of one thing. Regardless of backgrounds, they have a common goal to win. The common goal is what brings the team mates together.

    So, when you come out and take a knee, I think two things;
    1. Many are not on board with how you are doing you protest
    2. Many do not agree with your protest

    Unfortunately, the NFL has not presented a good case for people to rally behind a cause, while the Flag is a symbol that has represented the greatest nation for a long time.

    Think about 9/11. Remember that moment after, when they decided to play the first games and Whitney Houston sang the Anthem and everyone united. It was an amazing moment in American History. The country, regardless of race, was united.

    So, first, players need to use their platform to “make the case” to America about their cause. Once you rally behind a cause, then you can find a uniting way to demonstrate.

    There are many reasons why people are not buying into the cause. I could go on with why people do not buy in if you want to go there, but that is my answer to your first question.

  100. By Darren Urban on Sep 29, 2017 | Reply

    JTDG —

    RE: Discussion

    First I’ll say I appreciate you and others getting into a civil discussion. For obvious reasons, it’s probably better to not go much further.

    But (and there’s always a but, right?) …

    I remember 9/11 clearly. It was an amazing time of coming together coming out of horror. That is so true. But the emotion of the moment is why that was, in large part. The same reason, for instance, Pat Tillman felt so strongly about going into the military, and then when he became disillusioned within the military — not with his choice or what it meant to be a soldier, but for what they were ostensibly fighting for. (This has been well-chronicled.)

    It is impossible for everyone in a country or a team or whatever to completely agree on everything. There is always some conflict, even with good teams. I’ve seen it up close.

    Finally, I know there are many reasons for why people are not buying into the cause. Some, I am sure, are reasonable. But we both know some are ugly.

  101. By JTDG on Sep 28, 2017 | Reply

    Darren,

    BTW, what do you think of Rooney’s comments

    Pittsburgh Steelers President Art Rooney II issued the following letter to Steelers fans on Tuesday.

    To Steelers Nation:

    I want to reach out to you, the members of Steelers Nation, based on what I believe is a misperception about our players’ intentions in not taking the field for the national anthem in Chicago. The intentions of Steelers players were to stay out of the business of making political statement by not taking the field. Unfortunately, that was interpreted as a boycott of the anthem — which was never our players’ intention.

    Yesterday, I received an email from a Steelers fan who said tell the players to just play football. That is exactly what they wanted to do. They wanted their sole focus to be on playing the game, while also coming together as a unified team.

    Sounds like a mess in Pittsburgh. To top it off they got beat by the bears showing their heads weren’t there, especially after hearing Big Ben.

  102. By Darren Urban on Sep 29, 2017 | Reply

    JTDG —

    RE: Steelers comment

    Here is what I think.

    When Kaepernick started this, he was simply sitting down. Nate Boyer, a former military man who was playing football, was not thrilled. He talked to Kaepernick and told him, if he was going to protest, at least kneel. Kneeling is what soldiers do to honor a fallen friend, and that would be a better compromise. So that is what Kaepernick did.

    Obviously, many people were still mad, even though the suggestion of the kneel came from a military man.

    Then came last weekend. Hardly any players were upsetting people with this protest. Then the President decided he’d like to get involved. So the Steelers tried to stay out of it by being in the locker room, and we know that whole story. But here’s what I heard from my end starting right after the President said what he said: If the players aren’t going to stand, they should just stay in the locker room. So teams like the Steelers did that, and people were mad anyway. I heard, they better not kneel, or I am done. So many teams — including the Cardinals — stood. And people were mad, because they linked arms. It went from you shouldn’t disrespect the flag by kneeling to “if you do anything but stand and place your hand over your heart, you’re a bad person.” Heck, the Cowboys were booed when they kneeled before the game Monday and the flag wasn’t even out and the anthem hadn’t even started! So are people mad at protesting the anthem, or mad about protesting period?

    I had been told long ago that the hand over the heart thing was optional. I have always stood, I have sometimes sung the national anthem (not in the press box, but when I am in the stands) but I haven’t had the hand over the heart most of the time.

    Ultimately, I understand the Black players’ frustration. Because anthem or not, many people don’t want to hear their concerns. And I still believe that is a chunk of this whole thing. Yes, the anthem protests are far-reaching and aggravating to a great many people on their face. I don’t dispute that. But this is not a singular issue.

    That is what I think.

  103. By JTDG on Sep 29, 2017 | Reply

    Darren,

    The reason I wrote back here is because I thought few would see. I think it is best to end it also because most will never open their mind enough to change it on either side. But to you, just a couple last thoughts.

    Someone asked, did Tillman die for nothing? Knowing how he felt about what was going on and where Afgahnastan is now, Well, it becomes complicated doesn’t it ? I do think if Pat could come back for a day, he would surprise people with this comments.

    I do also think, whatever the plan for the Steelers, it blew up in their face and you have them and Broncos, Cowboys, ect saying they will stand 100%. People can draw their own conclusions, but what did the kneel down accomplish but division?

    But to me, here is the real problem. a few bullet points. please read it all.

    * Most of the police brutality cases (some including black officers on blacks) turned out to be false narratives. Including hands up that is still being used.
    * In 2015, Washington Post released a story showing Whites are killed by police twice as many times as blacks (regardless of reason). So the thought blacks are targeted,seems to be false also.
    * The poorest people in society are single moms and according to Don Lemon of CNN, 72% of blacks are born out of wedlock. A further story to debunk this, found that 67% had no father figure. a study in 2004 showed 87% of the youths locked up came from single homes. (Source: “The Economic Costs of Childhood Poverty in the United States,” The Journal of Children and Poverty March 2008)
    * In 2015, 381 blacks were killed by police while roughly 6000 blacks were murdered by other blacks. You are 15 times more likely to be killed by another black than a police officer.

    I have other bullet points, but you get the point. It seems there is a false narrative of what truly is the issue. It would seem that instead of saying it is the system or police, we should probably think it could be the destruction of the family in black culture.

    Then my 17 year old daughter weighed in with me. She said, part of the reason blacks grow up with no father is the Gov’t brought drugs into the poor neighborhoods, then began to arrest them.They were given much larger sentences than whites doing the same thing. In fact blacks are 5 times more likely to be arrested than whites.

    She argued that with drug use and drug crimes, black families have been ripped apart. I said, OK, that makes sense, why isn’t that the narrative? Why is the media pushing thugs like Mike Brown and not getting to the issues? She said, because they want it to continue. Pretty smart girl.

    I then thought of John Singleton’s movie.
    The movie “Boyz in the Hood” showed the issues perfectly. they all were poor but Dough boy had no father, had issues with his mom, had no future, no education, no job, and he was the violent one. While Ricky was trying to make it out as a football player but was gunned down by other blacks and left a girlfriend to be a single mom and a baby without a father in poverty. Meanwhile, Trey had a father, who kept him straight, had a job and made sure he had an education and he made it out.

    Lawrence Fishborne, the dad of Trey, made an important speech saying “why is there a liquer store and gun store on every corner in the black neighborhood. They want us to kill ourselves” Isn’t that what is really happening?

    I think that movie, from my experience, was as true as it could be. I thought it was interesting that John Singleton showed a police officer harass the two boys, but he showed a black officer doing it. I found that very interesting.

    At the end, you see Dough Boy and Trey sitting on a porch. DB had just killed those who killed Ricky. But DB (ice Cube) makes a statement, saying I guess they don’t know or don’t care what is going on in the hood.

    I thought, I have tried to help people all my life and if we will talk about the real issues and solutions instead of political talking points and false narratives, I’m on board.

  104. By CARDS62 on Sep 30, 2017 | Reply

    JTDG

    I try to not get political on here, but you and your daughter are right, and I even have a solution that will never be implemented but it is really quite simple.

    Some people are born to be great parents by the time they are 16 to 20, but most of us including me would have been a horrible parent at that age. I have 3 boys and one is grown and all are good people, far from perfect like their dad, but good people.

    The solution is place all females on birth control at a young age determined by the medical profession, now parental rights come first so their parent or parents can sign a form stating they will be financially responsible and legally refuse this order. Many will argue my plan will eliminate life, but I argue it will just delay life for a better life for children and especially their mothers. Our resources are limited now, 20 trillion in debt, so lets use our respources on the children already born so that they can change our country for the better. NO woman has ever been drafted and sent off to die for their country so boys have to go to war and girls have to wait to have babies. We are 20 trillion in debt and have so many more non soldiers on disability compared to China which has so many more people than we do and many more especially involved in more dangerous manufacturing or mining jobs. Do you think China has more and better safety regulations than the USA? This tells us what we are doing is not working. Please show me in the US Constitution or the Bill of Rights that states a person is entitled to free health care, free housing, free food, and a free cell phone if they give birth to a child? 20 trillion in debt going to 25 trillion then 30 trillion then 40 trillion. Just a matter of time until rest of the world figures out US Dollar will be worthless in the future. I hope for change but see nothing to be encourage about coming from our leaders or population so if it continues will be buying gold in the future.

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