Back to Hayes and Deuce debate

Posted by Darren Urban on July 21, 2010 – 4:09 pm

It turns out linebacker Gerald Hayes, who has been battling back trouble since last year, will be on the sidelines to begin training camp, Kent Somers reports, after he had a surgical procedure a few weeks ago. Coach Ken Whisenhunt said Hayes will be reevaluated as the Cards go up to camp but it’s going to take some juggling. The Cards were already trying to figure out one inside linebacker spot with Paris Lenon and rookie Daryl Washington and now they will have to figure out a contingency plan (which I am sure has been in the works) in case Hayes’ return drags out. It’s a difficult situation with Hayes because backs are always troublesome injuries.

The situation with Deuce Lutui is a little more cut and dried (Somers was on fire today). Whisenhunt acknowledged Lutui was indeed 396 pounds when he signed his new deal and Whisenhunt repeated to Kent what he said last week, that he was hoping for Lutui to have been in shape and probably could have benefited from the Cards’ offseason conditioning program. Lutui’s agent Ken Harris strongly disagreed. “If the club isn’t pleased with him, I’m happy to assist them on a possible trade,” Harris told Somers. “Otherwise, we should let his play on the field this season speak for itself like it did last year.”

I don’t see a trade happening. The Cards, before Lutui signed, still saw him as a long-term piece to the puzzle. There has to be disappointment in the weight gain, but there probably isn’t surprise. Those first few days of camp will be real interesting.

Finally, in case you didn’t see it, info is out on the new Protect The Nest plans when it comes to single-game tickets. The marquee games this year? No surprise: Monday night against the Niners and Christmas night against the Cowboys.

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25 Responses to “Back to Hayes and Deuce debate”

  1. By Chris B on Jul 21, 2010 | Reply

    Who is Lutui’s replacement if he is benched? Hadnot?

  2. By darrenurban on Jul 21, 2010 | Reply

    Chris B —

    Right now, Lutui is already on the bench. The lineup this offseason was, from LT to RT, Levi, Faneca, Sendlein, Wells, Keith.

  3. By OLdude on Jul 21, 2010 | Reply

    Surely Mr. Harris can do better than THAT ! If that is the response from an agent (ostensibly the player’s diplomatic representative) knowing that Lutui’s weight IS a factor in his ability to perform and the first thing out of his mouth is blah blah ……trade” Deuce need to “TRADE” his agent for someone like…………Lon Babby!!!!!

  4. By Randy "The Shoe" on Jul 21, 2010 | Reply

    Hey Darren,

    I’m coming from Los Angeles, and I get one game a season, so I decided to go to the home opener against the Faders, since the Dodgers are playing the D-Bags that weekend.

    My question is, what do you think the chances are that it will be a black-out game? Cause I am stoked to be sporting my new Adrian Wilson black jersey. Or is it possible that we cannot make it a Black-Out game because the Raider’s away jersey is black. Maybe you can settle this debate between my brother-in-law (Fader’s fan) and myself.

  5. By darrenurban on Jul 21, 2010 | Reply

    Randy —

    Unfortunately, I don’t know what the black jersey games will be. I would doubt the Raiders, because of their black jerseys (although home team can pick and they can tell the Raiders to wear white). I just don’t see the Cards sporting the Raiders’ main color.

  6. By CardsFan on Jul 21, 2010 | Reply

    “I don’t see a trade happening.” That’s disappointing. With the depth now on the OL and with Hayes’ surgery, I was hoping they might get him into shape early in camp and then consider trading him for some ILB help.

  7. By brad oneill on Jul 21, 2010 | Reply

    the new agent is showing off for his client and not working in his best interest. the proper response would have been. duece has been concentrating on strengh training all summer he was embarrased that dockett could out press and squat him and he devoted the summer to becoming the most powerful lineman in the league. Now that his power cycle is through he is going to burn through a cardio program and work his way into playing weight. our trainer feels that by playing through the extra pounds in camp he will have that much more of a step come september when he is at his target weight of 350.

  8. By Aaron on Jul 21, 2010 | Reply

    Deuce is going to be in a world of hurt if he shows up to training camp at anything over 360, which is likely now that it’s confirmed he was indeed knocking on the door of 400 pounds.

    Does his agent honestly expect any other team in the league to be ok with signing a player who has demonstrated a weight problem that is essentially 60 pounds too much? He already wasn’t viewed worth a second round pick as a RFA by other teams. Wells is more consistent anyways, just let Deuce ride the bench in case of an injury.

  9. By Jim in Missouri on Jul 21, 2010 | Reply

    This has to be bad news for Lutui’s future in Arizona.

    While I’m sure Whisenhunt won’t do anything that would be bad for the team just to prove who’s boss and massage his ego, he doesn’t seem to be the type of coach who will let an agent call him out without there being some repercussions.

    Especially from a player who is currently a backup and reported at nearly 4 bills. That’s career suicide.

  10. By Mike on Jul 21, 2010 | Reply

    Hey Darren,
    I know you already said you dont know when the black jersey games are but do you know if it will be announced before the season starts or will it be a week by week decision? Id vote monday night 9ers game so pass that along for me 🙂

  11. By darrenurban on Jul 21, 2010 | Reply

    Mike —

    I don’t know when that will come up but I would guess it will be before the season.

  12. By cheesebeef on Jul 21, 2010 | Reply


    You’re “sure” there’s a contingency plan? We’ve know Hayes has had back problems for a long time. Don’t you think the best time to have executed that plan was when it WASN’T dire circumstances, putting the team in an extremely bad position, especially considering how atrocious the depth is at that position to begin with? This wreaks of old reactive FO nonsense. Anyone could have seen that an aging thumper with back problems, who missed time last year would AT LEAST need competition, if not very good depth behind him. Waiting until the inevitable (and we all knew whether it was surgery or during the season Hayes back WOULD be a problem) strikes leaves a really bad taste in this fan’s mouth. Tell me, what happens if something happens to Toler? You know, our unproven starting CB with pathetic depth behind him? You “sure” there’s a contingency plan there as well?

  13. By darrenurban on Jul 21, 2010 | Reply

    Cheese —

    Wow, it’s been a while since I have seen your glass-really-really-empty approach.

    To clarify, I said I was sure there was a contingency plan. I’m not saying it’s a plan that will definitely work. I’m saying they had to have planned, especially if Hayes had the procedure weeks ago.

    Maybe they really like Reggie Walker. I don’t know. I’m not sure who else out there is more than just “a guy,” better than Walker and Beisel (who have been in the system). I’m sure you feel they should have drafted someone, but tell me, what position goes wanting in the draft when taking another linebacker higher?

  14. By Former Steeler Fan on Jul 21, 2010 | Reply

    What an arrogant *** Harris is!!!
    His player obviously dissed his teammates and the organization.
    It’s too bad that the Cards didn’t reduce their offer.
    Duece will pay in camp (and I just wish that I could be there to see it).

  15. By James on Jul 22, 2010 | Reply

    This comment from Deuce’s agent was the last straw for me!This shows that Duece(and his agent’s) attitude was “So if you’re not going to give me a new deal I’ll just sit on my butt and gain 58 pounds and to heck with the Cardinals”.Then after that foolishness was frowned upon then this goofy agent says “If the club isn’t pleased with him I’m happy to assist them on a trade”.HUH?!So the Cardinals should be “happy” with Duece coming in weighing 396 pounds?They should be happy about that?Then the way “Mr. Harris” arrogantly put it out there just took the cake.If I was Coach Duece would rot on the bench the whole season.

  16. By cardattac on Jul 22, 2010 | Reply

    Man Deuce and his agent need to pull there heads out of there collective buts and realize it is a privilege to play in the NFL. I dont understand some of there agents man.

    Anywho…. Off topic, I just read Jason Cole’s article on Beanie. What a joke!!! He makes it sound like no body knew there was talk of him bein soft coming in to the NFL. His ankle and all. But I dont remember him missing any games last year do to injury… Or for any reason. I saw his ability from the first preseason game last year. Every time he got the ball in his hands it was a first down and then some. Now just keeping the ball in his hands is the only problem I saw!!!

    I’m sure he cleans that up though. And remember he missed all kinds of the offseason work last year. And hasnt missed a beat this offseason!!! I cant wait to see him run over 1300 yrds this season. Go Beanie!!!

  17. By We'll miss Q on Jul 22, 2010 | Reply

    cardattac, Beanie’s other major issue was poor blocking. He got Kurt NAILED more than once due to missing blocks and not knowing who to pick up on a blitz.

    Also, if Beanie got a 1st down every time he touched the ball, why did we ever punt?

  18. By Glenn Ryan on Jul 22, 2010 | Reply

    I think that Wisenhunt needs to be patient with developing players, which is something he has done in the past. In the NFL, it’s always necessary to be patient as you always have such an influx of players coming in. Beanie’s issue was definitely poor blocking but that’s something that can be remedied. Give him time. He’s still a good pick.


  19. By Logan Cooper on Jul 22, 2010 | Reply

    It has been awhile for me, full time summer school in college takes all my time, BUT I’M BACK!
    I emailed deuce about a month ago telling him he was making a big mistake holding out.
    I offered him my construction job for a straight across trade for his. He said he would love to.
    I just don’t think deuce has the fire inside anymore, if he ever had it in the first place. There is no denying when on the field he has it, but right when he steps off the sideline it’s questionable.

    I think the middle linebacker spot will pay itself out and if not, someone will step up, make themselves known and prove they can play.

  20. By Voice of Reason on Jul 22, 2010 | Reply

    Lutui isn’t going to start this year anyway. Faneca and Wells are the starting guards.

    Harris is clearly over his head here. Does he honestly think his 396 lb client, who will be a backup guard this year if he makes the team, will get a long term deal from any other team next offseason? Backup guards are rarely in heavy demand during free agency.

    Bottom line — this was simply a defensive agent who has to explain to his client why he advised him to stay away (which, incidentally, was horrible advice).

    I’d actually take them up on the trade idea. I’ll bet Harris thinks his 400 lb backup guard client would fetch a second round pick…

  21. By Voice of Reason on Jul 22, 2010 | Reply

    And on Beanie, I’m kind of glad people are re-hashing the “soft” label. Kind of pisses him off, and I like the way he runs when he’s in that mindset.

    But for the record — the guy isn’t soft. He missed, what, three college games and no games last year? Tell those linebackers he ran over last year that he’s soft.

  22. By cardattac on Jul 22, 2010 | Reply

    We’ll miss Q….

    Probably because beanie didn’t get to touch the ball on every play. LOL And I would expect A rookie to have some things to clean up. But I love the kid. Last year he was way unprepared do to missed offseason time with the team and still had a good impact. He will become a very rood back in this league.

    As for bein soft….. I dare Jason Cole to go stand in front of Beanie when he has the ball and is runnin down field right in his face!!! Try and stop him!!! LOL The guy is a 22 year old beast. And the youngest on our team. First round pick. I dont see how any one can talk trash on the guy.

  23. By johnnybluenose on Jul 22, 2010 | Reply

    deuce the caboose…bringing up the rear. i don’t see him being any help to us this year or any other year. too bad.

  24. By cheesebeef on Jul 25, 2010 | Reply

    Darren – it’s not a matter of who to take in the draft. That position should have been addressed better in FA. From all reports we took our nice sweet time in dealing with Foote and then low-balled him to boot. Saying “well, what’s out there now?” as a defense is a straw man argument. It shouldn’t have gotten to that point, especially when the only FA LBer we did sign was common street trash in NFL terms.

    Don’t get me wrong, I LOVE a lot of the moves we made this off-season (Kerry Rhodes trade, Q trade, most of the draft, upgrading the O-Line). I just REALLY thought we took an awful approach to the ILB position. Any team has to be strong up the middle, but a 3-4 D REALLY has to have depth (or at least starters – which Paris Lenon is not) if you’re going to be successful.

  25. By darrenurban on Jul 25, 2010 | Reply

    Cheese —

    I understand your point. But my understanding is that Foote had injury issues the Cards weren’t completely sure he’d hold up. I don’t even think Foote is starting in Pitt. I won’t argue that they could have chased more depth, but with Foote, I’m not even sure they offered him.

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