Niners aftermath

Posted by Darren Urban on November 20, 2011 – 11:41 pm

The locker room was emptying quickly, but Darnell Dockett was still smudged with eye black and in his football pants, talking to wave after wave of media questions. No one – at least publicly – has more bile for the 49ers. But after the way the Niners controlled Sunday’s game, even Dockett relented.

“It’s hard for me to sit here and not admit they are a good team,” Dockett said. “There is a reason they are 9-1.  I usually don’t give credit to no one, especially in the division.”

When you cover a singular team, you always evaluate through the prism of that team. Sometimes, what the other team is doing gets lost a little bit, and as Dockett said, there is a reason the Niners have won so many games and are going to win the NFC West.

Of course, my prism – the prism of this blog – is about the Cardinals. So, in the wake of the 23-7 loss:

— There isn’t a good reason to go on too long about the play of quarterback John Skelton. Obviously, he didn’t play well. He said that plainly on Twitter just a little while ago – “I cost my team a win with my poor play today. We’ll bounce back and so will the #birdgang” – and the part that hurt Sunday wasn’t that he had an off game, because that happens. But it can’t be that off. It can’t be two first downs in the first half, or 23 total yards on the first six possessions of the game.

I don’t know right now if Kevin Kolb is going to be ready this week. Coach Ken Whisenhunt emphasized he didn’t want to evaluate Skelton just on what happen at Candlestick. But if there was any doubt that Kolb will be going back into the lineup, those should have been put to rest Sunday.

— Defensively, while the Cards’ numbers aren’t going to be great, the unit showed. Defensive end Calais Campbell said he thought the defense could have played better, and he’s right. For instance, with the score 9-0, the Cards can’t allow a seven-plus-minute drive to start the third quarter. But the 49ers had the ball for more than 44 minutes (simply mind-boggling) because the Cards’ offense couldn’t hold on to the ball.

“They were on the field forever,” Whisenhunt said. “That they were able to stay out there against a power team like they are and they try to wear you down … The effort they gave, it’s pretty important.”

— I thought Dan Williams was having a pretty good game Sunday. He was in on a handful of plays, including some he had to chase down. Terrible that he broke his arm. David Carter, you’re up.

— Beanie Wells was running hard on the few chances he did get. He had 33 yards on eight carries. Whiz was asked about running more to protect Skelton. He acknowledged he could have, but also said there were plays to be made that weren’t. I’ve said this before, but – while some plays might have been called better – I still don’t think playcalling is one of the major issues.

— Here was one piece of good news: running back Chester Taylor made a 34-yard run in the fourth quarter, the longest run against the stingy 49ers defense all season.

— On the play where Patrick Peterson fumbled the punt, what I couldn’t figure out is how Hamza Abdullah didn’t block the punt. Abdullah broke clean in on Andy Lee yet missed it. Abdullah admitted he can’t believe he missed it either – he said he actually got in too fast, basically passing the ball.

— Peterson had some issues at cornerback. He got a pass interference and he gave up a few early catches. But he didn’t lose confidence. “I felt like I was in good position,” he said. “I felt like I didn’t take a step back but there is room for improvement.”

I guess the story this week will be the quarterback. If Kolb can’t go, Skelton will start against the Rams. And we’ll see if the position – no matter who is in there – can find a way to have a consistent performance.

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90 Responses to “Niners aftermath”

  1. By tom on Nov 21, 2011 | Reply

    this was literally the worst display of qb play ive ever seen by skelton. the ONE game i wanted the cards to win or at least be competitive in they just bomb. so frustrating. god i hate this team sometimes!

  2. By Brad on Nov 21, 2011 | Reply

    Tough game…It would be nice to see Bartel get his 1st NFL start..since the season is lost…but I understand that Skelton and Kolb are the future…and the more reps the better…but man would it be nice to see ol’ Bartel get a crack at it..

  3. By Urbanweraturban on Nov 21, 2011 | Reply

    Excuse me, but this team was not ready to play the 49er’s. Poor coaching and play calling lead to yet another defeat. No balance on offense and no o line protection. Yes Skelton had a bad game, but he is like Kurt. A few good games and then a stinker. Where is Grimm and what is he doing to help the team? Whiz has suffered from poor line play his entire tenure with the team. Neither Whiz or Grimm has done anything to fix this. If they do not see this, we will always lose.

  4. By Sarah on Nov 21, 2011 | Reply

    Man oh man i was pushing for Skelton but it seems he never got on the bus today, dismal would be an understatement. Growing pains it will be but he has to make throws end of story, bad reads etc take time but basic accuracy please ! Not going to throw him under the bus yet but he has to develop consistency, SF did not play that well today ! If we had an offense today we would have won, Skelton has the tools but he needs to hone them, all his wins have been highly supported by the defense. Not impressed today and basic throws that most QB’s could make in any league went astray.

  5. By Nick Pepe on Nov 21, 2011 | Reply

    Back to the Monday noting blues…. I was impressed by the D. They have to be a little tired this morning, they got one helluva workout yesterday. Sorry to see big Dan go down.

    Work hard and prosper.

    Nick Pepe
    Lifetime Member

  6. By Christo on Nov 21, 2011 | Reply

    Awesome here we are 1 year later and we still have nothing but QB problems !! Tom Brady would have problems behind this line.

    Darren any chance you (Or anyone) could ask Whis about the OL? It’s pretty well regarded as the WORST in the league. As it was last year. Yet all we could do was bring in one FA? Is Grimm to be Whis’ fall guy for this year?

    This is just sad. We are 8 and 19 in our last 27.

  7. By reap37 on Nov 21, 2011 | Reply

    Well, a few questions got answered on Sunday. The 49ers are a really good football team with a highly motivated coaching staff and John boy is not ready for prime time. Sometimes I think we have the same problem at QB that we had last year. I still like the players on this team as they have NO quit in them even though they were terribly outplayed on Sunday. Losing Dan W is not good but we’ll have a chance to see Carter who I think is very good. Time to begin evaluations for next year’s needs. Would have liked to see this team play with its full complement of players. Maybe next year.

  8. By cardsalltheway on Nov 21, 2011 | Reply

    John Skelton looked scared. I guess he finally realized where he is/what he’s doing etc…But I didn’t watch much of the game, it was too embarrassing. Why is it AZ Card QB’s look so bad? Why are QB’s from other teams able to look much better than ours? We have a problem, some heads gotta roll…SOON!

  9. By cardsalltheway on Nov 21, 2011 | Reply

    Start Richard Bartel next week.

  10. By noah on Nov 21, 2011 | Reply

    I liked the game plan of coming out and trying to hit Patrick Willis in the chest with a football really hard. It’s just too bad he caught it…

  11. By wnycardfan on Nov 21, 2011 | Reply

    Kudo’s to DEF, they got burned a few times, but 44 min of play time, you’re gonna get screwed eventually.
    Kudo’s to Dockett for being honest, even against someone he can’t stand.
    Offense was horrible. Skelton did play like crap, but its not all his fault. Don’t we have 10 other guys on the team? Don’t we have a few offensive coaches to game plan? Come on, it looked like slow motion. I didn’t expect to win, but I didn’t expect to suck so bad either.
    I’ve said all along, Kolb has to play to see if he’s the real deal. I think Skelton is still decent and could develop, even after this game. I’m worried Kolb is no better or worse. Wondering if it had been Kolb in there who threw 3 INT’s would he have gotten pulled too? Cards seem not to be able to figure out the QB position at all.
    Sorry for Dan W’s arm, like others have mentioned he was looking better, hope he doesn’t go too far off the “wagon” and get out of shape again.
    What is the most frustrating to me, and I’ve said it before, is they don’t seem to improve year over year. Yes, DEF is looking better, but HOPE to be better next year (or next game) is almost never there for a card fan, it seems like they can NEVER get a string together of wins, of progress, of hope. You’ve got examples all over the NFL of players playing, even in losses, but we seem to be so erratic, it just makes for frustration big time. The 2 win streak was fun while it lasted, thats for sure, but I think that was just coming up for air, I’m stealing myself for another 6 game losing streak, starting this week.

  12. By clssylssy on Nov 21, 2011 | Reply

    I don’t blame John Skelton for yesterday’s loss but I’m sure everyone else will. Kevin Kolb wouldn’t have done any better; Rich Bartel did better because he is older and really didn’t have the pressure. Losing to a team that you have respect for like the Steelers or the Ravens is one thing but a loss to the 9ers is especially painful because they are who you know them to be. Important thing is to learn from this experience and crush them when they come to our house! They still have the Ravens and Steelers in the next few weeks so I will be cheering loudly for my other bird team, as well as, the Steelers in addition to my Cards who just need to move on and win! Funny how all the haters are back on the Kolb train after Skelton has a bad game…Kolb wouldn’t have done any better! . Once again, it was Larry Fitzgerald who was able to keep a level head yesterday and help the younger guys from getting caught up in the goading by 9er players that was resulting in us giving up a lot of yards in penalties. Darren, I think you are wrong about fans wanting to hear from the QB. That may be true for other teams but with the Cards fans IN FITZ WE TRUST. People who don’t even like the Cards respect Fitz and he is always able to present a positive image of the Cards without trash talking or devaluing any of his colleagues.

  13. By bob-O on Nov 21, 2011 | Reply

    Nice one

  14. By rio on Nov 21, 2011 | Reply


  15. By SuperBird on Nov 21, 2011 | Reply

    Great game yesterday by the defense. And also very glad to see what Skelton really is, not ready. ‘He is who I thought he was’. If you were watching closely, he tried to force those passes into tight coverage against a better defense and it will not work at this level. If Kolb were playing he would have found a way to get more than 23 yards of offense in the first half. Bartel did do better, not because he is older, but because he knows not to force throws like that and understands how to play football as a team and not just throw balls up to fitz. The commentators even said during the game that all Skelton would do is stare down Fitz. The INTs showed that. Welcome back to your well deserved starting position. When he gets back, and the D is playign the way they are, we will start seeing more wins. This season is done, but with our young D, they will come back as one of the best next year and for that I am excited.

  16. By JR on Nov 21, 2011 | Reply

    I’ve been a season ticket holder for a long time, and this was the worst display of offense since the Cards came to Phx. I was wrong about Skelton. Bartel needs to start in St. Louis if Kolb is not 100%. He was the best QB in training camp. We can’t have another game like yesterday.

  17. By Bill L on Nov 21, 2011 | Reply

    I failed to notice an appropriate level of…..SNAP……and, CRISPINESS….of course, it could be my untrained eye………what does WHIZ say? For 8 million in the owner’s pocket……and maybe $50.00 for WHIZ, as a bonus for Blowing that Smoke, this franchise has suffered and will continue to suffer for years to come……….Well, the Bidwills are RICHER and WHIZ still has a job…..and the gullible still buy tickets. Keep feeding the Bidwills’ wallets and keep the arbitrator sof SNAP and CRISPINESS coaching.

  18. By joe67 on Nov 21, 2011 | Reply

    Ten weeks into the season, with one of the worst lines in the league, and we CAN’T DEVELOPE A FREAKIN’ SCREEN PASS. Seems like with such a bad line it would be made to order for that play, since the D is pooring thru anyway. In 40 some odd years of following them, and having some bad offensive teams, this is probably the most frustrating of all.
    You cannot establish a running game by running on first down and passing on second and third. Wells was running pretty well in the chances he got.

  19. By bob-O on Nov 21, 2011 | Reply

    cards might not be playing for the division this year , but THEY MUST PLAY TO MAKE A STATEMENT. yeah we lost but the defense made a statement sunday, just got worn down due to lack of offense

  20. By TucsonTim on Nov 21, 2011 | Reply

    After blocking 2! FG’s I thought the O might get inspired. 44 minutes. How did we keep the score that close?

  21. By CJ on Nov 21, 2011 | Reply

    Now I’m waiting for the “START BARTEL” rants. But ya, Skelton did horrible. I still think he’s got a good future ahead of him but we do need to stick with Kolb for the immediate future. I just hope Kolb learned a little from Skelton’s performances that he needs to stay in the pocket and trust his OLine a bit more.

  22. By The realist on Nov 21, 2011 | Reply

    One thing stood out pretty clear and it was once by me predictable…

    We all know how sports works worldwide sometimes, it’s all on money and monetary interests (…) I know there would be a game – soon enough – where Skelton would play awfully and shut up Kolb critics, the investment made by cads was too high to put skelton on the board, that’s for sure..

    Skelton is still a better man to the field than Kolb, but cards fan, keep suffering and suffer even more when you see Skelton winning in other team!

  23. By joe67 on Nov 21, 2011 | Reply

    Not even close to a sack til late in the game.
    Not even close to a pik til late in the game. And it was by a line backer.
    Where were our Quick and fast L-B’s. They didn’t show up.
    Peterson missed TWO tackles on ONE PLAY, had maybe his worst game, IMO, and says he has room for improvement. Glad he recognizes that, at least.
    I like JS but OMG. Maybe this was good for him, as a young developing QB, you just never know what effect a game like this can have.
    Well like I have said for years, “wait til next year”!!
    God I hate being so negative. Just really frustrated I guess.

  24. By Louisville Card on Nov 21, 2011 | Reply

    I can’t believe they lost the way they did. now we have to listen to people wanting the third string qb to start which means we’re screwed….Skelton is obviously not the answer and he’s definitely not Warner as someone foolishly compared him too. Kolb may not have won a lot of games so far but he’s never looked as bad as Skelton did this week.

    Quick question Darren is this beanie’s final year of his contract and if so is there any chance they let him go and go after Michael Bush? Bush is in his last year of his contract and plays similar to beanie’s style but doesn’t get hurt as much, fumble, and actually produces every week he starts..

  25. By Darren Urban on Nov 21, 2011 | Reply

    Louisville —

    RE: Beanie contract

    Wells’ contract runs through 2013.

  26. By clssylssy on Nov 21, 2011 | Reply

    an additional factor in the 9ers favor was the bone chilling cold, damp, slippery conditions our players are unaccustomed to, that I feared would be a factor in Philly.Our critical fans need to check out some of the other QBs around the league who are no better than who we have. The difference is the players around them allow them to get by with a lot. Flacco is very inconsistent, throws some of the worse passes that get glossed over by Q and the Ravens defense. Just saying…things aren’t as bad as they appear without tunnel vision. KEEP SUPPORTING OUR TEAM! GO CARDS! FLY HIGH (but take your electric socks for St.Louis cause it can be REALLY cold there!)

  27. By SteveDCO on Nov 21, 2011 | Reply

    The defense showed up big and it exciting to see this team continue to grow and figure out Horton’s system.

    The O line has it’s 2nd good game. The question I am left with is the QB making the line better. Skelton is much better at stepping up in the pocket and away from pressure. The silver lining of Kolb’s injury is him being able to see Skelton stay in the pocket and make the throws and step out only when the pocket is gone.

    If Kolb can hang in the pocket better and avoid the hits he can be the QB we hoped he would be.

  28. By MIKE G on Nov 21, 2011 | Reply

    Hey Darren–Rough game for the Card’s yesterday. The time of possesion was the key in this game. Niners had long drives and the Card’s had turnovers and 3 and outs. I thought Skelton would struggle against their defense–they are a top 5 unit in football. I thought the D played hard and hung in there but the turnovers just killed us. Felt bad for Dan Williams with the arm injury. Niners are just playing old school football–running game and good defense. Hopefully we can beat the Rams next week and take 2 of 3 on the road–that would be a nice road trip if we can do it. Darren–Do you think that was a bad call when Washington sacked Smith and the ball went out on bounds around the 25???
    Incomplete or Fumble??? Not that it would of changed the result of the game of course!!

  29. By Darren Urban on Nov 21, 2011 | Reply

    Mike G —

    RE: Smith backward throw

    The rule is that, if the passer is hit trying to throw, even if the ball goes backward, it is considered a forward pass and therefore incomplete.

  30. By CreditCard on Nov 21, 2011 | Reply

    Basics are being missed by the QBs. Kolb cannot step into the pocket, and he stares down his receivers. Skelton steps into the pocket, he also stares down his receivers. Neither reads their progressions. This poor QB basics are two fold. First, poor OL play, and not ample time to properly release the ball. The second has to be poor QB coaching. Warner got away with it, due to his incredible quickness to read a defense, and hs uncanny ability to look off a defender. The coaching staff needs to change their philosphy knowing they have a differnt level and type of QB. Until then, the Cards QBs will continue to struggle. Denver changed their offense to match Tebow’s abilities, as did the rest of the NFL with new QB changes. So far, I have not seen this from the Cardinals. This is a major coaching mistake. Someone in the organization is not being held accountable.

  31. By SteveDCO on Nov 21, 2011 | Reply

    Urbanweraturban –

    How was the line play bad? Skelton had all day to make his bad throws. This was against one of the top defenses in the NFL.

    Bad play calling? How many offensive plays did we run today? Hard to judge anything with that few plasys.

    This game was about awful QB play, nothing else. You can’t make that many poor throws and expect anything to happen.

    The only issue I had the entire game was Acho trying to cover a receiver. Washington is probably the only LB we have who is fast enough to make those plays.

  32. By CreditCard on Nov 21, 2011 | Reply

    One other thought. If this were my organization, I would be listending and responding to the various posts by the fans. Granted some of them are meaningless and written in an emotopnal state of mind. I think management (no offense to you Mr. Darrent Urban) needs to respond back to the fan base as to their actions in correcting the team’s problems. That way, as a fan i would at least know you are listening and concerned. Otherwise, it really gives the impression the organization is merely riding the coattails of league profitability.

    Does some member of management have the courage to repsond back to this post?

  33. By David C. on Nov 21, 2011 | Reply

    I don’t know about you guys, but the play calling/game plan did Skelton no favors yesterday. I’m beyond fed up with the coaching. As a loyal season ticket holder, I’m close to saying “Screw this!” and spending my money on something that won’t leave me depressed on Mondays.

    David C.

  34. By Kevin on Nov 21, 2011 | Reply

    Cardsalltheway —

    Are we supposed to take you seriously? Last week, in our conversation about Skelton vs. Kolb, you posted these exact words in your argument about why Skelton should start over Kolb.

    “Actually, I think there was some “nuttiness” or irrational sense of desperation in the Kolb deal.”

    Now Skelton has one bad game, and we should start Bartel? Who exactly has the irrational sense of desperation here?

    Do you think an NFL team can be successful rotating QB’s in like they are relief pitchers? (Rhetorical question, please don’t bother answering.)

  35. By cardsalltheway on Nov 21, 2011 | Reply

    Correction: It’s not that Skelton looked scared, he just didn’t look confident. But, Ken W. has never been one to give confidence in most anyone has he?
    I just watched the replay of the 1st half.
    I would’ve pulled Skelton out of the game with 7 minutes remaining following his 2/9 = 12 yard start with one interception with the idea that all QB’s are on a fair competition mode. Oops, I forgot Kolb was able to opt out of that. There goes that old coaching(fairness) philosophy.
    Brian Billick said we need to help Skelton by running the ball, but of course we know how little Ken W. likes to do that now don’t we? We passed the ball more than 2/3 more often than we ran it ~ 35 passes to 11 rushes.
    Our 1st, first down came at 8 minutes remaining in the 2nd quarter on an excellent screen pass to Mauia. Now why didn’t we see another play like that, maybe on the other side? If not that, then why not more feeds to Mauia? He looked tough and ready to play. Doesn’t Ken W. see things like that? I know Mauia wasn’t drafted high enough or doesn’t have moxy / isn’t from Mesa, AZ etc…but why can’t Ken W. put some confidence in our offensive players by having a descent game plan ~ cough, cough, RUN the BALL.
    Later Billick said the 49ers didn’t look “sharp” with about 5 minutes remaining in the 1st half. Then the 9ers easily went down to score another field goal. The 49ers tripled our 1st half time of possession. I guess we were duller than dull can get then aye?
    We had 28 total yards with less than 1 minute to go in the first half but were able to gain about 20 more due to the 49ers prevent defense which probably gave us less than 50 yards total first half yards. Gore had more rushes than all our RB’s and more yards gained than our entire team in the 1st half. I’m not sure I want to watch the replay of the 2nd half.

  36. By Kevin on Nov 21, 2011 | Reply

    ClssyIssy — so we give Skelton the credit when the team wins in his starts, even though he played average at best in each of them and those games were actually won more by our defense, but we don’t assign him the blame when the team loses, even though he was absolutely awful? This is the problem when people get blinders on about a particular player (good or bad). For the Skelton lovers, everything Skelton does is magical, because he’s the 5th round guy from Fordham that people like to root for. Everything Kolb does is seen through the prism of his big contract, so when the team isn’t successful with him, it’s all his fault.

    Look, I don’t assign all the blame to Skelton either. I don’t think we win this game with Kolb, but the truth is we have no idea what would’ve happened. However, to say Kolb wouldn’t have done any better is pretty ridiculous. ANYONE would likely have done better — and I would include Kolb, DA, Matt Leinart, or just about any starting or backup NFL QB in that sentence, and possibly some Arena League or CFL QB’s. That doesn’t mean Skelton is suddenly chopped liver, but don’t try to defend him by saying Kolb wouldn’t have done better. That’s a disservice to Kolb, and even to Skelton himself. It’s like saying that no matter who we would’ve thrown out there, they were doomed to go 6-for-19 with 3 INT’s. Whatever you may think about Kolb vs. Skelton, you have to acknowledge yesterday’s game for what it is — an absolutely horrible game by Skelton. Then move on.

  37. By cardsalltheway on Nov 21, 2011 | Reply

    “Do you think an NFL team can be successful rotating QB’s in like they are relief pitchers?”
    Given the state of the Cardinals, I wouldn’t count out anything. But, that’s on the premonition of fair competition which doesn’t exist on the Cardinal team. So, you kind of see where we are being led aye? Rhetorical question: a worse team record than last year.
    PLEASE give us Richard Bartel for next week. Why? Because has has looked as good as Kolb or Skelton. Whoever performs the best plays, find the guy with the hottest hand until the cold hits. 2/9 = 12 yards with one interception ain’t gonna cut it, but I wouldn’t have dealt Skelton the hand Ken W. has.

  38. By Kevin on Nov 21, 2011 | Reply

    Cardsalltheway, you make me laugh. So now, not only do you advocate starting Bartel, but you would’ve pulled Skelton after a 2-for-9 start midway though the 2nd quarter???? The guy who just led us to two wins, and therefore you were saying should start over Kolb, and we abandon him after 1 1/2 quarters of poor play? This isn’t the exhibition season; we don’t just trot guys in and out to see what they can do.

  39. By Peter in Canada on Nov 21, 2011 | Reply

    We have to have the most schizophrenic fans in the league. Going into the game against the 8-1 niners, who are full value for their record, I was hopeful rather than overly optimistic. I too was disappointed in Skelton’s performance but that’s what you get when a raw rookie plays an 8-1 team. Calls for Bartel, a career journeyman at best, are stupid. The injury to Williams was disappointing. A broken arm should not impact his career, however and hopefully he is professional enough to stay in shape for next season.
    The defence did very well considering the amount of time spent on the field.
    I think this game was an excellent blueprint for the future. They can see who was competitive and who was not against an elite team and draft and spend accordingly. Nobody expected the niners to be 8-1 under Smith but the pieces were there. We are not as bad as the doomsayers tell us and not as good as last week’s cheerleaders were saying. There is no need to panic IMO.

  40. By Jesse Robles on Nov 21, 2011 | Reply

    Ray Horton is making me happy with the play from our Defense!! Our Defense played their butts off, and that is the only side of the ball that has made progress.

    Ken, yes John Skelton did play like a Rookie on Sunday, but you have been coaching like a rookie all season, and get out coached almost every week, don’t forget that. Put yourself on BLAST SOMETIME!!

  41. By steve on Nov 21, 2011 | Reply

    cant believe people are still sticking up for him after that embarassing loss. kick him to the curb and draft a good qb

  42. By pipapiko on Nov 21, 2011 | Reply

    Go 49ers!

  43. By wheres 9-0? on Nov 21, 2011 | Reply

    why was there a 9er holding doucet back during that fight and not one card coming to his defense?

  44. By Eric Y on Nov 21, 2011 | Reply

    Oh no! We suck again!

  45. By Canadian Red Bird on Nov 21, 2011 | Reply

    I would have liked to see Bartel play longer; he has showed some promise during his few stints this year. In my opinion he was the most consistent of all the quarterbacks in the pre season and played well during the 4th qurter yesterday.

    I’m having difficulty showing any love for our dear old Russ Grimm. The game has passed him by; for him to be throwing over the shoulder tosses to Fitz is just another instance of drawing the ire of the Cardinal fan. He should be focusing on his part; given the fact that the offensive line has been one of our achilles’ heal for quite some time. I keep reminding Cardinal fans that just because your a hall of fame player doesn’t make you a good coach.(Wayne Gretzsky with the Coyotes )

    Graves has got to go!!!! No more paying king’s ransoms for players that haven’t proven anything in the league. Very, very, very sad losing our second round pick for next season.

    I thought the defence played with some intensity yesterday. Would have been nice to have Peterson play tighter coverage plus 5’&” defensive halfbacks are going to continue to get picked on in this league of big , fast receivers. I miss Toler and DRC.

  46. By Mario on Nov 21, 2011 | Reply

    Skelton had a bad game…Kolb is having a bad career. No matter how you chalk it up…there aren’t many good options to look at for this team.

  47. By brad oneill on Nov 21, 2011 | Reply

    that game was looking like a huge win for the defense right up until the start of the the 3rd quarter. our defense played a masterful first half it was so disheartening to see them completely crumble the 3rd quarter. I understand they had to be exhausted but come on that was there worst performance of the year.

    Patrick Peterson absolutely took a step back, he was out of position and outplayed all day. he needs to keep his hands off the damn receivers. he is a liability who would have really benefited from a year behind Toler, obviously he has tremendous talent and I think he will develop into a premier corner in this league and I look forward to cheering him on for many years but right now he just isn’t worthy of much applause as a defender.

    If dan williams approaches his rehab like he did this offseason we will never see him play a down in the nfl again. I wish him luck but Carter is going to take this opportunity to become the undisputed starter going into camp next year.

    they ran the ball great against a very good run defense. i realize they couldnt commit to the run being so far behind and not really getting any opportunities but if I was coaching it would have been run all 4 downs starting in the 3rd quarter.

  48. By Kurt on Nov 21, 2011 | Reply


    Was it my imagination or did we see Russ Grimm working with Fitz tossing balls over his shoulder during the game? Didn’t he have something better to do, like work with the offensive line?

    It might be time for a few rosster and coaching moves to shake this team up. Oh well just the frustration talking…

  49. By Darren Urban on Nov 21, 2011 | Reply

    Kurt —

    RE: Grimm/Fitz

    I am pretty sure that was video shot pre-game.

  50. By AZ Fan in WA on Nov 21, 2011 | Reply

    Nate Adams looked like he played better than I’ve seen him play lately. He looked like a mini-safety at times and Johnson looked like a slow safety. That guy is always late to the party. Abdulah looks fast in special teams play. Any chance he gets more snaps through the rest of the season??
    49ers have had our number the last two years by being faster and stronger than us. Pure physical domination. Yesterday, they looked smarter than us… ouch. Harbough was disguising plays with lots of shifts and motions to get mismatches all over the field.
    Our interior was not able to stop the run enough to end the long possessions. I know Carter has impressed given his draft # and Williams performance has been inconsistent (especially given his), but aren’t we now worse against the run in your opinion Darren?

  51. By Darren Urban on Nov 21, 2011 | Reply

    Az Fan —

    RE: Run defense

    Only allowed 3.3 yards a carry yesterday. Seems pretty good to me.

  52. By Voice of Reason on Nov 21, 2011 | Reply

    That was an awful display yesterday. The Cards played scared — and it makes me wonder whether they are the softest team in the league.

    Don’t get me wrong — I’ve seen them play tough before. Push people around. Play to the end of the whistle. Think the Steelers game in 2007. The Cowboys in 2008. The Giants in 2009.

    Look at the Steelers – the one thing, regardless of their talent level — that they will do every game without question is punch first. Lay the lumber early to put the opposition on their heels. San Fran is doing that now. And the tough teams beat them to the punch. They fight. They prove in their play that they won’t take that crap, and will dish it twice as bad as they will take it.

    The soft teams lay back and let it happen. There is no fight (and I’m not talking about our smallest WR slapping a safety in the helmet). Stew Bradley laid a couple of people out. But that was it. No fire. No fight. No nothing.

    It was soft. And it was a joke. I expect more from my team.

  53. By Voice of Reason on Nov 21, 2011 | Reply

    To “Wheres 9-0?” — EXACTLY

  54. By Voice of Reason on Nov 21, 2011 | Reply

    Peter in Canada obviously didn’t watch the game when he said: “I too was disappointed in Skelton’s performance but that’s what you get when a raw rookie plays an 8-1 team.”

    That’s a cop out. All three Skelton interceptions were AWFUL throws. Not merely bad. AWFUL. I could have made those plays. And on defense, before we anoit them, let’s remember that Kyle Williams — an undrafted rookie WR — was burning us. The score would have been much worse had Braylon Edwards not left his hands at home.

    Fact: We were dominated by a team whose talent base isn’t a whole lot different than us. They played tough and pushed us around. We didn’t meet, much less exceeed, that level of toughness. Hell, we didn’t even defend ourselves.

  55. By Austin on Nov 21, 2011 | Reply

    wheres 9-0-
    if you watch the video Fitz came in and was holding the 9er back while one of the 9ers was holding doucet. They were both just trying to de-escalate the situation.

  56. By Louisville Card on Nov 21, 2011 | Reply

    I can’t believe the posts on here or I guess I can, but cardsalltheway really? We didn’t run the ball enough I don’t know if you were watching the game I was but if you only get 2 yards/rush only and idiot would keep doing that. Then you say put in barrel he’s played better than Kolb? Kolb has actually put us in contention to win all but one of the games he’s started and if the defense was playing like they are now we’d be 7-3.

    We have what we have this year the lack of a #2 receiver seems to be a bigger problem then I thought it would be and hopefully our first pick will rectify that for next season.

  57. By Travis McCollum on Nov 21, 2011 | Reply

    Skelton sure had a hard day out there but I don’t think any of the QB would have had a good game. I still have no problem with him starting for the team.

  58. By wnycardfan on Nov 21, 2011 | Reply

    time for another chime in from me.
    I admit that I don’t know much about NFL coaching (or playing for that matter), perhaps just a good arm chair QB. But I do tend to agree with a few on here that make sense just from observations. Coaching over the last couple years DOES seem poor. Its fits and starts, but consistent. If I can guess the next TYPE of play given its the Cards, then that’s an issue in my book. Where are the screens? Get our RB’s out into open field, take pressure off Oline and WR’s. You can’t start Bartell, you MUST start Kolb. Lets see how he does. i REALLY hope he is better than he has appeared so far, otherwise, the early opinions from MANY (not just here) of him being a bust will be true. Ken W rarely gets emotional or tells it like it is, but yesterday he has no problem bashing his 2nd string QB. Okay, Skelton sucked big time, but I never heard him bash those other players that have stunk it up either. I guess he’s honest, but how about a bit of honesty on the poorly coached games/players? I agree GRAVES and GRIMM have got to go. What have they done for this ORG in the last several years??? NOTHING.

  59. By Chris J on Nov 21, 2011 | Reply

    This team needs a major overhaul. The defense was so good but because of lack of offense the defense was always on the field. The offense is not suited for Kevin Kolb, so change the offense or find a new QB. Skelton fairs better because he is suited for this offense. Beanie Wells, in my opinion, is a bust. He is always hurt. And the O-line ir horrid. I would spend draft picks and free agency on building a new offense. The defense is young and will only get better. Arizona will eventually be in the same discussion as Pittsburgh and Balitmore. Now lets get this offensive situation addressed so we can take the NFC West next year.

  60. By Jesse Robles on Nov 21, 2011 | Reply

    I Hope we CLEAN HOUSE with the coaching staff after this season, kind of like the players last season. I can’t turn the other cheek anymore, Fool us once, shame on you, fool us twice, SHAME ON US!!! The Cardinals were here before WHAZ, Grimm, and Graves, the Cardinals will be here after them too, time to move on. WORDS mean nothing when you dont bring WINS, especially the SAME words over, over, and over again.

  61. By MattAZ on Nov 21, 2011 | Reply

    Never thought I’d say this but the o-line has actually looked good for the past 3 games. I think people are so used to lumping them in with the negatives you still get them being blamed, but if you watch our QBs have been getting plenty of time lately.

  62. By Soares20 on Nov 21, 2011 | Reply


    -Could you please inform me why our fans cannot seem to support a potential franchise QB (Kolb)?

    -Also could you please fill me in on why I guarantee you after this game everyone will be clamoring for Bartel and want to kick Skelton to the curb after supporting him so much, when we all should just be looking forward to Kolb getting healthy and getting reps?

  63. By Darren Urban on Nov 21, 2011 | Reply

    Soares20 —

    RE: Questions

    I would assume these are rhetorical in nature. But I certainly would not want to speak for the fans.

  64. By Christo on Nov 21, 2011 | Reply

    Until we move on from Whiz we will continue to lose.

    8 and 19 in the past 27 games folks.

  65. By jocards on Nov 21, 2011 | Reply

    I’m not going to pile TOO MUCH on John Skelton but he was absolutely horrible and Kolb is definitely a better option at this point as long as he’s healthy. Skelton has an outside shot at developing into a serviceable NFL QB but he just isn’t very good right now. Yesterday he made DA look like a pin point accurate passer, just pathetic. QB play aside it is clear that the 49ers are a MUCH better team than the Cardinals, they dominated from the opening whistle and the score could’ve been much worse. Most of us aren’t kidding ourselves that this is a good team but clearly a showing like yesterday is disappointing. There are games (Minnesota) when the team simply does not appear ready to play and yesterday was one of those games. Blame the coach, blame the players….there is plenty of blame to go around. This team stinks once again. This is the NFL, when a team is consistently bad some things need to change.

  66. By Kurt on Nov 21, 2011 | Reply


    If that was a pre-game shot which is no surprise, shame on FOX for showing it when they did and not defining what it was.

    MattAZ is right the offensive line has looked better in front of Skelton standing tall in the pocket as opposed to Kolb’s happy feet. The Skelton film should inspire and help Kevin when he returns.

    In Whiz we trust

  67. By jocards on Nov 21, 2011 | Reply

    @ Jesse Robles

    I’m not arguing with the point you’re trying to make but the one constant during this half century of losing is the Bidwill family. Fielding a winner isn’t very high on their list of priorities; if it were then I’d say they are gigantic failures. Their overriding concern is having a healthy bottom line….and as I understand it, they do. You can fire the coaches and the GM but the ownership will remain in place and that is a big part of the problem with this franchise. It isn’t merely that they don’t know how to go about fielding a winner; though they certainly do not, they don’t make it a top priority either.

  68. By CardsFan on Nov 21, 2011 | Reply

    The D was Great compared to what we have seen all season by the Cards, but the fact of the matter is A DEFENSE CAN’T PLAY DAMN NEAR 45 MINUTES & EXPECT TO WIN A GAME FOR AN OFFENSE THAT CAN’T GET ANYTHING DONE!!!!! Please “FANS” remember that the 9ers were 8-1 before we played them & are the 2nd best team in the NFL right now so thats like expecting to beat the packers, but we all know that answer lol.


    I just LOVE how all the FANS have ALL the ANSWERS LMFAO 😀


  69. By Eric Y on Nov 21, 2011 | Reply

    It’s pretty clear right now that Kolb has to start and we need to build around him for the next 2 years. He might not have the game winning drives that Skelton has had… yet, but I don’t think he’ll play as bad as Skelton did this weekend. If the O-line can gain his confidence, that could be all that this team needs to really get something going. We have to work with what we have at QB. Skelton and barrel are solid backups.

    With Toler coming back next year and Ryan Wlliams being (potentially) healthy, Horton’s defense fully installed, and a good draft (with top picks being O-line) we can get some wins going and get this team to where we want to be by 2014…. The Superbowl at home. Hey, a guy can dream.

  70. By Todd on Nov 21, 2011 | Reply

    What are the Cardinals’ options with respect to Kolb’s contract at the end of the year and what is the deadline for making a decision?

  71. By Darren Urban on Nov 21, 2011 | Reply

    Todd —

    RE: Kolb contract

    He has a roster bonus in March. But I would be very very very surprised if he was let go.

  72. By AZ Fan in WA on Nov 21, 2011 | Reply

    Hey Darren, you didn’t understand my question. I think I was all over the place with my post. Doesn’t matter, but… I meant worse run D going forward with Carter vs Williams. You’ve said some good things about him but at his size I wonder if he can be a run plug like Williams can be. And that avg/carry is impressive, especially against San Fran. Wasn’t aware that we were that effective. Our Defense has definitely come around.

  73. By Darren Urban on Nov 21, 2011 | Reply

    Az fan in WA —

    RE: Run defense without Williams

    That’s a fair question. I am not sure what it will mean. Carter has played pretty well all things considered. But let’s face it, there is a reason Williams starts and why he was a first-round pick. You are going to lose something when he’s not in there.

  74. By Kevin on Nov 21, 2011 | Reply

    Soares20 —

    Some of us were never on the Skelton bandwagon to begin with, and certainly don’t think Bartel is the answer.

    Boards like this tend to be dominated by people who either (a) think they are smarter than NFL coaches, (b) react emotionally, or (c) both. The emotional reaction to winning a couple of games — against a terrible Rams team just getting Bradford back, and a reeling Eagles team in a game really won by our defense — under Skelton after losing 6 in a row under Kolb caused people to overestimate Skelton’s contribution to those wins. All this stuff about how he has better presence, temperament, etc., and, based on a couple decent 4th quarters, people are making him out to be Tom Brady Jr., instead of realizing the sample size is too small to make any real judgments about him, and that if any judgment can be made, it’s that the offense has actually been rather stagnant for most of his 7 starts. He’s just had the good fortune to play in a few games where the D came up big, and where he played pretty well at a crucial point. One can just as easily say that if he played decently the rest of the game in the wins he’s had, we wouldn’t have even needed a 4th quarter drive to win it.

  75. By in fitz we trust on Nov 21, 2011 | Reply

    kolb vs skelton? im now in favor of just letting kolb start the rest of the season win or loose, id like too see kolb the rest of the way especially with the investment. skelton started the last 4 games of the 2010 year, and of course the 3 starts this season, and i think weve seen enough to make a good assumption of who the better qb is here in az. I think the “wins” overshadow the acctual qb performance. and the losses are always blamed on the qb. even in some of the games we lost early in the year ( like washington ), kolb has had good #s. im intrigued too see kolb play with are newly revamped d… im excited about our defense, i had a dream the other night that von miller slid to #5 an we took him over pp ( could u imagine von miller and daryl washington, that would have been awesome )and i think david carter is better than dan williams. but thats just me. i never got a response from u darren regarding calais campell, do u know the difference between just trying to resign him, or using the franchise tag on him… pros and cons??? thanks for putting up with some of our emotion driven comments. thanks for your service.

  76. By Darren Urban on Nov 21, 2011 | Reply

    In Fitz —

    RE: Campbell re-signing

    Always better, if you want the guy long-term, to get the contract done and not mess with the tag.

  77. By in fitz we trust on Nov 21, 2011 | Reply

    so franchise tag would just keep him for 1 year, and we would have to pay top league salary for his postition rather than having him on contract multiple years??? did i get that right?? thanks again for the quick response and clarification , also aside to this “game” of football… just wanna say happy thanksgiving to you and your family

  78. By AL on Nov 21, 2011 | Reply

    Kevin is the only guy on here that makes sense!

    People who want Bartel to start because Skelton stunk have obviously forgotten when he subbed in earlier in the season and stunk it up much like skelton. You think that just because he thew a TD pass on sunday he’s suddenly the best option at QB. Skelton should start if Kolb isnt ready and Bartel can relieve him him again if things dont look good.

    Seriously some of you need to think before you write.

  79. By Scott H on Nov 21, 2011 | Reply

    Lots of good thoughts and observations but it all comes down to this – we just got flat out beat by a team who is on a whole different level than the Cardinals right now. They beat us in every way possible.

    I would like to point out that the 49ers are doing what they’re doing with a new head coach and coaching staff. So, let that stand as an on-going response to the people who are constantly pleading the case that we have a new QB and a lot of new players and a new def coordinator, etc, etc, etc. Obviously, it is possible to under-go changes and get better because other teams are doing it. EVERY TEAM went through changes during a short and chaotic off-season. It didn’t effect the Cardinals more because their situation is somehow unique. The Cardinals have just done a lousy job with personnel moves over a two year period and they just aren’t good enough as a result.

  80. By clssylssy on Nov 21, 2011 | Reply

    Kevin–whoa dude! obviously you didn’t read what I said or else put your own spin on it. Everyone knew yesterday would be a difficult game (history with San Francisco is historically an emotionally charged game for starters) and whether it’s “happy feet”, “deer in the taillights” staring down of receivers,etc. neither Kolb or Skelton were slated to have an easy go and perform flawlessly. The fact remains that Skelton has two wins to Kolbs one, with one being the Eagles,on the road, considered by the sports Gods to have the “dream team” and who came back to beat the Giants.
    I personally think we have talent in all three QBs that is undeveloped. Skelton has had more time in our system so has some advantage. Again,weather conditions did not help our guys who also let goading by the 9er players further disrupt focus…that is immaturity, what you would expect from rookies. If you check our penalties in the Eagles game against yesterday’s, it wasn’t just the QB having a bad day! Actually, it could have been a lot worse, we did better this time than last year. MOVE ON, FLY HIGH, AND BEAT THE RAM!

  81. By horned frog on Nov 21, 2011 | Reply

    Trying so hard to be objective, but I don’t believe its fair to crap on Bartel just because he went in and provided a spark on an otherwise miserable day. That said I dont think he should start if Kolb is healthy either. I will say this though, those who keep commenting that Bartel is some journeymen, as if he sucks, are crazy. He just threw his first touchdown pass yesterday in the most action of his career. If you think back to the extended preseason time he saw, he got better and better. All Im saying is I think he has as much UPSIDE as anyone else on the roster. Plus he gets the least amount of reps of anyone on the roster. He’s got more mental experience than a rookie with no mileage on his body, that seems appealing. Good prospect, worth noting. Skelton, raw…long way to go. Kolb, 20 million…doesnt matter what he does, he’s getting the opportunities. Cards D, getting better I think.

  82. By we own this divisin on Nov 21, 2011 | Reply

    if you guys think that you were gonna crack the niners…your all lame in the brain…your lucky the score wasnt 41-7 PERIOD!!!! talking all that weak *&%!!!! this team is trash and i feel sooooo sorry for fitz!!!!!!! he deserves way much better!!!!

  83. By Bartel on Nov 21, 2011 | Reply

    Painfully obvious that Kurt Warner made Whis look like a good coach.

    Time to dump the whis.

  84. By Chuck 1 on Nov 21, 2011 | Reply

    we own ……,

    And, the last time that the “9ers played in the Super Bowl?????????

  85. By cards62 on Nov 22, 2011 | Reply

    “To we own this divisin”

    This is why i hate the 49ers more than any other team. Arrogant fans without an ounce of class. 49ers earned the victory so stay on your board and enjoy the win, but you come here to rub salt in the wounds. No class

    Go Cards beat the Rams

  86. By Chuck 1 on Nov 22, 2011 | Reply

    we own…..,

    Always nice to hear from a rabid 9er fan (please wipe the foam off of your chin).

    And, when was the last time that you played in a Super Bowl?

  87. By Eazy E on Nov 22, 2011 | Reply

    Ok, that was bad! Skelton had a brutal game against the 49ers defense arguably the best defense in the league. Did you see how good Vince looked against the Giants?!?! We had a chance to get him, but we got Kolb who has won 1 game and lost 6 in a row and probably wouldn’t have done better matter of fact, he wouldn’t have. Donovan also would have been alot better with us also. Skelton was 6-19, 99 yards, 0 TDs, and 3 INTs. Some of his throws were just a wing and a prayer type throws to Larry which is ok at times, but not that much. The first pick was a bad throw to Andre but Larod was open in the flat, but obviously I can see the whole field and he got a helmet on and you don’t see everything every time . The second was just like I said a wing and a prayer to Larry overthrown. The third was also a force to Larry and a great diving interception play by Goldson. Bartel did come in and do a little something but he shouldn’t start like a lot of fans are saying, c’mon. Larry made that TD catch for Bartel honestly. We need to get Chester and Larod more carries because Beanie did do ok but he got that sore knee that is affecting him. Split the carries between the 3. Larry had our only TD on a beautiful grab in double coverage and 3 catches for 41 yards total. Andre had 3 catches for 51 yards but isn’t getting the coverage somewhat off Larry Fitz. Early had 6 catches for 50 yards. O-Line did a half decent job protecting Skelton but he didn’t get it when he needed it. Sit Keith and start Bridges Whiz for goodness sakes, he is injured and not playing well. Defense did play a valiant game. Gore didn’t go off along with the running game. D-Line suffered a BIG loss in Dan who was playing alot better overall. Calais did have a pretty good game with a early fg block and had some tackles. Daryl had a good game with a pick in the red zone and 5 tackles and always seems to have good-great games every game. Stewart had a huge hit on teddy ginn jr. and had another big hit too, so he at least did something. Patrick had a rookie game but the pass interference on Crabtree who actually no lie went to my high school when I was there, wasn’t a good call at all. Crabtree always has big games against us for some reason, he is really talented but man we can’t cover him lately. Patrick also unfortunately fumbled a punt. We had 5 turnovers and you aint winning that game! We played poorly offensively and gotta do alot better even against a defense that damn good! On to the Rams, but that was a killer and it was going to be tough on the road but still ugh! You make bad personnel moves in Kolb, then trading DRC for him, and giving away a 2nd round draft pick, what do you expect when it blows up in your face?!?! You had better options.

  88. By cardfancolorado on Nov 22, 2011 | Reply

    do not tempt a whiner fan they carry guns with them in the stadium

  89. By Scott H on Nov 22, 2011 | Reply

    Eazy E

    Vince Young? Really, dude? The same Vince Young who had thrown one pass prior to Sunday night and threw an interception when he did? The same Vince Young who was doing nothing to impress until the last drive? How many INT’s did he throw before then?

    What you should have noticed in that game was how in-explicably bad the Giants played, especially on defense. If the Giants don’t fail to show up, VY never gets a chance to win this game.

    C’mon, man…are you just upset because McNabb crapped before the season even reached the midpoint??? VY is the man now?

  90. By Eazy E on Nov 27, 2011 | Reply

    Scott H-

    How is your boy Kolb working out? He’s lost 6 games in a row, looks figgity in the pocket and hasn’t even been average. I ain’t know flip-flopper, I liked VY and Donovan for the Cards the whole time. Kolb isn’t a winner and it shows, dude is 4-10 in his career which is below average by my math. Since you want to patronize me, fair about is fair play. Did you see that 18 play game winning td drive and he converted 6 third downs on that drive, something Kolb would never do? The Redskins interception, he was thrown in cold and made a bad decision, How many has Kolb made? You can make excuse after excuse up, but they won and were still winning after those turnovers. The WR Riley Cooper slipped on the pick in the end zone, not VY’s fault? The Giants played bad because the eagles d finally played up to it’s capabilities and VY did VY, he owns the 4th quarter. Lesean burned them, Desean burned them, it was how the eagles should have played more consistently throughout the season. Also, Was it McNabb’s fault that they blew 3 big leads in their first 3 games? Defense was very bad and giving up big plays like it was Christmas. McNabb also had alot of dropped balls and NO weapons other than AD and Percy at times, I watch the games, apparently you don’t. BTW, VY been the man, he now has a record of 31-17 in his career and Kolb still is below average with his sorry 4-10 record.

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