The first lunch with Whiz

Posted by Darren Urban on July 25, 2012 – 12:25 pm

Coach Ken Whisenhunt had his first lunchtime press meeting. Not a whole lot new — the Cards haven’t even practiced yet. Everyone passed the run test (video here). Some quick notes:

— Nose tackle Dan Williams passed the run test for the first time. More on this later, but Williams said he weighed in at 314 pounds, which is a great sign.

— Whisenhunt didn’t think much of the comments by Willie McGinest when McGinest said he had talked to “buddies” on the Cards and it “seems” like they were gravitating toward Skelton. “When you get second-hand information like that, I don’t know how much stock you put into that.”

— The Cards will have their first padded practice Thursday. Today’s work will be in shells.

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19 Responses to “The first lunch with Whiz”

  1. By Scott H on Jul 25, 2012 | Reply

    Based on last season, how could many of these players NOT be somewhat pro-Skelton??? What they know is that when Kolb played, they lost more games than they won. When Skelton played, they won more games than they lost. Nothing complicated about that. They would never say it – nor should they – but you KNOW some of these guys are thinking it. Put yourself in their place…wouldn’t you be thinking the same???

    It’s like what Kevin Costner’s character says in Bull Durham – If you think you’re winning because of ANY particular reason, then you are. Once that becomes a mindset, it becomes reality. This team was winning games over the second half of last season and they were winning them with John Skelton at QB. Period. Doesn’t matter what his stats were or how good he looked. It comes down to a simple association of who was leading the team when the team was winning games with consistency. Right now, these guys CAN make that association with Skelton. They can’t make that association with Kolb because they haven’t seen it yet.

    That being said…the mindset I HOPE these guys have come opening day is that they’re gonna play their tails off every week no matter who the QB is.

  2. By Kurt on Jul 25, 2012 | Reply

    This is garbage – I can never remember Cardinals players weighing in on a preffered QB in the midst of a QB battle. But this is the internet and Ryan Dempster was traded by the Cubs to the Braves monday.

  3. By elimatees on Jul 25, 2012 | Reply

    @ Scott, The ‘reason’ they won during the second half was the defense. The players leading the team were the Defensive players. Not to mention, PP had a few nice returns too.

  4. By cobra on Jul 25, 2012 | Reply

    Scott H-

    Re: association with QBs:

    Think of how Kolb felt the first half of the season, getting pummeled because of bad line and defensive play. Yes, some of it is on him also, just saying.

    It would be hard for him to say, I want the second half season defense, because they won, over the first half season defense, because they sucked.

    May the best QB play his role, and I think we’ll be fine.

  5. By truths4all on Jul 25, 2012 | Reply

    @ elimatees – sure that is a valid point, but make no mistake, unless it is a fumble recovery or an interception, the Defense scores no points, even if they win the field position exchanges. During their run, the Cards Offense still had to score their share of points (along with PP) in order to win 7 games. The Defense never played a down of offensive plays. Remember, it is still a TEAM game and players recall who contributed to each win. The players give Skelton his due as they know the Defense did their part, Special Teams did their part, and the Offense did their part (I still wish Doucet did not trip over his own feet on that broken coverage play that would have gone for a TD against the Bengals. Also, remember how quickly Skelton threw that pass? He threw it immediately when he saw the broken coverage.

  6. By J G on Jul 25, 2012 | Reply

    @ Scott, I understand what your trying to say but I think it’s a little misguided. Skelton won more games then Kolb (anyone reading anything from has probably heard that thrown around plenty by now), but (and I realise you briefly flagged this) all of those wins should not be attributed to Skelton’s leadership. The Cards won those games because the defense and special teams squads stepped up in a big way, whilst the offense showed promise but often fell short because of poor choices and plays made by Skelton.

    Your idea that because Skelton when played the Cardinals won has made the team associate Skelton with wins is also misguided. Essentially its a really poor use of classical conditioning theory.

    This being said I do think Skelton showed a lot of promise at QB, he showed poise in the pocket, a seemingly relaxed attitude under pressure in big moments of games, and great arm strength. But we fans shouldn’t be so quick to throw out Kolb, he (in his brief experience as a starter) has showed flashes of brilliance in Philidelphia, especially in the 2009 season when he replaced McNabb and won NFC player of the week honors when playing against the Chiefs. Kolb didn’t have a chance this past season, with way too much pressure put on him by himself and fans, coupled with no real time to learn a new system – it really was a recipie for disaster.

    I’m excited to see who will be our QB this year, and hope that the Cards have found “their guy” for the coming years. Go Cards!!

  7. By Aaron on Jul 25, 2012 | Reply

    We won those close games with great defense and Patrick Peterson returning kicks.

  8. By Scott H on Jul 25, 2012 | Reply

    eliminates –

    Yes, I absolutely acknowledge the role of the vastly imroved defensive play over the second half as a major factor in how things turned around. But John Skelton wasn’t hiding during those games. He was the guy with the ball in his hands on every offensive snap and he DID make some plays when he needed to, often late in games when they were needed most. Are you discounting that? The defense wasn’t throwing shut-outs every week.

    cobra –

    Yes, Kolb was causing problems too often for himself by holding onto the ball too long. But I agree with you, have said all along that I just want the best guy to play. I believe that Kolb is a better QB than he has shown so far to this point in his career. Then again, his injuries and extended time missed due to same ARE the reason why he remains un-proven in the eyes of many. Much has been said about the differences in the systems Kolb was used to in Philly and the one he had so little time to learn here in Arizona. OK . Completely valid. BUT…if Kolb is no better here this year, that excuse goes out the window.

  9. By Jesus on Jul 25, 2012 | Reply

    what was Skeltons record his first season?
    i believe 2-1 Right. and lets not forget he didn’t get the rep either

    1. Lienart/Anderson
    2. Max Hall
    3. Skelton

    he was #4 in training camp yet the only one able to win games.

    oh and last year in training camp

    it was

    1. Kolb
    2. Hall until he was cut
    3. Skelton

    so again with minimal reps

    he went out and won some games.

    and Larry shines when skelton is out there, he really elevates his game.

    not the he needs to but he does

  10. By duecer54 on Jul 25, 2012 | Reply

    There were quite a few rookies in last year’s NFL that played better than Kolb. With 4 years of NFL experience, you would think he’d pick up a new system as fast as any rookie. Granted Kolb had some success in Philly’s offense, so maybe he just doesn’t fit in ours!

  11. By Andy M on Jul 25, 2012 | Reply

    No doubt the defense really began to gel in the last half of the season and contributed heavily to the late-season run. Skelton’s stats were mediocre and there is a lot to be critical about, but he also showed that he is a “gamer” by repeatedly leading the team on game-winning drives. It was my impression that the team really rallied around this leadership. Kolb faltered more than once when the game was on the line. I think they both have a lot more in them. The cream will rise–as they say and the competition will make them both better. One of the things we should all remember is that it is unusual for a quarterback to make it through 16 games in an NFL season, so this is not an “either/or” situation. Having two adequate QB’s is a luxury. Let’s just hope one emerges as better than adequate.

  12. By watson tom on Jul 25, 2012 | Reply

    In response to Elimatees statement that Skelton didn’t win those games the defense did. Then Kolb didn’t loose the first half of the season games, the defense did.

  13. By CreditCard on Jul 25, 2012 | Reply

    The only item that Kolb is clearly better than skelton is reading a defense. Skelton’s other skills, such as foot work, ball release, looking over the line (he’s taller), runs better, takes a hit better, more velocity on a throw, are all in Skelton’s camp. Once he learns to read a defense as well as Kolb, Kolb will be watching games behind a clip board. I think the players know that Skelton’s physical skills are better than Kolbs, is why the players might be expressing their thoughts.

  14. By BIG RED on Jul 25, 2012 | Reply

    I would think people would rally behind the guy that got drafted by the team, not an outsider, especially for the money they gave him. Which I don’t think his worth it….. BIG MISTAKE.

  15. By Brian on Jul 25, 2012 | Reply

    Really don’t think there is an argument for either player that is going to win the message board QB battle. All the stats and arguments from the past that people are using can pretty much be thrown out the window. Kolb isn’t going to lose the battle because he’s injury prone. Skelton isn’t going to win the battle because he went 5-2 down the stretch last season. It’s all in the past. This is the first time the two of them will be on an even playing field in the competition and this training camp will determine the winner. Maybe we come out of this with two solid QBs so that we are covered if one of them gets hurt, whether that’s Kolb OR Skelton, who knows? Guess what, none of us do, and not even the team does. Let’s hope they both play their butts off and make this the toughest decision Whiz has to make. It will only make our team better.

  16. By Sport245245 on Jul 25, 2012 | Reply

    Yes, the defense played better in the second half of the season, however, the one salient thing that John Skelton did that Kevin Kolb didn’t was when the game was on the line in the 4th quarter, he took the team down the field for a score. Think about games 2 and 3. The Washington game and the Seattle game. He had the opportunity in both games, but didn’t get it done. You just have to give Skelton some of the credit for the late season surge. I say let the best man play but I know they have to find out about Kolb because of financial considerations.

  17. By John the draft guy on Jul 25, 2012 | Reply

    Ok , this might be a little negative.

    I hope Skelton wins the battle. Not because I think he is great. I think he can be average and win games. I think he will be better than last year and who knows, maybe he can become a solid QB.

    But, the other part of my motivation is If Kolb is the Backup, he will be released in the off season, freeing up money to think about extending contracts of guys like D Washington.

    Plus, We will finally realize we need a franchise QB and draft one next year. Watch Tyler Wilson this year (Arkansas) Against the SEC , he passed for 3600 yrds and 24 tds vs 6 picks in 13 games.

    End this madness year after year and draft a QB who will lead this team for the next 15 years. And before you give me the Leinart garbage, one first round QB every what 15-20 years is unacceptable.

  18. By Scott H on Jul 26, 2012 | Reply

    JG –

    Well, I’ve been mis-guided before and I’m sure I’ll be mis-guided again at some point. Happens to the best of us. I enjoyed your response BUT I think you need to realize one thing – you don’t know what the other players are thinking for sure any more than I do. I am SPECULATING that there are probably SOME players who may feel more confident in Skelton because he was on the field for more games that were won than Kolb was. I don’t think that has anything to do with classical conditioning. I just think that is a matter of one guy winning more games than the other guy did. As a very simple premise, I think winning is more readily associated with ANYONE who was on the field / court / ice / track / whatever for more of it than the other guy was.

    But unless you KNOW for sure what these players believe, you are speculating as well. Therefore, I think accusing me of being mis-guided is a little harsh in this case.

    Enjoying the dialogue, though.

  19. By Kevin S on Jul 27, 2012 | Reply

    This dialogue has been going on forever now. I will just say this — there are two quarterbacks in 2011 who took over midseason on a team that had just one win, and those teams got back to 8-8. One was the Cardinals with Skelton. The other was the Broncos with Tebow who took over as a starter after a 1-4 start and went 7-4 the rest of the way. Much like Skelton, Tebow was typically horrible most of the game, but played better in the 4th quarter and his team pulled out a few big wins. Now, I’m not trying to compare Tebow and Skelton as quarterbacks; I just make the analogy to show that we often ascribe qualities to players after the fact based on the results we see. “Skelton just knows how to win.” “Skelton’s a gamer.” “Skelton’s a natural leader.” “Skelton’s at his best under pressure.” You could substitute the name Tebow in each of those sentences and I guarantee that the same things have been said about him. Now, would any serious fan want Tim Tebow as the quarterback of the Cardinals? I sure hope not. While I don’t doubt that some players have intangible qualities that make them “winners,” I wouldn’t look at the results from one season — especially considering the change in the defense and other factors like the schedule (Skelton got the starting job right after Kolb had just played Pitt and Baltimore … and Skelton’s first opponent, that he gets twice in the next four games, is the worst team in the conference, the Rams), not to mention the QB stats that are staring you right in the face (lower completion percentage, lower yards/attempt, more INT’s) — and then say that simply because the team happened to win more games with him at the helm, Skelton is the guy over Kolb. If you believe that then you should be all over Tebow.

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