Some tid, some bits on a Thursday morning

Posted by Darren Urban on November 15, 2012 – 10:52 am

Sometimes, it takes intense evaluation to know where you are as a team. Sometimes, it’s a little more simple.

“It really comes down in this league — and watching (Sunday’s opponent) Atlanta is a good example, to making those plays (to win),” Cardinals coach Ken Whisenhunt said. “The Falcons make a lot of catches in tight coverage and the quarterback throws it in there. If the Green Bay game is any judge of that, we drop balls when we’re wide open. We can’t do that. We miss tackles in the open field. You can’t do that.”

Again, and this has been said too many times to count, the Cardinals as constructed don’t have margin for error. Their defense is good, but not so suffocatingly good it can hold off the opposition every time. The offense can’t turn it over and must carve out more points when it has a chance, because there won’t be too many — if any — 30-point outbursts. Special teams has to contribute to aid both sides. The Cards have to have something more to be in the game.

— My first visit to Atlanta, way back in 2004, was memorable. The Falcons won, 6-3, even though first-year defensive coordinator Clancy Pendergast came up with a great gameplan to foil QB Michael Vick and Cardinals defensive end Peppi Zellner — remember him? — had probably his best game (only good game?) in Arizona. The Cards fumbled the ball late (wide receiver Karl Williams) in the red zone right before a chance to at least tie the game. Atlanta’s kicker booted two field goals for the win. That kicker just happened to be Jay Feely (h/t Mark Dalton for that memory.)

— Because I know some people still might be interested, word out of Philadelphia is that the future of cornerback Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie is uncertain with his contract set to expire.

— Another former Card, Chiefs wide receiver Steve Breaston, was a surprise healthy scratch on Monday night.

— The bye week is tough. With no games, you start to run out of things to talk about over two weeks (although a losing streak doesn’t help.)

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36 Responses to “Some tid, some bits on a Thursday morning”

  1. By jocards on Nov 15, 2012 | Reply

    You know what? As simple as Whisenhunt’s synopsis was it is absolutely correct. You have to make plays in NFL (or constantly get bailed out by the officials but that doesn’t apply to this team) in order to win. I know some folks will jump all over coach’s comment as being vanilla and simplistic but they are true. The Cardinals need guys to make plays. If the QB puts the ball on the receiver he has to catch it, if a guy has a chance to make the tackle he can’t miss, if a receiver comes open the QB has to hit him….and this team really can’t afford turnovers. It is my belief that every player and every coach needs to make certain that they are doing their job to the best of their ability….but in the end the players have to make the plays when they are there to be made. It really is that simple.

  2. By MIKE G on Nov 15, 2012 | Reply

    Hey Darren– Hope all is good. Looking forward to a Cardinal game this weekend. Feels there is a void when the Card’s don’t play a game on a normal Sunday. I remember that Falcons 6-3 win in 2004–that was a bad game- I think there was like 10 turnovers between the two teams that day. I think this game will be cleaner-looking forward to getting Beanie back-Cards must contain Turner and get contributions from all 3 phases of the game. Concerned that the Falcons will come out with a physical style and try to run it down the Card’s throats–especially with Campbell doubtful. Also interested to see how Groves performs on defense. Darren-do you think Floyd is going to get alot more playing time in this one????–especially after Doucet’s rough game against the Pack???

  3. By Darren Urban on Nov 15, 2012 | Reply

    Mike G —

    RE: Floyd

    Yes, I expect that.

  4. By Mike in Mesa on Nov 15, 2012 | Reply

    Listened to Cardinals Underground. Loved hearing Wolf’s analysis of Skeltons game. Finally someone else who saw the game Skelton had. I couldn’t believe how many fans blamed Skelton for the loss when he had a good game. His receivers, except for Roberts and Floyd, played below their capabilities. Fans seem to jump on solitary mistakes here too quickly. Skelton throws one pick and he should be banished. Yet Peyton or Eli can throw 3 picks in a game, do you think their fans want them benched? Not only do some of the players need to up their game on this team, I think the coaches do also. Thought the play calling hurt us last game. Still puzzled why Powell and Smith are getting no carries. After his preseason performance Bradley should be getting some looks also. Actually I’m encouraged by the o-lines performance, but if Skelton starts lighting it up we’ll have to see how they do if teams start to blitz more.

  5. By chriswesl on Nov 15, 2012 | Reply

    great comment jocards!

  6. By cardsalltheway on Nov 15, 2012 | Reply

    “If the Green Bay game is any judge of that, we drop balls when we’re wide open. We can’t do that. We miss tackles in the open field. You can’t do that.”

    Ken W. is like a broken record, so routinely and repeatedly placing blame on players while never taking any blame himself. At least he hasn’t yet this year that I’m aware of and only did so once last year.

  7. By wnycardfan on Nov 15, 2012 | Reply

    Yup, coach hit it on the head, can’t do those SIMPLE mistakes. The winning teams don’t make those simple mistakes (ie catch a ball in the open, make the easy tackle, ec) AND they to the fantastic (catch the ball in tight quarters, etc). SO, if we can’t do the simple stuff when we are wide open etc… well, there you go, we stink. So why is that? I know we aren’t the only team with a losing record, but it seems like we are one of them that HAVE the talent, but can’t use it (or won’t, etc). As many have said, why not spread the running ball around to others besides LSH? A move on the line was well past due. The move on receivers was well past due. I hope we see some play calling that is different (that is well past due).

  8. By rodgerscromartie17 on Nov 15, 2012 | Reply

    I pray that this is a hint of a realistic attempt at bringing cromartie back, they need to do what they gotta do to make that happen, they need that talent back, cromartie had how many game winning int’s and plays in the last half of his first year? they traded him because of kolb, not cause he wasnt good, he made plays here, often! drc and p2wice for 2013

  9. By john the draft guy on Nov 15, 2012 | Reply

    Remember that game and came away impressed with the game plan Clancy put together.

    Would DRC be welcomed back by the coaching staff. Lots of rumors were flying around back at the time of the trade that DRC wasn’t a Horton kind of player. I personally think Horton leaves those corners out on islands a lot and DRC would be a great fit. Any inside info?

    What happened to Breaston? Injuries?

    Finally, I totally agree with Ken W. and Jocards but also see cardsalltheway’s point.
    Players have to make plays. Coaches can coach and design plays and make the right call, and if the player doesn’t execute, the play goes wrong..

    But the other side to that is the coach has to recognize talent and how to use it to be successful.
    LSH is elusive and tough to bring down in the open field. He can be a matchup nightmare. But running goal line between tackles isnt his strong point. Neither is taking on blitzing LBs. Putting him in those spots isn’t wise. Neither is running LSH on goalline behind a struggling rookie and a backup guard. But I guess you had a rookie and a struggling guard on the other side too.

    But then you look at Doucet who is made for crossing routes drop several balls and Fleming in position and just not bat the ball down.

    So, I think there is room for both coaches and players to improve in the middle of this 5 game losing streak

  10. By Darren Urban on Nov 15, 2012 | Reply

    john the draft guy —

    RE: Questions

    1) I don’t expect DRC to come back. Not sure he is a fit, and not sure what kind of money he will want. The Cards already have their No. 1 CB.

    2) Breaston is healthy. But he was brought in by Haley, and Haley is gone.

  11. By KKfan on Nov 15, 2012 | Reply

    @ cardsalltheway, funny how you say Whis blames the players and don’t take any of the blame himself. Well, us Eagle fans have just the opposite complaint in Reid. That he takes all the blame. Giving none to the players.

    The truth is the players are responsible for their mistakes. Not executing the plays. The coaches are responsible to make sure the game plan is winnable and that the players are put in the right positions to make those plays . Apparently neither philosophy works. Since both teams have struggled of late. Of course the injury bug has hit both teams pretty hard. Sometimes there are just too many to over come.
    Good luck Sunday against the Falcons. They tore us up!

    Now with Vick out and the rookie Foels in, our season looks like it will continue to be more of the same. Though Foles did show some good things in his off the bench start last week against the Cowboys. But made rookie mistakes that were late in the game to over come.

  12. By Buck on Nov 15, 2012 | Reply

    cardsalltheway If a pass is dropped the one to blame is the receiver – if a tackle is missed the one to blame is the tackler. Don’t try to tie those onto the head coach..

  13. By KKfan on Nov 15, 2012 | Reply

    @rogerscromartie17, You may get your wish. He isn’t playing as well as the Eagles expected him to. He looked great in T/C and pre season . But hasn’t brought that play making ability to the regular season. He’s been exclusively used on the outside. I think he’s had 1 INT.

    With a cleanning of the house expected by many in media ( and a large contingency of the fan base) at the end of the season, he may become a F/A. Don’t know if he will be an UFA though.

    Of course having switched DC hasn’t helped the defense any either. They were just starting to come together under Juans in his second season. Now its back to
    different schemes and conscept with Bowels.

  14. By Dynosoar on Nov 15, 2012 | Reply


    I liked Cromartie as well, especially durring our Super Bowl run.

    Comparing him to our current CB’s

    Rodgers-Cromartie: 18 tackles 12 PDef. 3 Int 14 yrds
    Patrick Peterson: 26 tackles 12 PDef. 3 Int 33 yrds
    William Gay: 24 tackles 4 PDef. 1 Int 6 yrds
    Greg Toler: 13 tackles 3 PDef. 1 Int 0 yrds

    Looking at the stats to date, it would be good to have Cromartie lined up opposite of Peterson.

    My Questions: 1. Would he come back? 2. Would he fit into Ray Horton’s scheme (could he learn it)? 3. Would he have given us 4 punt returns for TD’s last year? 4. Does he still like his McDonalds? (Sorry, couldn’t resist that one.) 5. Lastly, Would you give up Gay or Toler or Flemming or someone else?

  15. By Peter in Canada on Nov 15, 2012 | Reply

    cardsalltheway – Sadly, you are the broken record. Your constant complaining about Whiz is tiresome. At least georgiebird’s criticisms have some variety, are somewhat informed and can be entertainining. Yours have none of the above.

  16. By Brett on Nov 15, 2012 | Reply


    Your comments amaze me. Your right, Whiz should take the blame for receivers dropping balls and missing tackles.

  17. By joe67 on Nov 15, 2012 | Reply

    Yep, really a very simple game.
    Block, tackle, throw, catch, run, and oh yeh, don’t turn the ball over. These are the things that all good, winning teams do. Just think about it. Its that simple.

    I doubt DRC would be traded for. Maybe as a free agent if he is cut. But just how good is he?

  18. By rodgerscromartie17 on Nov 15, 2012 | Reply

    As bad as I and thousands of others would like a win, well lets be realistic, those are not going to come around often until things actually get taken care of instead of just talked about season after season week after week, I am talking about the coaching, evaluating the garbage talent that has somehow been able to stay with the team for a few seasons, the lack of free agency moves, and the DRAFT. Floyd is a baller and I see a good future, and honestly I am pleased they took him, but at the same time the o line should have been first priority. Heap better add like 7 TD’s the remainder of the season or he just needs to go to. Im tellin ya, send Toler and a pick to Philly and get Dominique back, because nobody else is covering sh%t, heck even toss Skelton in the deal if you have too. PLEASE SIGN SOMEBODY THAT IS PROVEN TALENT FOR ONCE! Way too many players come here and go sign some where else. I am going to dive head first onto the side walk once a week until Miller is fired, Somebody please give Russ Grimm something to coach for once, or at leased bring in the lady who slapped some sense into Hellen Keller, at least we know she can teach something. What ever the Cardinals big time game plan of being an NFL football team is, obviously is not working, you would think the team learned their lesson after letting Lienbust steal 50 million from them, but I guess Kolb is just a little bit better at” not doing anything while getting payed the big bucks doing it”. Speaking of, I bet if the Cards played Oakland and Palmer was hurt, Lienart would still shred the Cards D. William Gay? I am not going to lie, when I first found out about Gay coming to the Cardinals, I thought, oh no, a repeat of the Bryant McFadden FAIL, and of coarse, so far so good, please send him back to Pitt. They say you gotta have room and money for other spots on the roster, yet they let so many players make a few million while not doing anything, season after season, well, there is your problem, there is maybe like 10 players on this team that deserve the money they make. Ryan Williams would be the best running back EVER, in the CFL… Rolle and Dansby are laughing at us right now. Kurt Warner realizes how much of a god he was to this team. Everybody knows Fitzgeralds pissed, the only thing keepin him sane is 120 million dollars. Hats off to Washington, Campbell, Dockett, Peterson Acho and Schofield and the rest of the D for keepin it real on defense and holdin on as long as they could to bring us the only 4 wins we got. There is my $1.25, my room is still cardinal red and I still have 10 jerseys hanging high with high hopes. Hopefully Wiz and Horton dont go any where anytime soon and we get back to the big bowl we were robbed of seasons ago, goodnight everybody.

  19. By Chris on Nov 15, 2012 | Reply

    Any word on Kolb? Have you seen him working out at the facility, do you think he will play again this season?

  20. By Darren Urban on Nov 15, 2012 | Reply

    Chris —

    RE: Kolb

  21. By Rugbymuffin on Nov 15, 2012 | Reply

    Biggest disapointment this year is special teams. They needed to be an asset and have been more of a hinderance.

    But, can’t wait for Sunday, bye weeks stink.

  22. By rodgerscromartie17 on Nov 15, 2012 | Reply


    I would trade Fleming or Toler for DRC any day. Rodgers-Cromartie did more for the team as cornerback than any of the guys that are here now, he won games doing what he learned as a Cardinal.

    They say he wouldnt be a good fit in Hortons defense, thats nonsense to me. He is the fastest guy on the field every week. They need that back so he can cover the deep ball, and he makes plays doing it too. That leaves you with Peterson to get physical inside.

    Cromartie knows whats good in AZ, he is proven in AZ, and he is loved in AZ too, bring him back!

  23. By jocards on Nov 15, 2012 | Reply

    Of course I am hoping for a win this weekend but really what I want to see is this team play solid football for 60 minutes on both sides of the ball….and I guess I’d better mention special teams or it’ll come back to bite me if I don’t. An upset would be fantastic but first we need to play solid football. Things are bad right now, they are very bad and the only way they will get better is if this team goes back to the basics and executes well. We can’t turn the ball over, we have to make tackles, we have to catch the ball & the O line has to create a little space in the running game & give Skelton some time. Again, NO TURNOVERS….We need to hold onto the rock & Skelton has to make good decisions and realize it is okay to punt the ball. Coaching and game planning is very important, no doubt about it but in the end the players have to execute….We play some tough teams the rest of the way and getting wins will not be easy…but the road to respectability needs to start this Sunday in Atlanta.

  24. By rodgerscromartie17 on Nov 15, 2012 | Reply


    The way I look at it, Rodgers-Cromartie had 10 interceptions in his first 2 seasons compared to Peterson’s 5 interceptions so far, Cromartie returned 2 of those 10 for game winning touchdowns. Peterson has yet to return a touchdown as a corner back. Punt returning is a different story. Bottom line DRC made they plays that won the games despite lacking the size of Peterson or the other guys. Larry Fitzgerald said it himself, Cromartie is the most gifted person he as ever been around from a Physical standpoint. I believe he is still the fastest player in the NFL.

  25. By The everlasting Kolbstopper on Nov 15, 2012 | Reply


    Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think PP21 returned an interception for a TD in his very first game against as a cardinal Cam Newton.

  26. By rodgerscromartie17 on Nov 15, 2012 | Reply

    You would think Ray Horton would remember the play in the Superbowl when Rodgers-Cromartie caught up to Washington and knocked that bomb down last second to prevent a touchdown. Thats playmaking!

  27. By "Whiz n Punt-goodbye" on Nov 15, 2012 | Reply

    It is sure a good thing that Whiz n Punt kept the CC injury hidden as I am sure he completly fooled ATL. ATL has ball boys that could evaluate and coach talent better that the AZ staff. I am hoping that the big changes to come for this game is that he resigns Sunday morning as he has lost the team again. Amazing how he has taken Denny Greens talent filled roster and chased away good players to sign a bunch of washed up free agents. Just wondering how long until Fitz says trade me.

  28. By john the draft guy on Nov 15, 2012 | Reply

    I think rodgerscromartie17 was waiting for you to mention DRC. Man, I think you woke him up.

    rodgerscromartie17, just so you know, and this might get you more fired up, we don;t have to trade for him this offseason. DRC will be a free agent free to sign with any team.

  29. By jocards on Nov 15, 2012 | Reply

    You know I’ve read a considerable amount of posts saying that Whisenhunt won with Dennis Green’s roster and that he is a terrible judge of talent, etc., etc….Funny thing is that Dennis Green didn’t win with Dennis Green’s roster and everybody wanted him run out of town too. I am not a Whisenhunt apologist but he is the most successful coach in franchise history which admittedly says more about the franchise than it does about the coach…However my point is that there is always a large portion of fans that want the coach fired when the team is losing….that is just a part of being an NFL head coach. I don’t believe Whisenhunt is a bad coach nor do I think he’s a great coach. I don’t think this football team is as “good” as a lot of folks here want to believe it is. Graves and Whisenhunt both share some responsibility for that for sure but these are NFL players and they all have a lot of talent, these guys have to execute and make plays.

  30. By phillycards on Nov 15, 2012 | Reply

    Andre roberts isn’t better than Kevin kasper.or even bryant johnson. The overall level of talent is poor in several spots. And we have a severe lack of depth across the board. This trend began in 2010, so I think it has less to do with graves and more to do with whisenhunt and the credit he got for haley and warners work.

    Drc won’t come back unless the coach is gone.several players left with what seems to me as poor relationship with whiz.

    And clancy pendergrast got a bad rap.gerard hayes was a dog for the last 2 or 3 seasons and nobody noticed until dansby left?me neither but his play was noticebly bad.

    the one thing about the superbowl run that I’ve noticed the giants tried the right rear corner td pass several times in week 11 I think.drc barely tips the pass away and the saftey was way late.three months later The steelers used a simular play to both sides of endzone in the sb. And finally they stuck with the right side (only one foot down) santonio got us with fransisco, adub is never involved in giants or steeler play.but it was a clear undisiplined hole in the defense in addition to green and hayes.

    Ultimately it was mike bidwill who gave the extention and placed our sunday fates in whisenhunts hands.graves only buys groceries he’s told to blame is with the cooks

  31. By bluepitt on Nov 15, 2012 | Reply

    @Mike in Mesa,
    I understand you love JS, but to love any thing wolf says is just Funny! He is a HOMER! He loves who is at the helm on any given week! Do we have to many drops? Sure, but to throw a pick in every game you play in is just insane! Last year JS had more Int’s than TD’s (almost double) and if you look this year the trend continues 2 TD’s to 5 Int’s (more than double) It is what it is!
    PS: when Eli or Payton throw INT’s they usually back that up with a Win or a TD on the next drive! not go 3 and out!

    You dont understand the gripe! It is simple Whiz is a way better Coach than Green. But have you noticed once Whiz was rooted (3yrs in) he began to tear apart that “Core” group of players that Green had built? Oh and what is our record now and after that “Core” Group left?
    NUF SAID!!!

  32. By Gary on Nov 16, 2012 | Reply

    We really need to bring DRC back badly. Our DB’s are getting torched. William Gay has been so bad it’s like watching McFadden all over again. I don’t know what happened to our special teams but they need to wake up.

    I do think our offense will improve. Watching Skelton play against Greenbay was nice. He did a good job and seems to be improving every week. Also I think the O-line will be better now that Nate Potter is in for Batiste. Bobby Massie has looked good the last couple of games and should be prettty solid for us the rest of the year.

    If there is one move in free agency next year that this team needs to do it is to bring back DRC. In the draft take one of the top three OT’s ( Lewan, Joeckel,Matthews) and next offseason will be a success.

  33. By bluepitt on Nov 16, 2012 | Reply

    Actually….Yes he needs to take blame! It is not like this is the first game this has happened!, it is constant with this team.. They lead with the shoulder not looking where the tackle needs to be made, They have drills for all the crap (fundamentals) that we just cant seem to do, and yet here we are watching the same things reach up and bite us every season!!!!!
    Question: How many times have you watched Dousette drop balls “this year”?
    Yup, a curtail drop in every game! Why is he still even put in when it’s crunch time? I’ve personally been questioning His playing time for 2 years now?
    Who is evaluating his talent? Would he even make a NFL roster (besides the Cards)?
    At what point do the “Coaches” realize the missed tackles are because our Defenders look for the big hit (dropping the shoulder with the hands locked at their own waist, like trying to break down a door) , and usually just getting a piece of the ball carrier or air, or are they scared to actually stand in front of the ball carrier take the hit and wrap him up. I change the channel and see Da Bears, Giants, Squeelers, Texans & Ravens wrapping up at the point and bringing down the ball carrierits (its like NCAA football to PoP Warner the Cards being PoP Warner.) Sure they are not highlight hits but they are just what you need, solid tackles!!! Diving at a dudes feet just doesn’t work, if you think i’m joking or full of it, just watch a couple old games and think about what i’m saying and then post a reply.

  34. By Chuck 1 on Nov 16, 2012 | Reply


    If Graves only does what Whiz tells him, then he is of no value and should be canned.

    The title “GENERAL MANAGER” should mean something.

  35. By rodgerscromartie17 on Nov 17, 2012 | Reply

    kol stopper, that first game last season was a punt return… do you even watch games haha?

  36. By rodgerscromartie17 on Nov 17, 2012 | Reply

    he returned a td in the pre season against the chargers, but obviously that doesnt matter

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