Falcons aftermath

Posted by Darren Urban on November 18, 2012 – 7:32 pm

Larry Fitzgerald is always going to say the right things. But it’d be interesting to crawl into his head right now and find out his true feelings about where the Cardinals and their offense are right now. Maybe he indeed is absorbing it all rationally. Of course, if he was, I’d start to wonder if he was human. When Fitz was trying to find the right way to explain Sunday’s loss despite the Cards making play after play defensively, you had to feel for him. One catch for 11 yards isn’t what you need from your star, your Pro Bowler. Then again, had he been able to pull down that last pass – and, standing just 20 yards or so away, I thought he was going to make it – he’d have been the hero and I believe the Cards would have punched in the game-winning points.

That didn’t happen.

Where from here? You can’t ask for much more from the defense. Daryl Washington may say the defense has to do more, but I’m not sure that’s possible. If the Cards just get one more touchdown – and the Cards had the ball at the Falcons’ 35 or closer four times without being able to make that happen – they win.

— At this point, I don’t know who will be the quarterback against the Rams next week. As I sit here on the charter flight home, you could see a scenario where it could be any one of the three guys on the roster. Next week will be six weeks since Kevin Kolb got hurt. I still don’t see Kolb, who was throwing some but not practicing last week, coming back yet. John Skelton could start. Ryan Lindley could.

— Was I surprised Lindley went in? Yes and no. The Cardinals were up 13-0 and, at least at that point, what they would get from Skelton was probably a known quantity, especially with his teammates. Then again, Skelton missing Fitzgerald in the end zone, that wasn’t the first time that kind of thing had happened. And I do agree with Whiz when he said if people are going to be held accountable, that has to include the quarterback.

Whisenhunt acknowledged he made the decision after Skelton missed Fitz for that TD.

“We had a play that’s open (and) you’ve got to make that throw,” Whisenhunt said.

— Let me head off a couple of questions I will inevitably get. Yes, I think the Cards will chase someone new at quarterback this offseason. No, I don’t know who, and right now, I just see that as a discussion for another day. It’s Kolb/Skelton/Lindley the rest of this season, regardless.

— Here’s another question I want to head off (and I’m not saying you can’t pontificate on this in the comments, just that I don’t plan on answering it again): No, I don’t think Whiz will be fired now. I don’t think there will be any coaching changes in season. After the season, once all the games are played, yes, there will probably be changes going in this direction. No, I don’t think it will be Whisenhunt. As I have said many times, I expect him to be coaching here in 2013.

— Adrian Wilson didn’t have much to say about being what turned out to be benched, kind of. Wilson still played in the base defense, but since the Cards started in nickel, he didn’t start. I’m sure he’s not happy – the man has played in four straight Pro Bowls, then was asked to take a pay cut and now this – but today, after the defense forced six turnovers, it’s hard to argue with the decision-making on that side of the ball. UPDATE: Wilson still played 41 of 73 total defensive snaps — 56 percent.

— Patrick Peterson did come back in the game after hurting his hamstring, but that will be something to watch this week.

— Apparently, according to ESPN’s research, Matt Ryan was the first QB to throw five interceptions in a game without a touchdown and win a game since the Packers’ Bart Starr did it in 1967.

— Fifth-round pick Senio Kelemete, who was inactive today, was the only player in the seven-man draft class not to play today. Didn’t see that coming during the 4-0 start.

— If there was any déjà vu involved while watching today’s game, there was reason. The Cardinals have been crazy playmaking productive on defense in the recent past and somehow lost before – the Monday Night Meltdown game in 2006. Rex Grossman had four picks and two lost fumbles.

Well, I certainly can’t complain, coming off the bye, of a lack of things to talk about this week. There will be plenty on which to chew before the Rams’ game. Signing off for now.

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144 Responses to “Falcons aftermath”

  1. By Dave on Nov 18, 2012 | Reply

    I’d like to see the Cardinals sign Chase Daniel to be QB next year.

  2. By jason marcus on Nov 18, 2012 | Reply

    Houston ……we have a problem….what a lopsided loss I stayed up till 5am to watch this and couldnt believe how well our defense was, running game was great also special teams what happened, we don’t have a qb or anyone who can throw the ball in the end zone, very sad, were the most talented team with a losing record and no way out if Kolb dosnt come back next week we might as well have a draft 13 season I got sick after game and was late for work, better luck next time, anyone not thinking we could have had a better chance to win these last couple games with Vince Young IS WRONG, im not sayn hes our guy or franchise boy but jeez we are 1 game from being a cooked bird people.

  3. By Chris on Nov 18, 2012 | Reply

    “what they would get from Skelton was probably a known quality”

    Guessing you meant quantity. In any event, just an embarrassing loss by any standard, I’m surprised that the D would let the offense back on the plane.

    If we had a league average offense, we’d have a winning record and be fighting for a playoff spot. Instead, we’re headed for a third year in a row of putrid offense, with little hope for the future.

    Love Whiz, and appreciate all he’s done, but he’s an offensive coach, and needs to get that side of the house in order. One year post Kurt, I can understand the futility, but this is the 3rd year, and arguably our worst offense yet.

    Something has to give.

  4. By rick on Nov 18, 2012 | Reply

    Shame on that offense for not rewarding our defense who played their hearts out from start to finish. What a classy bunch of defensive players who blame themselves for allowing the last touchdown in the 4th quarter. I strongly disagreed with the pulling of John Skelton in the second quarter up 13-0. I am up for major changes in the off season and if that means trading fitz for a 1st round pick or something like that then so be it. The guy is getting paid 120 million dollars and he couldnt hang on to a catch that would have given the cardinals a 4th down conversion. Plus he has been dropping too many catches lately. Maybe its time to trade him while he still has very high trade value and rebuild this horrible offense and it hurts to say that but if we cant get him the ball and if he cant hold on to catches then so be it. I would rather have a great quarterback and avaerage receivers than a great receiver and a below average quarterback.

  5. By Carlo Milano on Nov 18, 2012 | Reply

    Do you think they will look at new qb in free agency or draft ? Your thought

  6. By rufus on Nov 18, 2012 | Reply

    Whisenhunt and Graves are rightfully to blame for this mess. Not using a high draft pick for the OL the last five years is a big reason why it remains such a problem. QB choices have not worked out and will likely continue into the offseason with them making the decisions. It’s tough to cheer for a team when you don’t have any confidence in the braintrust.

  7. By sarah on Nov 18, 2012 | Reply

    Sad beyond sad that they get 5 interceptions and no passing TD. I get why Skelton got benched but Lindley was pedestrian and it was not worth the lesson for the whole game. Should have brought back Skelton for the second half as that is when he plays best. It was a risky move that did not pay off in my opinion, especially after Skelton’s GB second half. We needed that win and frankly there goes the playoffs or any hope of a wild card. Skelton has to make that throw corner end zone throw end of story ( he floated it ) and the players mulling around Lindley’s fumble.. seriously daft ! If Skelton cannot execute the offense in the red zone then get rid of him, Lindley I am afraid does not instill confidence so where next ? This was such a winnable game, GB blame the defense and receivers this week the QB’s ! Unheard of a QB having 5 interceptions and still winning. Going with Lindley was a bad move, Kolb for sure but a rookie in a big game please !

  8. By jdcrow59 on Nov 18, 2012 | Reply

    Makes me sad to say this but, the Skelton experiment is over. That was as bad as it could be. Every single throw was garbage. Can’t really fault Lindley, first time out and such. Defense deserved so much more. They were on it from the jump. As good as LSH played he is not the answer on third and short up the middle..This will really be a test of how well this team can pull together after such a gut wrenching loss.

  9. By Kevin S on Nov 18, 2012 | Reply

    I’m waiting to see how Georgiebird blames this one on the defense.

    That offensive performance was just anemic. This game was handed to us on a platter and we couldn’t take advantage. In a sad way, I’m kinda glad Lindley didn’t look very good. The last thing we need is another marginal QB convincing the team and its fans that he is “the guy.” Although if Larry had pulled in that pass and then we punched it in and won the game, there would probably be people drinking Lindley Koolaid the way they drank Skelton Koolaid.

  10. By DontTakeLoses on Nov 18, 2012 | Reply

    I have no complaints about the Cards effort, or this game… except the Lindley fumble was not.

    One of a dozen plays goes our way by a foot, we win… on the road against an 8-1 team. No complaints. We were in it to the end, all I can ask…

    Maybe his supporters finally have figured out Skelton is a nice guy but can’t play the position at an NFL level. Only surprise is Whiz didn’t and Kolb had to be put through the ringer. Wolfley is right (from Podcast) , Kolb established himself the first quarter of the season as a capable winning QB with upside… that is what happened to our season more than anything. It is what it is, get over it and support these guys … they played their guts out.

    Washington is right, IF we hold them to a FG in Q4, we go to OT with chance to win.. in a game like this, can’t let them drive for the winning TD, just can’t…

    Roberts (on bomb) or Fitz (end of game) hold those catches, (both had both hands on them, both tough catches for sure)… we likely win… it is what it is… one play away… all you can ask for.. rest is fate…

    Only regret beside Kolb injury is not hiring Haley back… understand why… but a mistake none the less…

  11. By Kevin S on Nov 18, 2012 | Reply

    Rick —

    Let’s not start talking like Fitz has to be superhuman. That was a very tough catch, having to reach out to get it, stay in bounds, and then absorb a hit. Of course no Cards fan would be surprised if he hung on, but we can’t expect him to do it every time, regardless of how much he’s paid.

  12. By Ottis Anderson Fan on Nov 18, 2012 | Reply

    One more nail in the Whiz/Grimm/Graves coffin. 6 more to go and then we can bury them.

    I know the coaches and GM can’t make the throws or catch the balls, but they are responsible for evaluating and signing talented players who can catch the ball and throw it accurately. And just as important, these individuals are also responsible for assembling some sense of depth should injuries at key positions occur (i.e. OT, QB).

    The Whiz/Graves decision that Derek Anderson was a capable, quality QB was the beginning of the end of them for me.

  13. By Red cards on Nov 18, 2012 | Reply

    I love it whiz sad he’s going to hold people accountable when is he going hold himself accountable plz plz plz fire this jerk maybe we could get Sean Payton

  14. By SaltyFan on Nov 18, 2012 | Reply

    Maybe we should start Fitz at CB that way he at least gets the ball thrown his direction. Our defense needs to call our offense to the carpet because in actuality today the defense only gave up 16 points because one ATL td came off some sorry, lazy play by the offense. My 9 year old pee wee league team knows to play to the whistle… Our play calling is terrible, our QB play is atrocious, our O line is full of overpaid players that are under performing who they were supposed to be in the free agent market.

    Do the Cards not realize that the suck for Luck campaign was last year???

  15. By sarah on Nov 18, 2012 | Reply

    PS) Lindley looked like Will Ferell out there, striking resemblance with the helmut on ! Skelton should know that he may not be back ! If Whiz was hoping for a miracle with that QB change it backfired they got 6 more points in 3 quarters of play ! Bartel is he available ?

  16. By Cardinal on Nov 18, 2012 | Reply

    Worst loss in 37 yrs a big red fan …..defense played their azz off, offense played decent except for 3rd down [ esp. when it was short yardage needed ]. This loss is on wiz, strongly agree with rick on the pulling of skeleton .I continued to yell at him the whole game to put skelton back in . up 13-3 not time to pull skelton cuz he missed 1 throw .not the time to put a rookie qb in for his first nfl action . i dont blame him he tried his best for 1st NFL action , but we really could have won with john s in there, he has decent numbers and alot of expierience past 3 years. Hes not great but….why did wiz think he was the starter after the summer, and now 9 1/3 games later he gets benched for a rookie . And he always preaches ” who gives us beast shot to win” SKELTON surely over Lindley !!!! . Fire Wiz tomrw !!!!!!!!!!!! make Horton interim coach.Wiz has done a poor job evaluating QB position past 3 years . He released leinart to go with derek anderson at the end of preseason in 2010…after Matt watched and learned , for 2 1/2 yrs by warner !!

  17. By wnycardfan on Nov 18, 2012 | Reply

    I give Whiz some credit, he made changes, more than I thought he would and more than he’s done in the past when he said he would change things up. Wilson not in, LIndley in, etc…
    That being said, didn’t do much for the OFF> I’ll give kudo’s the the OL for helping LSH get his big yards (unless someone tells me it was all LSH). Sacks not as bad as usual. OTHER THAN THAT, OFF sucked. Someone said it, Whiz is supposed to be an offensive guy, what the heck is going on the last 3 years? QB has a lot to do with it, but no one played today other than LSH.
    DEF was great. They deserve a ton of credit. Great job. Benching Wilson was a surprise, but it looks like it worked out. Hey, perform or get the heck out.
    Not sure I liked how he pulled Skelton at that moment, but that’s what he gets paid for. Didn’t do much, and that is the sadder tale of the decision. They are stinking up the place big time. Even if they bring Wells back (and I’m doubtful he’ll much coming off his injury) its not enough. The line is still too weak, the receivers are playing at 50%, the QB is crap.

  18. By Brandon Orgeron on Nov 18, 2012 | Reply


    The only thing I think the defense could maybe do a better job is givving up less passing yards. Gay and Peterson always seem outta position and then they get burned and theres always no pass rush on those plays either. Its like qbs except for Alex Smith dont complete a lot of passes but they throw for big plays thoughts?


  19. By John on Nov 18, 2012 | Reply

    It’s quite frustrating as a fan to watch such a dominate defensive performance be squandered by an anemic passing game. I agree with Whiz’s decision to put Lindley in. The offense needed a spark, and Lindley may very well have been that spark the team needed, but today was not his day. The kid has a bright future if he can get the reps and master the offense, but for now its just a trial by fire. Changes will be coming in the offseason, and maybe even more changes to the lineup will be made before the end of the season, but right now its really a moot point and just speculation. I have confidence in Whiz, and I think we all need to have some faith in the team going forward.

    And, Darren, you’ve done an absolutely superb job of covering the team and keeping everyone up to date. Keep up the great work!

  20. By georgiebird on Nov 18, 2012 | Reply

    The outcome of the game today is unimportant-the Cardinals are going nowhere with this group -win or lose today.
    Whiz has now become an embarrassment to the Cardinals. During his post game presser you almost wanted to feel sorry for the guy. Here are some reasons Whiz should be fired immediately.
    1) Skelton was never supposed to be a savior for this team- Skelton is a stop gap until Whiz can figure out a better option-why be so vindictive in evaluating him.
    2) the Cards were ahead 13-0 when Whiz had the brainstorm to replace Skelton. This is akin the Denny Green move to replace Josh McKown with Shaun King after McKown had won 4 of 6. Whiz’ timing was horrendous and cost us the game.
    3) Skelton ended up the day with the same passer rating (40) as Matt Ryan, the star QB of the 8-1 Falcons.
    4) Matt Stafford, the star QB of the Lions has been missing Calvin Johnson all year long and had a QB rating of 54 today- a rating that was helped by a GB defender completely whiffing on an Interception attempt giving Stafford a TD.
    5) Atlanta is a good team with an excellent record-in their last 4 home games, Atlanta has beaten the the lousy Panthers, Raiders, Cowboys and Cards by a total of 15 points. Atlanta is not an elite team and will disappoint again.

  21. By D on Nov 18, 2012 | Reply

    Not sure why we have not heard anything new about an extension for the Hyphen…not sure what more he can do…

  22. By Steve on Nov 18, 2012 | Reply

    Darren: Good article, I know Whiz is staying put but I think Miller gets the pink slip this offseason as OC unless Cards pull an about face on offense the rest of the way. Do you guess that Kolb will return at some point this season and play?

  23. By Darren Urban on Nov 18, 2012 | Reply

    Steve —

    RE: Kolb

    Yes, I expect him to return at some point.

  24. By Ottis Anderson Fan on Nov 18, 2012 | Reply

    If we loose the next two, it would make an interesting situation. Fire Whiz after game 12 (4-8), promote Horton as interim coach, and see how the team responds — sorta like the Wade Phillips firing in Dallas with games left in the season that proved the team had given up on Phillips and played much better for eventual HC Jason Garret.

    Whiz would be a much better college coach than pro coach. Whiz isn’t a motivator. He’s a player’s coach who’s just too soft with the multi-millionaires at the pro level. No discipline or accountability for his players. Too stuck in his laid-back way. At least at the college level, the players are playing for the love of the game and the potential to one day to perhaps play in the NFL and make their millions then. In other words, college kids come with motivation included.

  25. By georgiebird on Nov 18, 2012 | Reply

    Very surprised that the NFL players union would allow the Steelers to wear the jailbreak uniforms tonight. Not good for the image of the league.

  26. By Patches O'Houlihan on Nov 18, 2012 | Reply

    1. Makes no sense to fire Whis and keep Graves, but the Bidwills love their loyal yes men and Graves fills the bill quite nicely.
    2. If Whis stays with a Bugelesque ultimatum, he’s got to cull the deadwood from the S.S. Whis. That includes, but is probably not limited to, Miller, Grimm and Grimm’s kid. Grimm has been outed as a fraud and Whis must wish his BFF goodbye and good luck, best for all sides. The Cardinals can get a qualified OL coach and Grimm can go off in a bid to salvage his career. Some sucker will take him on.
    3. It’s funny that poor Adrian Wilson is finally held accountable for one of his famous forearm tackles in the twilight of his career. What an overrated clown he is. Four Pro Bowls? All the more reason to trash the stupid exhibition. Remember, this is the idiot who invented a new penalty called roughing the holder in a meaningless game called the Super Bowl.
    4. Did Daryl Washington REALLY say the defense should do more? Look, Daryl you are the heart of this team (yes, he’s above Lord Fitz of Quit With No Whistle) and you don’t have to fall on ANY sword to cover for the turkeys in your midst.

  27. By chiefy on Nov 18, 2012 | Reply

    something has to give ! this is plain sad! ,were the laughin stock of the league ! and cut down but the every critic media out there ! we make History by the worst plays! this reminds me of those hot,long days at sun devil stadium ! does the defensive have to play offensive too ! Falcons try to give the game to us ! no QB ! NO LINE ! NO Running Backs ! Bad play calling !Changes are needed starting with Graves !!!!

  28. By D on Nov 18, 2012 | Reply

    We all know what needs to get done this offseason, for those of you who are confused, let me break it down this spring-
    1) Keep Horton (hopefully he won’t get a HC job, two places with his best chance will be Cleveland and Jville)
    2) Resign Hyphen.
    3) Make appropriate changes on Off coaching staff
    4) If top 10 draft spot via final record, if thier QB or top Left tackle is gone, then try to trade down to gather picks, take the best Left tackle in round one
    5) Use second round pick, (and hopefully have another in that round) by drafting a QB and a RB if they have two picks.
    6)Use 3rd round pick or picks to draft a G and either ILB or DE
    6) Cut Heap and pick up a FA TE. Try to trade Beanie around draft.
    Doubt if Kolb will be back next year at 9 mil. Skelton is a backup, Lindley is a few years away from being productive. If they can keep Horton and the defense together, even a good rookie QB would win them more games than this year…I would go after Landry Jones in Round 2 at QB

  29. By chiefy on Nov 18, 2012 | Reply

    I know its Team work !!! DANG 6 turnovers and you still LOSE !!!!!!! This is one on Whiz ‘ s lines ! Put the best Management & coaches in there position to give us the best chance to win !!! WE as FANS get the big L !!

  30. By Brandon M on Nov 18, 2012 | Reply

    Just need a better qb and possibly a new Offensive coordinator.

  31. By Kevin S on Nov 18, 2012 | Reply

    This is why I love this blog… fans demanding accountability, fans demanding changes for a team in a free fall… so the coach makes a change at one of the positions, if not THE position, where change is needed the most, and now he’s a bad coach in some people’s eyes because we threw a rookie in there in a winnable game.

    It was a move. It didn’t work out. If it did work — if Lindley had gone 13-20 and we scored some TD’s instead of FG’s on those gift-wrapped possessions in the opponent’s territory, or, for that matter, even if we hadn’t, but if Lindley’s hand had just started going forward a tenth of a second earlier on that fumble/TD — this game is a W, and people would’ve been lambasting Whiz for not trying Lindley sooner. I was as surprised as anyone when they yanked Skelton so early in the game, but you can’t argue with the fact that the offense has been anemic. I don’t think it matters whether you’re up 13-0 or down 13-0; we weren’t up 13 because of anything our QB had done, but rather in spite of it. And you know Atlanta has an explosive offense so it’s not like you can just sit there expecting to hold a 13 point lead with no offense.

  32. By Kevin S on Nov 18, 2012 | Reply

    We have now had 2 games where we held the QB to their fewest completions and yards any time this year (Bradford, 7 completions for 141 yards; Ponder, 8 for 58 yards) and now we had a game where, against one of the top-rated passers in the league, we intercepted him 5 times… and we lost all 3 of those games.

  33. By jason marcus on Nov 18, 2012 | Reply

    Hey Darren, why do you think they pulled the trigger on Skelton so soon?, did it not feel a bit hasty. I mean cmon its Skelton hes gonna make some wacky throws and some bad calls …but he just might win the game..Also were you expecting more from Lindley? be honest please,thanks

  34. By Darren Urban on Nov 18, 2012 | Reply

    Jason —

    RE: Skelton

    I addressed that above.

  35. By NJAzCardsFan on Nov 18, 2012 | Reply

    Darren- Who is faster Peterson or LSH??? Both look like they can fly…..

    If the Cards don’t make an offer to LSH to re-sign him, something is wrong with the front office.

    Grimm has done nothing to improve the lineover the last few years. Miller is horrible as the Off Coord. No QB will be decent with this line, even Manning. The Cards need wholesale changes on offense this coming offseason to be successful . Why haven’t they released Heap? He has to be one of the worst FA siginings in Cards history.

    Any chance Haley would come back?

  36. By mal on Nov 18, 2012 | Reply

    A game like this will make fans go nuts, but if you look at it in an objective manner, the Cards showed a lot of improvement with their main problems:

    -the defense tackled really well
    -special teams played much better
    -receivers stopped dropping balls
    -the run game finally took off
    -the OL showed great progress

    But now that our OL is finally opening run lanes and protecting a lot better, we dont have a QB that can take advantage of it.

    If you take this same Cards team and add a halfway average NFL QB, we would have just DOMINATED the 8-1 Falcons in their own stadium — we would have won 30+ to 16.

    Its easy to lose track in this crazy season, but we are one fairly average QB away from being a really good team. (get well soon, Kevin)

    Accurate assessment, Darren?

  37. By Darren Urban on Nov 18, 2012 | Reply

    Mal —

    RE: “good”

    I feel like I am the voice of reason often times on here. But sometimes a loss is a loss and there isn’t much good to take from it.

    Defensively they played well. Offensively, no. Even the running game … I mean, 92 yards of Hyphen’s 127 yards came on two big carries. It’s not good.

  38. By georgiebird on Nov 18, 2012 | Reply

    It’s time to stop drooling over the defense. Yes our defense is better than our offense but we’re not talking “Steel Curtain” here, by any means. Today the defense did a real good job of stopping the run and creating turnovers. But on the other side, the defense allowed a huge tie-ing field goal in 30 seconds at the end of the half. Matt Ryan still passed for 301 yds and completed 61% of his passes. While Julio Jones was hobbled, Roddy White caught 8 passes for 123 yards.
    The defense had a couple of fortuitous interceptions but yes, there were excellent intercepts by D Wash and Acho and a great fumble recovery started by Toler.
    With all the pressure, there was still only one sack.
    This was a rebound game for the defense, But we should evaluate the defense on its own merits rather than in comparison with our offense.

  39. By Horned frog on Nov 18, 2012 | Reply

    We are who we thought we were. Terrible on offense. Looks like preseason is showing it’s ugly face. We were just dumb enough to think the first four games would sustain. Turns out, the foundation was built on quicksand back in August.

  40. By Kurt on Nov 18, 2012 | Reply

    Too much we’ve been here before
    It’s not hard to understand the Cardinals plight – both starting offensive tackles go down, Starting QB goes down twice, top running backs go down. Tackling, Blocking, Catching and passing absent from time to time.
    But to feed the rookie to the wolves, kind of reminds me of Max Hall and Skelton’s rookie campaign. Skelton misses one pass and Whiz decides the Cardinals have a better chance to win with a Rookie QB after Skelton put the Cards up 13-0. Just listen to Woolley’s comments on the decision as it was happening on the radio broadcast.
    Assuming Kolb is too fragile to be considered a future NFL starting QB, and at best Ryan Lindley is years away. Why would Whiz crush Skelton’s spirit? Does Whiz believe Skelton is the root of the Cardinal’s problem? Lindley looked like a deer with his eyes caught in the headlights out there. The coaches had to know he was not ready.
    I’m not so sure Whiz’s job is all that secure. He’ll be asked all week why Skelton, why Wilson. Hopefully someone will ask him why Bartel is not on the roster.
    In Whiz I used to trust

  41. By mal on Nov 18, 2012 | Reply

    Yes, I know it looks bad, but you take this exact same game and plug in an average NFL QB who doesnt fumble for a touchdown and who can hit Fitz when he’s wide open in the endzone — just 2 plays — and then we not only win, but beat the 8-1 Falcons in Atlanta.

  42. By 4 n 12 Cards on Nov 18, 2012 | Reply

    “”Let me head off a couple of questions I will inevitably get. Yes, I think the Cards will chase someone new at quarterback this offseason.” What???? When Manning came here back in March or whenever it was they weren’t interested in a quarterback. The mentality then was lets work off our 9 wins last year and work with what we have. That worked out so well. Now after going through this predictable waste of time they will be ready to look? Is there anyone and I mean anyyyyone besides the Cards coaching staff who didn’t see this coming? Yet we waste ANOTHER year going thru this How much does anyone want to bet that after the season is completely out of reach for the playoffs and the last few games that don’t matter.. Kolb has a couple halfway decent games statistically and we go thru the off season with Whiz saying lets keep what we have and build off our last couple games? And the Cards cycle continues.

  43. By Javi on Nov 18, 2012 | Reply

    hey darren, well very disapointing loss and you know it, the problem is NOT the defense but of course the offense, The best option this club has is to trade a first round pick to the ravens in order for them to give us joe flacco, ofcourse we must be drafting in the lottery spot in order for this to happen, and then we can sign Jake Long who is a free agent this offseason do you see any of those two things happening Darren?

  44. By sarah on Nov 18, 2012 | Reply

    Two lines here that cracked me up ; SaltyFan ” maybe we should start Fitz at CB and then he gets the ball thrown his way” , another ” I am surprised the defence let the offense get on the plane ” .

    I put this loss on Whiz, at 13-3 at the end of the first he just lost it and went for the hail mary with Lindley, nice reps but it was not pre-season. His lesson should be that don’t let the emotions get the better of ya. Skelton has proven he can win and had a good previous game in GB, especially in the second half, the guy threw 7 balls and missed Fitz in the end zone ( which should not have happened being an NFL QB). Ryan was absolutely horrendous and they kept him in and they won. Lindley is worse than Max Hall, do we really need to experiment further. Kudos to the OL today, some Potter misses but way better than say SF or Miami and Minnesota.

    Skelton is like a relief pitcher, starts slow but ends well, they were up and Whiz’s move was infantile. Next series cost the Cards 7 points on a fumble.

    Losses :

    -STL , all Kolb

    -Buffalo , losing with Kolb , Skelton rallied them and Feely missed the FG thus jinxing the frigging team !!

    -Minnesota . Skelton mediocre and protection issues

    -SF , Team stunk all around especially the secondary

    -Green Bay , Skelton played well, defence porous and receivers could not hang on to ball

    -Atlanta , this one is Whiz’s loss, sure TD was left on the table early but how about the other 3 quarters, we got 6 points with the D playing lights out !!! We were up in the game until the change and Skelton saves it till the second half, I am guessing he would have gotten a couple of TD’s in the second. Thanks coach !!! Kolb great but a rookie against an 8-1 team what were you thinking !

  45. By The everlasting Kolbstopper on Nov 19, 2012 | Reply


    Why are the losses Kolb played in “all Kolb”? There were no running game issues? No offensive line issues? No gaping defensive assignments?

    If anything Kolb had been the only QB on this roster this season. Skelton didn’t just miss Fitz in the end one on “one pass” … Dude couldn’t hit receivers running 5 yard curls! literally he couldn’t hit a guy 5 yards in front of him! And I am not just talking about Sundays game, I’m talking ALL SEASON! Skeltons inaccuracy is what got him benched, not to mention he is turnover prone. Those of you saying “Skelton got us a 13-0 lead” didn’t watch the game. Darren could have been playing QB and would have gotten pulled at the exact same moment with a 13-0 lead.

  46. By Credit Card on Nov 18, 2012 | Reply

    Just becuse a Ferrari has more horse power than a CJ-7 Jeep, does not mean you go 4-wheeling with the Ferrari. The Cards offense is built on doing quick reads and doing their multiple check-downs to their receivers. All three QB’s are in-capable of doing quick reads, and the O-line is so awful — it’ll never happen with anyone out there. This is a philosphical mis-management error by the coaching staff. The type of QB that would compliment the O-line and the receiver core is the type of QB who can scamble, buy-time, and create. I mentioned last spring, the Cards needed to draft RGIII — at that time he was projected to be a mid-first rounder. They need to look at mobile QB’s. In the same breath, they also need to replace their intereior two guards. Potter will be capable at left tackle, hopefully Massie will improve over the off-season. Move Levi Brown to left guard. I’ll repeat myself, Tebow has the correct skill set to improve the Cards. His passing mechanics are poor, but he can scramble, take a hit, and wear down a defense (makes a defense chase him through-out a game). I don’t see any college QB’s that will improve the Cards. I would think having three different types of QB’s on the roster can create mis-match opportunities, rather than three clones, another philospophical error by the coaching staff.

  47. By Sackman on Nov 18, 2012 | Reply

    All I got to say is the Coach lost the game for us this time, Bad Bad choice to give up so early on Skelton. Now I can officially say the Coach lost the game. I have never said not even one bad thing about the coach ever. 13-0 lead and no interceptions. I would of waited until we were losing or at least until the 2nd half. All I can say is WOW!!!

  48. By azfiremagoo on Nov 18, 2012 | Reply

    Moral victory! yeah! pathetic with the turnovers to not win this. Sorry but there is no answer until we get a future franchise QB, and he’s not on our roster right now

  49. By Patrick Eagan on Nov 18, 2012 | Reply

    I am not sure if the move to bench Skelton is the right choice…If Skelton makes that throw to Fitzgerald, the game is completely different. If that was even in consideration, why wasn’t lindley getting some of the snaps during practice this week. I really do love Ken Whisenhunt. However, this has been 3 years since Kurt Warner’s been gone. Nothing seems to be working on offense. Mike Miller should be cut… We need Todd Haley back. I do think Kevin Kolb can be the guy in the offense. I am just so sick of this result. I am expecting a lot of changes by the end of the year honestly… Because honestly it looks like were going to lose the rest of the games… One thing that really bothers me about kevin kolb though is his inability to stay healthy. This is huge reason for concern.

  50. By OKCARDSGO on Nov 18, 2012 | Reply

    Just watched the game. Lindley missed a couple of long throws by inches, can be corrected with more familiarity with receivers. Noticed that Potter looked inside at the snap on pass plays. That momentary pause was enough to give the DE a head start and made it more difficult for Potter to pick him up. Last game, Potter just stepped right out to pick up Matthews, who is quicker than Abraham, with better results. So, is this an example of the Grimm pass blocking technique? Potter needs to get back to what he did last week. When folks on the NFL channel about team’s offense, they show how they attacked the defense. I don’t see our OC doing that, he just calls plays. Hope Whiz thinks about a whole new offensive coatching staff for next year. I did see encouraging signs, if Potter returns to “his” techniques, and Lindley gets more familiar with his receivers. Maybe some overtime work by QB and receiver corps. We should have won today by 4. Go Cards!!

  51. By redbirdman on Nov 18, 2012 | Reply

    For those who think Whisenhunt should be given another chance in 2013 is just asking for more mediocrity. He’s a loser as is Grimm.

    We need to clean house with all coaches except Horton.

    As for the draft we’ll have a top ten pick for sure maybe a top five. If Manti Teo is available we should take him as Paris Lenon will be 36 years old next year. Or take one of the many edge rushers that will be available. We could also take a quality tackle and a quality running back as Beanie and Williams are not durable enough to play a sixteen game schedule.

  52. By SeeingRed on Nov 18, 2012 | Reply

    Ouch. This one really hurt…although going into the game I wasn’t so sure the Cards would be up to the task of beating ATL on the road…especially given their recent post bye history etc. In any case…

    This team has had some of the worst luck this season with injuries. Tackles, QB’s, RB’s and Heap can NEVER stay healthy..has he had surgery btw? he could have had surgery AND rehab by now.

    Early in the season the tackles have been the biggest issue but now with Kolb out it is the QB play. In my opinion we have our QB in Kolb but we need a better OLine with more quality depth. With a healthy Beanie and Williams next season we can have a good offense but we have to get that Oline shored up. No need going nuts looking for that once in a decade QB. If we had landed Manning he would prob be on IR right now.
    Get Lindley some playing time and serve Skelton his final notice but overall I think u need to stay with all 3 QB’s unless REAL quality becomes available. I understood pulling Skelton today but still thought it a little premature-especially considering the game JS had against GB.

    Whiz is NOT the problem and not so sure Grimm is either and both should stay. Whomever is making the decision to draft lineman so late in the draft maybe needs to go.

    Overall, a good game played by AZ but we miss Kolb in the worst way right now.

  53. By bluepitt on Nov 18, 2012 | Reply

    Buckle up Cards fans!!! Yes Im saying this…..I watched the fire I witnessed in 2008 in whiz’s eyes, you remember when he had the team out in the rain working after the Philly smack down!!!!! FINALLY!!!!, we will see a winner once more here in the desert!!! Mark my words! Skelton couldnt hit a bull in the azz with a scoop full of rice today! Lindley was the right choice! I dont care if we were up 13-3 Skelton was under throwing, over throwing and what ever elts you can do wrong at QB!!!
    People say that Wells wont matter? You put him in LSH’s shoes today and we run for 250+ yards and can punch it in for the 1st downs and TD’s!!! I cant wait till KOLB is back and Wells gets rolling! Then we will se some good Ball!!!!

  54. By bluepitt on Nov 18, 2012 | Reply

    really Skelton was 2 of 7 for 6 yards with a .9yard average!!! He missed a huge play to a wide open Fitz, a throw even a high school QB can make!!!!!!!
    you say “Skelton has proven he can win” when did he do this? and don’t say last year!!! if it wasn’t for the D and PP skelton looses almost all of those games last year!!!! Fact 11TD’s to 14 int’s says it all! “Next series cost the Cards 7 points on a fumble.” it sure did you can blame that one on the O line & all of the cards standing next to the ball that didn’t pick it up! #11 was the closest and just ran off the field!

    Your losses are just rediculooooous!!!!
    STL you say all kolb? hahaha but then site protection issues for Skelton in the Vikes game? hahahahhaha!!!!! GIVE IT UP lets see this year Skelton in 5 (6 real games played) games 2 TD’s 5Int’s!!!!!! KOLB 5 real games played 8TD’s 3INT’s hahahahhaa IM laughing you out of here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  55. By Dre on Nov 18, 2012 | Reply

    Darren what can I say that you haven’t heard? Whiz blew it big time you dont make that move not at that time your leading the game. The play calling is bad bad bad. Miller has to join his bother out of this league. Make the qb coach the oc for the rest of the year. I cant believe how easy it is to defend the offense on the second play of the first drive play action would of put 7 on the board. I’m glad the d played good but at the end of the game you feel sad for them. they hand the game to the offense and they do what they do best nothing. To many check downs by the rookie and Whiz make the switch at the dumbest time if I were the owner he be gone and miller and grim and graves. But I’m still mad but if I know the plays were going to run before were doing them. Something has to be done

  56. By dan on Nov 19, 2012 | Reply

    I was surprised to see Lindley go in so soon. I would have let Skelton finish up the 1st half and put Lindley in the 2nd half. Other than that, everybody played good today except for the WR’s and Skelton. I thought Lindley made some great deep throw that should have been caught. Defense played great, offensive line played good enough to win and even the special teams played pretty good. Our passing games sucked and our receivers did not step up their game…………..PERIOD.

  57. By inthecards87 on Nov 19, 2012 | Reply

    You’re up 13-0 and you pull the starter? Whiz should have been fired on the spot and there should be no hotter coaching seat in the NFL right now that his. Stick with Lindley and at least give your experiment a chance to complete itself becuase if you make another change it will be even more obvious you have no idea what you are doing. It is painfully obvious that Kurt Warner was leading and coaching the offense in the not too far removed glory days and without him Whizenhunt would have been fired long ago. He can’t coach his way out of a paper bag and all those who disagree think of your outrage following Denny Green’s Monday Night Meltdown. Cards got 6 takeaways in that game too and found a way to lose because bad coaching.

    Nothing against the players (especially the lights out defense…championship caliber) but they are not succeeding because they have bad coaching. Ray Horton needs to be promoted to HC by the start of next season and the entire offensive coaching staff (including Whizenhunt and Grimm) need to be sent packing and a new offensive coordinator and scheme need to be brought in.

    Honestly I feel letting Whiz go will be good for the players too as I am sure their frustation is at an all time (especially defense) and the clowns with clipboards have turned a fantastic start into another disappointing season. Whiz better pray Kolb is miraculously healed by next week and can win the next 6 games. If that doesn’t happen he shouldn’t have a job in AZ next year. Done.

  58. By Madriffs on Nov 19, 2012 | Reply

    Once again…This O-line still cannot pass protect. The running game is getting better but the O-Coordinator is predictable. I have preached draw plays for a long time but every other down is just silly. There were a few passes missed by the receivers that would have been game changers, but all in all. I think the Cards played very well considering they were facing the Falcons in the Georgia Dome. Give the Defense some props kids, (bad*ss). I hope they don’t put this loss on Lindley. For the record, Skelton blew it so stop hating on Whiz.

  59. By Matthew on Nov 19, 2012 | Reply

    Darren, I know you are going to come up with some sarcastic answer for me but here it is. I have watched this Cardinals offense and have realized, well eh, confirmed they cannot be fixed this year. Yes we all want Kolb to come back, but the fact is he has been injured every time he has been named the starter of a team. Now here is why I am so angry; When we are up 13-0 regardless of how your qb is playing, why do you make that change? I honestly don’t care how John was playing, he easily gave us a better chance to win than Lindley and quite frankly it was just stupid, I really have doubts that Whiz wants to get us back to the playoffs because of such a stupid move and I watch the Cardinals every Sunday and just look at them as a freaking circus now. What else does our defense have to do? How many more times are we the punch line of the NFL before we fix this? I love the way our defense played and could give less a crap about the last drive TD; if someone cant forgive them for that after all they after the TD that our offense gave up. Plus I watch Fitz and everyone knows even though everyone tries to hide it and conceal it in interviews that he is angry, frustrated, upset, mad, heart broken, and just a man torn to pieces now; So, why don’t we trade him? Why don’t we give the man a chance to win and rebuild what we have? IDK if that is dumb or I am talking like an idiot but there has to be some point where our organization has respect for the guy and gives him to a winning team like the packers, or even the lions would be great. Then we get maybe 2 first rounders and start rebuilding. Yes it will take a couple of years but look at what the jets did with Mark Sanchez in his first 2 years. Given he didn’t develop but say we got a Matt Barkley who just is a more natural football player than Sanchez and what we could do. Go ahead rip on me if you will but I have been a Cardinals fan for so long and I just wish we would have never gone to the Superbowl so I wouldn’t have tasted what being a winning franchise is like; that way I would just watch this game and say “oh, that is just the same old Cardinals” and continue on with my day not wasted. Thank you

  60. By Rugbymuffin on Nov 19, 2012 | Reply

    Smell that ?

    Smells like


  61. By Christo on Nov 19, 2012 | Reply

    Why would we go after a QB?

    Kolb has proven he can do the job when he isn’t injured. Why does he get injured? Oh Yeah, WORST OFFENSIVE LINE and OFFENSIVE LINE COACH in the league.

    Whisenhunt’s move with Lindley is just icing on the cake for this ridiculous coach.

    THREE straight SEASONS with a SIX GAME or LONGER LOSING skid.

    New Coach please, new OC please, new Assistant Coach please.

  62. By Corgon on Nov 19, 2012 | Reply

    I hope we’ll give a contract to the Hyphen next year. He’s not an every down back, that was always clear, but in some plays he’s a valuable and dangerous weapon He need good designd plays and a just a bit of open space and boom. He’s fast, he can cath and run, but what he can’t is carrying a team’s inside run through a game. He just can’t. No shame, no blame, but can’t. 20 carries for 35 yard. That’s not his fault. Obviously he can’t go to the edge all the time. The OC has to send him few times throgh the gaps, but not that many. I can’t believe, they still don’t get it.
    I like Whiz and i understand he’s the head of the staff and he don’t want to rip his guys before the camera, but after the GB game, he said that goal line inside run was a good decision, but poor implementation. Not true. Don’t say anything or say that was a mistake. As he sidelined Skelton, he should Miller as well.

  63. By Cardinal's Chick on Nov 19, 2012 | Reply

    I was there to see that game in person…probably the only person in the Dome with #24’s jersey on except for the man himself. I’m not going to complain about all of the things that obviously were wrong. The defense did a fantastic job exposing the Falcon’s…they did not beat us…we beat ourselves (play doesn’t stop until the whistle is blown!!!)…and that is the very thing that makes this loss harder to bear than the blow out we suffered the last time I watched the Card’s play in the Dome.

    *sigh*….despite it all…I love my Arizona Cardinal’s!!!

  64. By JohnfromOz on Nov 19, 2012 | Reply

    Geez – that 50% winning percentage is looking good now! Good players can make a bad coach look good, but a bad coach will never make mediocre players look anything but mediocre.
    Third string quarterback, fourth string coach, tenth string conformance. This team has gone from mediocre to bad to very bloody bad.

  65. By MIKE G on Nov 19, 2012 | Reply

    Hey Darren–Hope all is good! Tough loss for the Card’s yesterday. Thought the defense played great. Liked what I saw from O-line and Hyphen today in the run game. Don’t know if I ever saw a team win the turnover battle 6 to 1 and lose the football game. I didn’t agree with the benching of Skelton at that point of the game. If we were down 13-3 and started bad I could see it but with the lead I think it is a tough environment to go with Lindley at that point. Skelton did get the team in the end zone on the first possesion. John is what he is –a slow starter and I guess you have to live with that. Lack of stability at the QB position is hurting the team right now. Football is a crazy game –if somehow Fitz catches that ball in the closing moments and the Card’s take it in–Whiz is a genious for making the QB change and everyone is happy.Looking forward to getting Beanie back next week against the Rams. Hey Darren–the inability of the Card’s Qb’s to get Fitz the ball consistently(thrown at 7–1 catch) I believe is the biggest problem this offense faces going forward!! Do you think this can improve over the final 6 games regardless of who plays Qb????

  66. By Mark on Nov 19, 2012 | Reply

    I’m sorry but to send a message Whiz and Grimm need to be fired today. There is no way around it. They don’t know what they are doing. They have destroyed this team. Let our defensive coach run the team the rest of the year. For the offense, every time a ball is dropped, $10,000 fine. Every fumble, $10,000 fine. Missed pass, $10,000. Maybe then they will realize what there job is when they are playing for free. Another season wasted by poor coaching, poor player choices in the off season and poor efforts by the team. The Defense rocks! With 5 interceptions, we should have won by 30 points, instead, we give the win away because the offense sucks!

  67. By Nick Pepe on Nov 19, 2012 | Reply

    Sick to my stomach. You can’t lose a game with 6 takeaways. Simply can’t.

    Worst Monday morning ever.

    I miss you Kevin Kolb. Never thought I’d say that……

    Nick Pepe
    Lifetime Member

  68. By Kevin on Nov 19, 2012 | Reply

    Sarah, please. Your defense of Skelton is embarrassing. I agree, Lindley was not good. But first you say the STL game was “all Kolb.” This is despite 9 sacks let up by our O-line, despite having NO running game (only 45 rushing yards), despite ZERO interceptions in 50 passes (when was the last time we said that about Skelton), and despite a completion % of 56% (if that’s a terrible game where you blame it all on the QB, well… Skelton’s CAREER completion % is 53%).

    Buffalo — if you’re going to point out Skelton led the drive for the potential GW FG, you kinda have to point out that he threw a horrible INT to lose it in OT after the defense held, don’t you?

    And now you are basically throwing the towel in on Lindley after ONE game — actually, no, about 2 1/2 quarters of one game — for going 9 for 20. “Worse than Max Hall” and “do we need to experiment further”? Skelton was 15 for 37 in his first game, followed by 17 for 33, followed by 11 for 25… I guess we experimented quite a while. You’re “guessing” Skelton would have gotten a couple TD’s in the second half. Well, I can just as easily say he would’ve thrown a pick 6 in the 2nd quarter if we’d left him in, and done nothing in the 2nd half. He is NOT THAT GOOD. Was I surprised by the change? Sure. But I don’t see how you can fault the coach for trying.

    And we can’t just keep giving Skelton a pass on horrible starts, saying he gets better. If we have to wait for the 2nd half (or 4th quarter) of every game for him to be at least average, then he doesn’t belong on the team, much less as the starter.

  69. By BeatSF on Nov 19, 2012 | Reply

    D giving up the field goal w/ 37 seconds left in the first half hurt.

  70. By Ruben on Nov 19, 2012 | Reply

    i cannoit believe that coach Wise-n-up pulled John Skelton and put the rookie Lindley in. Yes Skelton was not making a lot of his passes, but he did not lose the game, once Lindley came in, it changed the mind set and dynamic of the team. john usually gets better towards the end of the game. when coach made the decision to put Lindley in, it cost us the game, we had a 10 point lead. i think it is time for a coach that will work the players hard, so they can be mentally and physically prepared for all games. Really dissappointed with the francise. Will we ever have a team that can consistently win or at least bounce back after one or a couple of loses

  71. By Kevin S on Nov 19, 2012 | Reply

    Georgiebird —

    It’s not the Steel Curtain but it is the strength of the team. Up until now you’ve been posting that the defense is essentially terrible and the “true” problem with the team, and acting like Horton should be fired.

    Matt Ryan passed for 300 yards… so what? He does that, or close to that, in most games. (In fact, when he doesn’t it’s usually because they have a lead and can coast). 61% of his passes? So what? Even Kolb completes close to 60% and everyone thinks he’s awful. You’re talking about one of the best QB’s in the league.

    When we can’t even win the time of possession battle in a game where we have 6 turnovers, there’s a problem and it ain’t the defense.

  72. By TM on Nov 19, 2012 | Reply

    I used to trust Whiz’s coaching style, but after this game I really am doubting him. His philosophy of playing the players that give us the best chance to win…… Really, he thought Lindley would give us the best chance to win over Skelton being in the game? His message to the team and his lesson to Skelton, and Wilson for that matter, was not the way to go so early in the game in my opinion. Really think the Cardinals could have won that game if coached differenty. I believe in accountability, but that should lie with the coaching staff as well.

  73. By Red cards on Nov 19, 2012 | Reply

    Kevin s I’m not mad that he put lindy in I’m pissed that he’s so stubborn that he wouldn’t put skelton back in if I see him on the golf corse I’m going to smack him in the bald head and say duh thanks for the loss

  74. By cardsalltheway on Nov 19, 2012 | Reply

    Moose Johnson/commentary/announcer said he was surprised we have had a problem running the ball since it appeared as though we were doing well. He just doesn’t watch us every week to know how little Ken W. has chosen to run. The question is will Ken W. again turn his back on the running game next week or in the near future as we’ve all seen him do before even though he’s unable to coach up our QB’s for how many years now? Come to think of it our TE’s haven’t done much either, total catches today = 0.
    Cardinal Stats…
    Avg. 5.3 yards per run(26 attempts)
    Avg. 1.4 yards per catch(11/27)
    Cardinal First Downs 7
    Falcon First Downs 20
    Cardinal Sacks 1 for -5 yards.
    Falcon Sacks 3 for -29 yards = 44 total season sacks against us.

  75. By HunterSThompson on Nov 19, 2012 | Reply

    Hi Darren,
    As usual, great coverage and insight – thanks. A couple of questions:

    Last week the soundbite of Whiz getting a bit testy with a reporter asking about Campbell’s injury “before” it was officially reported by the team seemed uncharacteristically short-tempered, even for him. What were your impressions of that exchange?

    The reason I ask is that at that moment it seemed like Whiz was overreacting to the pressure he must be feeling, which can often lead someone to make hasty/snap decisions not in their best interests. In my opinion, the pulling of Skelton yesterday at that particular moment seemed to be another example of the normally calculating and calm Whiz letting his emotions run the show…with potentially disasterous results. Do you see a connection/shift in attitude from Whiz?

  76. By Darren Urban on Nov 19, 2012 | Reply

    Hunter S —

    RE: Questions

    1) That is frequently Whiz’s reaction to injury questions. He isn’t fond of talking about injuries. He feels it puts the Cards at a competitive disadvantage, while reporters have to ask the questions. It makes for some uncomfortable exchanges sometimes.

    2) The injury thing has been the same since the division-winning days. That has not changed. Now, is there pressure when you are losing? Sure. He’s only human. But the way the change went down makes me thing the change was a lot more calculated than people think. The guy has an engineering degree. He doesn’t do anything without thinking it through very deliberately.

  77. By cardsalltheway on Nov 19, 2012 | Reply

    The TE(Jimmy Graham) for New Orleans torched the Falcons last week but we put up a goose egg. Nothing like attacking their weakness aye!

  78. By Kevin S on Nov 19, 2012 | Reply

    Kurt —

    “… after Skelton put the Cards up 13-0.” Huh?

    What did Skelton do to give us a 13-0 lead? Nothing. He handed the ball off twice to LSH to give us a 7-0 lead after the D put us on the 9. The next drive, an LSH run puts us on the ATL 30… he completes a one-yard pass to Floyd and an incompletion in the next set of downs, and we kick a FG. Then after 2 straight 3-and-outs, we get another INT on the ATL 18… this is the one where he misses the pass to Fitz, and again we can’t even get a first down much less a TD. So another FG. At that point he’s 2-7 for 6 yards. Yeah, he had a lot to do with that 13-0 lead.

  79. By The everlasting Kolbstopper on Nov 19, 2012 | Reply

    Kevin S

    I just want to thank you for being an actual smart commenter on these posts. Everything you state is backed with stats and numbers. Things easily measurable, while everyone else cites “if this would have happened then that would of happened.” Really?

  80. By HunterSThompson on Nov 19, 2012 | Reply

    Hi Darren,

    I would also like to hear your impressions/assesment of Ray Horton’s “buzz” around the league as a potential head coaching candidate, for THIS upcoming offseason. Is it a legit proposition in the eyes of others outside the valley? Do you get a sense from him that it is something HE definitely wants as well?

    The reason I ask is that I am not one of those ready to fire Whiz just yet…BUT – to have Ray Horton in house and let him leave with so much uncertainty in our own head coaching position is a scary prospect. Whiz goes into his last contract year next season and it seems obvious that the Bidwills will want to give him that season to earn a new contract. Fair enough…..but how can we keep Ray Horton around for one more season in case that does not go so well?

    Truth is, the offensive side of the ball has slid since Haley/Warner left…and is at best still a “work in progress”. The traditionally average-poor Cards defense has been transformed in 1.5 years and only one offseason into a top-10 (or better) force in the NFL. Surely much of that (on both sides) has to be coaching. If Horton can accomplish that, what might he do with the rest of the team? If we let him walk and the Cards sink further next season, this organization will be in SERIOUS trouble.

    How can we keep Ray Horton AND give Whiz one more season to get this thing figured out?

  81. By Darren Urban on Nov 19, 2012 | Reply

    Hunter S —

    RE: Horton

    I don’t know what will happen with Horton. Teams don’t usually chase coordinators from teams with bad records. But if someone wants Horton, there isn’t much that can be done about it.

  82. By The everlasting Kolbstopper on Nov 20, 2012 | Reply


    But teams DO need to interview minority candidates and I’d assume Horton is on the short list for that.

  83. By Darren Urban on Nov 20, 2012 | Reply

    Kolbstopper —

    RE: Minority candidates

    Yes, you are right on that. And unless the Cards make Horton HC, they can’t do anything to prevent him from leaving to be HC, so all this talk about “signing him to an extension” is moot.

  84. By David Magee on Nov 19, 2012 | Reply

    The first thing that needs to happen after the last game of the season is for the Cardinals to clean house at Quarterback. This team can be a contender but somebody has to lead them down the field. Pro Football is about scoring points not three and outs ! With Jim Hart,Charlie Johnson or Kurt Warner at quarterback the Cardinals would be sitting at 8-2 at worst. Arizona has to find a big time quarterback.

  85. By Cert 33 on Nov 19, 2012 | Reply

    I guess I must have been watching a different game than some of the other posters. First, let me say kudos to the defense. They played on a true high intensity, playoff caliber level. I am also surprised that they allowed the offense on the plane home with them. I am surprised that Whiz found the courage to bench some of the worst offenders on the offense. Skelton’s accuracy problems have been with him ALL season and have shown NO sign of improving. Even though Lindley was clearly uncomfortable and not “settled in”, his passes were far more accurate than anything thrown by Skelton. I believe that if Kolb can somehow remain healthy with a decent offensive line, he is a playoff caliber QB, at least as good as Jake Plummer. Not a Super Bowl caliber QB but good enough to win the NFC West. Fellow fans, we need to face the fact that if the Cards don’t offer Ray Horton the Head Coach position, about 5 other teams will. It’s that simple. Either kick Whiz upstairs or dump him (and hope Horton will take the position). Horton will tailor the offense to compliment the defense. Big, quick, offensive line and upper level run game. Lots of first downs and rest for the defense. That’s how you keep Kolb healthy, by letting him throw off of a legitimate play-action offense.

  86. By HunterSThompson on Nov 19, 2012 | Reply

    One last thing –

    Is there really any point in any/all of us on these blogs speculating about the Cards need for a new GM? Does Rod Graves have the close relationship/trust/security with the younger Bidwill that he obviously had with the elder? If so, it makes it quite hard to realistically discuss trades needed, free agents to be pursued, talent evaluation, etc. when the status quo at the GM position is firmly entrenched for the foreseeable future.

    Is Michael Bidwill a “football guy” or a “businessman”? Neither is bad, but one is most interested in winning and doing whatever it takes to make that happen, while the other tempers that drive with managerial practicalities and the maintenance of organizational structure.

    Sorry for the flood of questions! It just seems like the Cards problems on the field (past,present, and future) are symptomatic of organizational imbalance, rather than “play execution”. Am I wrong? As always, thanks for your input.

  87. By jocards on Nov 19, 2012 | Reply

    I know it does no good to complain about calls but that TD on the Lindley “fumble” was just another example of how this league works. It seems like the Cardinals are viewed by the league much like the Harlem Globetrotters opponent used to be….whatever they were called on that day, they are there to be the losing team. Bad call on the field so they go to replay and the call stands? This is NOT how the system was supposed to work…or at least that’s what we were led to believe. I know the Cardinals passing game did next to nothing, etc. ,etc. but in my opinion it is absolutely absurd to believe that all teams are playing on a level playing field….That was a bad call and regardless of when it occurred it was a game changer. I’m watching Bonanza reruns next Sunday. At least they make no pretense about the outcome not being pre determined….I’m extremely frustrated with this sort of thing. Obviously the Cardinals are not a good team but when they have to beat their opponent and the officials it makes it nearly impossible.

  88. By jocards on Nov 19, 2012 | Reply

    @ HunterSThompson –
    Ever since the days when this organization was playing in St. Louis there have been only two constants, losing and the Bidwill family. We are talking about a large sample size here. I’d say there is no question which side of the “football guy/businessman” fence Bidwill falls on just like his father before him and his grandfather before him….If putting a winning team on the field were a top priority for the Bidwill family then they’d have to be viewed as colossal failures (4 division titles in their entire history?)….However folks that have amassed the kind of fortune the Bidwill family has can hardly be viewed as failures…They are businessmen and their top priority clearly is not winning on the field.

  89. By truths4all on Nov 19, 2012 | Reply


    Now that the outcome of the game has been decided, it gives us the perfect opportunity to review the benching of Skelton for Lindley.

    First, it was a desperation move by Whiz. When he removed Skelton, the Cards were winning. With Lindley,as QB, the Cards lost. His fumble (sure that was a home call – argue with the NFL that it was wrong, but that call stands) cost the Cards the game.

    Second, Whiz’s desperation move told the rest of the team that he was panicking and gave up on a player who had a winning starting record before this season in favor of a totally unproven rookie who did not make any of the plays he needed to win.

    Third, the players all know Skelton starts slow, but then manages to play better in the 3rd and 4th quarters, usually putting together some good strings of passes. Whiz denied Skelton and the team that possibility even though they had the lead at the time of benching.

    Fourth, the team now knows Whiz has given up on the season tby gambling to play an unproven rookie who now shown he was not able to produce any meaningful passes in a winnable game. Make no mistake, the team knows all of this, especially that LIndley could not produce in 3+ quarters and finished this game as a loser. Complain all you want about Skelton, but Lindley did noting to avert the loss so benching Skelton was a failed gamble by Whiz and reeks of real desperation.

    With as bad as Skelton was at the beginning, his NFL track record indicates he would play better in the second half, just like he did at Green Bay. With Lindley, he is unproven and remains unproven.

    All of the national sports talk shows as well as Tony Dungy and others of the Sunday Night Football show have shaken their heads and wonder why Whiz panicked and made this bad decisiion to bench Skelton in favor of Lindley (as proven by Lindley not making any plays to win the game – and do not continue to be hypocrites to keep blaming the receivers in stead of Lindley when you Skelton Haters never give Skelton that excuse). Look at Lindley’s completion rate and you find that its the same rate he had in college. His poor accuracy is the very reason why he was not drafted any earlier by any other team.

    The Cards only had two QBs to play yesterday. As bad as Skelton looked early on, he was their best chance at QB to get a win. Argue hot air all you want Skelton Haters, but the proof is Lindley did nothing to help the Cards win and his fumble was their losing margin.

  90. By georgiebird on Nov 19, 2012 | Reply

    @ Kevin S.
    Glad you agree with me. Ryan got the completion % and the yardage he gets against other teams. Never said the defense was terrible. Defense played well yesterday and not well the past three games. D got a few breaks yesterday on tipped balls and the Toler out of bounds recovery..
    Too many people on this site think the defense is great- I don’t. In comparison to our offense, the defense is very good but that’s not saying much.
    And how many fumbles and interceptions has our great defense returned for TDs this year??
    And yes, I don’t like Ray Horton’s 3-4 defense- it’s not a fit for this team.

  91. By Tucson Cardinal on Nov 19, 2012 | Reply

    Hard times.

    Defense was awesome, and stephens-howling had a good game.

    I’m going to the Rams game on Sunday, stoked.

    Don’t give up Cards, it’s not over yet.

  92. By suspence716 on Nov 19, 2012 | Reply

    whiz has an engineering degree, so he should try to engineer a way to clean out his desk and get out of town. The guy inherited denny greens team that whiz took to the super bowl. What has he done with that team since? He couldn’t get along with boldin so trade him for fourth rd pick, it was reported antrell rolle wasnt a big fan of whiz either. Just let dansby go too and lets get rid of duece lutui cuz i think he’s too fat and let mike gandy go too cuz we dont really need an OL in the NFL. Hand picked Derek anderson for his new QB, then when that failed hand picked Kolb, both have been busts. He has kept around his buddy russ grimm and throughout the last five years took a top five offense and turned it into the absolute worst in the NFL. Show me a single move that whiz has made in his coaching tenure that has made an impact on this team…….Cuz I can’t think of one. You can’t blame the bidwill’s, they have had whiz’s back n made the personnel decisions that whiz asked for. I would still like to commend whiz and his staff for passing up on adrian peterson and drafting levi brown cuz that was just another amazingly engineered decision.

  93. By john the draft guy on Nov 19, 2012 | Reply


    There is “0” percent chance that either of those things would happen.

    Why on earth would the Ravens trade Flacco? Who would be there QB if they did? The Ravens aren’t a young team and there is no way they are starting over. If there was a rookie QB so good in the draft, the ravens would deal Flacco to get him, why would WE make that deal? We would take the rookie. So chances are zero, nada, none.

    Teams don’t win without a QB. Even with 6 turnovers.

    As for Jake Long, just because he is a free agent doesn’t mean he is available. The Dolphins are building with a rookie QB. The last thing you want to do is not protect the blindside of your franchise. If they cant get a deal, he will be franchised. Again, zero chance he hits the market.

  94. By Doug Woiwod on Nov 19, 2012 | Reply

    Only the Cardinals, 5 interceptions, and lose. Pathetic.

  95. By Campbells on Nov 19, 2012 | Reply

    How does Ken stand in front of the media, and continuously deflect blame on his players? His staff assembled this team. They sat on their hands through free-agency, and the draft, when they should’ve been upgrading the O-line. No other team went 10 games in, before establishing a running game. Why are our running backs so small? How do the Steelers end up with a power back like Dwyer? Stop making Skelton your scape-goat. Alex smith almost went to the Superbowl with mediocre play. Kolb is no better, and certainly not worth the price paid. We should’ve kept the $$$, Cromartie, and draft picks. Ken’s demeanor during the latest press conference is telling. He looks like the kid caught with his hand in the cookie jar. He knows he messed-up, but he’s not man enough to admit it. The most “Vanilla:” offense out there. No imagination, or creativity. Won’t renew my season tix, while this staff is still in place. Ready for a staff that understands how to put winning talent on the field. Ready for a staff that will be accountable for success, as well as failure. Nobody’s perfect, but Ken sure thinks his staff is!!!!

  96. By Kevin S on Nov 19, 2012 | Reply

    All of you people mad about Skelton getting pulled are posting as if Skelton got benched for missing one pass. Someone above pointed out the Falcons left Ryan in there even though he was struggling. Yeah, no kidding… that’s because the dude is a proven NFL QB, 30-4 at home, has a lifetime QBR of 90, and several of the INT’s were just lucky tips anyway. Skelton didn’t get benched for missing one pass… it was the straw that broke the camel’s back, but isn’t that how it always is with any decision? There is a point where you say, enough. Sure, if Skelton completes that pass, he doesn’t come out… but sooner or later, if you keep missing, you get benched. In baseball, if a guy is 2 for his last 25 and then he’s 0-3 in the next game and finally gets pinch-hit for, no one says “What, he gets taken out for a pinch-hitter just because he’s 0 for 3?” It’s that he’s 2-28 that leads to the benching. That’s just how it is. Funny thing is, many people have said that Kolb lost the starting job because of one pass (the INT he threw to open the 2nd half in his last preseason game, just after looking good earlier). Again, that may have been the deciding factor, but it’s not like one pass did him in; it was the entire body of work.

  97. By Kevin S on Nov 19, 2012 | Reply

    Truths4all —

    And all those same pundits would’ve been talking about what a great move it was to put in Lindley if we had won the game. Everyone is a genius with the benefit of hindsight. It is SO easy to pile on the coach when the move doesn’t work. But the “fans” on this blog have been piling on him for NOT making moves, so he’s pretty much screwed either way as far as some of you are concerned.

  98. By Mike on Nov 19, 2012 | Reply

    Why not take a chance on a QB like Vince Young or Donovan McNabb?

  99. By Mike P on Nov 19, 2012 | Reply

    Whiz will be coaching here in 2013? I certainly hope not! This man is incapable of making the tough decisions required by a head coach, and he’s incapable of evaluating talent. Get rid of Whisenhunt AND Graves, and that takes care of most of the assistants as well. Keep Horton, and fire the rest. To even entertain the thought of Whiz being here in 2013 is a stomach-turning notion. This man can’t coach, never could, and should have been canned more than a year ago, Darren.

  100. By Az Cards Chick on Nov 19, 2012 | Reply

    I say we cement Ray Horton as our head coach before another team steals him from us. The man is brilliant! I agree that Whiz had to try Lindley, but him timing was not the best. We were winning. I know Skeleton missed a wide open Fitz, but we all know that Skeleton is a very slow starter. Most likely, he would have been fine in the second half.
    I agree with a previous comment, Lindley’s suppose of interception was a horrible call. I would like just one call to go our way occassionally.

    Final thought again – Horton for head coach!!

  101. By Campbells on Nov 19, 2012 | Reply

    Funny that Skelton-haters support pulling him after 7-passes. 7-passes without a turnover, or fumble. Who does that? Nobody does that!!! If you really know the game, and the history of the game, you could not support that thought process. Want to ruin a quarterback? Pull him after a few missed throws. Tell him, that his performance is being closely scrutenized, and he’ll be yanked for marginal play. Spend $35 million (and give-up players/draft picks) on his replacement, even though the replacement is no better. I know why the Steelers let you go. You don’t have people skills. You can’t make a player better than he already is. You have no accountability. Your solution is to point fingers at the talent, while you and your staff side-step the fact that you can’t mold winners. Your priorities are messed-up. Draft a receiver that rarely plays, in favor of ensuring we have a line that can run, and pass-block. Our defense is good, but fundamentals need to be worked on. Linebackers struggle with pass coverage. DB’s rarely jam receivers. Those are issues that good teams will exploit. Can’t wait to see this staff go. Even our Superbowl run came after a mediocre season. Things are worse without Warner, but we had significant issues when he was here.

  102. By Travis on Nov 19, 2012 | Reply

    Fire Whiz!!! We will lose Ray, give him the job! He has done in 2 years what Whiz couldn’t in 5!! Give him the ship and maybe, just maybe we can avoid the iceburg! otherwise we’ll be looking at Ray kicking our butts in the future! We let A.P. slip through our hands, LEARN FROM HISTORY!!! Kurt took Denny’s team to the Super Bowl, Whiz took his to the toilet bowl!

    Starting the petitiion…

  103. By Patches O'Houlihan on Nov 19, 2012 | Reply

    @jocards: I doubt I can overstate how utterly lame it is to blame yesterday’s debacle on the refs. Anyone who has watched any significant amount of NFL football through the years knows that the NFL replay setup has a bias to retaining the call on the field. The team in question doesn’t matter. Yes, we have incompetent refs like Bill Leavy who remain employed despite botching two playoff games, but the larger point remains: When the refs make a call on the field, the refs will much more likely than not keep the call on the field barring the “overwhelming evidence” rule. And that’s what happened yesterday. But since we’re talking about that play, let us now turn our attention to one Lawrence Fitzgerald. The multi-million dollar man who is paid to play the game until the whistle, and he flat out QUIT on that play by his own admission. If you must find a scapegoat on that play, look to Lord Fitz. I won’t bring up the ball he should have caught but dropped.

  104. By jocards on Nov 19, 2012 | Reply

    Personally I don’t think it made any sense to bench Skelton in favor of Lindley yesterday. Skelton is not a good QB and I would never argue he was but Ryan Lindley? We’re not talking about RG3 or Andrew Luck here; we’re talking about Ryan Lindley. I have no problem with making a change to a guy that has never done anything in the NFL if you think it will make the team better and give you a better chance to win but to me this merely seemed like making a change for the sake of change. I’m not certain Kevin Kolb is the answer for this team either but I have no doubt he is far and away the best QB on the roster….by the time he returns the season will in all probability have already slipped away though….6 in a row and counting. Sad.

  105. By Patches O'Houlihan on Nov 19, 2012 | Reply

    @cardsalltheway – Speaking of tight ends, where was the Grim Heaper yesterday? The ninth ( I believe) straight week where the Grim Heaper was “questionable” but didn’t answer the bell. Why he has been allowed to take up precious roster space for two years in a row is a mystery I’ll never solve, well beyond the standard excuse of same old Cardinals. For all I know there’s still an element in the braintrust who says you can’t cut the Heaper because five ASU fans might not buy tickets.

  106. By Campbells on Nov 19, 2012 | Reply

    Since we all know Skelton’s body of work so well, we also know that this staff puts him in 3rd and long situations too often. We haven’t forgotten how many times we tried to run on first, throw for 3-yards on second, and when we’ve finally succeeded in getting ourselves in 3rd and long, defenses just dialed-up their blitzes? Seen this all year long. No imagination at all. New Orleans onside kick, helped win them a Superbowl. Ravens had a fake kick recently, that went for a touchdown. We completely lack any kind of creativity. You support change for the sake of change. Well, change got us another loss. Lindley wasn’t the cure for what ails us. We all know the outcome with Lindley, but we can only wonder how the game would’ve went if Skelton had finished. You also fail to consider the effect of the bye week. Takes a bit to get into rhythm. John was pulled before that could even occur. Since change is so good, we should follow Cleveland’s model. They keep plugging in high draft QB’s, and they keep failing. Why address the real issues, when you can just plug in a new QB? Maybe Rivers will get run out of SD at the end of this season, and we can offer him $50 million to save us???

  107. By Patches O'Houlihan on Nov 19, 2012 | Reply

    Am I the only one who finds it downright hilarious to think back and realize that Russ Grimm was once a trendy pick to be an NFL head coach? Oh how different things might have been if a greater fool had hired the lazy fraud Grimm and forced Whis to bid goodbye to his BFF and presumably Grimm’s worthless kid. The ultimate in addition by subtraction.

    I hope I’m not out driving when the Four Letter Network’s John Clayton announces who’s hot for NFL head jobs when the annual January purge happens. If he brings up Grimm I probably won’t be able to stop laughing and bad things could happen to my fellow motorists. Clayton has been the only Grimm die hard for the past couple of years.

  108. By Kevin S on Nov 19, 2012 | Reply

    Re: who starts Sunday, if Kolb isn’t ready (as Darren expects to be the case), then Lindley should get the reps in practice this week and the start against the Rams. If you’re going to bench Skelton after 7 throws (which, while I was surprised, I can support), I don’t see how you can be saying anything other than that he is not your starting QB any more.

  109. By rodgerscromartie17 on Nov 19, 2012 | Reply

    GorgieBird must have some type of grudge with the defense if hes gunna sit there and keep posting bad things, if you are not smart enough to realize, the only 4 wins this team has is because of the defense, and thats why everybody is comparing. offense has done absolutely nothing other than 2 touchdowns in the miami game, if you critic the defense in yesterdays loss, shame on you, you know nothing about the cards or football.

  110. By Jahstone on Nov 19, 2012 | Reply

    @Travis – I agree

    Fire Whiz, Mike Miller, and Rod Graves (man oh man it be nice to have Todd Haley about now – WOULDN’T IT???)

    Horton as new H.C. Townsend as Def Coordinator, and a obviouly a new OC and GM. This squarely falls on Whiz and Graves and the party is over.


  111. By JimHart on Nov 19, 2012 | Reply

    AZ we stink.Period.
    There is no excuse.
    We flat out stink…and the irony of it ia that were playing another suckie team next week.BUT it’s the same team that started this downfall for us with a destruction in the dome. So what does that mean?
    Will we give up 10 sacks this time? Maybe a NFL record of 15.
    Ugly uninspiring football.

  112. By sarah on Nov 19, 2012 | Reply

    BluePit ,

    STL started it we got 3 points. For sure Skelton should have hit Fitz with that pass and 2-7 is not cool but he always does that and we were ahead 13-0 . I just wanted to see a win and Skelton came off his best game since being a Card against GB. For whatever reason he is a second half guy. It was clear that putting Lindley had significant risk and keeping him in throughout the second half was daft and a coach that was proving a point. WHIZ lost this game ! Skelton would have scored in the second for sure given ATL’s bungling. I got his point benching Skelton ( even though we were winning, note winning ) but it was clear Lindley was not doing it and Skelton has proven time in and out in the second half, especially in the 4th quarter even against Minnesota. Blaming the guy for all the losses is unfair, for sure he has under performed but so has the rest of the team. Kolb pre injury was losing in the Buffalo game and lost to STL , both not so great teams. Skelton played an excellent first half against Seattle. Putting in a rookie when we needed the win was stupid and childish, bad coaching.

  113. By Eric Y on Nov 19, 2012 | Reply

    The team needs a change. If Harbaugh can step right in with the 49ers and completely turn that losing team around so quickly, how can Whiz not have this thing figured out yet? I love the guy, but is he too emotional or something? Does he not like laid back guys like Skelton, and Leinart? I know ML7 wasn’t that great but he could manage a game (even if that means checking it down), and pulling Skelton at THAT time?!!! WHAT!!!! We all know Skelton gets better as he goes, and if he has proven anything, it’s that he’s pretty clutch at the end of games. For the first time, I really do have to question the head coach on this one. What was he thinking doing that in THIS game?! Let Skelton play it out and if he loses, then start the rookie next week against the rams. Horrible move. I think this team found it’s leader in Kolb. A-Dub called his first win “poetic” for pete’s sake. This team needs their leader back fast>

    Darren- IF whiz doesn’t have a .500 or winning season (with another huge losing streak that’s still going included), do you see the organization going a different direction? Maybe it’s a little crazy, but Andy looks to be available next year. Do you pull the trigger on an opportunity to bring a guy like him in? Kind of like what the Colts did this offseason.

  114. By Darren Urban on Nov 19, 2012 | Reply

    Eric Y —

    RE: Coach change

    Addressed that in above blog post.

  115. By Eric Y on Nov 19, 2012 | Reply

    *Andy Reid. No I’m not on a first name basis.

  116. By Kevin S on Nov 19, 2012 | Reply

    Also, did it ever dawn on all of you who say Skelton plays so much better in the 2nd half that part of the reason for this would be our playing from behind? Most NFL QB’s end up with pretty good stats when they get to throw up pass after pass against a defense that is just trying to avoid the big play. In the 3 starts prior to this one, we trailed 21-7 vs. the Vikings (one minute into the 3rd quarter due to a Skelton pick-6), 17-0 at half and 24-0 midway through the 3rd quarter vs. SF, and 24-7 after GB’s first possession of the 2nd half (a FG set up by a Skelton INT). To the extent we saw moderate offensive success after that, it may well have been as much due to the game situation than any Skelton 2nd half “improvement.”

  117. By wnycardfan on Nov 19, 2012 | Reply

    SO, we don’t have the guy practice at all for the last 2 weeks (with they bye), and expect him to do well when we put him in (rookie mind you)???
    As Darren notes, run game looked good on paper, but reality is it was basically 2 long runs, kind of sad
    I’m 50/50 on the Whiz must go deal. But, I am 100% on board with dumping Grimm and Miller, I mean, NOTHING has changed on that front for 3 years.
    6 game losing streak, most of it can be pinned on piss poor Offense
    We keep setting records for bad things (worse running game in 50 years, Let falcons be the only team since 1967 to win after 5 turn overs, etc). That stinks…………….that looks awful……….those aren’t the records we want to set

    But, on the plus side, looks like Matt Cassel will be looking for a new team next year

  118. By Darren Urban on Nov 19, 2012 | Reply

    wnycardfan —

    RE: Lindley

    Lindley did practice. Whiz said that.

  119. By sarah on Nov 19, 2012 | Reply


    We needed a frigging win against a team that was ridiculously handing it to us, we were up 13-0 when he pulled him. Skelton is erratic as are all QB’s but when he lights up he is amazing and every game he does. I did not see his 2-7 just the highlight of his missed end zone disaster, he has to make a throw like that it was wide open no if’s and’s or buts. Basically the season is a write off now and Skelton the fall guy. I say Lindley is Max Hall ( he won his first game and the other team did not have 5 turnovers in their own end). I am just as frustrated as everyone else, I think if the game started to turn then bench Skelton but we know how he plays. Look Kolb against Buffalo was struggling but he stayed in and the week before he lost against STL and put up 3 points ( but he won 4 straight unlike last year). Nailing a QB’s confidence at the wrong time was a ridiculous call by Whiz, we knew nothing about Lindley and pre-season is Pop Warner as most vets just cruise. Lindley played against second and third stringers in pre-season. It was a stupid move, even the Wolf was blasting about it and I fully respect his football knowledge, Whiz rolled the dice like it was the first game of the season and we had lots of games left !

  120. By jwilliamsspf on Nov 19, 2012 | Reply

    Re: Horton becoming a HC

    I see he and Perry Fewell being at the top of the list when interviewing minority candidates. That increases the possibility of him moving on.

    But if I were looking at coordinators to hire for HC positions, I would sniff around the 49ers first.

  121. By brad oneill on Nov 19, 2012 | Reply

    i am of the opinion that its time for whiz to go, he’s had three years to do something anything to show he deserves to be coach after the amazing super bowl run. What has he done? Kept Grimm despite mounting evidence that he is not a good line coach, Passed on getting Haley back so he could keep Miller. Miller is a nice guy but I guarantee play calling would be much more creative and effective with Haley. Getting Kolb was the right move even though it hasn’t panned out. He was best available.

    Benching Skelton yesterday was a terrible decision, Skelton is now ruined, I realize he hasn’t been playing well, but pulling him that quickly sent the message that he is done in the NFL. I suspect Kolb is coming back sooner rather than later and Whiz was using this game to decide if Lindley would be a viable backup now that the Skelton experiment is over.

    What is up with the run game? I understand the Hyphen is a threat to go a long way everytime he touches it. But we should be using Powell in short yardage situations. He has the power to break through. Not to mention he puts more wear and tear on the defense when he touches the ball. Hyphen is great but there is a reason most teams use guys like that for 3rd down backs while pounding the opposition with bigger bodies for the first two downs. Granted if hyphen keeps doing his Barry Sanders impersonation its tough to reserve him for just third downs.

  122. By Mr Robles on Nov 19, 2012 | Reply

    So the line was upgraded a little, running got going the defence was bitting a little harder after that why didnt we go playaction a little more? That shot gun draw witha little p.a. coulda been called a little more. Houseler was he ok? I dont even remember a ball going his way. Is A Smith on the active roster why wasnt he isnt he used on short yardage? He is a bigger back.

  123. By jocards on Nov 19, 2012 | Reply

    You know a question was posed to Darren earlier and it really got me thinking….It was asked whether Michael Bidwill was a “football guy” or a businessman. In the long history of the Cardinals there have really only been two things that are constant….Losing and the Bidwill family. It is extremely difficult to believe that putting a winning team on the field has ever been a top priority for the Bidwills. The Cardinals were a charter member of the NFL and other than a disputed championship in the 40’s while playing in Chicago they have never won a title. The Bidwill family has owned this franchise since 1932. In more recent times, since the merger this organization has won 4 division titles and two of those have been in the last 4 seasons. That means that in the last 80 years under the control of the Bidwill family this franchise has one championship (while wearing leather helmets?) and 4 division titles….EVER. Think about that for a minute..that sort of futility is mind boggling. Excuse me but from my vantage point these guys are either miserable failures or winning isn’t a top priority….Considering their financial success overall I’d say they aren’t generally miserable failures. Perhaps Michael is cut from a different cloth but I wouldn’t bet on it.

  124. By truths4all on Nov 19, 2012 | Reply

    Isn’t it time to hold everyone accountable, including Whisenhut?

    The Offensive game plan was awful.

    The pulling of an experienced QB (even though he was off the mark) to play an unproven rookie who had not played a regular season snap was awful.

    The Second Half corrections to what the offense encountered from the Falcons defense was non-existent and awful.

    While Skelton Haters will attribute imaginary mistakes to Skelton, the reality is Lindley is the one who fumbled and did nothing to win the game. So the net result of playing Lindley was a huge backfire and failure. That was awful.

    Like lots of fans out there have been asking for – isn’t time to hold the head coach accountable for the failures and crummy team records since Warner left? Bring on Jon Gruden or Andy Reid.

  125. By inthecards87 on Nov 19, 2012 | Reply

    The defense is the reason the cardinals have won or gotten close in all games played. And I’m sorry but every loss goes on the coaches’ (cough offense coaches cough) back. No matter what team you are there is talent in any offense waiting to be harnessed and found. Yes some are better than others and the Cards have had some key injuries to their line and run game this year….but….THAT IS WHY YOU HAVE COACHES!!!! To train and prepare the other guys and that is the main part of your job! These players all play in the NFL…the top football league in the world. They all came from universities where they had success and they have been playing ball their whole lives. With good coaching you can turn anything into a winner. Now it is just painfully obvious that the lack of coaching ability has been covered up for years by a few select superstars (Warner, Boldin, Fitz, etc.) and now the defense is putting the world on its shoulders but if I was one of those guys I would be the first to say something. The Cardinals (Whiz) are coaching themselves out of games….there have been miniscule to no adjustments on the offense and other than coaching I don’t see how you can start on a four game win streak and then be on a current 6 game losing streak. It’s the same team. Yes certain people have been injured but it is not like any of those injuries were to superstar caliber players right? Skelton knows the offense and is more than capable to run it (we saw it last year) and it’s not like the players quit that early in the season when Kolb went down. The coaching has been exposed and it is just too obvious that they do not know what they are doing. Whiz and Grimm need to go ASAP and Horton needs to move up to HC….he has a plan, players respond and he understands how to build on depth. Say what you will but the Cards have one of the deepest defense’s in the league and not because they are loaded with stars but because they have leadership and a system which plays to their talents. If Whiz and the OC’s had the Patriots’ offense mixed with Green Bay’s offense they would still be terrible. 4th and two (last offensive play against the falcons) and you play a sideline fade with Fitz and Lindley (and the poor kid hadn’t thrown a route like that all day)??? The Atlanta Falcons gave Fitz a 7-10 yards cushion on that play (as they had been doing all afternoon)!! Hot route…1 step drop…quick throw to Fitz and he dives for the 2 he needs…no chance the CB gets up in time…no way. And that is something your OC needs to see….not your rookie QB.

    Props to the players for keeping their class through all this…I think it’s time the organization provide them with the right coaching to succeed.

  126. By Kevin S on Nov 19, 2012 | Reply

    Sarah —

    For the benefit of the rest of the posters, I will stop debating with you. This sentence proves your inability to be objective:

    “Skelton is erratic as are all QB’s but when he lights up he is amazing and every game he does.”

  127. By Nick Pepe on Nov 19, 2012 | Reply

    I second that.

  128. By The everlasting Kolbstopper on Nov 20, 2012 | Reply

    I third it

  129. By Patches O'Houlihan on Nov 19, 2012 | Reply

    To:jocards – You ask the question about whether the Mike Bidwill is a football guy or a businessman. The answer from my vantage point is…. neither. He was a U.S. attorney for a while before coming back to the family business to take over for dear old dad (just like Michael Corleone took over for Vito). Being a U.S. attorney is effectively a government job, that doesn’t count toward being a businessman, so he’s not a businessman. And he was a U.S. attorney for most of his professional career so that doesn’t make him a football guy. But that’s not necessarily a bad thing, what’s key if you’re the owner of a football team is to bring in football people. Bob Kraft at New England does that, the Maras in New York do that, and not coincidentally they have a record of success. Jerry Jones is an excellent businessman trying play football guy – failure. To the larger Bidwill question, as Bill Parcells says you are what your record says you are so the Bidwills are failures. After a year of beating up on arguably the worst division in football in 2008 and posting a 9-7 record, the Cardinals rode a fortuitous path to the Super Bowl and lots of people decided it wasn’t same old Cardinals anymore. Unfortunately, that’s not the case. There’s a lot of deadwood hanging on, personified by one Rod Graves. Perception is reality. Graves is the guy who stood up in front of Cardinal fans and defended the 2003 trade down to get two scrubs they could sign instead of the annual first round draft pick holdout. That’s just one example, there’s more: Who decided to sign Stewart Bradley, who can’t even get off the bench? Who decided to sign and put up with the mystery that is the Grim Heaper? I’ve said to friends, etc. that the NFL might be the one example where socialism works. The successful owners must give up some of their loot to give to the Mike Browns and the Bill Bidwills of the world and that creates a competitive balance. Unfortunately, it also creates what amounts to guaranteed profits for the laggards, and the Cardinals are the Bidwill family business, used to fund trust funds for current and future generations of Bidwills so they don’t have to suffer the humiliation(s) of by-the-bootstraps achievement. Bottom line, what I see in front of me is the same old Cardinals from the SDS days, only in a shinier building with air conditioning and a bigger price tag. Absent a housecleaning and the hiring of a real “football guy” in the GM chair with credibility, I don’t see it changing. I’ve been paying $100 per game to watch the new version of same old Cardinals, I used to pay $40. I won’t pay it anymore if Mike says staying the course with Rod, Ken and Russ is the answer. If I hate one thing in this world it’s being patronized and having my intelligence insulted.

  130. By georgiebird on Nov 19, 2012 | Reply

    @kevin S,
    I doubt there is anyone on this site who thinks Skelton is the answer at QB. The fact remains that Skelton is the best QB on this team and that includes Kolb. Kolb may be better than Skelton but when you’re injured, you are of no value to the team.
    Not to compare Kolb to an all-time great, but Mickey Mantle had the greatest baseball season in the past 75 years but is not considered the greatest player due to injuries and a shortened career.
    If I had the choice of Skelton or Kolb, I’m taking Skelton any day of the week.
    As as far as missing receivers, Matt Stafford is missing Calvin Johnson on a regular basis and he is a “franchise” QB. Yesterday’s TD was a gift from God.
    And you can keep the great Matt Ryan and all his playoff victories (oh, he doesn’t have any). Matt Ryan should have been pulled yesterday way before Skelton- at least JS didn’t turn the ball over, and they ended up with the same QB rating.
    In summary-Whiz must go! and let it be written that Kurt Warner was at the same time the best thing to happen to Whiz and the worst.

  131. By jocards on Nov 19, 2012 | Reply

    @ Patches O’Houlihan
    You really hit it on the head about hiring good football minds and letting them do their jobs. What I meant is that the Bidwills as a family have a lot of money so they must know something about business…they certainly do not know much about winning football. I’m not certain exactly how they made their fortune but I do know that granddad reportedly had ties to Capone in Chicago….whatever. I do know that putting a winning team on the field was not a priority in St. Louis (for Dad) and it is still not a priority in Arizona. They had an amazing run in 2008 and rode it all the way to a Super Bowl even after having only a slightly better than average regular season but I do not believe even for a half a second that this is anything but the same old Cardinals….and unfortunately I think it’ll remain so as long as the Bidwills own the team.

  132. By brom on Nov 19, 2012 | Reply

    I understand the coaches frustration with Skelton, but putting a rookie in against a very good defensive line was not the best move. The missed TD was a huge play that evidently could have won the game, but then Skelton could have made up for it later in the game like he has before. I know it’s hard to wait for things to straighten out when the team is struggling but you still have to keep your head and try to take the very best options. I disagree with the fumble ruling but these things are likely to happen when a rookie enters the game at that point.

    This time I must say the OL played pretty good. They were actually able to run the ball and give the QB time in most cases. I can’t think of a more wasted performance for a Defense. They played lights out. You can’t ask much more of them. This lost belongs to the QB position. I think Kolb could have pulled it out. It all went downhill when he got hurt. I guess we’re back to playing for pride.

  133. By Patches O'Houlihan on Nov 19, 2012 | Reply

    Jocards: You alluded to the million dollar question. Do the Bidwills not only WANT to win but also do what’s necessary to actually win. Those are two separate and distinct things. I can want to be lots of things, means nothing if I don’t do an honest assessment of my skills/abilities and what it’s going to take to get where I want to be it’s all just a bunch of BS. As for the Bidwills being good businessmen, it’s hard to make that determination in the prism of the NFL and what I said before, specifically that you have to work extremely hard to lose money as an NFL owner. So you don’t even need to be good, average is more than adequate. I think Mike actually wants to win, but I’m not convinced for one second that he knows how to do it and whether he’s honest with what’s really going on around him (Graves, for starters). Graves has been a loyal foot soldier for the Bidwills for a long time and I think it would tear Mike and the old man up to be honest and cast him off. But that’s what needs to be done. I actually have a personal story that I think illustrates that the Bidwills aren’t there despite any window dressing to the contrary. Season ticket holders get called periodically by the “Big Red Service Team” to see how things are going and if you have any comments/concerns. Usually I say no and that’s that. But recently I took them up on the offer and told them the stadium wi-fi is a piece of crap. So the guy dutifully looks into it and calls me back and says the wifi is currently in process of being upgraded and will be done possibly by the Buffalo game but no later than the 49er game. The Buffalo game it’s still a POS, no problem. Along comes the 49er game, it’s still a POS. So on my next call I tell the guy it’s still a POS despite the promises to the contrary. So he dutifully looks into it, calls me back and says SORRY! It was the telephone lines we were upgrading, not the wi fi! Now what does that have to do with the current state of garbage on the field? Nothing. But in my opinion an organization that can’t get the simple stuff right (fixing the wifi, having the story straight to tell customers), can’t reasonably be expected to get the hard stuff right (avoiding botched signings like Bradley and Heap, putting an acceptable product on the field, firing incompetent coaches like Grimm). It all makes sense now.

  134. By Steve on Nov 19, 2012 | Reply

    This was a distrubing loss and when things go wrong, you have to point fingers… First off, what is wrong with Larry Fitzgerald–I realize that you are being removed (either by defense or lack of offense) from the game plan but what happened with playing through the whistle???? The Lindley incompletion/fumble almost hit him in the foot, but you were to busy running off the field in frustration to realize this in what was ‘arguably’ the biggest play of the game/!!!! I am a fan of Whisenhunt but why take Skelton out leading 13-0??? Yes he didnt do a thing, but you were still winning… This also makes me think of 2 points….If Andre Roberts had been the open receiver would Skelton have been pulled??? Does this team treat Larry Fitzgerald the face of the franchise with kid gloves??? He liked Kolb so much the team overpayed for him in trade and contract…. Second point does this man really know quarterbacking???? I look back to the Matt Leinart/Derek Anderson scenario, I felt then that Leinart was heir apparent and should have been given a chance—-if he played himself out of the job so be it….BUT, WE THE FANS would have understood that…then this year with the silly pre-season QB competition……. This from my perspective reeks of a man (coach Whiz) who almost seems ignorant of judging talent….maybe I’m wrong….maybe its because these guys just stink and he is trying to pick the least smelly….. I know hindsight is 20/20, but ever since Kurt Warner not 1 quarterback (of 7) has been average, this is overseen by the man that ‘developed’ Ben Rothlesberger???? We all realize that Whiz had very little influence in that…. My opinion? Trade Larry Fitzgerald for as many picks as possible out of respect to him—send him to a winner—unless Kurt Warner comes out of retirement you will see more of the same ineptitude

  135. By cardsalltheway on Nov 19, 2012 | Reply

    Red cards,
    “I love it whiz sad he’s going to hold people accountable when is he going hold himself accountable plz plz plz fire this jerk maybe we could get Sean Payton”

    Ouch(the “jerk” part)! No comment Darren? Just so that I understand, name calling is preferred over humor, check!

    truths4all ,
    Your first comment was very good, I couldn’t have said it better myself. Thanks for the Tony Dungy summary. I agree with your 2nd comment as well.

    “whiz has an engineering degree, so he should try to engineer a way to clean out his desk and get out of town.”

    Nice introduction to your comment(hehehe), I agree with it and the rest of what you wrote.

  136. By Patches O'Houlihan on Nov 19, 2012 | Reply

    @Steve – Good points. To the question of whether Fitzgerald is treated with kid gloves so to speak, I think it’s beyond question. Not just by the organization, but the larger fan base. Fitz came here in 2004, one year after Boldin. Up to and including the 2007 season at a minimum, I have no doubt Boldin was the superior talent. Fitzgerald was essentially a catch and fall down guy, effectively a possession receiver, plus he had a tendency to fumble. Then Haley happened, he told Fitz he wasn’t all that and a bag of chips and Fitz to his credit responded. So what we might be seeing is Fitz regressing, which is understandable given the sorry state of affairs, but he’s not allowed to regress. Let the Grim Heaper be the face of cashing paychecks, Fitz is held to a higher standard and that run off the field before the whistle blew summed it up for me. If he’s not going to lead, there’s no reason to have him here. Trade him while the gettin’s good, but not before Graves is pushed out and a qualified GM takes over. Graves might do what I heard a fan suggest, trade Fitz to Denver for Osweiler straight up {shudders}.

  137. By scubasteve12 on Nov 19, 2012 | Reply

    To the people saying ” Yea but Skelton lights it up in the second half” your cant just play good football in the second half. You have to play FULL 60 MINUTES!
    Thats the reason he was benched. And there was no certainty that he would of scored later on. Also people getting mad that Whiz put in a 6th round rookie let me remind you Skelton is a 6th round Qb too. Skelton hasnt shown an ounce of improvement this season. He misses WAY TOO MANY easy throws. THATs why he was benched. Get over it. And to Sarah blaming the loss to St Louis all on Kolb didnt you just say its unfair to blame it all on one guy? And how can you blame him for the loss when he was sacked 9 times with no running game and defense failing. And if i remember right the onlyl reason we were even in the Buffalo game was BECAUSE OF KOLB. He kept the game tied. Also had the most rushing yards. Kinda sad. Skelton comes in and throws the pick to loose the game. IN NO WAY DID SKELTON KEEP THE CARDS IN THE BUFFALO GAME OR GIVE US A CHANCE TO WIN.

  138. By sarah on Nov 19, 2012 | Reply

    Kevin S I am not arguing with you, I say release Skelton and let him get on with his life vs what Whiz did yesterday. Let’s not forget that the D, Skelton and Fitz saved Whiz’s job last year.

    Further, due to Darren censoring we will not be debating anything anyway. Play Lindley and Kolb and see what we got for the rest of the season, see you in 2013, Kolb was fading near the end after an amazing Sept, Philly and NE were his best games the rest could have gone either way.

  139. By SeeingRed on Nov 19, 2012 | Reply

    One more thing…

    We needed Fitz to be FITZ but he was just another WR in that game. I know we are spoiled to a degree but that ball rolling off his stomach in the final moments was huge…not to mention the-not-so-great-thrown but he is capable of catching-balls that he didn’t come up with.

    So…in this moment I don’t really care how disappointed he is. If he had made a couple big plays it may have made the difference.

    By no means am I saying it is his fault we lost but everyone on that side of the ball (except maybe LaRod) shares in the collective offensive blame. Just sayin

  140. By Cert 33 on Nov 20, 2012 | Reply

    Skelton will probably be placed on waivers in a few weeks and guess what Skelton fans? Not one team will pick him up. I liked the way Skelton played last season and thought he might be a good one but this season he has had horrible accuracy issues. He also does not seem to have the confidence he played with last season. The team took a shot at acquiring Peyton Manning in the off-season and apparently Peyton did not want to play behind the NFL’s worst offensive line. Go figure. There are NO starting NFL QB’s in this year’s draft. Most years there are not. Some years there are more than one. The changes that need to be made are at Head Coach, Offensive Coordinator, QB Coach, Offensive line coach, and the Offensive line needs a complete overhaul.

  141. By KC on Nov 20, 2012 | Reply

    As soon as Lindley got put in the game, I said, “Why is Whiz putting in our third string QB when we are UP by 10? Here comes a pick 6.” I was close (fumble and TD instead). I was hoping there was something I was missing about Lindley, like maybe Lindley showed something great in practice lately because it seemed like a really stupid move given the situation. I could see if we were DOWN by 10 and needed to do anything to try to come back, but we were winning, and the run game was going well. The turnover rate for a rookie without the reps and knowledge seems pretty high. I know Skelton was playing bad, but what the heck was that! Saw that coming. I understand replacing Skelton, accountability, etc, but what a horrible time to do it. Anyway, I hope Lindley picks it up quick now because we need something to happen. GO CARDS!

  142. By Evan on Nov 20, 2012 | Reply

    Quick Breakdown:

    > Every loyal Card fan is %$#@ because Warner showed us the promiseland and now we’re back to being the laughing stock of the league. Expectations are higher in the Valley and we don’t want to be the Cubs of football (minus the love). However, our defense is around 6th in the league, so let’s focus on the offense…

    > Skelton was %$#@ awful, not only missing the TD to Fitz but also an easy first down pass to Fitz earlier in the game. Lindley will do better versus the Rams with first team reps this week, but we’re all wondering why our %$#@ QB’s can’t do what several other rookie QB’s are doing this year. Short term, we should have cut Skelton and signed Josh McCown (as mentioned here a long time ago, but Chicago just picked McCown up again due to the Cutler injury). Long term, let ’em all go and start over.

    > Whiz is a great guy and acts the part of a head coach, but his losing record since arriving here, combined with Grimm’s inability to build a %$#@ O-line, warrants being let go. To continue the viable “Pittsburgh West” philosophy, I’d like to see Bill Cowher (149 wins, 90 losses) in the driver’s seat while securing Horton with a 5-year deal. Cowher won’t sign on? GRUDEN!

    %$#@ easy! Right, Darren? =]

  143. By KKfan on Nov 20, 2012 | Reply

    Hey guys, guess the old saying is true, “misery loves company”. We Eagle fans are just as discusted, frustrated as you Card fans are. We are probably going to be one spot ahead, or one spot behind in the draft this comming April.

    Whiz probably figures that the season is a wash, with Kevin not ready to come back from injury.John not showing any improvement over last season. Why not put the rookie in to see how he responds to real game speed. Give you a little something to look at for next season.

    It’s becomming quite obvious that JS is not the answer to your QB woes. Kolb if he could stay healthy ( a better O line would certainly improve his chances of doing just that)) could be the answer…at least until a better QB draft comes along. And from all accounts I’ve read this up comming one is not very promising.

    We are having the same frustrations and demands as many on here are having about your coaches, GM…must be something in the air….if only that were the case.

    We’re all just counting the days to the end of the season and hopefully a cleanning of the house. Lurie said , “Andy would have to have a substancial improvement over last seasons 8-8 record”, to be brought back next season. Even if by some miracle we were to win our last 6 games, that would only give us a 9-7 record. One more win and one less loss. That to me ( and most fans) isn’t considered substancial improvement by any means.

    Foles has looked like what he is …a rookie. But he has had flashes of looking like he could be a future NFL Qb. He has good pocket awareness, can pick up the blitz pretty easily. Which has been a huge surprise to many. Pretty accrurate (even when throwing on the run). He’s made some rookie mistakes but for the most part has been very surprising and looks promising over all.

    I loved Kolb when he was with us. Felt if worked with and given the opportunity to, he could have become a really solid Qb. But instead Andy chose to go with Vick. Than Kevin’s growth and development became a non factor to the coaching staff. And Kolb asked to be traded since it looked like Vick was going to be the guy ..
    It’s just a shame that he hasn’t been able to stay healthy since joining your team.
    I hope things turn around for you guys. That Kevin gets back and wins the remainder of your games ( if Whis chooses to go back to him) .

  144. By Eazy E on Nov 29, 2012 | Reply

    Whiz Whiz Whiz… Losing this game is unacceptable after that defensive performance. Benching Skelton after a 13-0 lead. He missed Larry but your backup is a 6th round rook. A-Wil getting inexplicably benched on nickel downs. Floyd getting benched because he lined up wrong. It’s just coming apart at the seams. 6 in a row.

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