Jets aftermath

Posted by Darren Urban on December 2, 2012 – 6:30 pm

I don’t think it’s out of line to think the most interesting question of the week will be who the Cardinals start at quarterback in Seattle next weekend. (Yes, I am aware of the understatement there.) Seattle has never been a particularly easy place to play for any Cardinals QB – I remember some rough games for Kurt Warner – and the last two years, Max Hall and Kevin Kolb have had trouble putting up points.

So after Sunday, when rookie Ryan Lindley had so much difficulty in production, will coach Ken Whisenhunt go back to him again? There’s no way to know if Kolb will be ready this week, but if he isn’t, Lindley is in the middle of six quarters of play he isn’t going to file among his NFL memories.

Whiz noted there were some poor routes/adjustments by receivers – one time, it seemed Michael Floyd just slowed up on a deep pattern, and the ball ended up well over his head – but Lindley knew he struggled. To have 10 three-and-outs as an offense (one ended on an interception), plus a four-and-out when the Cards couldn’t pick up a first on fourth down, was just devastating. When you lose a game by a single point, it’s that much more magnified.

“We just have to play better,” Lindley said. “I have to play better.”

— There is no need to belabor the point. I know there were plenty asking if/when Whiz was going to put in John Skelton. Was I surprised a change wasn’t made? I guess I was. Whisenhunt said he stuck with Lindley because he understood the scheme and what needed to be done. That’s got to translate into the game play, though.

I’m sure the comments below will be dominated by this subject.

— What a day for Kerry Rhodes. He promised on the Big Red Rage “I’m going to make plays, don’t worry about that one” when asked about his return to New York. It was Rhodes’ first chance to go against the Jets and coach Rex Ryan, who ripped Rhodes pretty good after Rhodes was traded away. Had the Cards won,’ Rhodes’ two interceptions and forced fumble would have been the perfect narrative. Losing takes the luster off, for sure, but you have to think Rhodes made his point while continuing to have a good season. Officially, Rhodes had six tackles and three passes defensed too.

— The interception by Patrick Peterson was a heck of an athletic play. It looked like he was definitely beaten, yet he not only made up the ground but grabbed the pick.

— Crazy how Jets kicker Nick Folk hit both the left upright and right upright on a pair of missed field goals. The Jets weren’t exactly an offensive juggernaut out there. Some of that was the Cards’ defense, but some of that is the Jets’ issues too.

— Running back Beanie Wells had only 22 yards on 15 carries. There weren’t a lot of holes for him to hit for sure, but watching him run he just doesn’t look totally right with the knee, which did limit him in practice last week. I know that when his two straight runs on third- and fourth-and-1 early in the game that the Cards couldn’t convert hurt. The Jets have a good defense, but an absence of a run game shows up when the QB struggles. Then again, the Jets could tee off on the run because they weren’t concerned about Lindley beating them.

— Punter Dave Zastudil tied his career-high with 10 punts which makes sense in context.

— It was a weird game because the Jets’ crowd wasn’t happy with their team much of the game and let them know it. To have Greg McElroy come in to play quarterback and get the kind of cheer he did just shows how much the fan base doesn’t have faith in Mark Sanchez. McElroy didn’t do anything special. But he was the lone QB with a TD drive.

— Dan Williams was just talking about taking advantage of more playing time if he got the chance, and Sunday, he got the chance with the Jets playing a lot of run-first offense. The nose tackle responded with a team-high 10 tackles.

I wish I had a lot more to touch on but I do not. The QB thing is going to overshadow everything I’m sure.


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Posted in Blog | 171 Comments »

171 Responses to “Jets aftermath”

  1. By Gary Wayne on Dec 2, 2012 | Reply

    Up untill today coach Wiz had my never ending support, I am so disapointed in his coaching today. It didnt seem to me that he wanted to win this game. Lindley was completely inefective, and by half time a change to Skelton should have been made. After all that was 5 quartes of ineffective play by Lindly (1st quarter of last game was ok). This season is over, It will be a miracle if the Cards make it to a 5 win season. Decent job by the line pass blocking today. Defense is so impressive.

    It was so obvious that Lindley could not cope with adjustments that Fitz had to make on his routes. Right now the game is out of his grasp. He needs more time on the bench learning the position. Playing him like this ill just crush his ego and ruin any hope for his future.

  2. By Long suffering fan on Dec 2, 2012 | Reply

    Darren, do you ever get a chance to speak with Michael and Bill Bidwell? Do you get a legit sense that they want to win? I really question it sometimes. It seems like there are personnel moves that could be made in-season that never are, key free agents either leave or aren’t pursued if they are from other teams, they don’t do much to make season-ticket holders feel wanted ( except when they were trying to get the prop passed for the stadium deal) and say nothing in regards to the years of play below mediocrity. Granted an owner like Jerry Jones is a crazy person but at least he is passionate about winning. I know It is extremely heartbreaking to go through this each week and to be told the same canned responses each week from the HC is insulting. I don’t know…maybe it’s just me.
    Fan since day 1 in AZ.

  3. By rufus on Dec 2, 2012 | Reply

    Whiz is driving this team into the ground. No reason Lindley should have ever seen action this year. He is a sixth round draft pick with limited upside. At least three losses this year are the direct result of ineffective coaching decisions.

  4. By TM on Dec 2, 2012 | Reply

    I wish Whiz would address the media/fans with what is going on with why he is playing Lindley. His comments on the subject do not make sense at all. He has talked about “accountability”, “the best chance to win”, but again, makes no sense, given Lindley’s play. I have lost a lot of respect/trust in Whiz, more to the fact that he is dodging his real reasoning, whatever that may be.

  5. By Jesse on Dec 2, 2012 | Reply

    At a loss for words. But I know this- after seeing how Whiz evaluates QBs, I hope he doesn’t waste our first round draft pick on one. He couldn’t pick a good one to save his life

  6. By carlo milano on Dec 2, 2012 | Reply

    have u ever seen a horrible match like this one today in your life?

  7. By Darren Urban on Dec 2, 2012 | Reply

    Carlo —

    RE: Cards game

    For the Cards, yes, I have seen worse overall games. I do not think I have ever seen them play so poorly offensively.

  8. By Brent on Dec 2, 2012 | Reply

    I hope the Cards hire Horton as HC before another team can. The Cards need to keep him in the organization.

  9. By Alan on Dec 2, 2012 | Reply

    Not going to blame Lindley for this one. This one is on Coach Whiz for bad coaching. It is time he gets over himself and start coaching this team to win. Leaving a Healthy Todd Heap in-active stinks of coaching Politics and to not bring Skelton in to start the 3rd quarter goes to show he is too stubborn to do what is best for the team. Wouldn’t be surprised if Fitz wants out after witnessing the coaching Debacle!!!!!!

  10. By Christo on Dec 2, 2012 | Reply

    Can’t wait for this season to be over.

    Just hope some of the key contributors to our CONTINUED failure go with it as well.

    IE Graves, Whisenhunt, Grimm, Miller -> Doucett, Skelton, Brown, Snyder, Colledge, Lenon.

    Lots and lots of house keeping to do.

  11. By Patrick on Dec 2, 2012 | Reply

    I don’t think it’s out of line to think the most interesting question of the week will be who the Cardinals start at quarterback in Seattle next weekend.

    After today, I think the most interesting question should be “who the head coach should be next week” Today was completely embarrassing.

    As far as next year, Sean Peyton, Todd Haley, Ray Horton, Andy Reid may be top candidates for me. (in order)

  12. By Tom on Dec 2, 2012 | Reply

    What else is there to say? Injuries at several offensive positions and terrible QB play from Skelton and Lindley have doomed the season. The number of injuries should allow Whiz to keep his job for one more season, but he needs to be forced to fire or demote Miller as OC and to bring in a QB specialist for that position.

    They also need to figure out why they’re so poor at QB evaluation as well, as they’ve strung together quite a list of bad QBs in FA and the draft in Anderson, Hall, Skelton, and Lindley, while other teams seem to have been able to find decent QBs in the draft such as Kaepernick, Wilson, and Dalton. (Yes, those QBs were drafted earlier, but the Cards had a chance to draft all of them and passed on them.)

    They’d better hope Kolb is ready to play next week, because it’s obvious that Lindley isn’t ready to start and they need to decide whether to try to renegotiate to bring Kolb back next season (he most likely won’t be back at his current deal). And Skelton is almost certainly gone at this point.

    Probably time for Beanie to hit the road as well unless he really surprises in the last few games, since he can’t stay healthy and looks tentative.

    The only bright spot is that the OL is looking better with the experience Potter and Massie are getting, so with Levi back we might actually have a decent OT rotation. However, we still need to get a G to replace Snyder, he’s as terrible as advertised from SF fans.

    Right now I’d put the top offseason needs as QB (draft one in rds 1-3 to develop even if Kolb stays), RB (draft pick or FA for behind Williams), OL (draft a guard to replace Snyder), and CB (Gay isn’t good and Toler can’t stay healthy).

  13. By Ottis Anderson Fan on Dec 2, 2012 | Reply

    One more nail in the Whiz/Grimm/Graves coffin. Four more nails (games) and we can bury them all.

    Beanie needs to be cut during the offseason. Cards should draft all offensive players in 2013.

  14. By Supercardinals100 on Dec 2, 2012 | Reply

    Norv turner-oc

    I’m sorry but whiz and mike miller need to go absolutely horrible on offense the play calling was horrible why is it that we run a draw play on first down for no gain and then do a run down the middle for a two yard gain and it’s either 3 and 8 or 3and 7 idk how many times it was 3and7 it’s absolutely horrible play calling..we keep Grimm and Horton that is it Grimm has actually made the o- line GOOD these past weeks our tackles had not givin up a sack in a few games and the qb is having time to throw the ball…you don’t go 0-15 on 3down conversions with Fitzgerald and Floyd on your team that is unnactable I am so disappointed in this play calling its year don’t reach for a tackle in the first round please don’t our oline is improving big time ….draft manti teo pair him up with Washington try to get Landry jones in the second in the 3rd go for the honey badger can’t deny his talent even though with his of field issues we have enough leaders on defense to straight him up and we will see what we need at other needs as the season progresses but those are our biggest needs and adress the RG position in free agency please cardinals don’t reach for a tackle massie and potter are progressing great please!! Go cards

  15. By sarah on Dec 2, 2012 | Reply


    I have to admire you for writing blog stories about what amounts to a complete bungling of an offence. Hard to put a positive spin on it continually I am sure and appreciate your honest assessment. It is what it is so to speak ! It is beyond clear Lindley is not doing it against two weak teams let alone Atlanta essentially handing the game to the Cards. Congrats to the D today same as Atlanta game.

    Skelton is so beyond the doghouse and Whiz refuses to go with him ( he must have said something to the coaches ) If Skelton was inserted and turned it around and won it shines a huge light on Whiz’s Atlanta pull after 7 passes. Whiz has to go as he has thrown the season for a rookie and a teaching lesson. Bartel would have won these games, even Max Hall !!! It would not have been allot to ask of Skelton and GB showed he is very capable.

    From you post Atlanta : ”Had he gone back to Skelton, it would have made what happened in Atlanta a real head-scratcher (yes, I am aware there are many of you who already see it that way.)”.

    C’est Tout and Kevin S enough please as I am allowed to comment . Back to being a fly on the wall.

  16. By Cody Zarr on Dec 2, 2012 | Reply


    I haven’t had the chance to watch any of the post game interviews and probably won’t, but I’m sure the question was or will be asked of Wiz; Why would he pull Skelton so readily but when Lindley plays significantly worse than Skelton did to get benched Lindley does not come out? Was that question asked, and if so, how did he respond?

  17. By Darren Urban on Dec 2, 2012 | Reply

    Cody —

    RE: Whiz reasoning

  18. By sarah on Dec 2, 2012 | Reply

    Too bad Skelton did not get in for the second half, he played in NYC and the fans would have liked it, popular guy there as per the two stories below. If he had got in and wowed Whisenhunt would have serious egg on his face and story would have been big in the NY dailies !!

  19. By donttakelosses on Dec 2, 2012 | Reply

    It is not fun, but not devastating… to lose 8 in a row.

    The fact is the team is injured, short handed and came in with poor talent assessment of the entire OL and QB position. … that is only magnified by the injuries and poor play. Every OL position player is suspect except TE. Out top OL is average at best, Sendlein’s guts and character go a long way, but in the end, he is an average C. Several OL can play to NFL standards as part of a unit, but to rely on Colledge and Snyder to lift the others? Just too much to ask from journeymen. They do well to hold their own. I love the guts these guys spill… but they just were unable to get it done, play after play after 3rd down play… period.

    At QB, Skelton was never the answer … Whiz simply misjudged that. We won last year more despite than because of him. His allure was his gutsy 4th qtr play, but that simply cannot compensate for a lack of QB IQ and skill.

    Bottom line, we are suffering the consequences of poor judgments as to talent, bad luck and most importantly a rash of key injuries, especially to Kolb. The SB year our OL was also suspect, but it was not hurt and played as a unit adequately.. mostly because of the skill of Warner, it only occasionally got exposed. We NEVER had better than average players there, almost at any OL position, in my 23 seasons a a ticket holder.. That talent poor OL position has carried over and now it is exposed, again .. and we pay the price. If they could have run block and knocked guys back, we don’t get the rookie QB nearly as exposed. Most NFL teams are weak at one or two positions, ours is OL and QB after Kolb is hurt…

    In the end.. one more game, where we were still only 1 play away from winning… so no whining, just suck it up.. we got exposed and lost by a point… and so it goes.

    Go Cards.. don’t go hang dog on us… kick some as_.

  20. By Lifetime Fan on Dec 2, 2012 | Reply

    I’d have to agree with the above threads. I think Whiz made a mistake pulling Skelton in the ATL game and instead of admitting it and putting him back in he is trying to ride Lindlely as it he will make our offense better. Today proved that is not true and we would have likely won with Skelton in the second half. The “player that gives us the best chance to win” talk is a bunch of Mularky.

  21. By reap37 on Dec 2, 2012 | Reply

    That had to be the worst NFL game I’ve ever seen. It saddens me greatly that a team which had so much promise is now at the bottom rung. Every other team is better. What is the problem between Skelton and the Whiz? Is he planning to dump him at the end of the year? Should dump all the QB’s; they’re embarrassing!

  22. By Steve on Dec 2, 2012 | Reply

    Darren: The national medias speculation that Whisenhunts job is in jeopardy is sure to pick up now. Do you still feel he will be back next season if worst case scenario the cards lose their remaining games enroute to a 12 game losing streak?

  23. By Darren Urban on Dec 2, 2012 | Reply

    Steve —

    RE: Future

    I don’t think anything is certain about the future right now.

  24. By reap37 on Dec 2, 2012 | Reply

    Are you kidding me? Embarrassing play! Cards are getting worse as the weeks pass by. No improvement, no quarterback, no running game, no coaching, no nothing!

  25. By cardsalltheway on Dec 2, 2012 | Reply

    “When you lose a game by a single point, it’s that much more magnified.”

    The game wasn’t that close! I’m glad I didn’t bet on the game since it should’ve easily been 14 – 6, instead those betting the spread got burned with the Jets.

    Ken W. can now see the difference in Home/Away when putting a first time 6th or 7th round QB in the game. When you play a late round QB the first time, he can actually win at home.

    I feel so sorry for any QB who plays for/under Ken W. If the Bidwills make us suffer with Ken W. next year we simply cannot draft another QB. Ken W. already has his two or three QB’s. Reap what you sew! Now, the smart thing would be to oust him so our players can work with a good head coach and new/different system. Ken W.’s is bad and/or is poorly taught/managed.

  26. By ndpenner on Dec 2, 2012 | Reply

    I think that we have a legitimate chance of picking 3rd in the draft. That being said, with the way our defense has straight up decimated other teams most games, it’s a pretty sad fact. I’m glad I’m working nights so I had to sleep instead of follow this game. Pretty depressing.

  27. By Bryth on Dec 2, 2012 | Reply

    Pretty sure the comments are going to have more “Who will be our HC next season” rather than who the QB is next week

  28. By Jordan on Dec 2, 2012 | Reply

    I can’t even explain how painful it is too watch all these other teams fighting to make the playoffs. When losing to get a higher draft pick (which I DO NOT support) is more logical than winning, it is a sad time to be a part of/ a fan of a team. On the bright side, the potential of this team is through the roof. We’re one quarterback and a couple o linemen away from being a serious threat, not only in the division, but in the nfl. If handled correctly, this could be the draft that brings this team to the next level. This upcoming offseason will be the most important one in a while. Whether it’s bringing in rookies, or bringing in a new head coach, or seeing what happens with Ray Horton, or even what happens with Rod Graves, there are several big things that could happen this offseason. Personally, I like the thought of keeping Ray Horton at d coordinator and bringing in a new head coach, new offensive coordinator, and a new quarterback. Some people say that Kolb getting this team to 4-0 should mean that he deserves to keep his job. I definitely see the logic in that, however he is FAR to injury prone to consistently be on the field. That is the same reason that I don’t like the idea of going after Vick if he were to be let go by the Eagles. It doesn’t matter how good a quarterback’s skill set is if all he can do is stand and watch on the sidelines. In regards to the coaches, if the only way we can keep Ray is by promoting him to head coach, then I believe that that’s what needs to be done. Losing him would be an enormous step back for this team. Also I think that Mike Miller needs to go too. Heck, he could leave now and it really wouldn’t make a difference. It’ll be interesting to see how everything plays out, and I’m really hoping that we can get it together sooner rather than later. In the meantime though, we’ve got four agonizing games left. Should be a blast.

  29. By Patches O'Houlihan on Dec 2, 2012 | Reply

    Who cares about who plays QB at Seattle? All that matters is whether Mikey puts his big boy pants on after the books are closed on this 4-12 disaster and sends Graves and Whis packing. I’m guessing no, Mikey will settle comfortably into same old Cardinals just like dear old Dad.

    With any luck Mikey continues the fake sellout policy next year and I can watch the home games on TV, since I won’t be making the drive to Glentucky anymore.

  30. By johnnybluenose on Dec 2, 2012 | Reply

    well, that was fun. just another disaster, week after week. and another whiz press conference where he begins by saying that he is obviously disappointed in the outcome of the game. he says that every week. then he says they did not do enough offensively. he says that every week too. then he says the players made too many mistakes, particularly the receivers who ran the wrong routes. why is that whiz? this is december. should the players not know the plays by now and should they not know how to adjust their routes according to what the defense does? whiz, do you think it may be due to lousy coaching? we rushed for 81 yards but 40 were on the fake punt. so, aside from that one play we rushed for 41 yards. in the whole game. and we attempted 31 passes and gained a total of 72 yards. we were zero for 15 on third down conversions. ZERO. and when whiz was asked about whether or not he had considered changing quarterbacks he gave his standard and unbelievable reply, ” you always do what you think gives you the best chance to win. that’s what we did.” whiz is a broken record and he has no credibility at all. he made a big deal out of the so-called quarterback competition that did nothing to solidify the position. and then he names skelton as his guy. and now skelton is healthy and benched in favour of a rookie six round draft pick. and whiz wants us, the fans and season ticket holders, to believe that our best quarterback is playing. this is beyond ridiculous. this is twilight zone stuff. i want darren to assume the head coaching responsibilities for the rest of the year and i want our offensive and defensive units to coach themselves. the players know what to do. the result could not be any worse than we have seen the last two months. we are nowhere, man.

  31. By Bryan on Dec 2, 2012 | Reply


    Besides financial reasons – is there any legit argument that can be for not firing both Whisenhunt and Graves?

  32. By cardsalltheway on Dec 2, 2012 | Reply

    Gary Wayne,
    “It will be a miracle if the Cards make it to a 5 win season.”

    This! 4 -12 for sure, we just lost our 2 easiest opponents on the 2nd half schedule. We will only win another game if the other team has an “off” Sunday or their QB gets hurt. If we were to get rid of Ken W. before the end of the season, we’re guaranteed a win the next game!

  33. By MIKE HADZINSKI C.M. PUNK on Dec 2, 2012 | Reply

    Darren is your future safe?

  34. By jason marcus on Dec 2, 2012 | Reply

    I think Whiz is terrible for not putting Skelton in he basically cost us the let 3 games, we have a top 5 defense , bottom 5 offense , worst offense I ever saw ,even the jets put in there other guy what the hell happened out there ?

  35. By MIKE HADZINSKI C.M. PUNK on Dec 2, 2012 | Reply

    Rumors start to rumble in my head about the MLB from the fighting irish playing next 2 d-wash what’s his name

  36. By redbirdman on Dec 2, 2012 | Reply

    I love someone of the comments posted here. How anyone could have supported Whisenhunt up till today’s game is beyond me. This guy couldn’t coach Peewee football. He’s a poser. A guy who is in way over his head.

    The same applies to Russ Grimm. For a former All Pro lineman and HOF you have to ask yourself why he can’t get the o-line to play at a level higher than that of a human turnstile. I mean he’s had six years to figure this out but seems to be stymied.

    As for the Bidwills all you need to do is look back on the win / loss record of this franchise. I’ve followed the Cardinals since their days in St. Louis dating back to the early sixties. Just when you think they’re ready to climb out of the slime they regress and flounder near or at the bottom of their respective division. If you folks in Arizona think you have it bad just think of how the fans in St. Louis felt when Bill Bidwill left the city. After years of supporting a garbage product he deserted what was a loyal fan base.

    Has anyone ever wondered why the Rooney’s didn’t hire Whisenhunt? I mean afterall he was a Steeler. Instead they go outside the organization and hire Mike Tomlin.

    Finally getting back to Whisenhunt. It’s quite obvious that he’s a raging egotist. He can never take responsibility for when things go bad. NEVER. He talks about playing those who can execute. He won’t hesitate sitting a player he feels isn’t accountable. But who is holding Whisenhunt accountable? He should be “sat” down for poor play calling and game planning.

  37. By Supercardinals100 on Dec 2, 2012 | Reply

    The o-line has played real solid of late the o-line is has not been the problem these past foour games the qb has had plenty of time to throw with no pressure our rookie tackles have not allowed a sack in the past few games its been the quaterbacks and the play calling that has been our issue

  38. By Patches O'Houlihan on Dec 2, 2012 | Reply

    To Hadzinski: Urban is probably safe, his job is to be the Cardinals house organ and not be critical of the House of Bidwill, and he fills the bill nicely. Rod Graves has hung around for years playing yes man, surely Urban can do the same.

  39. By Darren Urban on Dec 2, 2012 | Reply

    Patches —

    RE: Criticism

    Always nice to be criticized by someone who hides behind a pseudonym.

  40. By suspence716 on Dec 2, 2012 | Reply

    Do you really think the qb thing is going to overshadow the real issue? The real story here is how inept and incompetent whiz and his flawlessly engineered systematic offense are!!! This is by far the worst offense I have ever watched at any level of football in my life! It is down right disgusting and unacceptable. Anyone who thinks whiz shouldn’t be fired immediately obviously has there head shoved somewhere dark and uncomfortable!!!!!!

  41. By Patches O'Houlihan on Dec 2, 2012 | Reply

    To redbirdman: Grimm is an utter fraud. He’s the Mean Joe Greene of the offensive side of the ball. A high-achieving player who figured he could mail it in as a coach. No one needs any more reason to want Whis fired, but if anyone still does look no further than his blind support of his BFF Grimm. The Grimm Problem didn’t start this year, it’s been around for years.

  42. By Jim in Missouri on Dec 2, 2012 | Reply

    Darren, I’ve been in and out here recently, so sorry if this has been addressed, but has Whiz ever been asked what happened with Skelton? It’s mind-boggling to think he was the best QB on the roster coming out of camp, yet couldn’t get a sniff during arguably the worst offensive performance in franchise history.

    Either he regressed horribly or the coaching staff made a huge mistake in judging him ready.

    In any case, this has the potential to be one of the biggest off seasons of change in a long, long time for this team. If this team ends with 12 straight losses, I can’t imagine the staff surviving. And it wouldn’t be a big surprise if none of the QBs returned, same with Wells, Heap (obviously), Wilson and Rhodes, probably others.

    You’ve been around the team for several cases of coaching staffs that were surely aware they were lame ducks and playing out the string. Any such indications with this staff?

    Thanks as always.

  43. By Darren Urban on Dec 2, 2012 | Reply

    Jim in Missouri —

    RE: Staff

    No, I don’t think there has been any of that from this staff.

  44. By Hammy on Dec 2, 2012 | Reply

    Defense was absolutely terrific today! Im so proud of those guys and the entire defensive coaching staff for putting together a great game plan. With that said, I think this was the worse effort from the offense I have ever seen in the history of Cardinals football.

    I dont know why they would consider keeping Whiz and gang here next year. He has had ample amount of time to fix this issue with the Offense. I would like to see this team go in another direction for next season and find a new head coach.

    I also think Rod Graves needs to stay put for now but he needs to draft some guys that will get the job done on offense. You have to take the best Tackle available and find a solid quarterback as well.

    All we can do Cardinals fans is have hope like we do every season that we will not go back in the dog house as one of the worst NFL teams year in and year out. I pray the organization turns this mess around for good.


  45. By Mike Allen on Dec 2, 2012 | Reply

    You don’t fire a good head coach because the team can’t find a good quarterback. I also find it amusing that so many people are so positive the Cardinals can’t evaluate quarterbacks. What high picks have the Cardinals wasted on drafting a quarterback? None. What good quarterbacks have the Cardinals been in a position to draft but passed on? One (Russel Wilson and all 32 teams passed on him twice, AND he probably wouldn’t fit the Cardinals system anyway). The Cardinals made a bold move for Kevin Kolb and that seemed to be turning out to prove a lot of nay-sayers wrong until he got crushed. Its easy to say Whiz should have replaced Lindley with Skelton but Skelton had not played any better. And what if Whiz goes to Skelton and they lose? Then everyone says he is wishy washy and unfit to lead the team. This guy has taken two different teams to a superbowl when he has a quarterback. Shouldn’t we wait until he has a quarterback before sending him out the door?

  46. By Mike Allen on Dec 2, 2012 | Reply

    How is Grimm a fraud? He turned a 4th round and a 7th round tackle into starters that have played well for three games in a row, and he did it in half a season! Has that EVER been done?

  47. By Dave - The Depressed Season Ticket Holder on Dec 2, 2012 | Reply

    First off, I Love the Comments made by my fellow fans today (all of you guys echo very well how I feel) about Whiz, and the sad state of his/ and or the decisions made by the organization this season….It seems every year it’s been nothing but excuses…I’m sick of this “it’s a process Bull – – – – !”

    I love the Cards, but after the past three seasons, I’m not fighting with my spouse anymore to renew season tickets for another year in advance.

    Show me a commitment to winning, or I’ll be watching from home, if there are no blackouts. I’m not kidding either Mr. Bidwell.

  48. By Patches O'Houlihan on Dec 2, 2012 | Reply

    Urban: My name is Dean Kennedy, call me at xxx-xxxx if you’d like to discuss anything in more detail. I’ve been a Cardinals season ticket holder since 1996, if you think that gives me any credibility and you want to verify my bona fides. Looking forward to your call.

  49. By Nor cal cards fan on Dec 2, 2012 | Reply

    How serious was the altercation between Rhodes and Dockett?

  50. By Darren Urban on Dec 2, 2012 | Reply

    Nor Cal–

    RE: Rhodes/Dockett

    I will be honest, that’s the first I have heard of it.

  51. By Red cards on Dec 2, 2012 | Reply

    Wow that’s Kenny’s Reason for not putting John in bc the receivers ran the wrong routes omg this guy thinks all of us fans r fools man I’m praying this guy gets his butt kicked the planet

  52. By Dean Kennedy on Dec 2, 2012 | Reply

    Urban: Didn’t realize I could change my username, I only started blowing off steam here a week or so ago. No more pseudonyms, I’m an open book.

  53. By Bryan on Dec 2, 2012 | Reply


    As someone who knows the team, history of organization, and has observed lots of other winnings organizations/teams in the NFL. In your personal opinion

    Do you think Rod Graves deserves to be retained as GM ?

    Do you think Ken Whisenhunt deserves to remain as HC after these last 3 years?


  54. By Darren Urban on Dec 2, 2012 | Reply

    Bryan —

    RE: “deserves”

    I don’t know if it is a question of deserves. Both men can point to enough successes that you can make the argument they deserve it. The NFL is a win-now league though, and they both understand that side of the business. I am not privy to everything that goes on behind the scenes; like any job, there are always multiple factors involved. I will say this: Given the current situation, barring a late surge, no one would be surprised at change.

  55. By Kurt on Dec 2, 2012 | Reply


    My question to Whiz and Graves: Have the Bidwells guaranteed your jobs for next year?

    They most probably have been guaranteed evidenced by Skelton not playing.
    Are the Bidwell’s calling the QB shots?

    And all the hype that Horton is the next great head coach in the NFL, That would be for a team that has no expectations for stopping the run and tackling well.

  56. By brad oneill on Dec 2, 2012 | Reply

    I dont believe the problem is qb evaluation I believe it is in QB preparation. Derrick anderson didn’t know he was starting until the week before the season. Same is true of Skelton, Its ridiculous to run a team this way. Max Hall was thrown into action with very little prep and finds himself out of hte league despite his potential because he was judged on play he made with less preparation than probably any other starting qb in the league. Kolb always had an outlet when he was with Philly coach whiz didnt like that style so he took away the outlet hoping to break kolbs habit of breaking from the pocket. well it worked he didnt have an outlet to throw too and now just takes sacks at least until he was injured again.

  57. By Scharf on Dec 2, 2012 | Reply

    Really? All this crying over a man’s job. Coach Whiz has actually made this team into something, he made this team relevant of talking about early in the seasons. You can’t blame him for giving Lindley the benefit of the doubt, all of you Skelton lovers need to admit, he isn’t that great. Skelton was given a 4-2 team and has helped us to continue this abysmal losing streak. Skelton continues to regress and look more and more like a rookie. Lindley has more upside right now. I say we get rid of Beanie Wells, and John Skelton this year. Well’s magic ended his rookie year, and he hasn’t done much of anything since. Tim Hightower deserved to be on this team, not Beanie 2 yard wells.

  58. By Ottis Anderson Fan on Dec 2, 2012 | Reply

    I have no issue with playing Lindley the entire game. We know what we got in Skelton and he isn’t the answer. Gotta see how Lindley deals with adversity. This was only his second start. Not looking good so far though. Lindley will certainly be with the team next year, but Skelton and Kolb probably not, so good for Lindley to go through growing pains in a season that’s been lost for weeks now. At any rate, the starting QB for 2013 isn’t on the current Cardinal’s roster, IMO.

    Skelton would seem to give the Cards their best chance to win, but that doesn’t square with Whiz has stated publically. I think Whiz figures Skelton probably played a big role in eventually costing Whiz his job with so many missd passes that Whiz isn’t going to give Skelton a chance to redeem himself. Just my pwn conspiracy theory.

    That Nick Foles in Philly playing w/o Peters, McCoy, or Jackson looks pretty good doesn’t he? Could have had him too, but Graves/Whiz passed on him just like they did Russell Wilson.

  59. By brad oneill on Dec 2, 2012 | Reply

    Patches- wtf? Graves has done a pretty admirable job given the budget he worked on for years, you cant argue he hasnt attempted to build this team and has made some good choices sometimes things just dont work out. And as for attacking Darren that is just stupid, the guy has always been straightforward with us fans and if he doesnt wish too make an opinion known he lets it be known and usually has a reason. This organization has some issues Darren isn’t one of them.

  60. By Peter in Canada on Dec 2, 2012 | Reply

    I won’t comment on the game because I could add little to what has been said and I hate being negative. On a happier note your Friday post on Dan Williams was prophetic in view of the game he played. His first two seasons made him seem a wasted first round pick although injuries did not help him. It is good to see he has come along this year. Would you not say that 10 tackles for a NT is outstanding in that his primary job is to soak up blockers and leave the glory and the stats to the linebackers?

  61. By Darren Urban on Dec 2, 2012 | Reply

    Peter —

    RE: Dan Williams

    Yes, 10 tackles is a lot for any defensive lineman, not to mention a nose tackle.

  62. By Jesus G on Dec 2, 2012 | Reply

    I don’t think I’ve ever seen such a frustrating game from the Cardinals. Skelton should have been brought back in to WIN the game.

  63. By clssylssy on Dec 2, 2012 | Reply

    Again…everybody is blaming Coach Whisenhunt but in reality he takes his marching orders from someone else, and I would bet that is Rod Graves (Michael Bidwell signs the checks but he acts on advice from his yoda, Graves) . This game was so pathetic but so predictable…I hope that our young players have taken note about how life REALLY works in the NFL. This is a business, a very lucrative business for the owners, and sometimes winning is not profitable or the
    object. Our defense, once again, out played the opposition, and, I know we could have won the game if that was really the goal. The Jets were desperate for a win and had the sense to make a substitution when it was obvious they had nothing to lose. I am past getting upset anymore because it’s wasted emotion. From here on out I’m here for the tailgate, and, on the off chance we manage to win a game, that will be cooL.. BUT, IT IS WHAT IT IS1 🙂

  64. By georgiebird on Dec 2, 2012 | Reply

    It’s a certainty that next week’s starter will be Skelton. Whiz is such a stubborn and vindictive excuse for a HC, that of course he will start Skelton in Seattle. The Seahawks @ Seattle has been our toughest game for QBs and that includes Warner. Whiz is on a vendetta right now and he’d like nothing better than to throw Skelton to the wolves and shut up all the fan talk. Skelton had come off injury and started at Minn & GB and home to the 49ers- so why not cap it off with an @ Seattle game.
    And to think that Alfred Hitchcock could have done so much with the Whiz turned madman theme- maybe even a series.

  65. By georgiebird on Dec 2, 2012 | Reply

    I agree with all the Whiz talk-and if Darren keeps records, he will tell you that I was the 1st guy off the Whiz bandwagon- many, many years ago.
    Now I’m telling you guys something else- DON’T GO OVERRATING RAY HORTON.
    Today, the inept Jets two running backs gained nearly 5 yards a carry. The TD pass play by the 3rd string Jet QB made the Cardinals look silly. Horton’s felt he could sell out against the run on the TD play because he felt the 3rd stringer wouldn’t risk a pass- WRONG!!!.
    Make no mistake about it, the defense is much better than the QB-less offense. But look at the way Minnesota, SF, and GB jumped on our defense in JS”s starts and put him in a hole.
    As Cardinals’ teams go, this is a good defense but Ray Horton for HC- give me a break. There are so many qualified people out there whose knowledge of football goes beyond blitzing linebackers against sub-par QBs.

  66. By Patrick Eagan on Dec 2, 2012 | Reply

    I feel so bad for Ken Whisenhunt. He looked like it was over in the post game conference. Poor Guy. He’s been the only guy since the Cardinals existence to get us to the super bowl. I think not going back to Skelton is the right move. We can win with Skelton. He’s terrible. You can’t Judge Ryan Lindley after 2 games. and Kevin Kolb is hurt. I think the move will be terrilbe if the cardinals decide to fire Ken Whisenhunt.

  67. By redbirdman on Dec 2, 2012 | Reply

    To Mike Allen…

    You seem to like Whisenhunt but for reasons that escape me. How in the name of Christ can you defend this guy?

    After six seasons he has a losing record and if not for that improbable hot streak they had during the 2009 playoffs that got them to the SB they would have nothing to show for Whisenhunt’s coaching.

    As for Grimm coaching up the fourth and seventh round tackles I’m not sure that he should be given any accolades since that’s his job. Also, look at the offensive line’s lack of pass protection and the team’s lack of a running game.

    Year after year it’s been a joke. Take a look at the number of sacks we’ve given up since Warner’s retirement. I’d also suggest that Todd Haley had something to do with our success on offense during Warner’s time with us. Whisenhunt and Grimm had little to do with that. And if you believe they did than how do you explain the abysmal performance of this team since 2010?

    Sorry dude but you are so wrong about Whisenhunt and Grimm. They are frauds pure and simple.

  68. By kauaicardsfan on Dec 2, 2012 | Reply

    Hey Darren,
    Do we have scouts for certain positions only? Like QB? Reason I’m asking is as far back as I can remember the only QB that we drafted that was good was Neil Lomax. I barely remember Jim Hart.
    Plummer was okay but didnt light it up like Neil did.
    I think if we have a specialized QB scout team I think they should be gone before we draft again?

    All the other QB’s that we had was all grabbed from other teams that didnt want them anymore. Only Kurt so far is the exception.

    IDK already looking ahead, all left on this season is seeing who we are keeping and getting rid of!

    Very Painful year! Feel sorry for the Defense, they are the bright light in this sad season!

  69. By Darren Urban on Dec 3, 2012 | Reply

    Kauai —

    RE: Scouts

    Scouts look at every position. They are broken up into regions of the country, not by position.

  70. By Dean Kennedy on Dec 2, 2012 | Reply

    To: Dave the depressed ST holder – Remember when the story was that a new stadium was all that was needed to have a winner? So much for that, huh? The Bidwills got Jiffy Pop Stadium built for them, now they have the concession business at Jiffy Pop with their Rojo company, and it’s worse than it ever was in the “uncompetitive” SDS days.

  71. By Joey on Dec 2, 2012 | Reply

    You have to try QB’s out until you get a good one… It is pretty obvious who is a good QB. It is also pretty important to have a good QB… The Cardinals should be looking everywhere to find a guy.. They should be looking for Kurt Warner Jr. stocking shelves.. If they head up to Canada, I saw a guy in the CFL Grey Cup last weekend better than anyone the Cards have. He performed at half time.. His name is Justin Bieber….

  72. By Cody Zarr on Dec 2, 2012 | Reply


    Thank you, I didn’t realize you had already published it.

  73. By Rio on Dec 2, 2012 | Reply

    I am like fireman Mike,i am quiting this blog ,can’t take Coach Wiz any more.

    It is goodbye forever just can’t bear to watch what coach is doing.

  74. By georgiebird on Dec 2, 2012 | Reply

    Hey guys- when you spell the owner’s name wrong, how can you expect anyone to take your post seriously.

  75. By Dean Kennedy on Dec 2, 2012 | Reply

    To brad: Perhaps Bill Parcells says it best: “You are what your record says you are”. Any questions?

    And while we knight Graves for his wonderful deeds, let us ask who is responsible for the current lack of talent on the offensive line? What about the two recent lousy signings, Heap and Bradley? Look at the Cardinals draft history and tell me Graves compares favorably to the winners in the NFL. Busts galore, Alan Branch, Buster (no pun intended, that’s his name) Davis, Cody Brown, Beanie’s pretty much there, Levi Brown, there’s more. Oh and maybe you’re a new guy, let’s flash back to 2003 when Graves trades down of a high pick to grab two scrubs (Johnson and Pace) he could sign. Oh, but it’s all Whis’ fault? Well no, that doesn’t work either. After Denny Green got fired and the perception was that the Cardinals were stacked with talent that Denny couldn’t get to execute, Graves stepped up and said he was in fact the man who brought in all of that talent. So if he’s the man, he ‘s the man.

    Look, can Graves be a guy that can cobble together a team that can go 8-8 every once in a while? Who knows, but probably. Is that the goal? if Graves stays past the new year we will know the answer to that question. Firing Whis and keeping Graves is nothing more than tail chasing.

  76. By Dean Kennedy on Dec 2, 2012 | Reply

    I apologize to Urban for crossing the line. That said, he is in fact what amounts to a spokesman for the Cardinals, he has to spin what’s going on or he becomes a former spokesman. The bigger problem is the shills in the local media like Paola Boivin and her hack job today making the case for Whis.. it’s fair to say i could never have Urban’s job, I would be fired by lunchtime my first day.

  77. By redbirdman on Dec 2, 2012 | Reply

    Let’s put an end to all of this debate.

    Here it is in a nutshell.

    To quote Bill Parcells, “you are what your record says you are”, which in the case of the Cardinals is 44 and 48 after today’s loss to the Jests.

    Here’s the rest of our schedule:

    12/9 – Seahawks in their house
    12/16 – Lions at home
    12/23 – Bears at home
    12/30 – Forty-Niners in their house

    So who thinks they’ll win one of these last four games? I say they don’t win any of them and finish 4-12.

  78. By Patrick Eagan on Dec 2, 2012 | Reply

    anyone who thinks were better off with Ray Horton as Head Coach more than Ken Whisenhunt….. be careful what you wish for.

  79. By brandonLA on Dec 2, 2012 | Reply

    As the official red pants monitor, it is my duty to inform you that we have not worn red pants all season. fyi

  80. By canadian redbird on Dec 2, 2012 | Reply


    I think Whiz’s win – loss record should be the deciding factor in how this team’s moves forward. WHIZ’s philosophy of everyone being accountable will in fact cost him his job at the end of the season. I agree with the Card faithful that his ego got between him putting Skelton in the second half to resurrect a sorryful first 30 min. As well, Whiz was part of the war room that made decisions on which players to draft. Most coaches have a shelf like and its time to restock the shelves. I don’t agree that there will be teams lined up for his services as a HC or OC. Its a forgone conclusion that Miller and Grimm will not be retained. It hurts to watch your team perform offensively like it did today. I guess we became spoiled during the Warner days.

    Its nice that there is success stories with our games. I thought Dan Williams had a break out game. GO CARDS!!!!!!

  81. By Jim in Missouri on Dec 2, 2012 | Reply

    Probably an unfair question, but any speculation on what has happened with Skelton from the end of training camp, when he was “The Man,” to today?

    I don’t think it’s overstating it to say that 2 NFL QBs saw their careers (effectively) end today. Lindley was so overmatched and unable to do anything, it was like seeing a starting pitcher being left in for a complete game as the opposing team hangs about 30 runs on him.

    And for Skelton to see this and know the coaches didn’t think he could do any better? That has to be the ultimate blow to any confidence he may have had remaining.

    The pass that Lindley had Fitz open on an out route for a first down and he just fireballed it about 5 yards past him looked a lot like the Skelton throw he missed Fitz on in the end zone in Atlanta – and that got Skelton the hook.

  82. By Mr Robles on Dec 3, 2012 | Reply

    Still cant believe they let Manning outta the building, without a contract.

  83. By horned frog on Dec 3, 2012 | Reply

    Seattle is surging towards a wild-card birth. They’re going to crush this offense behind the 12th man. It’s going to be U-G-L-Y, even Darren knows this.

  84. By Madriffs on Dec 3, 2012 | Reply

    Hey Darren,

    I’m just gonna blame the Offensive coaching on this one. It is sad to think that every QB on this Cardinals roster is this horrible. Lindley had promise, so did all of the last 6 or so QB’s. Is it not a coaches job to make sure that his team understands the plays and the routes and how to execute them? Wow. The Offensive coaches should all be fired.

  85. By suspence716 on Dec 3, 2012 | Reply

    People really think that the bidwills are telling whiz what to do when it comes to play calling and starting qb’s? Wow!!! Whiz is the one pulling all the strings here with this team. What you think the bidwills said to him, hey don’t name your starting quarterback ever until after preseason is over? Some of you people are halucinating!!!!! Whiz is just not a good head coach, the proof is in the pudding. The offense has been going downhill since warner/ haley left the organization. Tell me how that is possible with an offensive minded coach? You get worse every year, but you’re supposed to be an offensive guru? I think not! Thats why the play calling is so predictable and has been since haley left. Common sense, simple common sense!

  86. By dan on Dec 3, 2012 | Reply

    I say fire Whiz and hire Horton as Head Coach before its too late. Fire the OC as well.

  87. By dan on Dec 3, 2012 | Reply

    I see plenty of other RC’s not looking like Lindley. Obviously Whiz doesn’t know QB talent, that’s pretty obvious. We should change his name to Coach Whiffenhunt.

  88. By jason marcus on Dec 3, 2012 | Reply

    Is everyone in agreement that Lindley sucks and pulling Skelton out so fast was a mistake cmon people what the hell happened out there?

  89. By Dave Chaney on Dec 3, 2012 | Reply

    I read that there was a possibility The Whiz was trying to throw the game to improve the Cards draft pick so they could take Matt Barkley of USC. Barkley happens to be from the same school that produced Todd Marinovich, Matt Leinart and Mark Sanchez so if we get him, we are set. As the team (yes folks, the team, not the offense or defense) continues to blast their way into the record books this year (1st team EVER to win first 4 games and then lose 8 straight and after yesterday, the 1st team since 1970 to go 0-15 in 3rd down conversions in a game) there is very, very little to cheer about. And considering the good fortunes of this franchise, isn’t it appropriate that in the year we desperately need a franchise QB, there isn’t one coming out of college! I was beginning to worry after our SB appearance and playoff caliber teams that the Big Red were moving into strange territory. I’m very relieved to see they are settling back into a familiar losing mode. This franchise has always been a JOKE in the NFL and nothing has changed.

  90. By johnnybluenose on Dec 3, 2012 | Reply

    darren, what, if anything, has bidwill said for the record about our team this season ?

  91. By Darren Urban on Dec 3, 2012 | Reply

    johnnybluenose —

    RE: Bidwill

    Michael has not commented publicly at all.

  92. By MIKE G on Dec 3, 2012 | Reply

    Hey Darren–Hope u r well! Gonna be a tough one at the Card’s facility this week. Losing eight straight is not easy. This team is really struggling offensively and they have so many new pieces that cohesion is just not present. That was really frustrating to watch yesterday given the way our defense played. To win the turnover battle again and lose the game is really disheartening.
    I really dont think this team has multiple problems–it is simply finding a QB who can be productive at this point. I really think Lindley is just very raw and needs more time on the practice field to develop before he can produce in a real game. My gut tells me that Whiz and his staff believe their future QB may not be on their current roster. Unfortunately if this team spirals into an 11-12 game losing streak some jobs may be on the line. It is a win now league like you said and that’s why the coaches make the big bucks—W’S is what it is all about. Darren- Do you think the Bidwell’s will give Whiz and staff a pass for the rest of this year if the Card’s spiral into a 10-11 game losing streak???? I know ownership likes Whiz- he has done some really good things in Arizona(Super Bowl Appearance, one losing season prior to this year) but how patient will they be if the QB situation does not get resolved????

  93. By D on Dec 3, 2012 | Reply

    Hang in there Darren, you only have 4 more weeks of this….the pick by 21 was one of the best I have seen….if Mr. B wants to keep this defense rolling next year, they better keep Horton….

  94. By Australian Cards Supporter on Dec 3, 2012 | Reply

    Every monday night here in Sydney Australia I watch the Cardinals game on delay. Religously. Ive set up a bar at my house dedicated to the cards.
    I have loved the Cards for several years now since Madden 07 to be precise when I could run a 1000 yard game with Edgerrin James. I’ve grown with the Cards and was fortunate enough to be a fan through the 08 and 09 seasons. There have been ups and downs and the last few seasons have obviously been tough. None as tough as this season.
    Take the first four games out and I would be equally as disappointed. Its not about what could have been makes this hard, its what we have every week and fail to use that hurts. It scares me now that the next few years will be tainted by this season because all our talent will move on. And like the first comment has said, I have never lost faith in whiz till now. Im bitterly saddened by what I saw tonight and at the very least I hope something come from of it. I hate seeing potential wasted by poor decisions.

    Many thanks Darren as always.

    If any Sydney Cards fans want to come join me to watch out the rest of the season then send a message on my bars FB by clicking my name. Monday nights 7pm

  95. By CORMAC on Dec 3, 2012 | Reply

    There must be a nice first draft pick they are aiming for,…. BRILLIANT!!!!

  96. By Rugbymuffin on Dec 3, 2012 | Reply

    If this is a business, then I want my money back.

    I pay money to watch NFL football.

    I can produce what I see yesterday in my toilet bowl for free every morning.

    That was a disgrace to the NFL yesterday, and Whiz deserves to be fired TODAY


    I would say “Same ol’ Cardinals:” but the Same ol’ Cardinals weren’t even this bad.

  97. By cardsalltheway on Dec 3, 2012 | Reply

    brad oneill,
    “Graves has done a pretty admirable job”

    Spoken like a drunk Irishman.


  98. By Rich on Dec 3, 2012 | Reply

    sometimes change is needed to invigorate an initiative. its time for change with the Cards. Graves and Whiz are good guys. But their time is complete. Good news is the Cards can promote from within. Keim to replace Graves as GM. Horton to replace Whiz as HC.

  99. By chad on Dec 3, 2012 | Reply

    Do you have the stat’s on the O-line? I think that was the best game they played all year…

    How far out is Kolb?

    Also, one more crazy question. But, it’s 3 weeks in a row now that I have heard it brought up in the game by the announcers. So my question is: Fitz they keep suggesting that he should be traded… Is there anything to this? If so do you have any examples of what return value we would be looking at?

  100. By Darren Urban on Dec 3, 2012 | Reply

    Chad —

    RE: Questions

    There aren’t really any stats on the O-Line, unless you want to check out the metrics on something like

    Kolb is an unknown.

    Fitz isn’t being traded. It’s an easy storyline to go to for a star when a team is struggling. But for many reasons, it won’t happen.

  101. By The Square Ball on Dec 3, 2012 | Reply

    Ken must go immediately,

    he’s a nice HC, but he fits no more to Arizona’s.
    Replacing Skelton when leading a game for 16 points (2 td’s at least), for a rookie QB that after that has shown nothing, absolutely nothing but a bunch of interceptions, and our so-called head coach did not replace him in New York? com’on folks, in a high profile market such as football no one can deny it’s time whiz to go… put horton as HC before we lost him as we lost Boldin & Co.

    Poor play isn’t the whole deal, poor play calling is as well, bad decisions within the building, a change is needed right away. I had remaind in silent till last game, but cannot any longer, can’t see it no more.

    All we need is to Draft a QB next draft, if no star is available by cardinals position, so draft an Olineman and be patient for 2 more years.

    on the other hand I agree with clssylssy, that’s business, maybe the play calls was just a matter of interest, hope you’re right buddy, but, and BUT when this interest is to win games?

  102. By Cert 33 on Dec 3, 2012 | Reply

    Another great effort on the road by the Cards defense. Great job guys! Looks like we are going to pick high in the draft. Since there won’t be any NFL “starter” caliber QB’s available until “Johnny Football” (Manziel) enters the draft in a couple of years, I think Stepfan Taylor would be a good fit for the Cards. The rest of the draft should be spent on offensive linemen, especially tackles. Also definitely need to get rid of Skelton and Lindley, bring in some old veteran QB’s with at least 10 years in the NFL to back up Kevin Kolb. We just can’t keep ruining these great defensive efforts with all the “three and outs”. Defense is on the field so long that they are “out of gas” in the 4th qtr. And all the wasted turnover opportunities!

  103. By VonKromDom on Dec 3, 2012 | Reply


    In your opinion, what is the likelihood of a head coaching change in-season?

  104. By Darren Urban on Dec 3, 2012 | Reply

    VonKrom —

    RE: coach change in-season

    I don’t see one in-season.

  105. By joe67 on Dec 3, 2012 | Reply

    Look at it this way……..

    If Skelton Lindley Kolb was in Denver, the Broncos wouldn’t be as bad as the Cards…and

    If Peyton Manning was here with the Cards, we wouldn’t be as good as the Broncos……………

    What does that tell you???!?!??

  106. By jocards on Dec 3, 2012 | Reply

    I’ll admit that I really don’t know what to say…I suppose Ryan Lindley might look better than Skelton does in practice but he clearly does not give the team the best chance to win on Sundays. I’ve defended Whisenhunt in the past because I really don’ think this team is as good as some fans want to believe it is but I can’t defend his handling of the QB situation. Ryan Lindley looks worse than bad, he looks absolutely overmatched, confused and really seems to have no business playing at this level at this time. With even marginal play from the QB position the team could’ve won any or all of their last 3 games but instead we’ve lost all three because of the QB. I knew when coach made the move to Lindley in Atlanta that he had painted himself into a corner leaving himself very few options if things went badly but even I didn’t believe he’d simply pilot the plane into the ground merely to avoid acknowledging a mistake or at least appearing to be grasping for solutions. Some folks will undoubtedly say that there is no guarantee that Skelton would’ve played better……yeah, there is no GUARENTEE that anybody would’ve played better but any reasonable person can see the fallacy in that line of thinking. If this team was owned by anybody but the Bidwill family I’d say Whisenhunt would be excused from his duties after the season with the Bidwills one can’t be certain though. It isn’t because of the team’s record I believe that the time has come, like I said I don’t think this team is all that good….However if Whisnhunt honestly thinks that Lindley gives the team the best chance to win then we have a big problem at the top and if he is just unwilling to go back on a bad decision merely in an attempt to “save face” then we also have a big problem. I know there are some that will disagree but I believe we need to go in a different direction.

  107. By erik on Dec 3, 2012 | Reply

    Whiz is a joke. He is such a hypocrite there is no way a single player in that locker room follows him.

    FIRE Whiz! I hardly ever comment, but even a day later, when I normally calm down, I am insulted. Fire that D#@n Coach NOW!!!

    We cannot draft a QB next year if Whiz is still our coach. He will ruin whoever we could get!

    HOw he can call his system “proven” is beyond me. What an arrogant SOB

  108. By rimrunner on Dec 3, 2012 | Reply

    there is only one explaination i can think of for this embarrassing season bidwells told whiz and graves to TANK the season to get a high draft pick its the only explanation i canthink of for not coaching.

  109. By jocards on Dec 3, 2012 | Reply

    Anybody that is at all familiar with my posts knows full well that I am not a big believer in John Skelton but there is no way that I am prepared to believe that Ryan Lindley gives the team a better chance to win….no way. I have never believed that winning is a top priority for the Bidwill family but I at least believed that it was for coach Whisenhunt….Now that is open to question. This is the NFL not some developmental league. You owe it to the team, the fans and to the integrity of the league to put your best players on the field in an attempt to win each Sunday. Now obviously there does come a time for a team to play some guys in an attempt to see what they have for the future but the timing of this QB change was ill advised. The team still had an opportunity to make something of the season and in fact could’ve won any or all of the last three games with even decent QB play. Something just doesn’t seem to be quite right here.

  110. By wnycardfan on Dec 3, 2012 | Reply

    Echo most of the comments here
    DEF played awesome. Rhodes, Dan Williams, PP, etc. Great job
    As usual, great job by the punter as well (seriously, but not funny to say)
    OFF – stunk it up even worse then I thought they would. I’ll give kudos to OL for only 2 sacks and not a complete debacle (ie penalties with new center etc). But other than that. the group stank. Running game is crap. Wells, hate to say it, he’s 3rd string material. Powell should be 1st string at this point (just keep looking at his avg). No one would do too well with this OL (and the most poorly made play calling around), but you “go with who is best”. HELLO, Powell is the guy right now.
    QB, I don’t know what to say. It does look like Skeleton ticked Whiz off beyond just playing sub par (per the last 5 years we’ve seen what LOOKS like a WHIZ ego driven demotion). Nevertheless, I don’t think any of these guys could do much with this team. Kolb MAYBE, but he ain’t going to be a savior. He’s one sack away from the hospital, hasn’t played in what, 7 weeks??? OL totally cahnges sense then etc.. Forget it.
    Whiz needs to go. Miller needs to go (like last year) and Grimm needs to go (like 4 years ago). Graves, yeah him too. I keep thinking of the Colts who let Poulian go when they discovered the hard way they hadn’t drafter or planned for a back up for Payton. WTH, I think Graves has some accountability for this disaster of the last 3 years.

  111. By Louisville Card on Dec 3, 2012 | Reply

    Hi Darren,

    Another rough loss but looks like we have a good chance at picking 3rd which really helps the chance of a quick turnaround to a contender next year.

    Darren, with the turnover I’m sure the cards will see next year,do you expect Rhodes back? As well as he has been playing this year seems like he deserves another year. I know alot will depend on who’s coaching next season but what do you think will happen…

  112. By Darren Urban on Dec 3, 2012 | Reply

    Louisville —

    RE: Rhodes

    Rhodes is under contract for 2013.

  113. By rdixon50 on Dec 3, 2012 | Reply

    Patches O’Houlihan / Dean Kennedy – I’m a University of Kentucky grad and would like you to change Glentucky to Glenginia, or Glenessee, or Glenarkansas. Those are about the only three that are comparable to Kentucky. Thanks.

  114. By Campbells on Dec 3, 2012 | Reply

    3-games ago, we were in the hunt for a Wild Card. Despite 3-embarrassing losses, we’re still 1-game out of Wild Card consideration. Whiz sank us 3-games ago, while we were winning 13-0. Lindley averaging 10 points in 3-games (11 quarters). Not a single third down conversion yesterday. Less than 30 yards of offense in the second half!!! Lindley was only sacked twice, so pressure wasn’t the culprit. All the while Whiz claims this guy gives us the best chance to win. The entire universe should take offense that Whiz thinks we’re completely clueless. If not for the fake punt, we would have less than 100 total yards of offense all day.
    For those of you thinking we just keep getting bad apples when selecting QB’s, I wish you had the benefit of a lengthy discussion with Luck, and RG 111. I guarantee neither of these successful gentlemen would claim their success is a result of superior genes. They’ve both been carefully groomed for success. Our coaches are incapable of grooming QB’s for success. They’ve demonstrated this over and over. Season is almost over, and our offensive line is finally showing signs of life. Another coaching failure. We’re not the only team with injuries. Last night Steelers were effective, after moving their center over to guard, and inserting a backup center.
    Our team has issues across the board, but our Achilles heel is the incompetent coaching staff. They lack the knowledge, vision, and tools to put our players in position to win. Whiz continues to avoid responsibility for this team’s predicament. Funny to hear him say, he’s impressed that the locker room has remained undivided, despite his constant finger-pointing.

  115. By Cardinalsnomore on Dec 3, 2012 | Reply

    I’m done with this team until a new coach comes in. It’s not because of the losing, it’s just the coaching itself.
    I was always on Ken’s side but I can’t be anymore.
    What finally sealed the deal for me was this – he pulled Skelton in the Atlanta game because (he missed some plays. In what 8 throws?).
    Then he says “I have to be consistent. If you aren’t making plays, we will put someone in who will.QB can’t be the exception to the rule” that is pretty much what he said.
    In the Falcons and jets game, I want to say Lindley was 0-26 on 3rd down, not to mention he threw two pick sixes in the Rams game.
    That isn’t “making plays” either.
    So why did he stick with him? Because he is a idiot that is why – who is also a ignorant hypocrite with a inflated ego.
    What happened to “The QB can’t be the exception to the rule.”
    John is better than that for sure, without a doubt.
    In fact, I believe the move to pull John, cost the Cardinals the last three games in a row.
    I think they could have won them all, two at worst.
    The play calling as has been the worst this year that, I have ever seen since Whiz’s time here.
    He didn’t put John back in because he doesn’t want to admit to everyone he made a big mistake putting Lindley in.
    There is a lot of pieces to work with on this team, with a very good draft (tackle) and a QB and a few also signings in free agency – this is a Superbowl team.
    Just not with this coach, if I was the owner, I’d fire everyone right now, except Ray Horton.
    I’d promote him to head coach and sign him to a three year contract.

  116. By Chris Lewis on Dec 3, 2012 | Reply

    Just when you think it can’t get any worse, it does. What’s it gonna take to turn this pitiful team around? What’s frustrating is that we have the talent to win, we’re just not executing. Things like Lindley missing a wide open Fitz, A-Dub making a bonehead offside penalty to pretty much seal the win for the Jets, etc., etc. The Jets are horrible and should’ve never won that game, but somehow we find a different way to lose every week. I’ve never seen an offense so pathetic. What’d we go, 0-15 on 3rd down? How is that possible? It would be easy to blame Lindley, but it’s not fair to throw him to the wolves, he’s obviously not ready. I don’t know why it’s taking Kolb so long to come back. It’s been 2 mo. We need him desperately. It looks like 9 losses in a row, as I don’t see us beating Seattle, especially in Seattle. Once again, our defense was stellar w/ 4 turnovers, and ocne again the worst offense in the league let the team down. This is so hard for me to watch every week. It literally makes me sick to my stomach. After last year’s finish and this year’s start, I never thought things could go south so quickly and for so long. Changes have to be made. We desperately need a QB, and I like Whiz, but I’m starting to question his coaching decisions. As far as the OC, Mike Miller needs to go, his play calling is a joke. I can’t believe how many times I’ve seen where we’ve had say a 3rd and 8 and the QB throws 4 yds. No wonder we never get a 1st down. I’m not the smartest guy, but c’mon, it’s common sense that says if you need 8 yrds. for 1st down, throw it at least 8 yds. I don’t know why I even waste my time writing this article, I guess I just ned to vent. Anyway, if anyone has anything to comment on, I’d appreciate it. GO CARDS!!!!!

  117. By stevedco on Dec 3, 2012 | Reply

    I don’t post much here as most people are just trolls.

    Russ Grimm – new LG, new RT, new LT and now new center with a new QB. Why is this guy a scrub? How much talent has Graves given him? He has done an amazing job building a line this year and with Brown, Massie and Potter we may have 3 OT next year. Wonder if Brown can move to guard?

    Whiz has taken a bunch or poor QBs and won games. He has never had a decent QB to work with except Kurt Warner. Warner arrived as a journey man QB to help mentor Matt like he did Eli. Whiz helped rebuild his career. Green had Warner on the bench.

    Graves, this one is hard. He has brought in the talent on the defensive side of the ball. He brought in Roberts, Doucet and Fitz to be a very good receiving core. Has he failed at the QB position, yes? But I ask the simple question, what could he have done istead? He went all in and the best QB available with Kolb. Should he have drafted Ponder over Patrick Peterson, of course not.

    In recent times there have been 3 great QBs move team. Peyton Manning, we tried. Drew Brees, didn’t try and Kurt Warner, even though no one knew he was great. Flaco or Rivers aren’t going to make it to FA. Alex Smith or Matt Flyn may be our QB in 2013.

    I get people want to win now but there is one major hole left on this team. it just happens to be the one you can’t win without, QB. Yes there are needs elsewhere but nothing is bigger than QB. If this team had an average QB they would be a playoff team and comp[ete for NFCW title.

    And layoff Darren, this is his job, to write about the Arizona Cardinals. If you want to blame someone write to Bill Bidwill.

  118. By sarah on Dec 3, 2012 | Reply

    No excuse for Lindley’s play yesterday, did not convert a first down on 15 straight attempts. I do not blame Lindley rather the coach for putting him in this crazy situation. Whiz threw the last 3 games and is now blaming the receivers for running the wrong schematic routes yesterday !

  119. By Tucson Card on Dec 3, 2012 | Reply

    Stating the obvious — yesterdays lost was really dispiriting.

    It seemed to me that the coaching staff left Lindley in the game for eval purposes.
    They aren’t going to keep all 3 quarterbacks on the roster next year, and are trying to figure out which ones to keep, and which ones to waive.

    I think they should have gone for the win instead of the eval/development of a rookie qb; but I’m not the coach so not my call.

    The defense is exceptional, I really like their attitude. Fitzgerald is a true leader, through the best and worst of times.

  120. By Patches O'Houlihan on Dec 3, 2012 | Reply

    To brandonLA: I’d guess the data from the Disney Institute says red pants are a loser when it comes to incremental jersey sales at the team shop and elsewhere. So it’s frequent black jerseys instead.

    I pity the souls who have to work the Big Red Service Team phones from here on out. Mikey and his Disney enablers should give them the rest of the year off with pay.

  121. By Patches O'Houlihan on Dec 3, 2012 | Reply

    to rdixon: LOL, duly noted sir. Truth be told, I heard the Glentucky label from fellow ST holders a few years ago, only used to indicate the distance to be driven to Jiffy Pop Stadium and the obvious rhyming possibilities.

  122. By Dean Kennedy on Dec 3, 2012 | Reply

    Last week I was kind of feeling sorry for Whis, a guy working hard but seemingly having no clue. So an in-season coaching change would have been a mercy move, hand him his check and wish him well. But after yesterday and what looks like a scorched earth move in the whole Lindley is lost affair I am completely opposed to any move before the end of the season. Make Whis drag himself out there every Sunday to coach this thing until the bitter end. Then hand him his check. Another plus is that it’s four more weeks of money in the bank for the Bidwills, let’s see $5 million times 0.9% for a month, that’s $3,750! Righteous bucks!

  123. By Rob on Dec 3, 2012 | Reply

    You know, I’m not sure about all the politics, although it does seem like something is wrong up there. But all I can say is this- How can you guys keep saying “we know what we have with skelton, might as well keep sticking with lindley”

    Are you out of your mind? Skelton has never played as badly as Lindley. Skelton has never gone HALF as long without a 3rd down conversion, Skelton has never thrown 4 picks (2 or 3 returned for touchdowns), among dropped balls and terrible passes. Skelton had 300yards against GREEN BAY.

    I’m tired of seeing Skelton on the sideline. I’m tired of people criticizing him instead of just giving him the chance. When he had the chance last seas and he wasn’t worried about losing his job, HE WENT 6 and 2!!!! Did everyone forget about that? This guy has some serious talent. Yes, he misses passes sometimes, but all good quarterbacks miss passes.

  124. By Phxhiker on Dec 3, 2012 | Reply

    I admit I’ve been critical of Whiz for the past two seasons. But I think my complaints have merit. I think yesterdays decisions by Whiz proves the point over and over. His stubborness to resist change or say he is wrong is old.

    I’ve been a season ticket holder since the second season. My wife and I have paid thousands of dollars for our seats in the RIng of Honor since the stadium opened. No longer. Whiz and his policy of never changing has forced me from the bandwagon.

    This is my last year as a season ticket holder.

  125. By Dave Chm on Dec 3, 2012 | Reply

    I bet you Alabama could stop our Offense for god sakes. Its honestly Embarressing to support this team. Oh well 4-12, and lets draft good, were close to being dangerous.

  126. By lg on Dec 3, 2012 | Reply

    i do not want whiz gone but i want ray horton to stay if it takes making ray the head coach then we need to do that

  127. By donttakelosses on Dec 3, 2012 | Reply

    We lost 7-6 in East coast game.

    Remember the days when that was a superlative? Add 3 more lineman, 1 more QB.. back in bid’ness.

  128. By john the draft guy on Dec 3, 2012 | Reply


    Wow, you got a few people attacking you. I guess they don’t know the saying, “don’t kill the messenger”.

    I guess your article should have said Lindley sucks and Whiz doesn’t know what is is doing.

    Two separate questions,

    Was Whiz calling the plays yesterday? It looked like it. I liked the game plan. i thought Floyd could get behind the defense and Housler could work over the middle and take a shot with Fitz when he was one on one. Problem was, execution. Lindley was really bad. I mean bring back Stan Gelbaugh and Max Hall bad. But anyway, was Whiz doing the play calling?

    second, with ADub coming ff the field on nickle and he just doesn’tlook himself the last couple weeks. He jumped off sides twice to give up first downs. I dont know and I don’t want this to happen, but do you know if he is on his way out?

  129. By Darren Urban on Dec 3, 2012 | Reply

    John the draft guy —

    RE: Questions

    1) I don’t know if he was calling the plays. It was hard to think of anything positive offensively coming out of that performance.

    2) I don’t know that, but obviously, Wilson is coming to the end of his career. Is that now? We will see.

  130. By suspence716 on Dec 3, 2012 | Reply

    And to think I really wanted to spend my upcoming tax return on season tickets for next year. I was also planning on attending the lions and bears games before the season started this year. Watching how this team has performed and the portrayed lack of giving a care by the coaching staff has pressed my wallet back together and the money will not be spent on parking, concessions, tickets and beer. I used to spend my money going to watch a lack luster of a loser of a team back at sun devil stadium. I have multiple cardinals jerseys hangin in my closet going back to plummer. I have cardinals clock, bracelets n necklaces from games, bobbleheads, beach towel, hand towel, face mask, mutiple cardinals hats, ring, sandals, slippers, bath mats, bed set w comforter, pajama pants, mugs, drinking glasses, sunglasses, sweatshirts, mini helmet, football and shower curtain. Yes I really do have all this stuff with cardinals logos or names on it. I am a huge supporter of this franchise and have spent alot of my hard earned money (working construction) on this team. So long as whisenhunt is the coach and they keep allowing him to pull the strings my wallet is closed and anybody who gets me anything cardinals for christmas I will be returning/ exchanging it to the store. My support is further reserved until this franchise gets serious about winning again. Go Patriots!!!!!!

  131. By BIG RED on Dec 3, 2012 | Reply

    @chris lewis, you wonder why it’s taken kolb so long to get back in the action. This guy is just here to milk the cow, that’s what he did at Philliy and now here in AZ. Remember, Warner how he played with one arm and never complain, now that’s a professional QB. Kolb should not even be consider to come back next year. We all know he will miss more than half of the season next year (fragile rock) if he comes back. This organization is so stupid that they would pay his salary this coming year. KOLB is not the answer!!!! Another thing, I just hope he gets to start against Seattle, so we can see the end of all this nonsense.

  132. By hotValleySun on Dec 3, 2012 | Reply

    It is obvious this is turning out to be the worst year under Whiz. Including 2012, whiz has two losing seasons. No other cards coach for past 50 years was as good as Whiz. Yet, many of us want this guy fired? I don’t get it.

    Do we think Jon Gruden, Bill Cowher, Any Reid want to coach the cardinals without a QB? Is Rod Graves going to un-earth the next Bellichick or Harbaugh?

    You cannot bring back Kurt Warner. But Whiz’s mistake is not hiring Todd Haley when he was available in 2012. Let Whiz stay and help him to find a QB. Plus with other corrections like new OC, OL coach, new GM etc cards will be relevant again..

  133. By Jahstone on Dec 3, 2012 | Reply

    I think Whiz is about to release his auto biography…”Dispicable me”.

  134. By Bryan on Dec 3, 2012 | Reply


    Kind of a random question but do you feel your role is more of giving the fans an inside view of the organization and team though it may be filtered/biased due to the Cardinals organization controling it or do you view it more as any outside journalist would like a Mike Sando at ESPN etc?

    I’m often struck by how non-critical some of the main Cardinals beat writers are with regards to this organization, GM, HC. I feel like they would be getting ripped to shreds in any other town for the way they have managed their 1st round picks, their QB and OL talent, and some of the coaching decisions that have been made.

    Do you think its just a result of the Cards historically being a terrible organization and the small market?

    I view you a bit different since you are obviously employed by the very organization in question that you would be shredding- not to say I don’t like your writing, as its very solid.

    Just curious – I imagine it is an awkward situation regardless.

  135. By Darren Urban on Dec 3, 2012 | Reply

    Bryan —

    RE: My role/journalism market

    There’s a lot of philosophy embedded in how I would answer. As for myself, I try to stay as close to where I was when I worked for a newspaper covering the team. Obviously, that doesn’t work in every circumstance. But no one tells me what to write and I try to be fair. Some fans get mad at me because they don’t think I’m harsh enough, but I’ve also been on the other end here where people have felt I was too harsh. (Although I have never been told to take anything down, nor have I done so).

    Part of it is that I simply don’t get overly emotional about things. I want to see the team do well, yes. But I don’t get angry when the team does not do well. I try and look at the situation as pragmatically as possible. I think you can say a team is playing poorly and IMO it means the same as if you use more colorful, hit-over-the-head-with-a-hammer language.

    The Phoenix market has never been New York, Boston or Philly. It just isn’t. Sometimes that’s bad. Sometimes it needs to be tougher. But I’d argue that in those markets, the same reason they get rough in those areas are the same reasons the media goes overboard in too many situations. I think there are flaws in that type of journalism as well.

    I get that people see me as different. I can’t make people think one way or the other. It doesn’t matter either. I write what I write, and people can read it or not. I do think that, because I am the most accessible person around the team that somehow I end up with the criticism I don’t deserve just because some fans feel no one else is listening.

  136. By jocards on Dec 3, 2012 | Reply

    To folks that lay into Darren for not coming out and ripping this team, the coaches, ownership, etc. please get real. This is his job. Try considering what would happen to you if you were to just let fly with unfiltered criticism toward the hierarchy of the company for which you work.

  137. By "Whiz n Punt-goodbye" on Dec 3, 2012 | Reply

    Dave Chm:

    I am pretty sure my nephews little league team could stop our offense. Usually we just stop ourself.

    Mr Robles: I am pretty sure that if Manning had signed he would be in intensive care at this point. I am sure he saw through Whiz’s BS and knew he was a horrible coach with is same ole same ole comments about sticking with the program. How is that working. Manning probably has more coaching talent that Whiz could ever imagine.

    I think Fitz would give all the money back if the Cards would trade him. They have taken one of the best in NFL history and are turning him into a joke. 750K per game to get 1 catch- he would give it all up just to go to a team with owners who want to win.

    Seattle= LOSS

    4-12 and Whiz won’t be fired because they owe him 1 more season.

  138. By theuglitruth on Dec 3, 2012 | Reply

    Before yesterday…I was a staunch Whiz supporter. I cannot say the same today.

  139. By jocards on Dec 3, 2012 | Reply

    Darren –

    For what it’s worth I agree with your assessment about Beanie Wells…..He just didn’t look right to me.

  140. By Cardsfan75 on Dec 3, 2012 | Reply


    Who in the organization is in charge of grooming QB’s. It seems other teams in the division, and league, do much better with, seemingly, less talent.

  141. By theuglitruth on Dec 3, 2012 | Reply

    Bidwell should be questioned as well! The season ticket holders need answers!

  142. By Kevin S on Dec 3, 2012 | Reply

    Sarah —

    Re: your comment above directed at me — I have never once suggested you aren’t allowed to comment. And regarding Atlanta, I was in agreement with many that the timing of pulling Skelton in that game was questionable. I’m not defending that decision of Whiz; I never have. I am not surprised that, having made the decision, he stuck with Lindley the rest of the ATL game, and gave him the start in STL. And in the latter case, it looked like the right move for at least a half, as Lindley led our offense to its most points in any half this season other than the first half of the PHI game. But then it fell apart for him. I would not have pulled Lindley in that game, just as I would not have pulled Skelton when we did in ATL.

    If I were the HC and trying to win yesterday’s game, I absolutely would’ve put Skelton in there, at least by the beginning of the second half. It was obvious the offense was going nowhere. I mean, the Cardinals finished with less than 100 total yards of offense by their “regular” offense (they had 137 total yards, but 40 came on a fake punt). I didn’t think that was possible. 5 first downs? I don’t remember a team ever having fewer.

    It’s obvious that the team is in talent evaluation mode in playing Lindley. I mean, I don’t think Whiz can actually say, with his team still mathematically in the race for a playoff spot, “I know Skelton is probably a better choice in terms of chances to win, but I’m playing Lindley.” You’ll never see an NFL coach make a statement like that. But I think it’s pretty clear that’s what he’s doing. Does that mean, if Kolb can’t return any time soon, that no matter how bad it goes, Lindley never gets pulled? I have no idea. But like I said, I’m not and have never defended playing Lindley over Skelton if this team wants to win games right now. I defended Lindley against people saying he was absolutely awful vs. STL by pointing out he was actually pretty good for a half, moving our offense for 3 decent drives. Then he threw some terrible INT’s, something we’ve also seen Skelton do… whether that’s because they simply suck or something that can be overcome with experience is the question. I’m not going to try to defend Lindley’s performance in the NYJ game, because there’s nothing to defend, nor am I going to defend Whiz’s choice to leave him in there, because I disagree with it — again, assuming the objective is to win the football game.

  143. By Dennis on Dec 3, 2012 | Reply

    After the Derek Anderson/Max Hall debacle you would think Whiz would have learned a lesson and put aside his stubborn ways; but he hasn’t. Lindley was just the current example. Now if we let him go does anyone really think he will get another HEAD COACHING Job? I can’t think of a previous head coach that the Cards fired since they have been here that went on and got another Head Coaching job. That should tell you something.

  144. By Gary on Dec 3, 2012 | Reply

    Michael Bidwill really needs to step in if Whiz tries to start Lindley again. No fan should have to go through what we saw against the jets for an offense. Skelton should start period over Lindley.

  145. By jocards on Dec 3, 2012 | Reply

    I was just curious; for all the fans that saw yesterday’s game…..Was that the worst QB performance you have ever seen or have there been worse? If so what were they?

  146. By Dennis on Dec 3, 2012 | Reply

    Rashad Johnson had one of the Teams longest runs yesterday. He was a walk on Running back at Alabama before moving to safety. He looks like he has good speed and decent size. Maybe we should be looking at him to play some downs at RB. What ever happened to Alphonso Smith ? He was activated a few games back; but never played. Another guy with decent size and good speed. I would’ve tried everthing possible to improve this running game given the quality of QB’s we have on this team.

  147. By sarah on Dec 3, 2012 | Reply

    Whiz Press Conference :

    This is what he WILL say at today’ press conference .

    Well we are trying and no one likes a loss, it was close and we just couldn’t squeeze it out in the end. I thought the defense played superb but the offense needs work. Lindley made some good throws and some bad but we had line issues and receivers ran the wrong routes at times. I am sticking with Lindley as he gives us our best chance to win (this has become a comical line) for Seattle. He does great stuff in practice, we thought about switching him yesterday ( but that would be incredibly embarrassing if Skelton won ). We just have to keep working hard and a win will come, Seattle poses big challenges but we are making improvements. Thanks

  148. By Long time fan on Dec 3, 2012 | Reply

    I have been a long time fan and season ticket holder. I have seen many bad Cardinal years and this one is right up there with the worst ones. To me, I can’t believe the coaching is unwilling to make changes to at least give this team a chance to win from the quarterbackl position. We already know that this is a weak spot, but the lack of changes when we look like we may at least competitive ,I think shows disrespect towards the defense, who by the way has looked awsome.We obviosly will have a change by next season because skelton and lindley are not viable backps, but why throw away the rest of the season. try to get some wins for the defense and show them you appreciate thier effort. They deserve it!!

  149. By Zach on Dec 3, 2012 | Reply

    Did anyone else notice the first play of the game was a draw from shotgun? Against the 30th ranked run D of the Jets, we start our running game with a draw… why not put 2 TE or Sherman in and pound the ball first series to help your Rookie QB.

    A Draw is meant to be a misleading play after you establish the passing game – not the first play of the game! Grimm and Whiz are on hotseats, but we have the worst offensive play calling the NFL hands down!

    I will say the fake punt was the only offensive highlight and was perfecto! But, 1 play does not make up for a terrible called game… New OC needed

  150. By Mark on Dec 3, 2012 | Reply

    Based on profootballfocus both Massie and Potter had positive games this week. In fact Massie had a perfect game not giving up a sack or any pressures for that matter. Potter also did very well and gave up no sacks and just one QB hit.

  151. By roland on Dec 3, 2012 | Reply

    what the heck why did the rookie stay in , makes no sense at all.I am a die hard cards fan and 15 yr tix holder and this really sucks.

  152. By Chris Lewis on Dec 3, 2012 | Reply

    reply to Big Red

    You say Kolb likes to milk the cow, but at least we won games when he was playing. It’s not his fault our O-Line sucks. He was getting killed out there, he’s the best option we have right now as Skelton is a joke and Lindley’s not ready.

  153. By Nick on Dec 3, 2012 | Reply

    It’s amazing to see the parallels between us and the Eagles this year- major difference being they are clearly not afraid of doing something about their problems. Every QB decision whiz has made (except those involving a HOF player) has made absolutely no sense. At some point isn’t it just baffling to realize we actually started guys like Anderson, Hall and Lindley by choice ?? Your going to let Lindley play like that, give him time to grow but show no patience with our heisman winning first round pick? Make a huge trade for Kolb and oh my gosh he does exactly what he did in Philly – get hurt. I genuinely hope yesterday was intentional- tanking the season is really all there is left to hope for.

  154. By john the draft guy on Dec 3, 2012 | Reply


    Brian Dawkins went to Denver, so did John Lynch (weird) but like the Emmitts and Rice’s , if you want to continue playing, you end up moving on. One of the sad parts of sports.

    I thought Rhodes played well when he went to SS. I always find it interesting when the team wants to find out how good back ups like Johnson and Sanders are. There usually is a reason.

  155. By Mike D on Dec 3, 2012 | Reply

    I don’t think we know yet what we have in Skelton, either. I would assume that being a 5th round pick (especially from Fordham), Skelton was brought on this team to be mentored behind a veteran quarterback, then to either be a back up or grow into our starting quarterback Unfortunately circumstances threw him out on the field as a starting qb with no mentoring. He has been judged as someone who is a 3rd year player, but he has not played in the NFL for 3 seasons. When he stepped in for Kolb last season, he did a decent job. Many say that it was the defense who won those games for him, but as we know, it takes more than just the defense to win a game. “You always do what you think gives you the best chance,” Whisenhunt said. “That’s what we did.” Wow, that had to devastate Skelton, not too mention how insulting Whiz has been to the fans in his statements.

  156. By MIKE HADZINSKI C.M. PUNK on Dec 3, 2012 | Reply

    So you are a Yes man like graves then ? you’r job is good for another 10 years then.

  157. By MIKE HADZINSKI C.M. PUNK on Dec 3, 2012 | Reply

    Darren the only thing i have a problem with is when were on a 8 gm skid instead of writing a blog on how to get better you come up with GETTING FITZ MORE CATCHES WTH IS THAT?I mean i hope you can see were some of us fans get annoyed..

  158. By Darren Urban on Dec 3, 2012 | Reply

    Mike Hadzinski —

    RE: Annoyed

    Yeah, getting the team’s best player the ball more often couldn’t possibly help the team.

    I should’ve realized that.

  159. By Bryan on Dec 3, 2012 | Reply

    Thanks for the response Darren – was a good one imo.

    I think the biggest issue with the Cardinals is that historical they have been a losing organization that lacked accountability. When a coach would come along and suddenly have some success, that coach and the organization in general would get way to much slack.

    In my mind this sums up the Graves/Whiz era. Whisenhunt has consistently shown that he has issues managing, developing, and spotting talent at the QB position. Warner was simply a fluke who’s emergence was in large part forced upon Whisenhunt.

    Since then Ken has chosen Derek Anderson, an undrafted FA (M. Hall), a 5th round pick from Fordham (J. Skelton), and now a 6th round pick in Ryan Lindley to be his starting QB. This strikes me that KEn thinks he can turn anyone into a winning starting QB.

    If Ken didn’t have complete faith in Kolb during this off-season he should have brought in a solid skilled veteran (there were plenty available).

    This is just the QB position. Add in the offensive line, the play calling, the WRs, the TEs, the RB positions and coaching. All in all we have the worst offensive unit and coaching in the national football league.

    If Bidwell does not make a change and keeps Whisenhunt and Graves – I think its safe to say that Cardinals fans should not be hopeful about the organization for the future.

    Andy Reid is about to get fired despite having countless winning seasons and playoff appearances. No reason that Whiz should not face the same fate having accomplished far far less.

  160. By Kevin S on Dec 3, 2012 | Reply

    Nick —

    Not really sure I understand your point about comparing us to Philly this year, in saying that “they aren’t afraid to do something about their problems” (which implies our staff WAS afraid to do something). The Eagles made a drastic change, but it was at first motivated by Vick’s concussion. Now, with Foles performing at least decently, they can leave him in there to gain experience (I see they just announced he’s starting the rest of the year); they have nothing left to play for in 2012, and Vick’s status is uncertain anyway, so why not at this point just let Foles play out the year. But Andy Reid DIDN’T do anything about Vick’s crappy performance until he HAD to because of Vick’s concussion. I don’t see how the Eagles get credit in your mind for being proactive with their QB decisions this year when in fact their hand was forced.

    Our first two QB changes were, like the Eagles, in response to injuries — first, Kolb replacing Skelton week 1, and then Skelton back in for Kolb later in the season after Kolb seemingly had wrested the job away. Then with Skelton struggling to a degree and the team losing, they tried Lindley. Now obviously that move in retrospect is turning out poorly, but how can someone say the Cards were “afraid to do something about their problems” but the Eagles weren’t? The Cards TRIED to do something. In fact, many have argued, correctly in my view, that they tried to do something at a very inopportune time, a quarter into a game we were leading. If fans want to argue with the decisions that have been made, I completely understand, but if anything playing Lindley at the time he did was one of those moves that shows Whiz wasn’t afraid to take a chance. Those kinds of moves are the ones where people call you a genius if it works and an idiot if it doesn’t, and Whiz certainly risked being called an idiot.

  161. By wonderingwhy on Dec 3, 2012 | Reply

    Is the season over yet? I feel terrible for the defense that has busted their ass to make plays to have our offense squander it away with 3 and outs. Complete disaster. I wish I could look forward to next season but that’s only if the Bidwells decide to dish out some cash and stop shopping for bargains.

  162. By KKfan on Dec 3, 2012 | Reply

    It’s definitely tough being a fan when your team is losing game after game.
    As I’ve mentioned here several times I feel you misery, anger, frustrations…the whole ball of wax. Cause as you all know by watching sports networks that we are in the same sinking ship in Philly with my Eagles.
    Injuries to key players have played a definite role in this season for both our teams. But so has personnel, both player and coaching staff.

    Andy is at least trying to weed out the chaff from the wheat. Should have done it sooner .But better late than never as the saying goes.

    Firing of Castillo ( though recent reports now being revealed upon the firing today of Washburn) suggests that Juan was not the problem. That Washburn was the one in control of the defense. Even though Juan was the official DC..

    Due in part to Vick still not passing the impact test from his concussion, and due in part to the way Foles has performed (especially in last nights game ) Reid has made the switch to Foles for the rest of the season as the starter. I nor many of us saw that comming. Especially since Andy kept reiterating that oncne Vick was cleared to play that he was still the starter. But it is a refrain we should have remmebered from the past. He said the same thing about Kolb when he had his concussion. Than switched to Vick.

    Its’ really too early in his young career ,to determine what kind of a QB he will be
    in the near future. But he has shown some very good progress since his emergency start against the Cowboys (when Vick went down). He may or may not turn out to be someone we can build around for next seasons.But he looks promising.

    However I’m not going to get overly excited about Foles, as I recall Kolb had some very nice games too, when he went in for McNabb and than again for Vick.

    I’ve read some posts on the Cards mb, that fans are wanting them to use their first pick in this up comming draft on a QB. From the reports I’ve seen and read none of them are really franchise material. This comming from many scouts.

    Reids job is very much on the line. But if Foles and the young guys that he has decided to play out the season with, play well, than its a good chance he might be able to convince Mr Lurie to let him come back for his final year on his current contract.

    Sometimes the greatest victory is in losing. Reid has been able to see what a real running threat can be for helping set up the pass. And in assisting the QB’s behind a shoddy O line. Bryce Brown is one very talented RB…he just needs to learn to secure the football. But I’m confident that will happen. I remember Tiki Barber having the same issues early in his career. So did AP. They over came it . I’m hopeful that Bryce will too.

    Maybe Whis needs to make some difficult and personnel decisions too.Atleast it would indicate that he wants the team to improve. But you got to give them reason for hope of a better tomarrow.

  163. By jocards on Dec 3, 2012 | Reply

    @ KKfan –

    I understand what you’re saying and though you can relate to what the Cardinals are going through this season you really can’t appreciate the sort of futility the Cardinals organization has always operated under. My point is that the Eagles will undoubtedly move forward in the near future and again be a competitive organization. The Cardinals have always been a doormat for the NFL…I mean we are talking about consistent failure on a staggering scale here…..70 years with only a couple of respites from losing (most notably 2008). All of this under the ownership of the Bidwill family…..It is quite difficult for any Cardinals fan that has any grasp about the history of this organization to be very optimistic as long as the Bidwills are a part of the equation.

  164. By BIG RED on Dec 3, 2012 | Reply

    respond to Chris Lewis– That’s exactly what I’m talking about. Playing four games per year and paying him the money that his making. Don’t tell me your happy with that. If you remember, the defense are the once that won those four games. Kolb was there like Skelton was there the year before, thats what everybody was saying about Skelton. Kolb has been in the NFL longer than Skelton, now tell me how many games has Kolb played in those years. And the truth will come out, he’s a professional in milking the organizations (Phillie and Cards). We need a QB that can stand the pounding of a complete year. I know injuries are part of the game but comon’ man every year the same shit. Wake up Bidwells, you really like giving money away free.

  165. By MIKE HADZINSKI C.M. PUNK on Dec 3, 2012 | Reply


    I’ll go this route with you maybe if Fitz just wasn’t a deep threat it would be different he never has had the boldin toughness say working the drag route about 7 times a game or go for 3 bubble screens a game ? Fitz is the type imo who is scared to be the muscle say what you want butt Q’s rookie game still amazes me how a guy can take like 7 drag routes for 200 yards to me that’s what being a wr is about and #81 did it with a guy named jeff blake.We all know he needs the ball but come up with something different…. maybe it’s b/c the media babbies him so much i’m starting to get annoyed with him…plus the fact he ignored real fans at the hall of fame game instead he gave auto’s to players family and friends… should be a gamer no matter what the Qb is it’s almost like he need’s a HOF QB TO BE SOMEBODY SPECIAL

  166. By Darren Urban on Dec 3, 2012 | Reply

    Mike Had –

    RE: Fitz

    You do realize Q’s rookie game was almost a decade ago, right? There isn’t one NFL person in the entire league that would want Boldin over Fitz, right?

    As for the QB Fitz needs, he had 1,400 yards last year without a HOF QB.

  167. By Credit Card on Dec 3, 2012 | Reply

    Best chance of winning is having Lindley hold a clip board.

    I will repeat myself, since Whiz-&-punt acts like Charlie Brown, he may as well wear a yellow sweater with a black squiggley stripe around his belly section.

  168. By George on Dec 3, 2012 | Reply

    Who is the QB scout for the cards Lindleys Mom. This kid can’t play.

  169. By MIKE HADZINSKI C.M. PUNK on Dec 4, 2012 | Reply

    I would rather have Q’s Toughness to go across the middle,Why does fitz not like working the middle ? or why doesn’t he catch like 4 bubble screens a gm just to get the ball in his hands,Q’s energy was off the charts i wanna see that energy from fitz..

    I would rather have fitz right now.But still to this day i’v never seen a Wr play Rb catch a flare and take it what 60yards running over people Q vs49ers.@candlestick

    I don’t like his contract 100mill or when have other areas to worry about like the 0-line and espn reports cards are drafting floyd b/c it helps take pressure of fitz wtf…Decastro was best player on the board and the team we try to blueprint took him right up huh ? they babby him too much and besides he is already what 28yrs he’s only getting older.The future here is our D is it not? hell i have more fun watching D-wash smash ppl then i do watching fitz running half speed routes spoiled from the super bowl yrs maybe.But when our d is winning games and the o is worse then the plummer yrs it makes you wonder about trading him and his contract for picks…

    Remember me telling you a story about blackstock and 9-0 and you told me my sources might be bad well after the stuff with rhodes it looks like my sources were dead on about him as a person….

    Darren i know you will never say some of the stuff you would like to b/c you don’t want to pull a Toni Grossi but i respect your Job b/c i’m a yes man @ my work too it’s all about doing our job to put food on the table for our family…. cm punk

  170. By MIKE HADZINSKI C.M. PUNK on Dec 4, 2012 | Reply

    Just know though if i ever see something that looks like it’s being sugar coated i’ll be the first one to call you style

  171. By Eazy E on Dec 14, 2012 | Reply

    What a Rihanna looking game(sarcasm for sure). Again another defensive gem of a game and our offense looks like it’s playing in mud. Thanks Whiz and the FO the cardinals fans really appreciate this so very much. Kerry had an awesome game along with Patrick and the whole defense I could name every starter and player on Defense but the QB position is just a mess.

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