Lions aftermath

Posted by Darren Urban on December 16, 2012 – 8:30 pm

Adrian Wilson was one of the players from the very first Cardinals’ draft class I covered from draft day on (I began chronicling the Cards right before training camp the year before). I’ve known him his whole NFL career. It made me smile Sunday when, as he began to cry during his press conference – not waterworks, mind you, but clearly tearing up – and said “Believe it or not, I’m a very emotional person.”

Maybe those who see him from afar only on the field might think that, might think he’s one of those stereotypical players who crush opponents for a living without feeling. Anyone who has been around him at all knows he’s the ultimate emotional guy. It’s always on his sleeve. Sometimes he may not want to talk about whatever publicly (and even then, the message is sent) but you never once are doubting what kind of mood he is in.

Those tears Sunday represented relief and sadness at once. His lost playing time has been hard on him, and that caught up to him after notching his sack Sunday that made him the sixth member of the 25-25 club (Wilson has 27 interceptions and 25½ sacks). His NFL mortality crawls closer, and he knows what that means. But it was also about the weight lifted off the shoulders of a team burdened by a nine-game losing streak. The game in Seattle was a bomb dropped on a team and a defense that was already reeling. The Cards recovered nicely Sunday.

And it wasn’t a surprise to see A-Dub a little overwhelmed because of it.

— Calais Campbell was a monster against the Lions, and believe it or not, he said he’s still not 100 percent. It just shows how much he means to this defense when he is playing well, and how well he fits into this scheme. After everything that has happened the last couple of weeks, it was noticeable that, when asked about Campbell’s dominance, coach Ken Whisenhunt also said Darnell Dockett played well too.

— Patrick Peterson got his shot at Calvin Johnson and did very well. Johnson got his numbers but Peterson’s one interception was a bigger play than anything Johnson did and of course, Peterson got the win.

— Yes, the Cardinals “hurt” their draft status with a win. But please, spare me the “they can’t even lose right” comments. They are in this to win games. It’s one of the reasons I have no desire to get into draft talk until the season is over. Let’s see where everything settles, and then we can discuss what players might be available, etc.

— It’s not why the Pick-6s happened, but noteworthy that both players who returned interceptions for touchdowns Sunday – cornerback Greg Toler and safety Rashad Johnson (below) – are going to be unrestricted free agents after the season. The Cardinals have to make a decision on whether they want to bring either back.

— Easily the hardest I’ve seen Beanie Wells run this season, and that’s not a knock on effort but a note on health. He had a couple runs where he just moved the pile. His per-carry average wasn’t great (3.9) but he scored three touchdowns and again, gained yards in short-yardage situations.

— Punter Dave Zastudil, who has been a workhorse because of the offensive struggles this season, has been fantastic this year. He set a team record Sunday with six punts downed inside the 20-yard line.

— Ryan Lindley really didn’t play that much different than he had previous. He had 104 yards passing, and after an early bad interception, he didn’t turn the ball over. The reshuffled offensive line kept him upright (one sack). He didn’t do anything to make you think he’s the QB of the future, but he didn’t do anything to make you think he won’t start against the Bears next week.

— Fitz did get four catches after just six in the previous four games. It was just for 22 yards, but baby steps. Besides, Fitz was happy. “Christmas came early here in the desert,” Fitz said. “Santa made a delivery at University of Phoenix Stadium and we are all happy with the gift we received. It’s incomprehensible what we’ve been going through the last couple of weeks. Nine weeks in a row to not come out with a win, it feels good to be back home and get a win.”


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Posted in Blog | 75 Comments »

75 Responses to “Lions aftermath”

  1. By rufus on Dec 16, 2012 | Reply

    Happy with the win, but this offense is still anemic. We need a QB in the worst way. So sad to see Fitz’s talents being wasted.

  2. By Jordan on Dec 16, 2012 | Reply

    So happy for every fan, player and coach. Man we needed this.

  3. By kauaicardsfan on Dec 16, 2012 | Reply

    It was a nice Birthday present for me!!! Mahalo GO CARDS!

  4. By card62 on Dec 16, 2012 | Reply

    Very glad the home fans were able to see a win. Thank you defense and special teams. 38 points and under 200 yards of offense from scrimage. Inconcievable!

    Darren I agree with you that Beanie finally ran hard, and I was a fan of his, but we have never been able to count on him for a season so I am okay if he is not back next year.

    Also agree with you that C. Campbell is a beast and glad he is going nowhere.

    To John the draft guy who can you recommend for QB for us next year?

    Unfortunately I knew this season was over before it started just like the last two and it makes me angry that we keep wasting years of our star players who will not be playing too much longer. The reasons we have been bad the last 3 years have been the same reasons, offensive coordinator, offensive line, and quarterback. Like several of you I have been asking that these areas be addressed for several years, but the only shot we took was to trade for Kevin Kolb. I am glad we tried with him and hope he is back next year to compete for our starting QB job, but this is not close to enough.

    Darren and fans do you think we lose Ray Horton after this year to another job? I hope not.

    I have wanted Rod Graves fired for a couple of years? Do you think I get my wish this year?

    If Norv Turner gets fired from San Diego, which is probable, I hope we go after him a lot harder than we went after Peyton Manning. Norv is not a great head coach but I think he is a great coordinator and he develops quarterbacks very well. I tell you our offense the last 3 years is just horrible and our QB play dreadful. Do you guys/gals think I get my wish?

    I will be okay if we draft nothing but QBs and OL next year and of course hire a new OL coach.

    San Fran and Seattle really coming together and will be tough for years to come, and the Rams under Jeff Fischer will be better next year.

    Darren I have never called for Ken W. head, but I must admit he has made me scratch my head over and over again with some of his moves and lack of moves.
    To be honest I have not figured him out yet. You are a lot closer to the situation and I know you are limited in what you can say so my only question to you is a yes or no question. Do you have him figured out to know if he is a good head coach or not? I know several of you fans want him fired yesterday and you could all be right, but I have followed our beloved Cardinals for 42 years and he is the only head coach to get me to a Superbowl and get me playoff wins in two straight seasons in 42 years and I still remember when we fired Don C. and how well he did in San Diego and how poorly our Cardinals did after we fired him.

    Thank you Darren and all Cardinal Fans on staying together during another difficult and lost season.

    Go Cards

  5. By Ottis Anderson Fan on Dec 16, 2012 | Reply

    I can’t see how the Cards can let Rashad Johnson go after groomimg him to get to this point, only to release him and start all over again at the position in the draft.

    Another game to show that Horton deserves a shot to be HC of this team in 2013. The offense didn’t loose the game which is the best they can hope to do (and have the defense and special teams win the game).

  6. By Procen on Dec 16, 2012 | Reply

    I don’t think there is not need to change anything on the defense. The Cards defense in the top 10, but the offense protected Lindley a lot better today after they moved some players. The only thing we need is a good QB like Kurt and we can be in the playoff/super bowl again, otherwise the defense will play offense just to win.

  7. By Patrick Eagan on Dec 16, 2012 | Reply

    watching my team win feels so great. Go Cardinals!

  8. By georgiebird on Dec 16, 2012 | Reply

    Congratulations to the Cardinals defense, they played an inspired game today- Peterson, Campbell and Dockett were most impressive.
    Agree with you 100% about winning football games, but during the group of games against Atlanta, Jets and StL, Whiz did not do enough to win by giving his QBs opportunities to succeed.
    This is a tough game to evaluate- on the positive side, the Cards gave the Lions their most lopsided loss of the season. On the negative, the Lions are still a dysfunctional team like the Cards.
    The reality is that the NFC West is becoming a very tough division. Playing outside the division seems to give the Cardinals a better chance to win. An impressive win against a team like the Lions may not be enough to change the fortunes of the Cardinals within the division- but it may get Whiz another year.

  9. By Kevin S on Dec 16, 2012 | Reply

    And there you have it… we are not the worst team in football, as some downer fans have posted throughout this losing streak, or even the worst team in the conference (that title, amazingly, goes to the Eagles, a trendy preseason Super Bowl pick). We are, however, the worst offense in football, at least in these past half-dozen games or so. Even when we score 38 points, 2 of the TD’s are scored by the D and 2 others the offense has to go 5 yards or less (fumble recovery after punt, and PP INT to the 3 yard line). And we’re actually pretty decent at home… 4-3 and a Feely kick off the upright away from 5-2. Plus/minus is only -78 points which means if you take out the 58-0 Seattle shellacking we are only -20 in the other 13 games. Not good by any means, but considering we never scored 20 points in the losing streak and had 4 games of 6 or fewer points, it’s pretty amazing we aren’t at -150 or so. Good job D.

  10. By bluepitt on Dec 16, 2012 | Reply

    Wells is a runner that starts getting hot after several carries, this is clear! look what happened today he got stuck on a couple runs but Whiz didnt hit the panic button for once and Wells got hot.Just like he has in the past!

  11. By Jon on Dec 17, 2012 | Reply

    This was my first regular season game that I actually got to go to. Early Christmas present from a friend. Row 1 at the 50 yard line! This was DEFINITELY the game I wanted to attend in person! And my voice is gone from trying to give the Lions false starts. lol. Go Cards!

  12. By Mr Robles on Dec 17, 2012 | Reply

    Awesome we needed this Big time loved it

  13. By Madriffs on Dec 17, 2012 | Reply

    I see a light in Lindley. Nobody is giving this kid any kind of confidence dogging him out. You realize he is a rookie right? Beanie should be used as a change up or in short yardage situations. He is a very hard runner but not very finesse. In other words, a #2 RB. Grats on the 3 TD’s Beanie! Also grats to the BEAST Defense! Go Cards!

  14. By Red Dead Not Redemption on Dec 17, 2012 | Reply

    Always feels great to get a win.
    The offense, was again bad, especially Lindley – who is the worst QB in football.
    Seen some bad football in my time, this offense is among the worst I have witnessed.
    Good news is a QB and some offensive line work changes that.
    The defense stepped up and played great, shows how much pride they have as a group; everyone should give Horton a ton of credit.
    I hope this win doesn’t allow this coaching staff besides Horton (who should be head coach) to keep their jobs, along with Graves.
    Carson Palmer, Alex Smith and Mike Vick, will all be free agents next year – so there is no real reason to draft a QB.
    Fix the offense line in the draft, and through free agency.
    Watched the tape on Palmer. Believe it or not? He reminds me a lot of Kurt Warner when people said he was done with the Giants and he was benched for Eli.
    We picked him up, and it worked out very well. Same thing could happen there.
    That being said, Vick had a bad year, but the offensive line was horrible-even worse the ours.
    The Eagles had so many problems, especially on defense, he isn’t to blame for the issues there.
    He would be my pick, and if that didn’t work out Palmer.
    I see Smith as a almost very good, “what the Vikings want Christian Ponder to be but never will” game manager.
    I don’t think it would be the best for the Cardinals, but I feel we can win with any of the three.
    At worst, which would be getting Smith, we’d know the 49ers inside and out as a team.

  15. By Brad on Dec 17, 2012 | Reply

    A win for the Defense and Ray Horton, another loss for Ken Whisenhunt and his offensive assistants, Whiz will be gone there is no turning back now (unless Lindley starts throwing TD’s which is unlikely). So the question is does the Bidwells go after Horton as HC or do they chase Turner to turn around their offense? Tough question, i hope they go with Horton as we need him, but i have a bad feeling they will go with Turner which will leave Horton free for the picking for teams searching for a HC. In any case we will have a different offensive coordinator so there is cause to celebrate. Go cards.

    Re: Card 62, if you get your wish with Turner then it will mean Horton is the new head coach of another franchise, Horton has turned a terrible defense into a game-changing defense, he will be head-hunted, Cards need to act and slide him up the chain to HC, then look for another OC, QB, OL.

  16. By Hammy on Dec 17, 2012 | Reply

    So happy to get a win! Im not even gonna criticize this team, bottom line in we won the game! Proud for All the fans and players for dominating this game. Great team win! Whiz and Co still must go tho.

  17. By Rich on Dec 17, 2012 | Reply

    Nice summary. Glad you mentioned Zastudil (he’s been incredible this year). I was at the game. Snyder looked very comfortable at center. He “mauled” in there. The stadium announcer made a mistake and gave a spectacular specials teams tackle to Bethel when it was Adams. I worry about losing Toler (the only true cover corner we have beside PP). But my real concern on the defense is at safety (RJ and Sanders are UFR’s, Rhodes has a big voidable number, Adub aging). My question – being around the team and staff, what do you think the chances are that Rhodes and RJ are back?

  18. By Darren Urban on Dec 17, 2012 | Reply

    Rich —

    RE: Rashad/Rhodes

    Rhodes has played at a high enough level that I’d think he would be worth bringing back at a high salary. Don’t know on Rashad. I’d think he will be allowed to test the market, but I could definitely see him eventually coming back.

  19. By Campbells on Dec 17, 2012 | Reply

    Glad for the players. The defense/special teams obviously stole this game. Same old offense.
    Couldn’t motivate myself to go. Dedicating 7-hours of my time to watch a 4-9 team play wasn’t appealing. Winning at this stage of “This season” doesn’t do much for this fan. Hope this win doesn’t earn Whiz another year at the helm. If he returns next year, someone else will have to buy my season tickets.
    Can’t wait for the decision regarding the fate of the coaching staff. I want a reason to be excited about next year.

  20. By Dean Kennedy on Dec 17, 2012 | Reply

    I sure hope yesterday’s meaningless win doesn’t distract Mikey from actually demonstrating that he’s serious about winning instead of simply stating that he’s serious about winning. Get that checkbook ready, fire up the pen and start writing checks to Graves, Whis and Grimm. If the new GM doesn’t want to retain anyone on the staff, write some more checks.

    Oh and I doubt there’s a more overrated QB in the league right now than Stafford. He looked like Skelton.

  21. By philly cards 1994- on Dec 17, 2012 | Reply

    It takes two under achievers to replace adub. that’s the state of the team I guess.

    Bruce arians can come in and work with graves. Whiz was placed over graves because of the sb.

    Bad move

  22. By Jason Zumwalt on Dec 17, 2012 | Reply

    I can’t imagine anyone being more excited about this years draft class than that win. It felt damn good watching the Bird Gang whoop on the Lions. Made me feel confident that with a field management type of QB we can win any game. Of course, I’d take a Tom Brady clone any day as well.

  23. By MIKE G on Dec 17, 2012 | Reply

    Hey Darren, Hope you are good! Great win by the Card’s yesterday. Certainly the players played very hard and that is a great sign for Whiz and the staff. The players did not quit. Defense played hard and we did commit to the run yesterday. We had a lot of rushing attempts which protected Lindley and helped the defense. This is how I think the Cards have to win right now–Whiz had good balance yesterday and there were not many turnovers by the offense. He kept the pressure off of Lindley with a good game plan and Beanie ran hard. Also Zastudil had a great game pinning the Lions in their own end. Glad the guys stopped the losing streak. Darren–who gets game ball??? Zastudil?? Peterson??? Many choices!!!

  24. By David on Dec 17, 2012 | Reply

    But Darren, they can’t even lose right…

  25. By D on Dec 17, 2012 | Reply

    Congrats to the AZ Defense, #1 in the NFC for sacks and interceptions. Rashod Johnson and G. Toler should be offered a deal before the end of the season.

  26. By Austin on Dec 17, 2012 | Reply


    I imagine Wilson has a goal to get to the 30-30 club. How many players belong to that? And how many of them are defensive backs?

  27. By Darren Urban on Dec 17, 2012 | Reply

    Austin —

    RE: 30/30

    There are only two players at 30/30. Safety Rodney Harrison and linebacker Ray Lewis.

  28. By clssylssy on Dec 17, 2012 | Reply

    GREAT WIN! So proud of my team and coaches…they are who I knew they were! Good article Darren, hope we can enjoy the moment before the armchair critics begin their “analysis”…Georgiebird was struggling to stay inside the lines! We have great talent on this team and I would hate to lose either Johnson or Toler. So happy for Adrian Wilson who has been a big part of the heart and sole of this team and great to see that million dollar Fitzgerald smile once again! GOOD JOB MEN!

  29. By jocards on Dec 17, 2012 | Reply

    Well I know folks will complain that our position in the draft got weaker but I am never one to disparage a win….After more than two months of losing it was so great to watch a win again! I mean this is the NFL and winning is what it’s all about every Sunday. That was an impressive bounce back from the defense and the team in general after being absolutely waxed in Seattle. Yesterday I didn’t see any of the quit that so many folks had talked about after the Seahawks game. This organization is still a mess in a lot of areas but for one day yesterday they put it together and provided some enjoyment for the fans….For the first time in months my Sunday wasn’t a total loss.

  30. By Cards Season Ticket Holder on Dec 17, 2012 | Reply

    Keep it simple Cards Fans,
    The defense is real good. Resign those players to keep the defense intact for years. They will only get better.
    Do what it takes to keep Ray Horton here in Az, because that means we will have a GREAT DEFENSE to compete against high powered offenses. Like the Ravens for example.
    Draft a 1st or 2nd round Quarterback and heavily on the Offensive line to keep our QB and RBs healthy for years to come. Plus it gives our QB time to throw to our receivers and tightends.
    fill needs and depth with late round picks.
    Reminder; Ken Wiz drafted all those defensive players to.
    Signed season ticket holder. GO RED BIRDS

  31. By Campbells on Dec 17, 2012 | Reply

    Congrats Fitz, on 22 yards receiving.

  32. By Cert 33 on Dec 17, 2012 | Reply

    Another solid effort by the Cardinal defense. Feels good to end the losing streak. We never were the worst team in the NFL, only the worst offense (and we still are). I wonder who Ray Horton would pick to be his OC…

  33. By Chuck 1 on Dec 17, 2012 | Reply

    The Cards had a great opportunity to lose out and grab a high draft pick and what did they do? Won the XXXX game. LOL
    Now, can they build a three game winning streak that will lead to a undefeated regular season and a Super Bowl win in 2013? LMAO

  34. By donttakelosses on Dec 17, 2012 | Reply

    So, was last week “capitulation” where players quit on Coach, or an aberration?

    Lindley looked much better… not huge day but 67% completion.. which QB on roster hasn’t sniffed that in longtemp?

    Is Snyder a Center? maybe…or maybe universal backup when Levi returns a la Jeremy Bridges?

    Wells ran well, hard, turned corner, and how about the edge set by Sherman and Colledge? Wow was that cool on 31yd td. IF Wells can get healed this off season… if, if, if …

  35. By hotValleySun on Dec 17, 2012 | Reply

    Nice to get a win after a long time.

    Despite the coaching situation or who ever the next coach may be, cards prospects for the short term and long term are very bleak in NFC West.

    49ers- With Harbaugh coaching they are a force and likely win the division and playoff spot every year

    Seahawks- Russel Wilson, Marshawyn Lynch and their defense will ensure they are knocking on 49ers door for divison title and playoff spot every year

    Rams-They will be good since Jeff Fisher ensured Bradford found his lost confidence this year. With tons of draft picks stacked, they are going to load up on talent and under Fisher will be a playoff team now and then if not every year

    Cards-No prospects on offense. If Horton goes, defensive production will drop.
    So unless the defense can improve and we find a QB at least as good as Jake Plummer, find my team on the bottom of the NFC west every year

    Having said above, it is time to enjoy the win as wins are rare and far in between in the cards country…

  36. By hotValleySun on Dec 17, 2012 | Reply

    Watching TV, I noticed Michael Bidwill’s response to Ken Whizenhunt when cards gained 21-7 lead before half time. There were some high fives. The side show could mean one of two things.
    1. He was appreciating the coach to let players know they better don’t quit on coach.
    2. Coach is returning next year with a new GM.

    Either way, it was good to see that younger Bidwill cares about his team by being on the sideline before halftime.

  37. By Alan on Dec 17, 2012 | Reply

    Feeling a little optimistic about our offensive line next year. They have been playing better the last couple of games and they have injured starters returning next year and will probably draft someone in the 1st 3 rounds of next years draft. The young tackles are showing growth every game!!!

  38. By Peter in Canada on Dec 17, 2012 | Reply

    All true fans are happy for the win for the coaches and players. They are not playing for a draft pick they are playing to win. It was not totally satisfying because it was very much a one-dimensional victory. So I hope the powers, while relishing the win, do not forget the problems that still remain. You will never win very often, let alone championships with an offence that can not net 200 yards.

  39. By Mr Robles on Dec 17, 2012 | Reply

    Darren we know there is more highlights than we saw on the game than the highlight reel. Can the site show more or can you tell me where I can see more like the PP Int & A-dub Sack Johnson Int?

  40. By Darren Urban on Dec 17, 2012 | Reply

    Mr. Robles —

    RE: More highlights

  41. By Dynosoar on Dec 17, 2012 | Reply

    The best defense is a good offense!

  42. By john the draft guy on Dec 17, 2012 | Reply

    It was nice to leave the stadium with a win and watch the many, many Lion fans hang there heads.

    First impression? Horton would be a good fit in Detroit as Head Coach. I’m just saying…

    Campbell makes a huge difference. He sure reminds you of a young Richard Seymour. He can really dominate.

    I find this funny; Stafford throws to #18, beating Toler for a Td and brings the Lions to 7 pts down. Wait, a delay of game takes away the TD. 2 plays later, Toler goes 100 yards for a TD and fans are wanting him resigned. Interesting .

    Beanie runs for 31 yards for a late TD on a lion defense that was done after being down 3 scores and a couple minutes left. His other 16 carries totaled 36 yards, when the game mattered. He made a difference on short yardage, but to declare him back ? I need to see more. I especially was disappointed when he had a chance on a 9 yard run, where he could have lowered his shoulder and pick up a late and much needed 1st down. Instead he went out on sidelines. We had to punt which lead to the drive Toler ended.

    PP vs Megatron was a good battle. PP got the pick and took it inside the 5yd line. Megatron had 100+ yards and caught a ball on the 2 yrd line that lead to a Lion TD. I would say it was pretty even but I do have to say, Stafford went after Toler near the endzone instead of throwing it up for Megatron. Making Stafford question throwing it to Calvin is a win for Peterson.

    The Lions did a good job on picking up Horton’s “A” gap blitzes. We could have used some pressure from Acho and Groves. Looking at an OLB is becoming more and more of a priority. Detroits Cliff Avril is available as a FA next year and the Lion fans said they are going to let him go. If you believe he can convert to an OLB (from DE- 6’3″ and 260), that might be a top target in FA.

    Two last things;
    Funny many fans yelled for Riely Rieff as the cards top pick. I thought his arms are to short to play outside. The lions use him as a TE and he does not start. An OT is as allusive in the draft as a franchise QB. You have to go with what is usually true. Short QBs usually dont pan out and short-armed tackles usually end up guards. Exceptions? sure.

    Lindley is still very bad. But I sure hope he has a career day and beats the bears. Ending their playoff hopes would help make a bad year almost OK.

  43. By sarah on Dec 17, 2012 | Reply

    Great win for the D but let’s not forget it was Detroit and Stafford was simply horrible, especially that goal line interception. Either way it gave the D some much needed swagger and confidence. Where was the D in Seattle ?

    As Darren pointed out, it reminded him of the Denver 2010 game and I agree. Re. Lindley, he just does not do it for me and seems like he hangs at a skateboard park re. his interviews ( he needs media coaching). Great running by Beanie and the O line did a good job relative to say Minnesota, SF or STL ! The passing game is just not happening other than safe three yard passes, clearly Whiz kept the ball out of the air re. turnovers. The team defense played like the first 4 games as did special teams and no give ups on punt returns ( this was key). Chicago will be a different story for sure especially the offence as the D setup most of Beanie’s field position for TD runs.

    Here is a story on the Denver 2010 game, the 2010 season seems hauntingly similar.

  44. By sarah on Dec 17, 2012 | Reply

    :Here below is a pretty accurate take on yesterdays game.

  45. By Mr Robles on Dec 17, 2012 | Reply

    Thanks Darren appreciated that.

  46. By philly cards 1994- on Dec 17, 2012 | Reply


    Isn’t seth joyner. Part of. 30/30 also?

  47. By Darren Urban on Dec 17, 2012 | Reply

    Philly Cards —

    RE: Joyner

    Joyner had 52 sacks, 24 INT.

  48. By in fitz we trust on Dec 17, 2012 | Reply

    Patrick peterson has truly stepped his game up. I remember he had a hard time turning his head towards the ball while he blankets the reciever, only to get called for a pass interference penalty. 7 interceptions is nuts!! Its truly a possibility he could end up leading the league in picks, and lead the league in pro bowl votes as a cornerback this time!!

  49. By Kevin S on Dec 17, 2012 | Reply

    Looks like the Cardinals earned back a little respect, at least in the eyes of Vegas… the 4-9 Lions were 6 point favorites against us, notwithstanding their own losing streak and the game being on the road. Meanwhile the 8-6 Bears (with a point differential of +81, better than even the Packers) are only 5 to 5 1/2 point favorites next week.

  50. By Kevin S on Dec 17, 2012 | Reply

    donttakelosses —

    Yes, Lindley looked better, in the sense that he didn’t have a bunch of INT’s (like vs. STL) or a sub-33% completion % (like vs. NYJ), but even completing 2/3 of his passes he still only averaged 5 yards per attempt. That’s almost unheard of, (usually if a QB ends up around 5 in YPA it’s because they completed half or less of their passes), but it’s a function of limiting him for the most part to very short throws. When your QB completes 2/3 of his passes with only 1 INT, and still finishes the game with a QBR under 60, you know there’s a problem.

  51. By chris B on Dec 17, 2012 | Reply

    So let me get this right:

    When we were in the midst of a 9 game losing streak, you all were pissed off and desperately wanted people fired and thought that would help us win. Now they actually won a game, you’re pissed off??? Seriously? The blatant idiocy on display here is mind boggling.

    Players/ coaches aren’t going to throw games. This is their job. Would you intentionally suck at your job just to give your employer a better chance to replace you? Honestly…

    This team needs a QB. Massy has been solid the past 6-7 games at RT and he has earned that starting role. If he keeps it up, that’s 1 T we won’t need to draft. Potter is a good back up for now. The wild card is Levi; does he play like the Levi we know and love to hate? Or does he play lights out like he did the last 6-7 games of 2011? That’s the question. The OL has improved once Bataste was benched. Do we still need a RG or LT? Maybe. Do we need 2 T and a RG? Not anymore, I think.

    We need a QB. I think that is very clear. Kolb can be that QB if he stays healthy. Ideally, restructure Kolb and draft someone who CAN start if needed. If he sits behind Kolb and Kolb wins, then great. If Kolb struggles or gets hurt, he can go in and won’t look like a 5th-6th round rookie (ala Dalton, Kaep).

    Someone please let me know, in the last 3 years, the Cardinals could have drafted or signed via FA that would be a start for years to come at QB? Give me ONE name.

    Dalton was picked, so was Kaep, so don’t give me names they “could have traded up to get”. By that logic, they missed out on Luck or RGIII too. Any time before then we had a franchise-QB-in-waiting in Leinart (not a Whiz choice).
    Please don’t give me any of the “so-so is better than we have now” guys either. There are 64 starting and back-up QBs in the league, 60(ish) of them are better than Skelton and Lindley right now. I want one name that has proven to be a long term answer at that spot. And I define long term by saying starter caliber play for 4-5 years. So spare me Vince Young or McNabb.
    I’m thankful Whiz passed on Gabbert, Locker, Ponder in 2010 when we “needed a QB in the worst way”. The timing/need for this team at the QB has been the worst he past 3 years. No one has been there for them to grab.

  52. By SteveG on Dec 17, 2012 | Reply

    SO nice to get the win….

    BIG props to the O-line and Coach Grimm..May be one of the better coaching jobs I have seen…Took guys not ready for prime time through some VERY rough times and brought them to respectability…Easy to coach from ahead, harder to do it from behind and I suspect (health being a none issue) that we have the makings of a very decent O line already in uniform.

    We have the QB in Kolb (I saw a HUGE improvement before his injury despite being the qb when the line was at it’s worst, can’t wait to see what he could do with a few more seconds and some confidence in his line)…I did not expect Skelton to regress as he has and defy anyone to say they saw it coming….

    I see Whiz coming back with some changes (and I hope Grimm gets to finish the job too)…and, with some semblance of a healthy offense, I expect a better year and to compete in the now very tough NFC West!!

    Thanks for the effort boys….Was fun to watch and I hope you enjoy the week and go beat them Bears!!!

    GO CARDS!!!

  53. By john the draft guy on Dec 17, 2012 | Reply


    You make a good point about Grimm. I’ve been thinking the same thing the last few weeks.

    For 5 years, the cards drafted 2 lineman, Herman Johnson and Brandon Keith. The free agents were mostly castoffs and Levi Brown was a better RT than LT but was forced to be on the left due to lack of talent.

    This year, we gave him some rookies. He took a 4th round and 7th round Tackles and turned them into starters. Not to mention, our starting center for the last several years was an undrafted FA.

    Sure, it is easier to coach a team like the Browns, who spent a high one on Joe Thomas and a high second on Shawrtz along with a second on the guard. Add in a first on a RB and QB, and you better be able to get production out of this group or you will be gone.

    But Grimm has taken what he is given and actually has got them playing pretty well.

    Sure, we are not running the ball like we should. Lets give him a guard somewhere in rounds 1-3 and another year with the tackles maturing. I wonder what he could do with a little more talent.

    Tell you the truth, I think all the coaches are pretty good. Heck, they are NFL coaches.I just want to make sure Whiz is not in the decision making of the QB and have someone in place to be a strong GM. That is the problem in a nut shell. A coach with too much pull and a weak GM.

  54. By johnkhenson on Dec 17, 2012 | Reply

    Defense has been here all season (excluding Seattle game), and I am proud of this amazing defense. Anyone can play like that, but after a blowout were we lose by 58, that is a moral victory by the defense. Offensive line did pretty good allowing 1 sack the whole game (Pat McQuiston was a technician for his first start), and we are gonna need to evaluate if we should start Nate Potter and let go of Levi Brown large contract. Evaluation process needs to continue till the end of the season… Still in my opinion we need to draft a quarterback.

  55. By Kevin S on Dec 17, 2012 | Reply

    I am certainly not qualified to assess our O-line, but I’ve seen some people here attribute the improved pass protection of late to the fact that Skelton, and now Lindley, have both proven to be pretty inaccurate, so the opposing D is content to rush fewer guys and let them throw into tougher coverage (resulting in more than a fair share of our passes getting picked off). So, if that’s true, does that mean if Kolb were still the QB, our opponents would be bringing more pressure and our pass protection would still be exposed as poor — or are people convinced that the adjustments (putting Potter in, etc.) actually have resulted in real improvement? We certainly don’t seem to be running the ball any better…

  56. By hotValleySun on Dec 17, 2012 | Reply

    john the draft guy and Steve G,

    I understand your reasoning for optimism. A few games might not be a good sample to give a pass to Russ Grimm..

    Another factor that is not discussed is: Given cards pathetic QB situation after kolb’s injury, are the opposing defenses focusing not on heavy blitzing or getting to QB (since they are not accurate given time in pocket too) instead opting to stop the run and make the QB throw to covered receivers? If this is what opposing defenses are doing, then OL is going to doom us again when decent QB (whoever it may be) starts for Cards next next year.

  57. By clssylssy on Dec 17, 2012 | Reply

    Cousins is doing a pretty good job for Washington and sources with knowledge of the situation feel that the Skins would let him go if he were offered an opportunity as a starter…hmmm, sounds crazy to me that they would give up such a valuable asset but he’s clearly better than anyone mentioned previously. He would have experience as a proven leader and winner under his belt, and he seems to have excellent creds. Would be worth consideration. Kolb has not even played 50% of the games since being signed so I think we can say he’s not “the guy” and whether he would be content to be a backup is doubtful. I don’t think we can afford to go into another year experimenting with a QB competition. Competition is great but the roster needs to be set in place by the second or third preseason game. This is a good team who hopefully can build on the momentum of this game and enjoy another success next week against the Bears. The 9ers are beatable…the Rams proved that and while I would rather see them win the Division than the cheat’n Seachickens, ending the year with a win against the 9ers would be a great way to start a new year! IT’S POSSIBLE…GO CARDS!

  58. By Darren Urban on Dec 17, 2012 | Reply

    Clssy —

    RE: “Sources”/Cousins

    What sources are saying that? And please do not give me an anonymous person via Bleacher Report. I highly doubt the Redskins would do that unless they got a great deal. He’s a young, talented backup for a QB that could get injured a lot. Makes zero sense for them to let him go because they want to be nice.

  59. By Kevin S on Dec 17, 2012 | Reply

    Holy cow hotValleySun, you just said almost the same thing that I did, at the exact same time!

  60. By canadian redbird on Dec 17, 2012 | Reply

    It is very satisfying to get the win; however under 100 yards in passing , less then 175 total offence. You can’t be successful over the course of the year with offensive statistics as we noticed again yesterday. Its the same week after week, with no light on the horizon. We are fooling ourselves if we think that Whiz,( being a supposed offensive guru ) along with Grimm X 2 and Miller can turn this program around. For example, 3rd and 15 and we throw a 5 yard out pattern to Fitz; that is novice football. I’ll still cheer hard game in, game out but we’ll never get close again without major coaching and gm changes.

  61. By wnycardfan on Dec 17, 2012 | Reply

    actually set records in a positive way this week. Great job on D. Glad to see them kick some butt in a big way. They needed that. Proud of the Def.
    Still not sold or feeling good about a whole lot on OFF. The fact that Wells got 3 TD’s given the game the Lions played isn’;t as good as it sounds. Glad he scored, but as someone else said, still want to see more. This win, to me, doesn’t erase a 9 game losing streak where our OFF was worse than 31 other teams and seems to be a repeat of the last 3 years. IF its that bad because we drafted OFF poorly (or not at all) and our coaches had nothing to work for, i’d think we would hear a bit about that and see it as well. SOMEONE made those decisison if that is truly the case for the 3 years of crap OFF. SO that SOMEONE needs to go

  62. By hotValleySun on Dec 17, 2012 | Reply

    Kevin S, It sure looks like it.

  63. By nighthawk2005 on Dec 17, 2012 | Reply

    If intentionally sucking at my job gave us a better chance to succeed in the future, darn right I would. Why did we need this win? What good did it do? We hurt ourselves for the future, and people are thrilled about it.

    My NHL team, the Senators, used to find themselves in this same spot, out of the playoff race and nothing to play for. What did they do? They laid down, taking loss after loss and improving their draft stock. What did it get them? High picks and 11 straight years of making the playoffs once those players blossomed.

    What do the Cardinals do? Keep winning meaningless games, finishing 6-10 or 7-9 and remaining in the same cycle. You wonder why we don’t win? There’s why.

  64. By Darren Urban on Dec 17, 2012 | Reply

    Nighthawk —

    RE: “laying down”

    And if you really did do that, you’d be out of the league, apparently a martyr for a team that cut you and a fan base that wouldn’t cares if you we’re gone. So the upside is… ?

  65. By sarah on Dec 17, 2012 | Reply

    Good read .

    If Whiz is going to waive Skelton at season’s end or before why not get a game out of him ( where he can redeem and create trade value), this for a trade in the off season. For sure there will be alot of trades to get a starting QB, the draft is just more uncertainty and fans do not have the time to watch another debacle at the position (hell imagine if we had gotten Tebow). Lindley has no trade value and sadly is Max Hall without the hyper excitement within. Skelton had four tough teams, Minnesota, SF, Green Bay and Seattle (who also blew out Buffalo yesterday), 3 away games. Skelton is now on the witness protection program somewhere in the desert as opposed to the doghouse before. For sure he will be waived, why not get something for him given he played well last year and even against Dallas the year before. I have had enough of Lindley, if Patriots dude/reject is game let’s get him in for a spin.

  66. By Campbells on Dec 17, 2012 | Reply

    Funny, how a win against a 4 and 9 team makes everything better. At the end of the day, we beat a team whose season ended same time ours did.
    I understand the player’s motivation to play hard. Aside from the emotional lift, we didn’t benefit from this win.
    Whiz probably benefitted the most.
    Not sure why Bidwill was so excited. He must not live in the real world. He’s probably clueless how many season ticket holders, he may be losing.
    Let’s see how optimistic everyone is after the 49er game in 2-weeks.

  67. By john the draft guy on Dec 17, 2012 | Reply

    hot valley sun and Kevin S,

    A good QB makes an offensive line look better not worse. I get what you are saying, but the Lions get good pressure from their front 4 and don’t need to blitz. The oline played well.

    Now if you are telling me that pass rushers (who get big contracts because of the amount of sacks they get) are sitting back and not rushing hard, you are going to lose me on that one..

    Oh, Lindley is by far the worst QB I have seen and yes, throwing it to a WR seems pretty impossible for him and Skelton . So I get the logic. But pressure causes turnovers and no DC is not going after a QB, who has a perceived bad OLine and struggles with INT.

    My point is, Grimm hasn’t had much to work with. Earlier in the year I compared it to if the Dbacks had me and you , and throw Darren in there too, as their pitchers and we all got shelled game after game, would you fire the pitching coach or the clown who brought us 3 in. I think the fact that Grimm has had 2 nobodies drafted in the last 5 years, and then asked to protect the QB, is much like that pitching coach.

    The fact they drafted 3 lineman this year and Grimm has 2 of them starting and over the last 6 games, they have been solid is pretty incredible. I give Graves heck about his drafts. I said Whiz should be fired because of his QB decisions (I believe Darren has said he got exactly who he wanted). So if I am going to be hard on guys, I think it is only fair to praise them when they are doing things right.

  68. By philly cards 1994- on Dec 17, 2012 | Reply

    I hope that bidwill hi five was for no further embarrasment. Not a vote of confidence.

    One thing about whiz. No matter how good or bad the team is. He will find a way to lose between 3 and 9 games in a row at anytime. That’s his legacy.and derek anderson.

  69. By Kevin S on Dec 17, 2012 | Reply

    “Trade value” for Skelton? He’s a 5th round draft pick with a career QBR in the low 60’s after playing in parts of 3 seasons. (As a comparison, the only QB in the NFL with a rating below 70 this season is Cassel. Well, with tonight’s game Sanchez might join him — started the night at 71.8.) We couldn’t even trade Leinart, a former #10 overall pick, after deciding he was not “the guy.” Why would a QB rejected by a team that needs a QB in the worst way, be considered valuable to anyone else? Do teams give up valuable draft picks for a 2nd or 3rd string QB?

  70. By nighthawk2005 on Dec 18, 2012 | Reply

    Not true. Who says I’d be cut in that scenario? Heck, back in that season in the 1990’s, the Senators promised four players they would make next year’s team if they made sure that they lost to the Bruins in the final game.

  71. By sarah on Dec 18, 2012 | Reply


    Skelton will be picked up on waiver or traded, your negativity echo’s here in perpetuity, the resident all knowing expert ! He will be part of a package trade and will live another day. Leinart is a backup in Oakland. He will be valuable because other team’s see the bumbling of our OL and predictable OC play calling, lack of a running game while Beanie was out, mediocre receivers outside of Fitz. He is young and has shown pretty good pocket sense with a strong arm, Pete Carroll praised him running up to the last Seattle game, 6-2 last year. This year has been a disaster all around team wise and it started with the STL loss. If Skelton can get some protection, lose the have to make a play on every pass. If he plays like the Green Bay game he will be a good QB, he has shown potential in the past. He will be a backup somewhere as will Kolb. If Whiz keeps Lindley it will be a sad day, let’s see how he does against Chicago.

  72. By zbot on Dec 18, 2012 | Reply

    was this game to prove that the team could win if they realy wanted to? the win almost bothers me as much as the losses. also toler is and has been a beast.

  73. By Scott H on Dec 18, 2012 | Reply


    THANK YOU!!! SO well said. So glad to see that there are others that who will not jump up an down over 1 win in 10 games. That is pathetic. Like yourself, I will not settle for pathetic anymore.

  74. By Kevin S on Dec 18, 2012 | Reply


    I am not anything close to an expert. If you read my previous post about the O-line I admit as much. Why is it that when I give my opinion of a situation you single me out as the all-knowing expert — isn’t this blog full of fans spouting off their opinions? People like John the draft guy know way more than I do. All I’m saying is, no one is going to offer us much, if anything, for John Skelton in a trade. That is reality, not negativity. I wish they would, because we could use some add’l players to fill some holes, or some more draft picks. Might someone pick him up if we release him? Sure, to be their backup or 3rd string guy. But he’s not going to bring us significant trade value, nor is there a realistic chance that he’d build up his trade value by starting in the next game or two. (I’m not saying he shouldn’t start — I’d rather have him in there than Lindley; just saying the “trade value” rationale is a poor reason to start him. And if we kept one of Skelton or Lindley to be a 2nd or 3rd string QB next year, I’d keep Skelton. Does that make me less “negative”?)

  75. By clssylssy on Dec 19, 2012 | Reply

    funny, your response was EXACTLY how I responded to my friend who, in passing and somewhat jokingly suggested the Cousins scenario to me (he is friend/acquaintance/something? of Bruce Allen). However, perhaps there is more there than I gave credit as I read Adam Schein (reputable writer for NFL?) ar
    My reference to “sources with knowledge of the situation” was a tongue-in-cheek”, sarcastic jab at sports journalist who report on rumors or wild suggestions they pick up on the wire or in twitter…LOL! I am a skeptic at heart and am sickened by these tabloid sports writers with no journalistic integrity! You do an excellent job and I prefer to come to the Cardinal site for my information when it concerns my team as I know you won’t write anything that has not been verified. Sorry, for the misunderstanding…I guess I just get sick of the “armchair experts” at times!

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