Keim: “Larry Fitzgerald … will remain a Cardinal”

Posted by Darren Urban on October 28, 2013 – 8:07 am

We covered the Larry Fitzgerald trade rumors yesterday. Here was General Manager Steve Keim this morning on his weekly “Doug and Wolf” appearance:

“I can tell you two things, and I want to make this clear and simple: I have not had one conversation with another NFL team regarding a trade with Larry Fitzgerald,” Keim said. “Number two, starting with Michael Bidwill on down, it is our intent for Larry Fitzgerald to retire a Cardinal. Period.

“If there is any grey area there, let me know, and we can get that out.”

Keim did talk about the potential restructuring or contract issue with Fitz going forward, noting — and this is important given Fitz’s $18 million cap hit for 2014 — that the current pact has been factored into roster planning.

“We did Larry’s deal last time, and I have talked about our future looking at it with the three-year view regarding the cap and contracts, etc., (but) regardless of the situation, we have accounted for Larry’s deal moving forward,” Keim said. “Anything else that’s done is something we will have to look at and continue to talk through, but Larry Fitzgerald is a Cardinal and will remain a Cardinal.”

Keim said he wouldn’t be doing his job if he didn’t at least listen to whatever might come down the road (Wolf asked if he would pull the trigger if he were offered four No. 1 picks — which of course would never happen), but under the circumstances, the team is happy with Fitzgerald. “I’d probably have to burn 15 jerseys in my house if we did (trade him),” Keim deadpanned.

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90 Responses to “Keim: “Larry Fitzgerald … will remain a Cardinal””

  1. By Mark on Oct 28, 2013 | Reply

    Fitz is a Cardinal and will remain a Cardinal. We can’t afford to lose him as a team. He is a leader and once he gets past this injury that seems to slow him down he will dominate again. Trading him or not paying him is not an option. Are you listening Bidwells?? If you do, you will have a very empty stadium on Sundays. 90% of the jerseys in the stands are number 11.

  2. By David from San Antonio on Oct 28, 2013 | Reply

    Darren, Keim did a good job putting the rumors to rest as soon as he could. Thank you for posting this for those of us who cant listen to Doug and Wolf due to location!

  3. By Dino on Oct 28, 2013 | Reply

    I believe Larry would easily stay & take a pay cut or something IF convinced by the organization that Keim,Bidwill etc. can get back to the Superbowl in a year or two.AND WIN IT!!! And until then at least make the PLAYOFFS AGAIN EACH TIME! Larry has made it clear he wants to stay here & retire as a CARDINAL,Bidwill needs to take advantage of this-the Right way-& be alot more aggressive to get things done! But don’t get me wrong it’s not about doing this just for one player! But also for the team,franchise,family & most importantly THE FANS!!! Now lets get on the ball & WIN THIS THING!!!

  4. By Darren Urban on Oct 28, 2013 | Reply

    Dino —

    RE: Fitz

    I think Fitz wants to win, yes.

    But if you think he will take a pay cut, I’m thinking you are probably misguided.

  5. By John The Draft Guy on Oct 28, 2013 | Reply

    Well That settles that.

  6. By LG on Oct 28, 2013 | Reply

    everybody said the falcons got the edge on us. i guess they was talking about they on the edge of an ass kicking 6-4 here we come BIRDGANG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  7. By John The Draft Guy on Oct 28, 2013 | Reply

    As for the game,

    Tony Gonzales was a non factor as the defense finally found a way to take out the other teams TE.

    Lots of pressure on Ryan with 4 sacks and 4 picks. Nice job coming after the QB.

    Ellington’s big run was suppose to go to the right side. He saw the hole open left and did a nice jump step to the left. Watch it again and see what Floyd does to the corner. He drives this guy 15yrds inside, giving the edge for Ellington. Floyd has to be the best blocking WR in football.

    There were a few times Ellington got up slow. I was thinking he should have had about 5 less carries and Taylor 5 more. We need this kid for the whole year.

    BTW, Ellington ran a 4.61 40 at the combine. Being small and slow, caused him to drop to the 6th round. Mike Mayock said dont believe the 4.61 and watch his tape. Mike was right because on that 80 yard run, he looked like a 4.3 guy.

    When Palmer has to move his feet and scramble, bad things happen. Give him a nice pocket and he throws a nice ball. (Roberts didnt do him any favors by not coming back to the ball, but the pick was a bad decision.)

    After Fast Teddy’s 51 yd catch, I think everyone learned what Arians is looking for when he has been searching for a slot WR.

    Sowell is a bad run blocker. Watch Ellingtons long run, he touches no one. That is only one play but it happens often when he is asked to pull or get to the second level. But give him credit, he did handle Osi fairly well on pass plays.

    Huge win, Now a bye, A Texan team struggling, and the pitiful Jags. I see two wins ahead and a 6-4 record. A tough battle with a very good Colt team at home and then winable games against Philly and home against the rams and road against the Titans. We could come out of that stretch 9-5 with the big showdowns against niners and seahawks to end the year. 8 wins, 9 wins, 10 wins, whatever it ends up being, I see the direction the team is heading and am really looking forward to how good we can be with another off season.

  8. By John The Draft Guy on Oct 28, 2013 | Reply


    I guess a follow up question is, what do you do with Docketts contract? At the beginning of the year, it was a no brainer, he would be cut. But he has elevated his game the last 6 weeks and has turned back the clock to 2008.

    Can you pay him 8 mil next year or will the have to have a new contract or cut him?

    I would be interested in what Keim is thinking there.

  9. By Darren Urban on Oct 28, 2013 | Reply

    JTDG —

    RE: Dockett

    A very good question, especially since Darnell would seem to be the type who wouldn’t react well to such a suggestion. I would think you’d have to consider your options at the very least.

  10. By Patrick Hoog aka Don't Take Losses on Oct 28, 2013 | Reply

    “But if you think he will take a pay cut, I’m thinking you are probably misguided”.

    There’s the rub, can’t be a lifer w/o some concession… he started out paid too well and is overpaid right here right now. Overpaid? Yep, the other guys have to eat too… we need to get out from under the original mistake… Larry’s gotta play ball.. or not… Its’ not all about being PC and taking the $$ quietly, its about team for a lifer.

  11. By D on Oct 28, 2013 | Reply

    Coming into this year I was guessing of the vets that maybe on their last tour with AZ I was thinking Dockett and Colledge and a restructure of Larry’s deal. I still think either Dockett or Colledge won’t be here next year, even though both have played very well so far. You have to look at who could fill the hole if one or the other is released. Maybe Watford has a chance at R. Guard next year if he get’s some playing time this year. The only option with Dockett replacement would be to resign Talley and M. Shaughnessy until a draft pick would be ready.
    Darren, do you see Keim resigning the following players either during the year or at the end of year if player wants to stay here: Do they have the cap space now?
    1- Shaughnessy
    2- Roberts
    3- Benard.

  12. By Darren Urban on Oct 28, 2013 | Reply

    D —

    RE: Cap space

    It would all depend on what deals they were offering these guys. I can see all three possibly coming back, but only at the right prices.

  13. By mal on Oct 28, 2013 | Reply


    But neither Larry nor Darnell need to technically take less money, right? Just re-structure, so the contact is back-loaded instead of front-loaded, right?

    I have faith in both Fitz and Doc — theyre rich already, team oriented, in their 30’s, and really want to win at this stage of their careers.

  14. By Darren Urban on Oct 28, 2013 | Reply

    Mal —

    RE: Restructure

    Technically, they do not.

    But restructuring like you suggest just pushes the cap issues you might have now into the future. That is a dangerous way to live as a franchise (see Steelers, Pittsburgh). And if a player is no longer worth the money he is being paid, a team has to consider alternatives.

    Oh, and last thing. Not that there is anything wrong with it, but being rich already usually doesn’t play into what a player is thinking with a contract. They want as much as they can get.

  15. By red bird of death! on Oct 28, 2013 | Reply

    OK we can grab these next three games if we believe, I believe and that’s all that matters to me, god bless America and the Arizona Cardinals.

  16. By clssylssy on Oct 28, 2013 | Reply

    A team should not enter into a contract with a player they cannot afford. If the Cards couldn’t afford Larry why did they make a commitment to him? To justify reneging on his deal is like justifying the purchase of a high performance sports car that is beyond your budget, driving the wheels off it & not maintaining it properly, then walking away from the contract because there are other things you would rather spend money on and the “new” has worn off. A lot of parents want their kids to play sports to learn about values…loyalty, honor and commitment,etc and take them to Cardinals games to see athletes like Fitz, who have achieved the level of success he has through faith, focus and hard work earning the respect of his peers and professional colleagues and affection from the fans. I have followed the Cards through the good, bad, and the ugly of the past twenty years because of the caliber of athletes we have who represent the values I find more important than getting to the playoffs every year.
    I am relieved to hear that Mr. Bidwill and Steve Keim seem to recognize the importance of finding ways to succeed WITHOUT sacrificing integrity and ethical practice in the process! Next year looks like another “bumper crop” of QB talent and I imagine that we willl get our franchise QB in the draft. In the meantime, I have been impressed with Palmer’s ability to move past the errors and keep his head under duress and the level of leadership in the locker room culminating in a TEAM effort. This was a fun game to watch because of the level of talent on both teams and the payoff for the extra hard work. Padded practice…GOOD CALL Coach! Perhaps that what has been missing all along?

  17. By Darren Urban on Oct 28, 2013 | Reply

    Clssy —

    RE: Contracts

    I truly believe you are a devoted fan, Clssy. But when it comes to pro sports, I am not sure what alternate universe you are living in.

  18. By jasonc on Oct 28, 2013 | Reply

    I got on to see what the ‘word on the blog’ would be this morning extremely interested in what the gloom and doom crowd would have to say. Georgiebird is the only usual negative poster that made a comment and it was surprisingly positive (unless you count the dig against the baseball cards where he alludes that their terrible game last night was how the football Cards normally play).

    @JTDG I want to go back and watch the game before I make judgement on Sowell but the Ellington run after Carson took that shot in the end zone to Fitz…the one I think is a TD if Larry is healthy…he pulls and makes 3 great blocks. You have to see it, he looks like an all-pro out there.

    Carson Palmer-Does it really need to be said that if we protect this guy he can still spin in like an elite QB and if he has to scramble his productivity will fall off? It’s always been the book on him, even before the injuries. Is everyone aware that pro football focus gives our O-line a -43.2 pass block grade? By far the worst mark in the league. This is why I’m confident that not only is Carson our best option right now, but he is the guy that can win for us in the playoffs in the future…provided we can protect his guy, haha.

  19. By John The Draft Guy on Oct 28, 2013 | Reply


    Darnell has to be wise enough to understand the business side of it and that 33 year old DT/DE’s dont get 8 mil that often.

    Especially since his play was less than stellar the last couple years and now has found a system that he is thriving in again. Do you let him test the market to find his value?

    Of course, I wouldnt approach the issue till the end of the year, but it must be approached, right?

    Another older guy who will be looking for more money possibly is Abraham. He has played really well. (1) Can we afford him the way he is playing? (2) Is it smart to sign him to anything longer than another 1 year deal? (3) Do you believe he can play this well another year older?

    I think guys like Colledge and Winston, who have young guys nipping at their heels, have to feel that those large salaries are not going to be there next year. I’ve listened to Winston and he seems like a guy who is very with it.

    I guess for both sides it is worry about today and let tomorrow take care of itself. In the NFL, I guess that is all you can do.

    As for Roberts, I just don’t see how he returns. Palmer very rarely looks his way. The team wants to play 2 TEs and with Fitz and Floyd, that limits Roberts. Then when they go 4 wide, I could see them go with Housler and a speedster as the other two. I am having a hard time figuring out how Roberts fits into the picture here.

  20. By Kevin S Mesa on Oct 28, 2013 | Reply

    It’s an extremely complicated problem. I want Fitz to remain a Cardinal as well, as I agree with the fans who believe he is the face of the franchise, one of the top people (not just players) in the NFL, etc. But if keeping him means sacrificing too much at other positions, can you do it and expect to be successful? And this is without even getting into the fact that he will be 31 at the start of next season.

    Whether you feel his decline in his recent stats is totally on our QB’s and that Fitz is still in his prime, or not, at some point, in the NFL, the money you pay a guy has to make sense relative to the salary cap and the rest of your team. In baseball, teams are getting burned constantly by paying the big money to guys whose best years are behind them — but they continue to do it because unlike football, there is no hard cap, just a luxury tax. Overpaying for an A-Rod or Pujols doesn’t prevent you from keeping anyone else as long as the owner is willing to write the check. I do not envy Keim’s situation. If he can figure out a way to keep Larry here through a restructuring, great. But I hope I don’t start reading stuff here from “fans” saying things like, “If they don’t keep Fitz I will no longer be a Cardinals fan.” No one player is more important than the team.

  21. By John The Draft Guy on Oct 28, 2013 | Reply


    Sometimes I think things are obvious and find out others are lost. The constant attacks against Palmer by fans seems like they dont see the obvious.

    I would say besides the one pick, Palmer was very accurate with the ball. The few passes incomplete , were on target and the defender made a nice play.

    But I do have to say, yes the pick was a bad decision, but a wr can not stay on a spot. he has to come back to the ball. Roberts did a bad job on that one.

    Maybe Sowell has made some nice run blocks, but I have seen a very inconsistent guy in the run game who misses blocks when asked to get to the next level. I dont see the aggression I want to see out of my oline.
    With that being said, he can improve in those areas. He had a better game with pass protection, which goes hand in hand with the fact we could run the ball. (I know , Obvious again) . As I said all along, he has a long season to keep improving.

  22. By Kevin S Mesa on Oct 28, 2013 | Reply

    Clssylssy —

    Fitz knew when he signed that contract that if the team cut him down the road, they wouldn’t have to pay him. Or that he could be traded. So what’s “unethical” about the team taking advantage of those options? There’s guaranteed money, and there’s non-guaranteed money. That’s how it works.

  23. By stfuirsay on Oct 28, 2013 | Reply

    @ David from San Antonio

    You are able to listen to Dough & Wolf anytime, anywhere with:

  24. By Steve W on Oct 28, 2013 | Reply

    I am a huge fan of Fitz, but I want to see the Cards as a team succeed as well. If hanging onto their star receiver costs too much in the long run, I think the true fans would understand that, ultimately, football is a business sport. And I have no doubt that Fitz would understand that as well.

    That said, I can see the front office and Fitz try like hell to come up with some kind of negotiation to try and keep him a Card, if it’s possible to do so. And if not, I will certainly wish him well wherever he goes, and I have no doubt the Cards will see to it that he goes to a contender. Outside of our division, of course!

    Lets go Cards, I think we have a decent shot for a playoff spot yet this year if we play like we did yesterday!

  25. By Andy Kw on Oct 28, 2013 | Reply

    WR Larry Fitzgerald is our team captain. The Cardinal nation respects him and I have all the respect for him. He is essential to our teams success and makes sure that this team is always in contention in every game. WR Larry Fitzgerald is the best receiver in the NFL and is admired across the nation. If you Bidwells get rid of him, you guys are making the worst decision of your lives.

  26. By craig on Oct 28, 2013 | Reply

    You dumb asses If you git rid of fitz you will see the fans (including me )
    going too the seahawks—I’m a fitzaholic!!

  27. By Matthew Thomas on Oct 28, 2013 | Reply

    They better not trade Larry because we need him. If they trade him I’ll be so ANGRY!!!! >:(

  28. By Cardsfn on Oct 28, 2013 | Reply

    That is great news Fitz should retire a cardinal. I think he will agree to restructure his contract for the benefit of the team. I think Palmer finally woke up and we just woke up a sleeping giant in our run game. Bring on Houston ! Go cards !!!

  29. By Eric G on Oct 28, 2013 | Reply

    I saw the rumors and instantly though, yeah right, never going to happen. The fans would revolt if the Cards traded him without Fitz asking to be traded. I can’t see Fitz asking to be traded, he’s too much of a gentleman for that.

    I can’t even fathom what would be acceptable in return, at least two straight first round picks from a team, which I can’t see anyone giving up that.

  30. By HunterSThompson on Oct 28, 2013 | Reply

    On the win:

    Really great win for the Cardinals, most importantly because it was probably the most complete and balanced team victory in at least a couple of years! Defense stood tough early, offense got going in both the pass AND the run, and the defense made some nice adjustments to hold on for the W.

    Liked that Arians had backs and tight ends helping out the Tackles on a few key plays where the design took time to develop.

    To echo Jason C – that pull/lead by Sowell did indeed have 3 solid blocks in it that directly contributed to additional yards. The kid still can look overwhelmed out there, but he just might hold up for the rest of this season.

    Also liked that Bowles had press-double coverage on Gonzalez at the line a few times that kept him from getting off. If that is what it takes, so be it as long as we get pressure on the QB so no passes end up deep behind it.

    The combo of Taylor and Ellington looked great running the ball. I can definitely see why Ellington needs to be limited in carries – his beauty is in the speed/quick game that will suffer if he gets nicked up through banging inside runs. His hands are absolutely fantastic as well!

    A game that the Cards should have won, and they took care of business. Hope springs eternal!

  31. By HunterSThompson on Oct 28, 2013 | Reply

    On the Playoffs:

    Although I hate the Cowboys and in the moment I was cheering for the Lions, that win for Detroit yesterday really hurts the Cardinals in the playoff push.

    Assuming that the first wildcard spot goes to the 49ers, it looks to me to come down to the Cards, Lions, and Panthers for the final spot (Assuming Cutler is out for a bit for the Bears). Head to head results are the first tiebreaker and the Cards have wins over both the Lions and Panthers already.

    It would have been really nice to see the Lions and Cardinals tied at 4-4, given that the Lions have a so-so tough schedule ahead. The Panthers have a tougher schedule with an extra game to play (they already had their bye).

    Given the tiebreaker edge, I think a 9-7 record for the Cardinals will put them in the playoffs, and 8-8 just might as well. That still means they need 4-5 wins in the next 8. On paper I would pencil in wins against Houston, Jacksonville and St Louis. Do the 49ers fold it up for the last game of the season to rest players, possibly providing an easier road to win 4? Can Arians figure out how to beat the Colts here? If not, the Cards are going to need a road win in Tennessee, Philly, or Seattle.

    Yesterday was a huge win, and I’m psyched that we can speculate about playoffs for a few weeks longer at least. Seeing that total team effort in a strong win provides some hope. Let’s see if the Cardinals can take advantage of a very real opportunity.

  32. By D on Oct 28, 2013 | Reply


    I believe this is the right time for Mr.Keim to offer the Eagles something for N. Foles. He has a bum melon right now, but he is also looking at backing up Barkley if he doesn’t watch out for next year.
    I think he is a strong arm QB that this team can build around for the future. I would offer the Eagles, R. Lindley and R. Williams. Or one of those players and a sixth round draft pick.

    Some additional TE’s that could be released by end of the week that maybe worth kicking the tires if they make it past waivers to AZ, F. Davis and M. Lewis.

  33. By Jim E. on Oct 28, 2013 | Reply

    I read on that Larry’s agents are most likely the ones who stirred all this up in order to help in the offseason. Greedy agent goons ofcourse. Speaking of goons, who is the reporter who made the statement to Larry saying “well you have 8 now then”? That guy asks the worst questions by far in every presser.

  34. By Kevin S Mesa on Oct 28, 2013 | Reply

    HunterSThompson —

    8-8 has virtually no chance of getting us in, not after Detroit pulled out that win yesterday. They only have to go 4-4 the rest of the way to finish 9-7. Their next 3 are against Cutler-less Chicago, Pittsburgh (2-5) and winless Tampa. Then after playing GB, they have 4 games in a row against currently sub-.500 teams (Philly, Baltimore, NYG, Minnesota). The combined record of Detroit’s remaining 8 opponents is 20-38. Barring a major surprise, they’ll finish at least 9-7 and have a very good chance of exceeding that. Dallas’ failure to finish the job hurts big time.

  35. By HunterSThompson on Oct 28, 2013 | Reply

    On Larry and his contract:

    To be clear, I really like Larry and the stable credibility and class he has brought to the Cardinals. I am fully aware of the impact he has had in attracting national attention to this team in a positive way, both in the media and amongst the players. I have also really enjoyed watching his incredible talent on the field and the intense passion he shares with his teammates.

    In an ideal world I would love to watch Larry retire a Cardinal while finishing out his next four years (after this one) of guaranteed contract years. BUT – paying Larry what the Cardinals do over those years far outweighs what he contributes (and decreasing will) ON the field.

    Restructuring Larry’s contract seems to me to be a bad idea as well. Despite my hopes and optimism, if the ultimate goal for this franchise truly is a Superbowl Championship astute fans and leadership have to admit that the Cardinals are AT LEAST a couple of years away from doing so. Does it not make sense to take the huge cap hits from Larry’s contract over the next two seasons, rather than pushing them back into years where we will be (hopefully) looking for some final pieces to make this team great?

    That’s great the Kiem came out so definitively with the statements he made today – I know that it has made thing simpler (in one way) to discuss this team’s future. What it does not do is change the reality of the holes on this team or the draft picks and future salary needed to fill them. Should be interesting watching Kiem back up his talk….

  36. By Kevin S Mesa on Oct 28, 2013 | Reply

    By the way Clssylssy, just look at some of the commentary on Joe Flacco’s contract signed after winning the SB this year. It’s a 6-year, $120M deal but everyone is talking about it as essentially a 3-year deal because he’s due $29M in the fourth year. Everyone knows that won’t be workable (unless the NFL greatly increases the cap due to new TV money). Flacco knew when he signed that he probably had no chance of actually seeing that money in the 4th year, but it provides a baseline for a renegotiation three years from now.

  37. By Chuck 1 on Oct 28, 2013 | Reply

    Let’s put the blame for Fitz’s (and the Cards’) salary and salary cap problem squarely where it belongs.

    Right at Rod Graves’ feet.

  38. By Dynosoar on Oct 28, 2013 | Reply

    Carson Palmer has a 61.3% completion. 15 QB’s with over 100 passing attempts have higher. Rivers is the highest with 73%. Palmer had 72% this weekend.

    Things are improving.

  39. By stfuirsay on Oct 28, 2013 | Reply

    The Offensive Line did relatively well this week against Atlanta. Props to Floyd and Fitz for their respective blocks too.

  40. By Dr. G. on Oct 28, 2013 | Reply

    JTDG’s assessments as some others’ are well thought… I appreciate the analyses, however, and , but, so then, etc… No way our Cards make the second season with less than 10 wins. That means 6-2 the rest of the way. Can we do that? We are already 2 wins down to 4 other teams. We would need help from their losses. Too bad we lost a couple winnable games early on.

    There are some very winnable games on the horizon, but with our division, the only chance is a wild card, and it looks like the 49’ers or Stl will be one of them. Can we defeat both back-to-back?

    I am the eternal optimist with the recent developments the team has made, but Vegas is not. My solace is in what appears to be a serious turn-around for the future. Some of those 1-year deals will create challenges to sign or replace.

    Be well my fellow fans…..

  41. By HunterSThompson on Oct 28, 2013 | Reply

    Playing Armchair GM –

    Great article by Bill Barnwell of Grantland regarding the Cowboys salary cap disaster approaching next season:

    What I take away from that read is that frankly, the Cardinals are in not much better position going forward…especially with word today that Steve Kiem has accounted for Larry Fitzgerald’s contract and is intent on seeing him retire a Cardinal. A bit of research (thanks to into the Cardinals salaries going forward reveals some truly scary realities:

    Using rounded numbers, the Cardinals are about 7 mill under the salary cap this season. Their dead money goes down by about 8 mill next season, effectively putting them 15 mill under the cap, all other things being equal. Next season’s salary cap is estimated to remain about the same. Unfortunately, the Cardinals salaries/cap hits (not just Larry’s) go up dramatically next season. Check out these increases to key players:
    Fitz:+8 mill
    Calais Campbell: +2.5 mill
    Darnell Dockett: +1 mill
    Carson Palmer: +6 mill
    Daryl Washington: +4 mill
    Powers: +2 mill
    Abraham: + 1.4 mill
    Brinkley: +1 mill

    That’s an increase of 26 million for guys most people see as automatic keepers for next season, which puts the Cardinals 11 million over the cap for next season…assuming that all other aspects of the roster remain the same. But do they??? Let’s see:

    The Cards have a tone of unrestricted free agents after this season, including:
    Eric Winston
    Javier Arenas
    Yeremiah Bell
    Karlos Dansby
    Jim Dray
    Jay Feely
    Andre Roberts
    Frostee Rucker
    Matt Shaughnessy
    Alameda Ta’amu
    Dave Zastudil

    Since so many people on these boards like to point out that the roster needs to be filled, and since we are discussing how the Cardinals IMPROVE rather than tread water in the NFC West, what guys above just might command a salary increase over this season? All of them? If not, do you really think quality replacements will be cheaper?

    So how far over the cap are the Cardinals for next season given just the above REALITIES? 15 million???

    A couple of key points that drive home the problem going forward:

    – The Cardinals starting Left Tackle (an important position, no?) makes $480,000 this year. Many pundits here have the Cardinals signing a free agent LT in the offseason. Just how much might he cost….and where is the money coming from?

    – A first round QB draft pick would make $1.6 mill +/-, and given the Cardinals potential record, would not be one of the top guys. That makes Carson Palmer a keeper, whether we like it or not….but the cap hit for the position goes up.

    – Patrick Peterson is an Unrestricted Free Agent after next season. What will his new contract be worth, and will the Cardinals really wait until AFTER next season to write it up? If not, his cap hit is going up…A LOT.

    – Cardinals will only have 6 draft picks next season (we owe one to the Raiders for Carson Palmer). So much for 7 new bodies through the draft.

    Hate to be the downer here, but these are the facts. Where are the Cardinals getting 11-15 million in cap relief if we keep Larry? Is pushing his cap hit into future years when we really might be good the correct move? I’d love to hear some answers….

  42. By jasonc on Oct 28, 2013 | Reply

    @JTDG-We signed Abraham on a 2 year deal, not a 1 year deal like alot of our other FA’s this offseason, so we have him for another season. As far as Sowell, I wasn’t trying to say he was fixed…I was simply stating that on that play he looked AMAZING! He looked completely inept in the Seahawks game so I’ll take his play on Sunday anyday of the week.

  43. By HunterSThompson on Oct 28, 2013 | Reply

    Kevin S –

    Re: Detroit’s upcoming schedule – The only thing I think makes their trip a little harder than just the quality of opponent is that a few of those key games are on the road in tough places to play, and Detroit has shown the ability to slip up on the road (see vs. the Cardinals).

    I agree though, 9-7 for the Cardinals makes the playoffs more realistic. IMO that makes the key games (outside of the 3 wins I already have penciled in) the Colts, 49ers, and Philly….with Tennessee being a possible win as well. 2 wins out of those 4 games is a tall task, but possible (right now, anyway).

    Need to take care of business first. Houston and Jacksonville! Go Cards!

  44. By Scott H on Oct 28, 2013 | Reply

    Well. it’s one thing for the Cardinals to say what they’re saying RIGHT NOW. Maybe they have no intentions of trading Fitz RIGHT NOW. Maybe they want him to retire as a Cardinal RIGHT NOW. Fine. But…these things can change quickly. And they often do. Suppose THEIR idea of when Fitz should retire as a Cardinal is different than HIS??? Suppose THEIR plans / needs say they should move on before Fitz would want to stop playing? AND suppose it reaches a point where the there is no hope of Fitz winning a SB here BUT he could definitely go to a contender elsewhere and have a real chance to achieve that goal?

    That last one is quite realistic.

    Peyton Manning…Jerry Rice…Emmitt Smith…Brett Favre…Aeneas Williams…even the great Joe Montana. They were all SO synonomous with their respective teams…until those teams decided they wanted to move on and those players decided they wanted to keep playing. So…there is no reason to believe it would never happen with Fitz, despite what he or the team says RIGHT NOW.

  45. By Dr. G. on Oct 28, 2013 | Reply

    Hunter: You are counting on Detroit, Carolina and Chicago going less than 500 the rest of the way to make 9-7 realistic. If we played them, that would open things up, but we don’t.

    I suggest you don’t give credence to the Colts and the 49’er. Those games are not going to be easy; winning 1 of those 2 would be a supreme effort. If we play as yesterday, the next 3 games are winnable; the Titans are decent. And then comes the other division games, Seattle and the Rams. Sharpen your pencil, and see if you can get 6 wins from all this and I’m with you…. 9-7? Just don’t see it at this juncture…. Take care…. P.S. Fitz will restructure…just got an omen…!!!

  46. By mal on Oct 28, 2013 | Reply

    Dr G-

    I think youre figuring this wrong.

    If the Cards, Detroit, and Carolina all end up at 9-7, then AZ is the Wildcard and the other guys go home, becuz we have the tie-breaker (we defeated them both).

  47. By Dr. G. on Oct 28, 2013 | Reply

    Darren – My thoughts on Fitz – I just said he would restructure. Here is my thinking: See if you see anything here…

    Fitz is indeed the face of the organization, but he is not a national icon like Peyton or Rogers… If he held out and left, a new town would not present him with all the advertising revenue opportunities he gets here (talking $$$$ here) especially if he is just little better that average. Promo $$$$ is fairly large, and he could lose it if he bails. Many players have made more in ads that salary.

    He would need a prime-time QB, and the same $$$$, and a commitment from a new team that he would be “the man.” That just does not seem like him.

    There are only a handful of those QB’s in the league who could fulfill that requirement. It would be a BIG GAMBLE for another team to sign him with a large guarantee at 31 years old. And no team would want to pay big for a 1 year deal.

    A new town would have immediate expectations and demand instant results. No pressure there!!

    I really admire Fitz, but if he bails, there are other faces like Campbell, Peterson, Washington, and upcoming Floyd. (Tyrann?)

    Be well….

  48. By mal on Oct 28, 2013 | Reply

    In other words, nobody needs to go “less than 500”.

    Detroit can go 4-4 and Chicago and Carolina can go 5-4, but thats not good enough if the Cards are 9-7, too.

  49. By Dr. G. on Oct 28, 2013 | Reply

    mal – I understand the 9-7 thing… not sure how the tie breaker would work if the Bears went 9-7. I will check that out; perhaps you can also. My point was that we cannot expect all three teams to have a less that 9-7 record at the end. As you know we can expect STL or 49’ers to be a wild card unless there is a mega collapse… Only 1 left up for grabs… Thanks

  50. By Kevin S Mesa on Oct 28, 2013 | Reply

    If they were all 9-7 (unlikely) and we were too, then you first apply the division tiebreaker to eliminate one of CHI or DET. If that resulted in eliminating CHI, we’d win (having beaten the other two). If it eliminated DET, then you’d apply the 3-way tiebreakers, the first of which (after head-to-head sweep which won’t apply) is conference record.

    Carolina has some tough games — 2 vs. the Saints who may be playing for home field advantage or at least a bye, at SF, home vs. NE. CHI seems unlikely to be our competition w/ Cutler out for a while. Detroit seems to have the inside track, so I’ll definitely be rooting for CHI in two weeks when they play Detroit.

  51. By mal on Oct 28, 2013 | Reply

    Dr G-

    Your point is “that we cannot expect all three teams to have a less than 9-7 record at the end”, but my point is that none of those other teams need have “less than 9-7 record”.

    All four teams (Chicago, Detroit, Carolina, AZ) can have a 9-7 record at the end, but they go home and AZ is the Wildcard becuz we have the tie-breaker with all three of those other teams.

  52. By Dr. G. on Oct 28, 2013 | Reply

    mal – the realm of 9-7 stands as a mathematical possibility to make a Wild card slot, though I still think remote. Quirky things have happened, like STL winning the DIV with 7-9…. But with the recent parity in the league, in the past few years, I can find no team as an NFC “Wildcard” team. There are many with 10-6 that did not make it. Thank you for clarifying.

    I would love to see our Cards make it; Keim and Arians would be heroic…

  53. By cardsalltheway on Oct 28, 2013 | Reply

    “You dumb asses If you git rid of fitz you will see the fans (including me )
    going too the seahawks—I’m a fitzaholic!!”

    You must be wiggin out then because things haven’t been going very well for quite a long time. Let’s dump this dude Fitz and get as much as we can for him. We don’t have anybody who can help Larry do good. Let’s do Fitz and the Cardinals Org. a favor, not since Kurt Warner 2008/09 have we been able to maximize Larry’s value.

  54. By Dr. G. on Oct 28, 2013 | Reply

    mal – my point was that we could not expect all those teams to be “only” 9-7. They may be better, and we are already a game or two behind…. but who knows? All we can do is root them on…. If we make the wild card spot with 9-7, I will eat my sombrero! But I will be happy! Later

  55. By jasonc on Oct 28, 2013 | Reply


    Since we don’t know what next years cap will be I will just use last years figure.

    2014 Salary cap $123,000,000
    2013 Cap carry over $6,948,234
    2014 Adjusted salary cap $129,948,234
    2014 Contracts $111,357,730
    2014 Dead money $9,913,626
    2014 Cap space $8,676,878

    This is what we stand at for next year before we restructure any contracts or cut any players. Here are just a few examples of favorable contracts.

    Darnell Dockett $8,750,000 – $6,000,000 = $2,750,000
    Daryn Colledge $7,275,000 – $4,550,000 = $2,725,000
    Jasper Brinkley $2,200,000 – $ 200,000 = $2,000,000
    Ryan Williams $1,593,274 – $ 535,442 = $1,057,832
    Savings $8,532,832

    So that is $17,209,710 without even breaking a sweat. Not sure what you’re freaking out about.

  56. By ored on Oct 28, 2013 | Reply

    even if a trade does happen,won’t be soon unless somebody throws out a minny-dallas type deal,and if keim is already figuring in a 3 yr horizon at current numbers,then seems to me the path of least resistance is, larry stays and we want him to a case like fitzs,it’s not always about the numbers,at least until they are actually hurting the team,but with his work ethic that’s probably a ways down the road,even in his 30’s,so i would figure on him being a core piece for awhile.

  57. By jasonc on Oct 28, 2013 | Reply

    To elaborate some more lets say it takes 11 million to re-sign our own free agents. I’m thinking Dansby, Arenas, Shaughnessy, Ta’amu, Talley, Dray, Feeley and Zastudil…yes I left off Roberts and even though I like him as a player he is probably worth more than I would pay for him. Then we need around 5 million for rookie contracts which is roughly 16 million to re-sign our players and for rookie contracts which leaves us roughly 1 million left over. We would need to restructure or make more cuts in order to make a big name free agent signing.

  58. By HunterSThompson on Oct 28, 2013 | Reply

    jasonC –

    Wow. Cut Dockett and College, replace them with nothing and call no big deal, huh? Don’t bother to give PP a new contract and say I’m freaking out, huh? Don’t address the Left Tackle position, and keep Palmer at 10 million…..??? Not even sure where your numbers come from….

    Admittedly I’m not a cap expert but I did put in some research time into the specifics behind the numbers, using some reputable sources, and Barnwell as a guide. Please provide your alternative sources, cuz everything I am hearing says the Cardinals have a storm of contract drama coming next season (even according to Kiem)…..while you seem to have solved it all on the back of a napkin.

    Something makes me think its not that easy….

  59. By HunterSThompson on Oct 28, 2013 | Reply

    Jason C –
    You are really trying to tell us that according to your calculations the Cardinals do not even have to restructure Fitz’s 18 mill cap number for 2014 or his 21 mill cap number for 2015… Let alone the 18-15 mill per until 2019 in order to make the Cardinals viable under the salary cap…let alone in a position to actually improve via more than 7 draft picks per year or aggressive free agent signings??? Wow. Just wow……

  60. By Chuck 1 on Oct 28, 2013 | Reply

    Let’s use an analogy to consider Keim’s and Larry’s salary and salary cap space situation A fan recently wrote something like this on this blog, but it bears repeating

    If you spend almost all of your money on a Lamborgheni, how much do you have left for food, a roof over your head and other necessities?

  61. By jasonc on Oct 28, 2013 | Reply


    I used that you cited, all the numbers are there. I think we do need to restructure Fitz’s deal in order to sign a FA left tackle but, no we don’t need to do it to be able to re-sign our FA’s that I listed (provided those contracts could be made @ or under the 11 million figure I suggested) or our rookies.

    We might not have to cut Dockett if we can restructure his deal, I was simply stating that he had a contract that we could add money to our cap number if he was released. If we sign Shaunessy he could fill the void left by Dockett. Colledge is a guy that I think will be released because he isn’t a 7.275 million dollar guard. We have Earl Watford who the coaches love, we will have Cooper back from injury and we have Fanika under contract for next season. I saw a mock draft by Matt Miller where he has us selecting Cameron Erving LT FSU in the first round and Michael Sam OLB Missouri in the second round….there is your LT and another pass rusher to fill the void left by Shaunessy filling the Dockett void.

    PP’s contract is something that I don’t know about. For instance he is under contract next season for around 6 million…if we reach a deal next season for the 2015 season does that number wait until the 2015 season? Or is that factored into the 2014 cap number? So I didn’t address it because I was just trying to show the numbers for next year, but if you want to talk about 2015 then we can. The 9.9 million of dead money we have next season doesn’t exist in 2015 so there is 10 million dollars (although there will be more dead money depending on cuts so we won’t see the entire 10), Abrahams contract is over that year so there is another 3 million and Carson’s deal we can void 5 days after the 2014 Super Bowl which would cancel the 12 million he is scheduled to make in 2015 if we decide to move on. I’m not trying to be a smart ass I’m just telling you the numbers. You can go look them up and check my math, or if I’m wrong I’m completely open to you explaining it to me.

  62. By jasonc on Oct 28, 2013 | Reply

    Here is 2013 with our $6,948,234 surplus of cap space, which according to the new collective bargaining agreement we can roll over to 2014.

    Here are the numbers for 2014.

  63. By jasonc on Oct 28, 2013 | Reply

    Furthermore my numbers reflect us losing 13 FA’s next year. 5 players will come off of IR that we already have under contract plus the 6 draft picks we currently have for next year. So without restructuring Fitz’s deal we have 2 more roster spots to fill with the 1 million and change remaining after we sign the FA’s I suggested and our draft picks.

  64. By jasonc on Oct 28, 2013 | Reply

    Whoops….I’m wrong. We have 42 players under contract already for next season, if we re-sign the guys I said that is 8 players plus 6 draft picks puts us at 56 players minus the 4 cuts and we’re at 52. So we’d have to sign one player to make the 53 man roster and since only the top 51 count against the salary cap we’d subtract two of the $495,000 contracts from the total and add that to the $1.2 million left over and we have $2,190,000 dollars to spend on a FA.

    I doubt if this is 100% accurate since I’m a complete amateur, but I think I’m in the ball park.

  65. By HunterSThompson on Oct 29, 2013 | Reply

    JasonC –
    I apologize for getting a bit flip last night. Your point about salary cap carryover is not a fix, IMO, nor is endless restructuring of contracts. Both simply push the economic problems into the future….kind of like paying off a maxed out credit card with another card that has room on it. Is this team really ready to make a Superbowl run this season or next? That would be the only way I could see justifying salary-cap shell games.

    Short-term vs long term seems to be the real debate….

  66. By HunterSThompson on Oct 29, 2013 | Reply

    JasonC – Thanks for the info. I freely admit that the NFL salary cap system is a tough one for me to completely grasp, but I am trying, and appreciate the dialogue.

  67. By Kevin S Mesa on Oct 29, 2013 | Reply

    Chuck 1 —

    I like that analogy. It puts the issue squarely. This isn’t MLB where the owners can pay out as much as they want and just pay the luxury tax. It’s a hard cap. People don’t understand that you can’t have Fitz AND a great QB AND keep all your other veteran favorites (like Adrian Wilson) AND hang onto guys like PP when they are due for the big $ AND have enough money left to also ensure you have solid players in the “grunt” positions like O-line. The SB champion Ravens asked their leading receiver (Boldin) to take a pay cut; he refused; now he’s a 49er. It’s today’s NFL.

  68. By jasonc on Oct 29, 2013 | Reply


    I believe we do have a team that can compete for a super bowl next season. Call me a homer or say i’m overly optimistic but I’ve watched every game we’ve played this year and we have a defense that is championship level. Before Georgiebird posts about how our d isn’t that good, I’m not saying our defense is elite, but they are a strong unit and are ready to win. Carson can still win in this league and when he has a pocket, we can effectively run the ball and not play from behind where he doesn’t have to force things you’ll see him look more like an elite QB….again I’m not saying he’s elite, but with those situations he will look better. Yes, every QB in the league would look better in those situations, but Carson will look more elite while Kolb may look solid. I just don’t understand why fans can’t understand that our oline has been our issue, we have a top 10 pick LG coming back, we have Bobbie Massie who is a young talented RT (who I still think should’ve been starting all season), we still have Sendeline who is solid at C and we have Watford who can hopefully make strides next season. LT is where it gets difficult and I want us to get it handled in the draft, I’m not a GM or cap guy but if they can figure out how to sign a LT in FA than so be it.

    As far as the cap, I was just refuting your post that we were in dire straights salary wise next season, actually I was mildly surprised with our situation. I read that Barnwell article and the Cowboys are starting 30 million over the cap next season…that is NO WHERE NEAR close to our situation as I showed you we are under next season. And the carry over isn’t a shell game…it’s our money that we are allowed to use, we used carry over money this season. You have to re-visit the salary cap every off season and re-evaluate all of the players on your roster. It’s hard for us to get too deep into 2015 without knowing who we sign this offseason or how players perform during the season, but I’ve already looked at 2015 and I can clear up 30 million in 4 cuts (Fitz is one of them so that could change I’m just saying that looking at it right now it’s possible) so it’s not like we are in a bad place financially.

    I agree that you want to build for the long term, but then I don’t understand why you blasted me for releasing two aging veterans who are making monster contracts in order to play younger players. You’re kind of sending mixed messages on that front. I like your passion and it was your post about our financial problems that made me look it up for myself, using the website you cited (and let me thank you for helping me pass the time at work! that website was really informative) but, I think you tried to use the information to make the same point Barnwell made in his article. Instead of looking at all the numbers and figuring out what our cap would be you looked at the increase in salary and stated that all things staying the same we’d be over the cap, but things aren’t the same.

  69. By HunterSThompson on Oct 29, 2013 | Reply

    JasonC –

    To begin with, I agree about the potential for this team to be good/better than they have shown, but until they definitively look better than the Seahawks and 49ers during a game I cannot buy that a Superbowl run is possible. After all, to even get into the playoffs any time soon they will have to beat at least one of those teams out record-wise…or absolutely dominate the rest of their schedule to grab the last remaining wildcard spot. The wildcard spot is hardly a place to launch a Superbowl run. We can continue to hope that the young guys will be better “next season”, but Fitz is not getting any younger, and it is his outsized salary that started this whole debate days ago.

    Your posts regarding the cap are accurate from the perspective of using correct numbers, but what I was trying to do is go behind the numbers to see if things are as “fine” as they appear on the surface. Forget for a minute the specifics – does it make logical sense to you that all of the very real cap hit increases I pointed out for guys who will almost all still be on the roster next season somehow NOT result in an increase in overall salary/cap commitments for the Cardinals? It’s just not possible if you assume that the rest of the annual roster churn costs about the same. That’s when you need to look deeper at the specifics…

    I was wondering where you and I differed on conclusion using the same resources, and here is what I found. In your earlier post you assumed using 11 million to re-sign our free agents. The total $ the Cardinals have in cap hit for free agents this season is 22 million. Not one salary is crazy outrageous, which suggests that the Cardinals will have to pay that same amount next season to either re-sign those guys or find new ones of equal talent/output. That is what I was referring to in assuming that “all other things remain the same”. Because again, we are discussing how the Cardinals get better. It stands to reason that unless they have tragically bad salaries this season they will have to spend the same on the rest of the roster to get at least the same production. 11 million is a big difference, and I’m not sure why you are assuming the lower end of that spectrum.

    I took into account the dead money difference, and you are right that as of now 2015 is clean. Unfortunately I find it impossible to believe that the Cardinals allow Patrick Peterson to start the 2015 season as an unrestricted free agent, which means they are likely to sign him to a new deal after this season (similar to what Barnwell was discussing with Romo and Bryant). How much do you think PP is worth per season? What might be that signing bonus? I think that if they sign him after this season his new cap hit is immediate (2014) and not simply tacked on starting in 2015. If so, how does our cap number look now?

    An article posted on Spotrac 2 days ago says that if the Cardinals trade Fitz after June 1, 2014 they will save an immediate 13 million in cap space for 2014 AND 2015….and will also result in a very favorable contract for his new team to renegotiate with little dead money. That savings right there, combined with the draft picks we would likely get back, could reboot the Cardinals for the next 5 years as they build around the new wave of talent (including a new, young QB).

    Is it really worth keeping Fitz?

  70. By jasonc on Oct 29, 2013 | Reply


    That $22 million figure is for all 21 of our impending FA’s. I said that we only re-sign 8 players for $11 million lets say:

    Dansby $3.5, Arenas $1.0, Feely $1.5, Zastudil $1.5, Dray $750, Ta’Amu $750, Talley $500, Shaughnessy $1.5

    That is $11 million and everyone got a raise. Now you’re going to say 21-8=13, you’re missing players. But, you have to account that we have 7 guys coming off of IR and the PUP list who are already under contract so their money has already been counted. Then you have 6 draft picks which we alloted the $5 million number for so that money is already counted. So 13-12=1. My numbers are correct. You’re not adjusting your numbers for guys on IR/PUP, so you’re adding more contracts in your 2014 number than you need to have and our rookie contracts will be more economical than signing veteran free agents. The $2,190,000 number is wrong because apparently practice squad counts against the cap so the adjusted number is $1.374 million. This is all with doing the extremely basic moves I mentioned, I’m sure an expert is going to be able to find even more money.

    PP-Here is the thing, he is under contract next season already, I don’t have to have a new contract for him next season, nor do I have to let him hit FA. We could negotiate his contract next year and the first year of his contract will be in 2015. Another thing to remember is that he is already $6 million against the cap so you have to subtract that from what ever his new number will be for example: his new contract cap number is $13 million, well we already weren’t counting that $6 million number so the difference is $7 million, we don’t have to clear $13 just $7.

    I’m not saying any of this is going to happen, I’m just saying we aren’t in a bad spot. Like I said this is all without restructuring Larry Fitzgerald, which I’m sure is something they’re going to talk about. I think 2014 is easier to swallow with only $5 million in savings than 2015 when his cap number is $21.4 with only $8 million of dead money, that is a lot of money with a HUGE monetary advantage to the Cards.

    I wish you’d stop trying to fit us into the Cowboys mess. Read that article again and you’ll see that they made numerous lucrative deals with players that they cut a year or two later. We have 4 guys with lucrative long term deals right now: Larry , Darnell, Campbell, Washington and Larry and Darnell’s deals turn to our favor next season meaning releasing/trading them next season adds money to our cap. Campbell and Washington are young talented guys who are in their prime…the EXACT type of players you give long term deals to. You can add PP to this list in 2015.

  71. By jasonc on Oct 29, 2013 | Reply

    Geez 7+6=12, maybe you should check my math. So that means we covered all of the FA’s I didn’t re-sign with players coming off the IR/PUP and the draft. We have 7 players coming off of IR and PUP:

    Jonathan Cooper, Sam Acho, Alex Okafor, Lorenzo Alexander, Laron Byrd, Javonne Lawson, Dan Giordano

    3 of those 7 were supposed to start for us this season.

    The FA’s I didn’t resign:

    Andre Roberts, Rashard Mendenhall, Eric Winston, Yerimiah Bell, Marcus Benard, Antoine Cason, Mike Gibson, Jeff King, Andrew Rich, Frostee Rucker, Alfonso Smith, Korry Sperry, Evertt Thompson.

    Any of these guys scream we don’t have better players on the roster already or we can’t replace them?

  72. By HunterSThompson on Oct 29, 2013 | Reply

    JasonC –

    Cardinals 2013 salary/cap commitments:
    Active contracts (53 players) = $93 mill
    IR/PUP contracts (9 players) = $8 mill.
    Dead Money = $18 mill.
    Cap #:119 mill TOTAL

    2014 salary/cap commitments:
    Active contracts (42 players) = $111.4 mill. this INCLUDES any/all IR/PUP players under contract
    Dead Money = $9.9 mill
    Cap #:122 mill, with a REQUIREMENT to sign at least 11 more players and hope that ZERO end up on IR, necessitating additional signings

    2014 NFL Salary Cap estimate = $123 mill. Adjusted for the Cardinals = $129.9 mill, ASSUMING the Cardinals do not cut Dockett (6 mill dead money), College (4.5 mill dead money), Carson Palmer (6 mill dead money).

    8 mill at best to sign 6 rookies and 5 free agents. Why would you assume that these 11 players would cost less that the 11 relatively key guys the Cardinals currently have entering free agency next year (22 mill).

    22 mill – 8 mill = Cards are potentially over the ADJUSTED cap by 14 mill. if they spend, on rookies and free agents, similarly to what they did this year…don’t cut ANYONE….and have ZERO IR/PUP players for the entire season.

    All above taken directly from 2013 and 2014 Cardinals cap hit summaries at the bottom of each page.

  73. By HunterSThompson on Oct 29, 2013 | Reply

    Oops! 130 mill – 123 mill = 7 million left for the Cardinals under the adjusted cap to sign 6 rookies and 5 free agents.

    Assuming Keim is a draft guru and all draft picks make the team, which 3 of these 8 free agents do you NOT sign? How much do you pay them?

    Dansby, Arenas, Feely, Zastudil, Dray, Ta’Amu, Talley, Shaughnessy

  74. By jasonc on Oct 29, 2013 | Reply


    Seriously, read all of the posts I’ve written, I explained the whole thing. I told you the cuts I would make: Dockett, Colledge, Brinkley & Williams which is an additional 8 million plus of cap money. So now we have 16 million to sign 8 free agents, listed above @ 11 million, and 6 rookies @ 5 million…that’s 16 million. The exact numbers are all above if you want to go look again. Now during the off season you only count the top 51 so that would free up another 800,000 roughly. Which leaves the 1 million and change I spoke about. I NEVER said we didn’t have to cut players. I said we didn’t have to adjust Fitz’s contract. Plus, I’ve said more than once that this is with those four simple cuts and that the Cards front office will most assuredly make more moves figured out by someone way more qualified with way more knowlegde and experience than I have. I’m not trying to be curt, but it’s annoying that I explained everything in detail and now you’re trying to tell me something that I already know.

  75. By jasonc on Oct 29, 2013 | Reply

    And the cardinals have 21 players entering FA with contracts that totaled 22 million last year…not 11. You are answering your own questions in your posts. The Cards have 21 FA’s in 2014, I proposed signing 8 of them.

  76. By jasonc on Oct 29, 2013 | Reply

    2014 Salary cap $123,000,000
    2013 Cap carry over $6,948,234
    2014 Adjusted salary cap $129,948,234
    2014 Contracts $111,357,730
    2014 Dead money $9,913,626
    2014 Cap space $8,676,878

    Darnell Dockett $8,750,000 – $6,000,000 = $2,750,000
    Daryn Colledge $7,275,000 – $4,550,000 = $2,725,000
    Jasper Brinkley $2,200,000 – $ 200,000 = $2,000,000
    Ryan Williams $1,593,274 – $ 535,442 = $1,057,832
    Savings $8,532,832

    So that is $17,209,710

    2014 Contracts players 42
    2014 Salary cuts 4
    2014 FA resignings 8
    2014 draft picks 7
    2014 Adjusted contract 53

    2014 Cap space $17,209,710
    2014 FA signings $11,000,000
    2014 Draft picks $ 5,000,000
    2014 Practice squad $ 816,000
    2014 Cap space adjusted $ 393,710

  77. By jasonc on Oct 29, 2013 | Reply

    Rookie contracts:

    1st pick Cooper $2,645,273
    2nd pick Minter $ 798,236
    3rd pick Mathieu $ 570,625
    4th pick Warford $513,716
    5th pick Taylor $455,125
    6th pick Ellington $430,966

    That’s $5,413,941 for 6 of our picks last year, assuming we don’t pick top 10 that number should be closer to $5,000,000…I didn’t just make this number up.

  78. By Scott H on Oct 29, 2013 | Reply

    HunterST –

    RE: On the playoffs

    Too bad the Cardinals aren’t in the NFC East right now…they would be a division winner there! Seems really…odd to even be contemplating playoff possibilities for the Cardinals right now. But a lot of things are breaking right for them right now, ya know? The demise of the Falcons and the injury to Cutler in Chicago are huge in thie picture right now. Behind the current division leaders, you have San Fran ( who you KNOW is in as a wild-card, IF they don’t end up winning the division ), then…well, you have the Cards, Panthers, and Lions – and the Cards have a win against both. Who knows? That could be huge, too. But it’s way to soon to get crazy over this.

    If the Giants win a few more, they come right back into the picture. The Panthers and Lions look surprisingly feisty. In that respect, the Cards, Lions, and Panthers are all the same team. They can look great one week, fall right off the edge the next. That kind of inconsistency is NOT what playoff teams are made of and that is the sobering bottom line.

    In the end, the Seahawks, Saints, and 49ers are gonna swallow anyone else who makes the playoffs in the NFC, barring any key injuries. Nevertheless…just being there is sure better than not being there.

  79. By ored on Oct 29, 2013 | Reply

    larry is a poor trade chip,old,declining production,bloated contract-what he is,face of the franchise,humble,good person,role model,still a top player but with all that advancing age brings,on the decline,1st thing that stands out is production last couple of years and age.but he’s still good enough to help a team,just not like 4-5 yrs ago,but the stickler is his huge contract,other players want to get paid also and the limit is soon reached.each year some rookie or young player given his chance breaks out and surpasses larrys today numbers…at a fraction of the cost.
    larry does’nt have the ball in his hands every down,and teams have already proved that by doubling,bracketing,and however they choose,they can deny him the ball.

    joe montana was also the face of a franchise,but at some point,everybody has to accept that there is still the business side,most players know and accept it…overheard so many times that they know it;s a business and nothing personal.
    you can’t not understand that all the sacrifices and injuries they endure and the brevity of carreers that they are’nt leaving money on the table,so we have a dilemma,can no longer do both and field your best team,good luck keim,get your big boy britches on,your gonna need to hit it out of the park on draft day and wring every dollar from any free agents.

  80. By HunterSThompson on Oct 30, 2013 | Reply

    Well – I am starting to confuse myself, and in the interest of time I jumped ahead on some assumptions. Let’s back up and keep things on solid ground.

    The Cardinals have 8 million under the adjusted 2014 salary cap to sign at least 11 players (6 rookies, 5 free agents).

    2013 Cardinals top 6 rookies cost 5.4 mill to sign. That leaves 2.6 mill to fill out roster with 5 free agents. Again, this amount assumes the Cardinals cut NOBODY (creating additional dead money) and that ZERO players end up on IR/PUP necessitating additional free agent signings.

    2014 Cardinals free agents with 2013 cap hit:
    Arenas – $645K
    Bell – $620K
    Benard – $481K
    Cason – $1.5 mill
    Dansby – $2.5 mill
    Dray – $642K
    Feely – $1.75 mill
    Roberts – $1.5 mill
    Rucker – $620 K
    Shaughnessy – $1 mill
    Ta’amu – $480K
    Talley – $555K
    Zastudil – $1.475 mill

    Which 5 of these guys are most vital to the Cardinals? I’ll take a shot:
    Zastudil – $1.5 mill
    Feely – $1.75 mill
    Ta’amu – $0.5 mill
    Shaughnessy – $1 mill
    Arenas – $0.6 mill

    Just these guys, at 2013 contracts (no raises or competition from other teams) cost the Cardinals $5.35 mill…2.75 million OVER the adjusted 2014 salary cap. This amount is about the absolute MINIMUM of cap overage, again assuming that the Cardinals do not cut anybody and have zero players hit IR/PUP.

    Now, it is obvious that the Cardinals are not in the Cowboy cap hell the initial article discussed, but that was never my assertion. What the article did for me was evaluate the Cardinals signings and contracts in the face of being 3 or 4th place in the NFC West, and what it might take to get better (additional salary/draft picks). Based on the above I feel that the Cardinals are in trouble as far as being able to improve through free agency, and unless they get some serious cap relief will actually be taking a step back if we lose Dansby, Zastudil, Feely, Dray, etc.

    A final thing about using up the adjusted cap carryover space. If the NFL salary cap stays at around $123 mill for the next couple years, after next season the Cardinals will automatically be 7 million over (no carry over available), with a contract of PP coming on the books at minimum, and an additional 3 million of Larry cap hit. Yes, they lose the 10 mill dead money, but that is optimistic and again assumes we cut NONE of the guys I mentioned earlier.

    Now, Carson Palmer’s 10 mill will be gone, but there is too many other variables to see realistic cap relief without a serious restructuring of deals. As I said before, pushing salary cap problems ahead of you is no way to eventually get competitive….which the Cardinals need to do.

    I just do not see how this situation allows for that. IMO the Cardinals should trade Larry after the season – for 13 mill in cap relief at least…and maybe a pick or two to help increase the talent level on this team for the future.

  81. By HunterSThompson on Oct 30, 2013 | Reply

    JasonC –

    We are talking the same numbers, did not mean to offend. The details lie in the level of optimism vs present reality. Your numbers look great…as long as we don’t need to sign anyone else to fill in for IR players., and we can replace the production of Dockett and College for less money.

    The reality is that the Cardinals needed to sign 21 free agents last season (for a variety of reasons) to fill out their roster, which cost 22 million. I would offer that this is pretty typical for a team with a bunch of draft busts, and it is reasonable to expect similar needs next season. You have them only needing 8 free agents this year, for a MAX cost of 11 million…and ZERO room in the budget if things go wrong. Is that prudent, or realistic?

    We obviously have plenty of time to evaluate the roster spots, free agents, etc. so I’ll leave that for another time. Thanks for the discussion.

  82. By jasonc on Oct 30, 2013 | Reply


    Again, I’m simply showing you 4 simple moves that would allow the Cardinals to be under the salary cap without altering Larry’s contract. Don’t you think that the guys who get paid to do this are going to be able to figure out a plan? I never said we wouldn’t have to cut anyone, I never said we wouldn’t re-work Larry’s contract. You wrote a post saying we were in trouble financially and I refuted it. As far as “optimism vs present reality” teams cut players EVERY year! Us not cutting players whose contracts outweigh the players worth because we don’t want dead money shows a level of naivety in your thinking.

  83. By HunterSThompson on Oct 30, 2013 | Reply

    JasonC –

    The biggest contract on the Cardinals vs. present worth IS Larry. Keeping him at all costs instead of moving on and basing your argument on that premise IS the definition of naïve thinking.

  84. By jasonc on Oct 30, 2013 | Reply


    I didn’t say we should or shouldn’t keep Larry, Keim did. I’m refuted your claim about our salary cap situation and whole heartedly proved you wrong. I didn’t go deep into it, I made a few moves and showed you that it is easily attainable.

  85. By HunterSThompson on Oct 30, 2013 | Reply

    Jason –

    “Easily attainable”….if no one gets hurt, we somehow ignore 2015 automatic 7 mill cap hang, don’t have a strong desire to re-sign PP, find a starting LT and a future QB in the same draft (so we can do it on the cheap) and are content to tread water in the NFC west in hopes we outdraft and outcoach teams that are doing it better than us already…and have more draft picks than us to continue to do so.

    “whole heartedly”???? ha!

  86. By jasonc on Oct 30, 2013 | Reply


    It’s not my fault if you don’t understand what you’re looking at. I think you’re a smart guy and if we could sit down I know I could show you, but you’re intent that I’m wrong so what’s the point. You can believe what you want, we’re a terrible team, we can’t compete, we have a horrible cap situation that we can only overcome by trading Larry, it’s cool with me.

  87. By Scott H on Oct 30, 2013 | Reply

    jasonc & HST –

    Just wondering…do you guys work???

  88. By jasonc on Oct 31, 2013 | Reply

    independently wealthy

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