Sorting out keepers on the O-line

Posted by Darren Urban on August 5, 2014 – 12:50 pm

Bruce Arians was short and sweet during his press conference today, which means the news is little and the grind of camp has officially set in. Until games begin to be played, players can start proving themselves on the field against another time and, you know — stuff happens — I’d imagine there won’t be a torrent of news. One thing from today is that guard Jonathan Cooper, tight end Jake Ballard and tackle Nate Potter are all taking the practice off because of sore knees, but all three are expected to practice against Wednesday.

That’ll give Earl Watford a chance to work with the ones all through practice today. He said he’s getting better in cutting down the mental mistakes. How that offensive line filters out will be one of the more intriguing parts of the camp and preseason. Arians usually dressed seven on game days. After the starters, that would mean a swing tackle (Starks?) and a G/C combo (Larsen, probably). So if Cooper starts, does that mean Watford is inactive again? Where does Potter stand, or Bradley Sowell (the latter of whom is probably in trouble roster-wise if Starks proves usable.)

Some of it will have to do with youth and keeping players around if you feel they can develop, as well as the numbers across the rest of the roster. But now that Starks is here, someone is going to be the odd man out. And there could be a couple that end up odd.

— WR John Brown, who has missed three practices with a bad hamstring, will be back out at practice.

— Arians is very happy with the way rookie safety Deone Bucannon is playing at dollar linebacker, which is his spot in the nickel defense.

— There is still a chance the Cardinals could keep five running backs on the roster, depending on special teams. That would seem to open a possible spot for Jalen Parmele. The first four of Andre Ellington, Stepfan Taylor, Jonathan Dwyer and Robert Hughes looks more and more solid.


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53 Responses to “Sorting out keepers on the O-line”

  1. By LadyBird04 on Aug 5, 2014 | Reply

    I’m glad to hear Brown is back at practice today. Hope he doesn’t have a nagging hamstring like Larry Fitz had last year.

    PS – When does the Big Red Rage return and will you be posting it on this website again this year? Thanks for all your great articles and videos.

  2. By Darren Urban on Aug 5, 2014 | Reply

    LadyBird —

    RE: BRR

    First show was last night. It should be posted later this afternoon.

  3. By kenny on Aug 5, 2014 | Reply

    hey everybody I have 1 major problem with coach ba I feel he is a excellent coach and I believe was a great choice by managment to grab him over all the other available however I feel he is a very poor gambler and would never walk in a casino with him I feel for am example to grab logan Thomas in the 4th round was in all probability the worst mistake in the draft as there was probably 50 ball players easily that that would have made more sense he in all likelihood could have got him as a walk on and in truth there was at least 50 ball players available that would have been a better choice I don’t get it he lets hoyer walk and seemed to have no faith in slayton when he in all probability could have at least gave us a shot at pulling out 1 extra game last year when it was apparent palmer was not going to make it happen meaning when he was struggling badly point in case I honestly feel he was best coach available for our team as head coach I also believe his draft choices have much to be desired the guy cant draft whatsoever.ah its easy to criticize I just firmly believe the drafting should be handled by the excellent coaching staff that has been put together and ba should take 1 day off a year guys we need a real quarterback to take the next step I honestly feel it must be addressed this upcoming year get osweiler from Denver could be the next great one to come along or look to this years draft class its a must this is the last year we can use palmer got to take the next step trust me as always your friend ken

  4. By br in nc on Aug 5, 2014 | Reply

    Grabbing Thomas was a must into the 4th round, he would not have been there in the 5th. Logan Thomas was a top 10 QB all the so called experts had him top 10, some as high as #4, as well he was shooting up the draft boards before the draft, no chance he even made it out of the latter part of round #4. I started harping on this board way back in January that Thomas was going to be someones QB of the future and a steal for any team that drafed him, so yes I will admit bias here, but I have followed Logan since his Freshman year, he has all the tools, and is an absolute “athfreak”! IMHO he is the Cardinals QB of the future, and will surprise and impress many non believers! My question to you, how can you say it was the worst pick and a wasted pick when the kid has not even taken a snap in a preseason game let alone a game that counts? You also have to remember, he has at least 1 year to sit and learn, develop behind Palmer, and with Palmer mentoring him, as well as one of the top coaching staffs coaching him up, his future is very very promising, I look for his name to be in the Cardinals record books in many offensive categories in 12-15 years from now. And if all else fails, he can be used as a super weapon on offense, especially as a red zone weapon! But please, give him a little more time than 2 weeks of training camp before you tag him worst pick ever.

  5. By D on Aug 5, 2014 | Reply

    My guess for 2014 O line would be:

    Veldheer, Cooper, Sendlein, Watford, Massie
    With Larsen, Starks and Steen as backups, Steen probably be inactive most of the year if he is healty at end of training camp)

    I am not a fan of Potter, Sowell or Faniaka. They can draft a 4 or 5th round Off Tackle next spring that can be the swing backup player next year.

  6. By br in nc on Aug 5, 2014 | Reply

    WOw Not a fan of Sowell or Faniaka, they both came in to difficult situations and both played outside their minds, both had impressive seasons, granted Sowell was thrown to the wolves (and being thrown in at LT is being thrown in to some huge wolves!) I just can’t see either of them being cut, Sowell can play either tackle, and Fanaika was and right now still is our best Guard on the team. I am a little confused right now(of course some people say I live in a state of confusion!!) I did not realize the Cardinals only had 7 active Olineman on Sundays, and only 8 on the roster, thought it was at least 9-10, IMHO we don’t need 5 RB’s, but I think we use that extra spot for an Olineman, if we cut either BS or PF or NP for that matter, all of them will be snatched up very quickly, with Starks getting up there in age (and he wasn’t exactly very impressive in SD last year) unless he makes the coaching staffs eyes pop out of their heads, I just cant see them keeping him for 1 year at the most, when Sowell or Potter are younger and both play RT or LT, I may be mistaken but Starks is strictly a RT, isn’t he?
    Sorry D, I usually agree with your posts, most are spot on in my opinion, but have to respectfully disagree with you on this one buddy.

  7. By John The Draft Guy on Aug 5, 2014 | Reply


    On the nickle package, usually that is 5 DBs (hence nickle)

    But are they playing a nickle or a modified dime ? with Bucannon playing the dollar LB spot, Is there 5 DB’s or 6 (including Bucannon) ?

    I would imagine the NT comes off and we have a 4 man line, Powers comes on the field in the slot, as Bucannon comes on for Minter. Is that correct? Also, is Foote on the field for the Nickle? I know DWash would be but Foote is no DWash.

    Just curious.
    I’m thinking in 3rd and 8 type situations, I would like both Jefferson and Bucannon to play the two inside LBs with Rashad and HB as the safeties Powers in the slot with of course peterson and cromartie outside. and then a 4 man rush with Acho, Abraham, Dockett and Campbell.

    Lots of possibilities Mr Bowles has. The one knock on Bucannon I had was he isn’t going to be able to run with TEs down the field and that he was good around the line of scrimmage. Smart moving him up to LB on passing downs and not putting him in situations that exposes his weaknesses. Very smart of Bowles. Using him this way is how I always thought they should have used ADub. I bet he gets a half dozen sacks this year on blitzes.

  8. By Darren Urban on Aug 5, 2014 | Reply

    JTDG —

    RE: Nickel/Bucannon

    They call it a nickel and say Bucannon is an LB.


    Right now, yes, Foote is on the field.

  9. By John The Draft Guy on Aug 5, 2014 | Reply


    I agree and disagree with you.

    I agree with you regarding Logan Thomas. I have been pretty clear I am not a fan.

    I disagree about Stanton. BA knows he is a solid backup and he has faith in that.
    Pulling Palmer is always a huge mistake and sends a wrong message to the team. Never pull your starting QB unless you are done with him. (or up or down by a lot)

    As for the draft, I wouldn’t say he drafts poorly but I do not always agree with his picks. Last year, in round 1 and 2, I wanted 4 guys. Kenny Vaccaro, Terron Armstead, Watson, and Jamie Collins. Watson and Armstead are starting LTs, Vacarro was an outstanding SS and Collins is looking like a stud LB for New England. What were we weak at last year? LT and SS, and this year we need LBs. Instead we landed cooper who missed last year and is struggling this year and Minter, who is a two down LB. So I have not been ready to crown Keim either.

    As for Osweiler, he is in Denver and not going anywhere. With an aging QB who had neck surgery two years ago, I think Denver will hold on to him if he is any good.

    Drafting a QB. Yes. I would look first round next year. Mannion, Mariota, Hundley, and Winston are guys we should keep our eyes on. I’m sure a couple others will pop up.Our only issue is that it will be tough to get one of these guys with the 32nd pick.

  10. By br in nc on Aug 5, 2014 | Reply

    Ok JTDG,
    As you are well aware I’am a Logan Thomas for QB fan (probably the #1fan!!
    But if your talking drafting QB’s in 2015, I may as well start harping early! Going to throw a name on you that probably wont be around at #32 either, but he has a better chance at being there than the others you mentioned, IMHO he is a better QB than some you mentioned, but please take the time to watch this Guy this season, or watch some film on him from the last couple of years….
    SHANE CARDON/ECU (East Carolina) and before everyone chuckles ECU has produced quite a few NFL QB’s of recent memory, and Shane is breaking all the records at ECU that these guys set!
    Real quick off the top of my head (may not be 100% number for number on these stats, but real danger close.)
    Passed for over 4000 yards as a junior last year (ECU record!)
    1 of only 2 QB’s in ECU history to pass for over 3000 yards in back to back seasons
    In the redzone his conversion rate is 89 or 90%
    Top returning QBin the conference
    Can scramble and run pretty good, plus he is very strong, remember reading an article talking about him bench pressing something like 350-360 pounds
    As a Sophomore he was CUSA MVP (Player of the year, however they list it.
    As a Sophomore he finished in the top 20 (a lot of categories he was top 10!) Nationwide among all QB’s.

    SI All-American Honorable Mention
    Returning as the top completion % QB in the nation, at over 70%, and he has been up there his whole career with completion %, as well as pass attempts, and scoring. He is 6-2/220 so yes, he is shorter than BA likes them, but not like he is 5-11 or anything like that!
    Please give him a looksie, think you will be quite impressed, I have been watching him for 2 years and this will be the third year, but it doesn’t look like I will get to go to any of the home games, (I usually go to every home game since ECU is only 45min from my door, and the have awesome military discounts!) But with my 6th deployment to the lovely poopstain of a country coming up real fast, doesn’t look very good for me to make any homegames, but I do have my son-in-law set up to burn the games on DVD and mail them to me in case I can locate a DVD player over there, you can bet I will watch as much as I can!!!

  11. By C on Aug 5, 2014 | Reply

    Darren, wouldn’t Starks (essentially, to start) play the role of the overload tackle? That’s where Sowell did relatively well last year. I also wouldn’t mind seeing Massie fill that role, as he’s a complete road grader when run blocking.

    If there is a kickstarter or crowd sourced funding to buy Kenny (above) some commas, periods or other assorted punctuation, can you post that link? 😉

    Thanks for the information, as always!


  12. By Darren Urban on Aug 5, 2014 | Reply

    C —

    RE: Starks

    I don’t see Starks starting at this point.

  13. By Dr. G. on Aug 5, 2014 | Reply

    I am thrilled to an indescribable degree that the conversation goes to something other than the LT position. The Cards have had patchwork there for a long time. Veldheer is the solution to a nagging ten-year LT sciatica problem. This is the best acquisition this year. I know, I keep repeating this…but it cost us a couple games last year. No player in the past …say 8 years… steps up and says, “I’m the MAN, and I won’t let you down ((literally)) to the QB….. This is big….and literally!….

  14. By br in nc on Aug 5, 2014 | Reply

    Dr G or Darren, How is Veldheer doing in camp, haven’t heard a peep on his performance? (Which I guess is a good thing, the. Old “No news is good news” statement)
    Also, this “Dollar Linebacker” scheme, is that something new they put in for the rookie Buchanon (sp) or have the Cardinals already had it in the past, and I just never heard it use?? Is that just a fancy term or will he actually be playing as a linebacker some? Because I remember posting after the draft that he had played some linebacker and and the Cards may be considering it due to our depletion of starting ILB’s, and I almost got laughed off the board, I wasn’t feeling much love after that post, I was so discouraged with all the thumbs down, that I thought I was Cactus Jeff!! (Sorry, this is my feeble attempt at humor!!! The question is legit, but the remarks afterwards are for humor only, or my weak attempt to get a laugh out of you guys! Honestly I could care less how many thumbs up, Down, or sideways I get, I will continue to ramble, and spew my opinions, the only way any “thumbs” hurt me is if someone jabs me in the eye with it, and then were gonna fight!!! LOL!!

  15. By Darren on Aug 5, 2014 | Reply

    Kenny, please use some sentence structure. Punctuation is not scary; it is your friend.

  16. By NJAzCardsFan on Aug 5, 2014 | Reply

    Darren- With Logan Thomas not ready to be the starting QB next year, do see the Cards renewing Palmer’s contract before it expires at the end of the season- say for another 2 yrs. I have a feeling Palmer is going to have his best year ever this year… Wouldn’t it be a good idea to lock him up now, before it costs them more later?

  17. By Darren Urban on Aug 5, 2014 | Reply

    NJAz —

    RE: Palmer

    Do I think he could be re-upped? Yes. But I think the Cards will take it slow. I’m not sure of the market for Palmer anyway, even if he plays well.

  18. By br in nc on Aug 5, 2014 | Reply

    Even if he has another 4000 plus yards, and continues to cut down on his interceptions?? Or if he leads us deep into the playoffs or to the Super Bowl??
    I would think is he duplicates last season (with less int’s) and we make the playoffs, he is going to be a hot commodity (look at what it did for Dansby) willing to bet some team throws 15-17 million at him, maybe for only 1 season, or 2 at the most, but someone will.

  19. By CreditCard on Aug 5, 2014 | Reply

    Can’t keep 5 tight ends, 5 running backs, and 8 O-lineman. Somebody has to go. It is a long preseason. Things will get naturally sorted out.

    This team is better, just seeing difficult and highly competitive position battles.

  20. By br in nc on Aug 5, 2014 | Reply


    I’m with you on that, I humbly submit – 4TE – 4RB – 9-10 OL
    If Hughes wasn’t signed or wasn’t catching BA’s eye I would submit that the Cardinals would have at least pondered the idea of 3 RB’s on roster (probably 2 on practice squad though)
    I think only 8 OL is tempting fate, especially with the injury bug looming at the first of the year.

  21. By John The Draft Guy on Aug 5, 2014 | Reply

    Darren and NJAz,

    Palmer is signed for 2015. He is on the books for 12 million with 2 million in dead money.

    NJAZ is the third person who thinks Palmer is done after this year. Am I missing something?

  22. By Darren Urban on Aug 6, 2014 | Reply

    JTDG —

    RE: Palmer

    Palmer’s 2015 year will void if he is on the roster right around the time free agency starts.

    He is essentially going into his walk year.

  23. By John The Draft Guy on Aug 5, 2014 | Reply

    Just saw your article for Martin finding his roll on the nickle package rushing the passer.
    So, is Dockett out, or is Martin on the outside for Shaughnessy?

    I guess I was expecting Acho and Abraham to be the two outside pass rushers.

  24. By Darren Urban on Aug 6, 2014 | Reply

    JTDG —

    RE: Nickel

    I would expect it to be CC and Dockett inside, Martin/Abraham outside.

  25. By br in nc on Aug 5, 2014 | Reply

    All Cardinal fans/posters,
    I want to drop a quick apology for my numerous posts, and depot’s, and my tendency to ramble on and on here of late. I tend to do this when the stress level and apprehension level start to rise, I get very talkative and typative (probably not even a damn word!). As some of you know, I was returned to active duty recently and informed that the Marine Corps was rewarding me with another all expenses paid trip (this will make #6) to a not so friendly or welcoming country (sorry I can’t give a whole lot of details, but most if not all of you can probably figure out my destination. I can tell you this (which should pretty much make it real clear where my little “vacation” is going to be spent, I retired out of the Marine Corps a few years back, I worked as a Combat Search and Rescue Special Operator for a few years then moving up (if you want to call it that!) to a Team leader and then Joint Special Operations Senior Team leader as well as Planner and Instructor, blah, blah, blah, and all that good stuff, being a very small hush hush community there isn’t a whole lot of us left, so it is not uncommon to think you have finally hung up your tools of the trade for good only to get a surprise “punch in the mouth” welcome back we need you for just one more (of course they have there fingers crossed behind their backs, LOL) but back on topic, talking football, especially my beloved Cardinals, and ILLINI, takes my mind off of “things” brings my heartrate back to within manageable levels, fuss what I’m trying to say, it helps me cope with “pre-game jitters”, no I’am not afraid to admit to “pre-game jitters”, or even fear, it is by no means a “walk in the park” over there, this will be #6, I have been fairly lucky still have all my arms legs fingers and toes (only managed 2 “scars”, yea will call them that.) and I damn sure going to do my best to make sure I keep them this time as well, on top of that, I have to ensure I bring all the kids back as well (guess I can’t call them kids, they have done and seen more than most 19-20 year old kids! So I will go with young Marines in place of kids!) I can’t say Our teams have a 100% return rate, sorry and sad to say I/we are 3 short of 100%, but in my book that is 3 to many!! Anyway here I go flapping my jaws and rambling way off topic again!! Trying to say boards like these, especially this board in particular, is one of my coping mechanisms and I just ask that you bear with me (or just ignore my ramblings!! LOL) it wont be torture for you guys much longer, soon, very soon, I wont have access to post my ramblings! So I apologize for the excessive posts/depot’s in advance, and I truly want to say THANK YOU for allowing me to express my opinions on here as a lifelong Cardinals fanatic!!! GO CARDINALS!! (all the way to home field in the Super Bowl, It wont bother me on bit to have to watch it a month later on DVD in some God forsaken poop hole in the middle on nowhere!! There would NOT be a happier Cardinal fan anywhere, if that ends up being the case!)
    I will shutup now, again Thank You for your patience!!

  26. By br in nc on Aug 5, 2014 | Reply

    One damn thing I will NOT apologize for is this God blessed auto correct!!!
    Depots is supposed to be. ***REPLY’S***
    Sometimes I just have to laugh at this phone, it thinks it smarter than it is, how the hell does it get depots out of reply’s? ??? Too f&%$#$& funny!!!

  27. By hminus on Aug 6, 2014 | Reply

    Think Sowell should be the odd man out in this competition,Starks should stay,Sowell should go…Potter is praised by coaches for being smart & reliable,[just needs more bulk,]…want him to stay & be the reliable support player in this group.

  28. By hminus on Aug 6, 2014 | Reply

    It’s unreasonable to expect a lot from Thomas right now,he’s going to need some time to develope properly & hope BA & co. play it that way…his smarts,[heard he had a high wonderlic score,]upside & potential are MUCH higher than RL’S… in 2-3 years he could really be something… it’s worth the wait…give him time!

  29. By kenny on Aug 6, 2014 | Reply

    30 thumbs down and not 1 thumbs up I guess that says it all its like showing up for a cards game and while sitting in the stadium on that given day you have 75 percent of the ticket holders rooting for the other team largely because most people in Arizona root for the team from where they came from meaning other parts of the country sorry for offending you guys but in truth everybody for the most part in Arizona ran away from where they were living because they were just flat out fleeing from something old saying grass is always greener on the other side until you get there in closing you guys remember T DAVIS running back from Denver and all the pros that were picked from the 4th round and after sorry guys LOGAN could not hit the side of the largest house in Arizona and if they keep him its just to save face oh remember B SWOPE that was a great choice as well just remember its easy to tell the truth any questions ? now you can really give the thumbs down this is business not dress up 40 year cards fan p.s. all thank you for mentioning my grammar issues to me not important getting the point across is all that matters appreciate it much Darren thank you last p.s 4 year ride to ohio state and it was not for my grammar

  30. By br in nc on Aug 6, 2014 | Reply

    Ohio State, well that explains the grammar!! Football and basketball factory, who cares if a kid can read and right, and who cares after his eligibility is up, that athlete is no good to Ohio St anymore, so lets just throw him on society’s back, and let honest productive taxpayers support him!
    As far as Logan Thomas, I probably harped the most on this board about his sleeper status, and hoped that the Cards would take a flier on him in one of the later rounds, but after the combine and VA Tech pro days he started creeping up the draft boards, (he was always a top 10 QB on all the experts board), but then after some private workouts Logan started rising up the board like he was fired from a cannon, so obviously he impressed quite a few teams and coaches, in the end Cards had no choice but to take him in the 4th round, otherwise he would be wearing some other teams Jersey!!! I don’t get your argument on Thomas, he hasn’t even taken a snap as a pro QB yet, he will either make it or he wont, just as any other player drafted in the 4th round, they either make it or they don’t! IMHO he is going to be the Cardinals starting QB, and a damned good one at that! (And you can take that to the bank, because as the world knows I have never been wrong when it comes to Cards QB’s!! LOL! I do have a pretty good track record, lets see….hhmmm, oh I predicted Max Hall’s failure. I stated on a Cardinals board that K. Warner was going to come in and surprise people in Arizona, though I was a little off on just how BIG of a surprise he was bringing!!! And I was spot on for Leinart, knew from the second we drafted him he was going to flop, being surrounded by first round picks at USC made him look a lot better than he was, and of course he was doomed from the start, his hair was way way to perfect!!! LOL!)

  31. By br in nc on Aug 6, 2014 | Reply

    Sorry to burst your bubble sir, but the Marine Corps ordered me to live in Arizona! I was a St Louis Cardinal fan that out of loyalty remained a fan when they moved to AZ. And one last question…Where do you find grass at all in Arizona, let alone GREEN grass??? I was stationed in Yuma, and for the life or me I just can’t recall seeing any grass, let alone Green Grass.

  32. By Dynosoar on Aug 6, 2014 | Reply


    32nd pick – I like the way you think!


    Kickstarter, sorry Kenny, but the crowdsourcing comment was downright funny. C, I give you 100 points for that one.

    What I love is the position battles, we appear to have the difficulty of cutting potential starters because we’re limited to a 53 man squad. I don’t know if this is the case, but it appears to be. I remember when we were starting players other teams would consider backups, now we appear to be cutting players other teams would consider starters.

    I hope I’m right, a nice pleasant position to be in.

  33. By John The Draft Guy on Aug 6, 2014 | Reply



    That is a strange contract. Who does it benefit? If he is on the team, the contract voids, if he is cut, the contract (with 2 million in dead money stands)

    I don’t get it. Either way he is off the team and needs a new contract. I am really lost on how his 2015 year makes any sense.

  34. By Darren Urban on Aug 6, 2014 | Reply

    JTDG —

    RE: Palmer deal

    Helped with cap hit. Was always intended as two-year deal to be extended (or not).

  35. By John The Draft Guy on Aug 6, 2014 | Reply

    br in nc,

    I will keep my eye on Cardon. Last year at this time, I wasn’t knowledgeable about Bortles and he became my favorite QB in the draft.

    Also, thanks for your service and yes, you do ramble on and on. 🙂

  36. By br in nc on Aug 6, 2014 | Reply

    I first saw Bortles ironically when I was following Carson, they were in the same conference, I had watched Carson for a few games and was salivating at the thought of ECU having a solid season, after all they had a stout defense, and a very good WR corps and the best QB in the conference, who was only a Sophomore, the future looked quite bright, then ECU played UCF, and I quickly realized after seeing Bottles play that ECU had the 2nd best QB, and honestly as good as Shane was, it wasn’t even close, he was a distant second!!!

    And ECU is a solid program they have put quite a few players in the NFL
    Contact Leach (pro bowl)
    Guy Wimped (

  37. By br in nc on Aug 6, 2014 | Reply

    Hit the danger post button on accident
    NFL from ECU
    Guy Wimper (actually played football for the little town I live in now)
    Dwayne Harris WR
    David Garrard QB
    Chris Johnson RB
    Dominique Davis QB
    Robert Jones LB

    Jeff Blake QB (so Carson wouldn’t be the first ECU Pirate. to quarterback the Cards. LOL Pro bowl)
    Earnest Byner RB
    CJ Wilson
    Rod Coleman

  38. By br in nc on Aug 6, 2014 | Reply

    I will learn one day soon to proofread behind the auto correct!
    *CARDON* not *CARSON*

  39. By br in nc on Aug 6, 2014 | Reply

    Me ramble, no, ya think!!!! LOL!
    In all seriousness, truly sorry, the stress and anxiety are on the rise rapidly, it really helps, at least in my feeble mind!
    Maybe I can see if Darren can restrict my postings to a certain amount of words, and only so many total posts a day, I here twitter can do it so Darren should be able to as well. LOL!

  40. By Dynosoar on Aug 6, 2014 | Reply


    as far as Thomas goes, I don’t know what to think. If and I mean IF we keep a third QB (and with Palmer’s durability we may not need one) should we keep Lindley or Thomas? I don’t know.

    Lindley had huge passing percentage greatness in college, but was thrown to the wolves not having a good O-Line to give him time to do what he does best.

    Logan Thomas, I hear he is a tremendous athlete and if he can learn to not make mental errors and get his accuracy down, which comes with practice (10,000 hours to be an Olympic champion and he began playing QB not too many years ago, he probably doesn’t have 10,000 hours yet).

    I don’t know how this draft class will be, still waiting to see how last draft class is with injuries and all. I didn’t give you a thumbs up either way, because I’m waiting to see pre-season games and performance there. Stay strong.

  41. By Fred Garvin on Aug 6, 2014 | Reply

    Br in NC,

    Many thanks for your service from a Vietnam Vet. You can write as much as you want. Those who don’t like you’re rambling can move on to the next post. You have more than earned the right to post on this site.

  42. By br in nc on Aug 6, 2014 | Reply

    It is you sir who we should be thanking, troop support is at an all time high (to the point where at times it is overplayed, I have seen units, and small detachments return from a 1 month vacation, er…deployment (if you dare call it that,, who were in Kuwait, and I’m not talking at the Iraqi border, talking Al Jabbir, south of Kuwait city, and they returned to bands playing spouses screaming, all out hero’s welcome like they had just spent a year in country conducting long range patrols or some crap! You heroes from Vietnam got nothing but grief and downright disgust when you returned (can’t even use the word “welcomed” home) stateside! So albeit about 45 years late, I say welcome home, and job well done! I have a saying that I use when I’m trying to boost morale within my team, but I think it fits every generation of warriors. Other than the true reason we fight, that being the man to your left and right, truth be told that is really the only reason!! But there are a couple more, I tell them we fight for, life, liberty, and the pursuit of the stupid bas$!#%s who try and take that away from us!! You and yours fought for the same reasons inVietnam unfortunately the average John Q. Citizen didn’t see it that way back in the 60’s & 70’s! We can however, try to make up for it now!

  43. By Fred Garvin on Aug 6, 2014 | Reply

    *your, not you’re

  44. By kenny on Aug 6, 2014 | Reply

    thanks my friend finally I have got a response from some one who does not choose to talk of proper grammar and e mail format and get in to what this should be all about football the word on lindley was he had like a lifetime percentage in the vicinity of a 53percent quarterback completion rating all through college and yeah wiz the genius threw him in to his 1st game when we were winning like 13 to 3 with john skelton no less in the 3rd quarter of I believe the panther game not sure all I know is we lost and yes he was thrown to the wolves I can not believe a guy as pro as ba would take logan in the 4th round when he could have got him as a walk on its just such poor decision making dam he took swope last year in the 6th round knowing he was damaged goods and would probably never have the capability of ever playing im sorry I just believe he makes some of the worst moves in the draft process only other than that I believe he is a keeper thanks my friend never got in to it with the kenny haters but I am a head football coach and college tailback and linebacker and yeah I am a has been but better than a never been like all the other guys sending hate mail again thank you

  45. By John The Draft Guy on Aug 6, 2014 | Reply

    br in nc ,

    I think what kenny is saying is he feels it was not wise to take a flyer in the 4th round on Thomas when the 4th round has produced a lot of good players.

    Then he lost me by mentioning T Davis of Denver,who was a 6th rounder.

    The way I look at it when drafting is this;
    If you believe in the guy, take him. If you dont believe in him, dont even bring him in as a free agent. What’s the point?
    Myself, I do not believe in Thomas, so I would have been against him being drafted in the 7th. You are a fan, and if the cards drafted him in the first, that would not of been bad, because he is going to be a great QB. The round should have nothing to do with it. The round only matters that you believed player X is higher rated when you pick, not oh I kind of like him and he might do good, let’s try him in a later round.

    BA and/or Keim believed in Thomas. In spite his issues, they saw someone that they can work with. If you feel that way, then I do not have an issue with them taking him period. It would be huge for the cards if he could come around in the next year or two.

    The problem kenny has is he doesn’t think Thomas is any good. So “wasting” a pick on a 4th round flop has him upset, and thinking there were better options.

    I think only time will tell who is right.

  46. By br in nc on Aug 6, 2014 | Reply

    Exactly, but again I say to Kenny he would NOT have been around to take a 5-7 round flier, he keeps saying sign him as a free agent, but you can’t sign someone as a free agent who has already been drafted by another team obviously! I originally posted around the New Year that the Cardinals should look at taking him rounds 5-7 (IMHO there was only 1 QB worthy of 1st round pick and that was Bottles, but I knew he was a top 10 pick at worst, and Cardinals would have no shot at him short on breaking the bank with multiple draft picks both this year and next to trade up) my point is, we had to take him and BA must have saw something along with many other teams because he was shooting up the draft boards prior to the draft. Also, I would not have been happy if they would have picked him in 1st round (if BA saw something that great and took him in round #1 then so be it, but we had bigger needs, and I never said he was a natural 1st rd talent, but we have top notch coaches that I believe can develop him into a R. Wilson type sucess only bigger and more athlectic!) Kenny stated there were 50 better picks, which I don’t agree with in the least bit, but that is his opinion and he is entitled to it, obviously with all the “thumbs down” he got, he is in the minority. Those 50 “better” picks could very well turn into 50 flops, and Thomas could end up next to Brady in the HOF someday, or visa versa, Thomas could very well flop, we just don’t know (every single player who is drafted has a 50% chance of failure) then he gets defensive because a lot of posters didn’t agree with his opinion, so I figured I would rib him a Tad to get his blood pressure up, if I upset him or offended him then I will apologize, but he shouldn’t be upset because nobody agreed with his post, its his opinion, he may be 100% right or 100% wrong, but we wont know for a few years. Heck if I got mad everytime I got multiple thumbs down on here, I would be one angry, violent, S.O.B.!

  47. By jason on Aug 6, 2014 | Reply

    Is this what the dog days of summer have brought to the message board? Are you people seriously arguing about a fourth round pick who is competing for the number three quarterback spot?


    Keim is the man who makes the personnel moves so I don’t know why you keep referencing Arians poor draft choices and it takes three years to properly evaluate a draft class, but let’s take a closer look just for fun.

    Keim has been the GM and Arians the HC for 16 draft picks in two years and out of those picks:

    14 are still on the roster (This is inflated right now because no cuts have been made)
    4 are projected starters (Cooper, Minter, Mathieu, Ellington) not to mention UDFA Tony Jefferson
    6 are second team (Watford, Okafor, Taylor, Bucannon, Martin, Niklas)
    1 is John Brown

    The players that he missed on were Ryan Swope a sixth round pick who retired because of concussions and seventh round pick DC Jefferson who was cut last year. The remaining three players are Logan Thomas (most likely going to make the team), fifth round pick Ed Stinson and sixth round pick Walt Powell who both still have a chance. Is there a chance that Thomas doesn’t pan out and will be viewed as a wasted pick? Sure, but there is also a chance that we have 9 future starters (10 if you count the slot WR as a starter) in two drafts which is pretty impressive.

  48. By kenny on Aug 7, 2014 | Reply

    in truth just to be drafted alone is a honor in itself sometimes guys mature later in their careers then others some are just college only ball players I was just saying that I believe that the 4th round made so sense at all I mean none as far as t davis in truth I knew he went in the 6th round I was just throwing out an example het tom brady joe Montana I believe were right around 3 rounders point in case why gamble in closing a lot or more cardinal backs like larry centers for example seem to have great careers all being drafted by the cards between the 3rd and 6th round don’t have the time to change the ball players names to caps to busy and don’t care see this is football not high school or grammar school guys just enjoy but dont pick on the guy who is not as educated as you its just not nice I must know something or I would not have been ahead coach for a pal team where in fact I might have learned more there then anywhere later guys

  49. By kenny on Aug 7, 2014 | Reply

    oh and as far as the typing errors I just don’t have the time to go back and correct them my information is just to express my opinion you see guys I grew up in the late VIETNAM era I am waiting for the next smart a…s to say pal now it makes sense well believe it or not that was where I received my best coaching in closing it just seems to be amazing how the cards organization finds these quality running backs in the later round regardless of who is the head coach or making the final decision keep it up guys you are all right

  50. By Dr. G. on Aug 8, 2014 | Reply

    br – – As forVeldheer, I watched him on Wednesday, but at this stage, history is your only barometer. Without game contact it is difficult to tell how things are going for various positions. He is probably the strongest man on the team. Keim, and BA know about him…trust me…he is the real deal.

    JTDG – – Logan Thomas… I think you will modify your opinion before too long. He is not ready yet, but the rap on him is not entirely legitimate. I watched him throw both short and long…he has arm power beyond what is necessary. He is not wild and out of control…and throws the tightest spiral I have seen in years. He is as any rookie and just needs to get the speed of the NFL. Watch him closely on Saturday…you may change your opinion… I just hope nerves are not part of his early learning curve… Protege is what he is…our Sancho Panza… His raw skills rival Rothlesberger in his prime.

  51. By kenny on Aug 9, 2014 | Reply

    hey guys yeah its the guy who cant spell read or write guys like FRAN TARKENTON AND JOE CAPP started the danger in a quarterback that could be a threat with his legs then came RANDALL CUNNINGHAM then came a slew of others that make the most important position on the field just outright a nightmare for defenses I am so rooting for this guy he has unlimited potential and he could be one hell of a diamond in the rough just like anybody who makes it to the NFL again for some reason the cards have just been flat out really unlucky with their QB draft choices since the beginning of time I wonder if JIM HART or perhaps NEIL LOMAX and I cant remember the 1 other guy who I believe was a good one not that PLUMMER as Denver proved was not a chump you see guys I thought we grabbed LINDLEY in the last round which made some sense and he had a lifetime completion percentage in college like in the low 50,s because wiz thought he saw something his biggest problem is he flat out has bad legs and runs like he has s….t tied to them but he throws a great long ball his biggest problem is the midrange ball so go ahead and tell me how wrong I am because anybody who says I am wrong just is not right I hope LOGAN lights up the field everybody enjoy the year see you at the super bowl with LOGAN at QB because palmer is just to limited enjoy the season

  52. By Dr. G. on Aug 9, 2014 | Reply

    ? ? ? ? ? ? / / / / / ! ! ! ! ! ! ! , , , , , , , , , , . . . . . . . . . . . . – – – – – – – . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
    Some punctuation to loan for our friends with run-on paragraphs…………………..

    Kenny – – Logan Thomas hitting the largest house in Arizona? I am betting that you have not seen him in action like I have… and, that your inaccurate premise is based upon rumors and emotional innuendo. One ((expert?)) poster is already looking to draft a QB without this year’s analysis and playing the schedule.

    Now, it is prudent to look ahead to the draft, not only for next year, but to future years as the college players begin to blossom. I am in favor of improving the QB position every year if possible and if necessary. The QB is the ignition key to ANY team having a modicum of success. But, as we look forward, we must give Thomas an opportunity to prove the doubters wrong. Some examples are:

    Hasselbeck – Round 6
    Montana – Round 3
    Tom Brady – Round 6
    Bart Starr – Round 17
    Staubach – Round 10 We could go on and on…..

    Taking a flier on Thomas is very practical in that we are set at QB for now barring injuries. Also, the QB class for 2015 looks to be promising. As an optimist on Thomas, I am hoping he can disappoint his detractors… Our coaches are capable of grooming him for the show… Cards Fans are best…

  53. By Dr. G. on Aug 9, 2014 | Reply

    One short follow on Logan- – These stats for last year at Va. Tech. look good despite having a suspect team around him. Check this out:

    57% Passing – 12 games – 2861 yds

    Rating – 125.6

    16 TD’s vs 13 INT’s (apparently rushed a lot)

    SACKED – 29 times…. protection? The potential is legit here….. with our coaches…

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