Beat the Rams, and the playoffs are all but a lock

Posted by Darren Urban on December 9, 2014 – 9:39 am

The NFC West can’t be decided this week. That is going to come down to the “Sunday Night Football” game at home against the Seahawks. But if the Cardinals can beat the Rams Thursday night, regardless of what happens in the rest of the league over the week, they will all but clinch a playoff berth.

The win would make the Cards 11-3, meaning their worst possible record would be 11-5. This is where the head-to-head wins over the Eagles, Cowboys and Lions this season become crucial. All three of those teams are 9-4. A loss by any one of them means the Cards will make the playoffs (again, assuming a win in St. Louis). Since the Cowboys and Eagles play this Sunday night, that’s practically guaranteed.

There is still a sliver of doubt, and as the Bengals and Panthers can attest, it’s not impossible. It is, however, incredibly unlikely an 11-5 Cardinals team is left at home for the postseason:

Here’s the one scenario which would leave an 11-5 Cardinals team out of the playoffs, as unlikely as it may be:

— The Lions finish 3-0 to go 12-4 (and they still have a game against the Packers).
— The Cowboys and Eagles tie Sunday night, and then each come up with wins in their final two games. That would make them 11-4-1.

(h/t to colleague Kyle Odegard for crunching these numbers.)

That scenario — and assuming the 10-3 Packers avoid what looks like an unlikely 1-2 finish against Buffalo, Tampa and Detroit — would leave the Cardinals at home. But a tie isn’t going to happen. Three more 100-yard rushing games by Kerwynn Williams seems more likely than an Eagles-Cowboys tie. (OK, the mathematicians out there probably would disagree, but you get the point.)

A win in St. Louis would be a major step.



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44 Responses to “Beat the Rams, and the playoffs are all but a lock”

  1. By sbrown on Dec 9, 2014 | Reply

    big game on Thursday, remember the loss at St L last year did come back to haunt the Cards. Must have a WIN to keep ahead of the rest and set up for Sea 10 days later. Go Cards !

  2. By rod on Dec 9, 2014 | Reply

    Rooting for my Cardinals!

  3. By NickPepe on Dec 9, 2014 | Reply

    All I am hearing is that no one wants to play the Rams. Over and over and over again. I got news for these “experts”. I do. I want the Cards to play the Rams. I want the Cards to play the Rams right now. Too bad we have to wait for Thursday night!

    We are going to take care of business Thursday. I truly feel that we come out of there with a “W”, and I still fully expect to win the division. No reason we can’t win all 3. We are very good at home and I think SF has all but mailed it in. But first things first. Lets fleece the sheep.

    Only one more day before the Wednesday Before……… Isn’t awesome that December football matters for the second year in a row. Would love for that to be a habit!

    Nick Pepe
    Lifetime Member ’70-’71

  4. By Dynosoar on Dec 9, 2014 | Reply

    This site is very insightful. They give the percentage of any team (broken out by AFC & NFC, so if you want to see AFC, just navigate clicking on NFL HOME on the left.

    According to them (and they use records, strength of schedule for games played and strength of schedule for upcoming games to determine percentage likelihood of securing a particular playoff seed as well as percentage a team does Not make the playoffs.)

    According to schedules and records, etc. we are 45% likely to secure the number one seed, Packers are 35% likely and the Seahawks are 15% likely. We are also only 2% likely to miss the playoffs. The 49ers are 1% and 4% likely to win a wildcard spot.

    This playoff season is 100% in our hands. This site and the way they gauge how likely a team is to make the playoffs (in a particular seed) has given me perspective and a calm approach since around week five of the season. Enjoy. This site is part of why I’m steadfastly believing the Cardinals keep home field advantage.

    Obviously one or two losses would change things, but we have faced a loss every week and only have three. We are 10-3 and still hold the number one seed, not secured, but it’s in our hands and must be taken from us. According to strength of schedule, We are The Team To Beat. (Well, us and the Packers, but we don’t play them, yet.)

    Also, the only teams with a tougher last three game strength of schedule than the Cardinals are the 49ers, Seahawks and Rams… because We’re on Their schedules.

    The Lombardi trophy or nothing at all!

  5. By Dynosoar on Dec 9, 2014 | Reply

    The Rams will be tough for us on a short week, but the Cardinals will be tough for the Rams on a short week. They’ve been blowing out their competition and may be weary from two such games and need more rest than four days for recovery. We should be more rested (they had a plane flight home Sunday, but we have a plane flight there Wednesday.)

    Also, all the teams we have left to play are games we can win and we have won against two of them and have the Seahawks in our house. We don’t lose at home. Not this season.

    (And St. Louis used to be our home, so let’s get a win in our former home and in our permanent home for the next two games. Then win in the 49ers house to close the season, securing home field for our last three games.)

    These games are going to be nail biters for sure, but we can win and our team Wants To Win.

    The Lombardi trophy or nothing at all.

  6. By D on Dec 9, 2014 | Reply

    I don’t like this game Thurs with basically a backup Card team with a QB that hasn’t played well, especially on the road versus a team with nothing to lose, one of the hottest teams right now in the NFL and has had two shut outs in the last two weeks…that is unheard of in the NFL.

  7. By Dynosoar on Dec 9, 2014 | Reply

    Nick Pepe,

    I want the Rams right now as well. We’ll be 13-3 in three weeks and have home field advantage throughout and the experts will still pick us to lose every week. (Which is good because it’s the weeks they pick us to win that we don’t.)

    The Lombardi trophy or nothing at all!

  8. By Dynosoar on Dec 9, 2014 | Reply

    Four teams at 10-3 and We Are On Of Them! How cool is that?

    As to the 49ers, I’m not counting them out, I just feel they are a weaker team than the Rams or the Seahawks. I’m glad they are our last game as it Should be easier to physically recover from that game than either of the other two.

    (Although, the way injuries have been piling up, our guys are either fresh or have had a few weeks off during the season to rest up, err, recover from injuries where other teams haven’t had that luxury = silver lining?)

    As many have stated, this week may be the toughest of the last three regular season games. It’s against a Rams team that is playing lights out (although, against two teams who are mightily struggling and one of those just beat the 49ers, hmmm.)

    Superbowlcards, I agree with Dr.G. – The Lombardi trophy or nothing at all! Your name says it right.

    Speaking of Dr. G., you replied to me that I’m “whizzin’ against the tide trying to inform louis what it takes to be a loyal fan”, sorry louis, but that Was funny. So louis, are you in or out? Or should I stop facing the wind. Haha! Come and join us in the glass is half full world. We’re 10-3!

    The Lombardi trophy or nothing at all!

  9. By Dynosoar on Dec 9, 2014 | Reply

    As to this game against the Rams…

    We can win this game.
    We Should win This game
    We can and should win the next three games.

    We are the team to beat in the NFC West.
    We hold the best record (with tie breaks) in the NFC.
    We are the team to beat!

    Do we win… I don’t know. (But I’m excited to find out.)
    What I do know is we have the best record in the NFC. We currently hold home field advantage throughout the playoffs and into the Super Bowl. (I understand it’s Not secured, but home filed is ours to keep. We don’t have to win it, just hold onto it, Because we already won it.)

    Our team let preparation fail against SEA and ATL, there is no room to fail now and they know it and this team plays best from behind. That’s who they are.

    We are the team to beat!

    The Lombardi trophy or nothing at all!

  10. By Dynosoar on Dec 9, 2014 | Reply

    Wow, did I really just post five comments? I’m becoming another br in nc. Haha!

    We miss ya. Come back soon and in time for our game in February, if not for some of the January games.

  11. By NickPepe on Dec 9, 2014 | Reply

    Dyno – let Louis be. He is beyond the help of anyone on here.


  12. By Dallas Cardsfan on Dec 9, 2014 | Reply

    I have a good feeling about this game. I am wondering why BA hasn’t gone to hurry up / no huddle to throw a curve at one of these teams. This would be a great game to do it. If you can wear out the Rams D early then you may be able to put enough points up to make them change their whole game plan.

    I am looking for the Hags and Whiners beat the crap out of each other this week.

  13. By Big Ken on Dec 9, 2014 | Reply

    Teams are afraid to the Rams because they beat up the Raiders and the Redskins back to back? C’mon now. Exciting game, bring it!

  14. By steve on Dec 9, 2014 | Reply


    I think if there is a 3 way tie between any 3 of Cards, Det/GB, and Dallas/Philly that it reverts to division record. They cant use head to head victories in a 3 way tie. If Cards, Dallas and Detroit are all 11-5 and our division record is the worst of those 3 teams we would be out. Hard to believe but true. See below:

    If it is necessary to break ties to determine the two wild-card teams from each conference, the following steps will be taken.
    1. If the tied teams are from the same division, apply division tiebreaker.
    2. If the tied teams are from different divisions, apply the following steps.

    Two teams
    1. Head-to-head, if applicable.
    2. Best won-lost-tied percentage in games played within the conference.
    3. Best won-lost-tied percentage in common games, minimum of four.
    4. Strength of victory.
    5. Strength of schedule.
    6. Best combined ranking among conference teams in points scored and points allowed.
    7. Best combined ranking among all teams in points scored and points allowed.
    8. Best net points in conference games.
    9. Best net points in all games.
    10. Best net touchdowns in all games.
    11. Coin toss.

    Three or more teams
    (Note: If two teams remain tied after the third step or other teams are eliminated, tiebreaker reverts to step 1 of applicable two-team format.)
    1. Apply division tiebreaker to eliminate all but the highest-ranked team in each division prior to proceeding to step 2. The original seeding within a division upon application of the division tiebreaker remains the same for all subsequent applications of the procedure that are necessary to identify the two wild-card participants.
    2. Head-to-head sweep. (Applicable only if one team has defeated each of the others or if one team has lost to each of the others.)
    3. Best won-lost-tied percentage in games played within the conference.
    4. Best won-lost-tied percentage in common games, minimum of four.
    5. Strength of victory.
    6. Strength of schedule.
    7. Best combined ranking among conference teams in points scored and points allowed.
    8. Best combined ranking among all teams in points scored and points allowed.
    9. Best net points in conference games.
    10. Best net points in all games.
    11. Best net touchdowns in all games.
    12. Coin toss.

    When the first wild-card team has been identified, the procedure is repeated to name the second wild card, i.e., eliminate all but the highest-ranked team in each division prior to proceeding to step 2. In situations where three or more teams from the same division are involved in the procedure, the original seeding of the teams remains the same for subsequent applications of the tiebreaker if the top-ranked team in that division qualifies for a wild-card berth.

  15. By Darren Urban on Dec 9, 2014 | Reply

    Steve —

    RE: Tiebreaker

    In the tiebreak of three head-to-head teams, you can’t apply 1) because none of the teams are in the same division. So you go to 2) head-to-head sweep. The Cardinals swept both teams. They would get the tiebreak.

  16. By Marlin on Dec 9, 2014 | Reply

    CARDINALS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  17. By nodavis2000 on Dec 9, 2014 | Reply

    Good afternoon Darren,

    I don’t know why I hear all this chatter about St. Louis being one of the hottest teams in the NFL right now. I understand that pitching shut outs are a big deal, but come on, the two teams they did that against were OAKLAND and WASHINGTON.

    REPEAT: The wins were against OAKLAND AND WASHINGTON. They are among the worst teams in the league. I’m sorry, I just don’t see all the hoopla about it. If they shut out the Broncos, Patriots, and\or Packers, that’s a completely different story.

    I think this will be a hard game, Thurs night games always are. And this is an away game to boot. But as long as our D stops their O (which is definitely possible) and our O doesn’t turn over the ball, then this is a very winnable game.

    Darren, what are your thoughts about the “super hot” St. Louis Rams being one of the teams that other teams don’t want to play??? I can bull honky, but what do you think???

    Thanks for your thoughts!!!

    Go Cards!!!

  18. By Darren Urban on Dec 9, 2014 | Reply

    nodavis —

    RE: Rams

    I think the Rams are playing better than they have all season, and that their defense is for real. That’s all that really matters.

  19. By clssylssy on Dec 9, 2014 | Reply

    As I stated before Dynosoar…Love you enthusiasm and optomism, lol! I too, would be more optomistic is we were playing this Thursday night game earlier in the season with our starting team instead of facing a team that was beginning to look a lot like us last season, playing lights out the second half of the season. So their blowout games came to “weaker” teams; we played the same teams and could only muster a win by +10 and +11 points. In this league, believing a team is a slam dunk because it’s “weaker” is not only extremely arrogant but also is inviting loss (as we saw against the Falcons who nearly beat the Packers the other night too). I would have loved to have even one game in which we were able to blowout our opponent by +20 or +50, let alone two…or, even have a blowout game!
    I think this game is winnable if:
    1. We are able to get pressure on their QB consistently (sacks are always great for demoralizing the opponent and have a positive psychological effect on the entire team.
    2. We are more efficient at tackling.
    3. Our O-line can protect Drew and allow him time to see the field for opportunities.
    4. Our receivers are able to make catches and Protect the Football.
    5. Our special teams can come through and make those amazing plays we got used to earlier in our season
    6. Our defense can imagine they are playing Seattle and keep the pressure on the full sixty.
    7. We are able to convert on 3rd downs
    8. The Cat man can shake off whats been ailing him and find new focus.
    9. We don’t hang ourselves with penalties.
    10. We win the play calling battle (hopefully, our coaches have been paying attention to the changes in their play since last time we met and adjust accordingly)
    At this point, with our new legs and a win, hopefully we can gut it out and keep moving forward. It’s not over till the Fat Lady sings for anybody in our division, and I want to see that Divisionn Champions banner flying in UofP stadium. Then we’ll worry about the Packers…!

  20. By Dynosoar on Dec 9, 2014 | Reply


    I too would love a blowout game. I remember I was on the edge of the couch during that Rams game until the second interception by PP. Oh what I wouldn’t give for a blowout victory, but whether I like it or not, that’s not who this team is.

    Evryone talks in the beginning of every season about teams finding an identity. I think the reason I’m enthusiastic is because I feel the identity of this team is a scrappy resilliant we’ll win somehow and most likely in the last quarter but We Will Win identity.

    I agree with your top ten list and would throw one in at no extra charge –
    11. Score a touchdown when we enter the red zone. Just half the times we enter the red zone would win any game we’ve played.

    As to #8, what are the odds of two upright bounces, from the right And the left in a single game.

  21. By Dynosoar on Dec 9, 2014 | Reply

    Please don’t misunderstand what I’ve been saying.

    I’m not counting games before they’re played, I’m not.

    I’m just saying I’m less worried about the Rams and 49ers than I was at the beginning of the season.

    nodavis said it best, they beat Oakland and the Redskins. And the 49ers lost to the Raiders and the Rams. We’ve beaten all four of those teams. And I believe our current starting quarteback had a hand in those wins, well, three of them.

    Does this mean a win for us, no. I understand this, but it gives me peace of mind that We Are In The Drivers Seat and they are Not and we have won against them. As to Seattle, they are playing real good football, but will be in our house.

    I don’t know if we have the edge, but we ARE the team to beat. (I just hope more than anything our Cardinals hang on to their Home Field advantage, because it will be as difficult to play away games during the playoffs as it will be for our opponents to play in our house during the playoffs.)

    We can and should win two of our last three. We can win them all.

    The Lombardi trophy or nothing at all!

  22. By Dr. G. on Dec 9, 2014 | Reply

    11-5 and staying home; that would have happened last year even if we won the last game. But NO WAY…THIS TEAM IS NOT SNAKE BITTEN ANY MORE…

    Darren – – How much practice and attention has Logan been getting? I am thinking that he can become something of a QB if he gets some reps. I know you said a short time ago that he is not really ready yet…. I am thinking next year’s backup that can really come in and go….any improvement?

  23. By Darren Urban on Dec 9, 2014 | Reply

    Dr. G —

    RE: Thomas

    We don’t get to watch practice. Can’t tell you.

  24. By D on Dec 9, 2014 | Reply

    Reality check, no sense working out playoff seeding with 3 division games left on schedule. It’s great the passion everyone is showing, but let’s all come back down to Earth…We have a backup QB, with a backup RB who have to face a solid pass rush whom we all watched give Massie all kinds of issues in the past. Not to mention the AZ patched up secondary, and don’t forget how good TE’s still have their way with our Defense…don’t want to rain on everyone’s parade…and the RB from Auburn is a beast…

  25. By ryan on Dec 9, 2014 | Reply





  26. By Big Ken on Dec 9, 2014 | Reply

    Don’t the Rams know how important it is to be positioning themselves for next year’s draft? Go Cardinals!

  27. By Patrick Hoog aka Don't Take Losses on Dec 9, 2014 | Reply

    Daren and Schedule/Playoff Gurus…Agree? Or help me on what I may have missed:

    1. There is a benefit of playing Thursday, we get 10 days to get ready for Seahawks, to heal, to rest;

    2. Looks like we have to beat Seattle and win 1 more to win division; if we both finish 11-5, Seattle will have better division record at 4-2 to our 3-3;

    3. if we win out, do we get Home Field all the way even if GB wins out?

    4. If we only win 1, and get in, we’ll have to travel until SB? No home games?

    Getting in position to be in playoff position. Go Cards.

  28. By Darren Urban on Dec 9, 2014 | Reply

    DTL —

    RE: “missed”

    1. Yes, but a loss and it’s a long 10 days.
    2. That’s correct.
    3. Yes.
    4. Not necessarily. Depends on what seed, and who advances. Could in theory go road, road, host NFC champ.

  29. By Scott H on Dec 9, 2014 | Reply

    Wow,,,,the omens here are many, some good, some not so good.

    Good – In 2008, it was on the road in St Louis where the Cardinals clinched the NFC West crown.

    Not so good – How badly they played in the next several games AFTER they clinched the playoff spot.

    NEED the good. CANNOT have the not so good!

    Geez, just goes to show ya how insanely competitive the NFC has been the last 2 seasons. Last year, we went 7-2 over the last 9 games, finished 10-6, missed the playoffs. Mostly because the damn Panthers just wouldn’t lose a game over that same stretch. Then again….10-6 would have won the NFC North.

    This year, the Cards have had THE best or tied for the best record in the conference since day one. And yet a win in week 14 – which would make us 11-3 – might not even guarantee a playoff spot. Man….

    Then again, there are a FEW divisions the Cards would have already clinched with that record. Damn, it is HARD to be in the NFC West. We would have won the North last year….would have clinched the South weeks ago this year….but in the West, you can be 10-3 after 13 games and maybe you don’t even make the playoffs. Shame the rest of the NFL doesn’t have to work as hard as the Cardinals do!

    Hard to believe the RAMS might just hold the key to the outcome in the West this year, because they have both the Cards and Seahawks before the season is over. And the RAMS look like THEY might be the toughest out in the division right now! Crazy….

  30. By robert on Dec 9, 2014 | Reply

    PP on Austin is key number one
    the tight ends on st luis are good and we always have problems
    we need to run the ball and stay out of predicable 3rd down passing downs, if not stanton will not finish the game
    We need and will make 2 or 3 long plays and win 21-20

  31. By Andy Kw on Dec 9, 2014 | Reply

    We can clinch a playoff spot guys so use that as your motivation.

  32. By Scott H on Dec 9, 2014 | Reply

    nodavis2000 –

    Forget the shutouts ( by the Rams ) of Oakland and Washington. Think about the OTHER teams the Rams have beaten. They include the Seahawks, 49ers, and Broncos. Two of those three played in last year’s Super Bowl. Did ya know that? THAT is why there is concern for the Rams, NOT wins against the Redskins and Raiders.

    They also played the hell out of the Cowboys and Eagles in games they lost. The Rams have been BALLIN’ this year. Heck, if THEY play in the NFC South, THEY are a playoff team!

    People were saying the same thing about the Cardinals last year even though we were likely to not make the playoffs. Record and / or playoff-bound had nothing to do with it. It was the way we were playing, period. And with the Rams, it is the way THEY are playing. Maybe you haven’t really paid attention to it but some of us have.

    And BTW, how do you disregard CONSECUTIVE shut-outs like that??? Shut-outs are HARD to achieve, even against bad teams. I don’t care who ya play, when any team has played 8 consecutive quarters against ANY two teams and not allowed either of them a single point – not even a lousy FG – THAT is pretty damn impressive. How many times do you see a game where one team is bowling another out but they give up 2-3 TD’s late in the game that don’t matter? It happens every week. To preserve a shut-out, you have to keep that intensity going all the way to the end, and many teams do not do that. The Rams have done it 2 weeks in a row.

    Maybe those of us who are feeling some concern for the Rams know what we’re talking about.

    That said, I know the Cardinals are a better team. Trouble is, these Thurs night games for “better” teams playing on the road have been a problem this season. Many of those “better” teams have lost and some of them have lost big. THAT is part of the concern as well.

  33. By Andy Kw on Dec 9, 2014 | Reply

    I’d have to say, the St.Louis Rams are playing like a playoff team now with Shaun Hill as QB. The Arizona Cardinals cannot underestimate this team. They have really good linebackers with James Laurinaitis and Alec Ogletree. They have an elite DL with Michael Brockers, Robert Quinn, and Aaron Donald. They have Janoris Jenkins and TJ Mcdonald. They are loaded with young, aggressive players and we cannot afford to miss a single day of practice or a single starter. Drew Stanton, just stay calm in the pocket and don’t lose the ball. The team will be looking for strip sacks when they have the chance.
    -We believe in the Cardinals and our defense is still as good as ever. Calais Campbell, Frostee Rucker, Tommy Kelly, Alex Okafor, time to bring the heat. Antonio Cromartie and Patrick Peterson will do fine and I think this is there chance for redemption.
    -Keep your head in the game, stay strong and a playoff spot will be ours for the taking.

  34. By CreditCard on Dec 9, 2014 | Reply

    The scary thing about the Rams is their front 4 can beat and beat up the front 6 OL and TE for most teams.

    I think the Cards defense will keep them in the game, if the offense can put a few things together, the over-all talent on the Cards is better than the Rams. Will be one of the more physical games of the year.

    I think by the time we play the 9ers, they’ll have fork in them, and will be going through the motions, s/b a Card victory. These next two games, will be play-off caliber for sure

  35. By Lee W. Flanagan on Dec 10, 2014 | Reply

    The Cardinals have traditionally had bad games on Thursday Night and Monday Night. I really think that this one will be different. The culture has changed and they believe it too. I think that Stanton will have his best performance of his career. Don’t be surprised if the Cardinals finish with the best record in the NFL. THE OTHER TEAMS HAVE TO PLAY THEIR GAMES TOO.

  36. By georgiebird on Dec 10, 2014 | Reply

    I notice that the Practice Squad is void of any defensive linemen. Is that why Stinson and Ta’Amu have not been put on IR? Even the LB’s on the PS are quite thin.
    The lack of productivity from Ta’Amu(knee), Stinson (toe) and Martin have been most disappointing to me this year- thought all three would be break-out type players.

  37. By Darren Urban on Dec 10, 2014 | Reply

    Georgie —

    RE: DL

    First of all, Ta’amu is healthy, so he wouldn’t go on IR. And Stinson has been back to practice, albeit on a limited basis.

  38. By clssylssy on Dec 10, 2014 | Reply

    Currently the Rams are considered the best-.500 team in the league and the team considered”a QB away from being a playoff nightmare”…don’t think they have any thoughts about positioning themselves for the draft! This could very well be the best game of the week, a battle of killer defenses, and barometer of how the Cards will fair against Seattle. Aaron Donald is an amazing young talent and I hope the coaches have watched tape on him because he could really do our offense some serious damage. We can do this if all hands are on deck with their head in the game and are focused on one win at a time.

  39. By Andy Kw on Dec 10, 2014 | Reply

    I think it is time to shows the Rams some Cardinals football

  40. By much.faster on Dec 10, 2014 | Reply

    ” …Will be one of the more physical games of the year. …” lol, no doubt, it will.

    but imo the rams aren`t as good as the hawks, so there should be a chance to win, even on the road. and then on to the most physical game of the year, lol.

    if the team wins this two games, and the packers loose in buffalo, imo the bills defence is way better then the packers, then the game in frisco is just for fun.

  41. By Steve ridding red all the way on Dec 10, 2014 | Reply

    I hope our offence can get going , a first drive touchdown would be nice to see

  42. By Rio on Dec 10, 2014 | Reply

    Radio reporting Kurt Warner is coming back for last two games and playoffs.

  43. By BigAl on Dec 10, 2014 | Reply

    I want to see Robert Hughes, Robert Hughes, Robert Hughes, Kerwynn sandwich, Robert Hughes, Robert Hughes, Robert Hughes!!! Pound em!
    Pound them all… w/Robert Hughes!!!

  44. By C foster on Dec 11, 2014 | Reply

    Let’s go cards the Rams shut out Oakland and Washington but if anyone thinks the cardinals are in the same position as those two teams they are not very bright this is a stepping stone game it will be very physical and a great defense game but im sure history will repeat itself with fitz out there soaking up coverage leaving others open play off are a done deal

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