Panthers aftermath

Posted by Darren Urban on October 30, 2016 – 8:02 pm

At one point – and it was very ugly for a while Sunday – someone said to me on Twitter that Sunday’s showing by the Cardinals in Carolina was worse than the one in January by the Cardinals in Carolina. Uh, no. It wasn’t at its lowest point Sunday, and then the Cardinals started to rally.

Late rallies after early bad deficits are what they are. It shows a little something, but it doesn’t wipe out what you did to tumble into the hole in the first place. There were legitimate questions of why it turned out this way – hangover from the nasty five quarters against the Seahawks, an early kickoff – but it’s really all moot.

Now the Cardinals reach the halfway point and their bye with a chance to regroup. Get a little more healthy. And try and make sure the gains they had made over the previous three games don’t go to waste.

“We’re not going to coward away,” quarterback Carson Palmer said.

They shouldn’t. The math says they are still in control of their own destiny. The Seahawks lost and aren’t looking all that powerful themselves. The problem is that the Cardinals have to pile up wins – on the road – in the second half of the season to get there. Doable, but they will have to play much more consistently from here on out.

— About the two replays. The first is simple. It was a turnover and a score. The booth was going to look at it. Both Bruce Arians and Palmer lobbied that it was a pass and not a fumble, but that’s as much as they can do. No, Arians can’t call a timeout to argue more. The booth – rightly or wrongly – decided quickly that there was no reason to look at it closely. I was stunned, and so were the Cardinals, but that was that.

— As for the Greg Olsen catch on the sideline that by TV replay looked incomplete (and ultimately cost the Cards four points, because the Panthers ended up getting a touchdown instead of a field goal), Arians said the Cardinals did not get a replay that showed something to be challenged. It doesn’t sound like they necessarily get the TV replay.

— The bye comes at a good time, because the Cardinals are hurting. It’s never good when your starting left tackle leaves the game, and Jared Veldheer has been so tough since he showed up you have to figure something really had to be wrong with his right arm to come out. That’s one that bears watching. If Veldheer was hurting long-term, D.J. Humphries may slide over to the left side and John Wetzel – who replaced Veldheer Sunday – could be on the right side.

— The Cards also have to see how safety Tyrann Mathieu is with his shoulder and if whatever that sent Larry Fitzgerald to the sideline hobbling (he came back in) is something that lingers.

Yes, a bye is a good thing for a wounded team.

— Panthers quarterback Cam Newton, who was not happy earlier in the season by some hits he was taking and said something about it, wasn’t happy after the game again. At one point after a run he had words with linebacker Kevin Minter and safety D.J. Swearinger, and then he was very upset after defensive tackle Calais Campbell got him between the knees and ankles on a pass attempt, pulling Newton down in an attempted sack. No flag was thrown.

Campbell had stumbled through the blocking – it did not look like he intentionally dove at Newton’s knees – and he tried to say something that looked conciliatory after the play.

“I could have torn my ACL,” Newton said. “That’s the breaking point.”

Newton added, “It’s really taken the fun out of the game for me, honestly. It really is because at times, I don’t even feel safe. Right? And enough is enough. I plan on talking to Commissioner Roger Goodell about this.”

— Michael Floyd played, but he didn’t have a catch (save for one wiped out by penalty). We’ll see where he is with his hamstring, but he looked OK running around. John Brown got his first touchdown of the season but Arians said he’s still not playing like Smoke. J.J. Nelson, however, played very well, and Arians said someone is going to have to take Nelson’s playing time away at this point.

— An early hole made it harder to stick with the run, but what really made it hard was that the Panthers’ run defense swarmed David Johnson Sunday. Between that and the eight sacks, it was not a good day for the offense line. To their collective credit, they owned up to it.

— Cards are down 16, but there is still a quarter to go and they have momentum. So:

1) Earl Watford is called for holding on a no-yard run on first-and-10;
2) Veldheer is called for illegal formation on first-and-20;
3) Palmer gains six yards on a pass to make it second-and-19 and then drills Andre Ellington for a 27-yard gain but D.J. Humphries is called for hands-to-the-face and Palmer pops off (pretty mildly, though – “Another freaking flag”? draws a flag?) and suddenly, the Cards aren’t inside the Carolina 30 but at their own 20 on second-and-44.

— Sure the Cards had their chance late after the Jefferson fumble and before the Palmer tipped interception, but that penalty sequence really undercut the comeback. You can be upset with the flags being thrown, but ultimately, you have to avoid them in the first place. Usually the Cards are good at that.

— I’ve rambled long enough. Eight games to go. We’ll see if the Cardinals can find a way to be playing beyond New Year’s Day.

Carson Palmer, Kawann Short

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Posted in Blog | 49 Comments »

49 Responses to “Panthers aftermath”

  1. By creditcard on Oct 30, 2016 | Reply

    Nope, not in the cards this year for the Cards.

    Something is wrong. The team looks flat, unemotional. Locker room issues? Lack of drive by coaches? Double standards? Something, more than the o-line being terrible.

  2. By jsweet2911 on Oct 30, 2016 | Reply

    Darren —

    I still DO NOT UNDERSTAND why BA does not throw a challenge flag on the “fumble/TD” or the Olsen catch. I think that’s why a lot of fans are upset. We don’t care about the booth…why can’t our coach throw the flag? The Palmer fumble was about as obvious as it gets, and on the Olsen catch, you still had three timeouts remaining and absolutely nothing to lose. And then he DOES challenge the Ginn catch that was 25% as obvious as the other two. Unbelievable. Those two plays fall on BA. I wish he would just take ownership and admit it.

  3. By Darren Urban on Oct 30, 2016 | Reply

    jsweet2911 —

    RE: Challenge plays

    1) I explained the first one above. Let me repeat: He CANNOT CHALLENGE the first one. It’s already looked at as a TD and as a turnover.

    2) YOU don’t care about the booth but every single coach in the NFL does. If Arians — who, from his spot on the field has no way to see the Olsen play himself — can’t get a replay that shows something, all he would be doing is wasting a challenge and a timeout.

  4. By Canadian Redbird on Oct 30, 2016 | Reply

    Not sure who I enjoy seeing lose more Newton or Pete Carroll. I guess I got half my wish today. Newton’s a hot dog when he scores and a ” cry baby ” when he gets hit. His claims of talking to the commissioner is something only he would think of. Like he’s bigger then the game. The 2 – 5 record looks good on him. You don’t see guys like Russel Wilson or Brady pulling that kind of nonsense.

    Not sure what game Arians is watching because the replay on TV clearly showed Olsen not getting two feet down on that critical sideline pass. If we don’t have someone dedicated to watching replays, we certainly should from this point on. . It’s happened a couple times already this year

    Pretty obvious that our O Line was over matched today. Reffing seemed suspect as confirmed by the game announcer’s comments.

    On a positive note, Jeffersen was outstanding again.I like his smarts and the way he scratches and claws to make plays out there Get the guy signed.

    Hope that the injuries to Mathieu and Veldeer aren’t season ending. We need all hands on deck for the stretch drive.

  5. By rick on Oct 30, 2016 | Reply

    It seems to me that Bruce Arians is just not himself and hasn`t been himself since he was hospitalized in San Diego. I want the old Bruce back with fire and motivation like we are use to. C`mon Cards !!!

  6. By Wild Blue Yonder on Oct 30, 2016 | Reply

    There are two good things that’ll come from the Cards’ probable record of 7-8-1 (and, that’s optimistic) this season.
    #1: A lower draft pick
    #2: An easier schedule

  7. By Austin on Oct 30, 2016 | Reply

    Darren, putting your own attitude aside, you’re actually wrong about that. He can and did all a timeout to argue more. And the fumble part of that play WAS actually challengable according to mike peirera. Arians said the ref told him to “save his timeout” but I feel it’s Arians decision to call a timeout if he very well chooses to. If they grant him that timeout (still don’t know why they didnt) I can almost guarantee you they take another look at it. Also if you don’t think our upstairs “replay guy” didn’t have the angle they were showing on “TV” that’s ridiculous. That is the 2nd or third time that’s happened this year. What did Arians have to lose on the Olsen catch ?????? Oh that’s right…. the timeout he tried to waste for the first call. If you can’t agree Arians has badly misjudged and botched our challenges this year you’re doing the fans on this site a disservice.

  8. By Chris on Oct 30, 2016 | Reply

    Real tough loss fellas

  9. By Big Ken on Oct 30, 2016 | Reply

    Cam Newton needs to put on his big boy pants.

  10. By Canadian Redbird on Oct 30, 2016 | Reply


    Can the ball carrier stick his hands in a tackler’s grill? If so, should there not have been a penalty on Davis against DJ on the fumble recovery touch down. The picture on the website would indicate a ” GUILTY CHARGE “. I think it was Humphries that had a hand to the face call in the 4th quarter. The refereeing seemed a tad one sided favoring the Panthers.
    Thanks for your reply.

  11. By Darren Urban on Oct 31, 2016 | Reply

    Canadian —

    RE: Ballcarrier, facemasking

    A ballcarrier can stiff-arm into a facemask as long as he doesn’t grab it. Happens all the time.

    And it was Humphries with the hands to the face.

  12. By Dr. G. on Oct 30, 2016 | Reply

    Darren ~ ~ There were so many things to point to that you could go pages on this wrap. But, a couple you could include are the plays of PPXXI, our over paid DB. He gave up a home run, and on another play he got juked so badly that the Honey Badger had to show him how to tackle on the same play…

    Sorry, but I just turn a deaf ear to his excuses. If he is a shut down, then his play should demo that, but rarely does, except when they don’t throw his way…when they do, his true colors are exposed… Thanks for the summary…good time for a bye now…

  13. By dan on Oct 31, 2016 | Reply

    BA looks more like BS

  14. By dan on Oct 31, 2016 | Reply

    Throw the challenge flag u dope

  15. By dan on Oct 31, 2016 | Reply

    Tony Jefferson is the best player on defense……..hope he get a big payday somewhere else……..too bad we gave Justin Bethel his money.

  16. By Dan on Oct 31, 2016 | Reply

    Larry Fitzgeralds stats suck this year………good job BA.

  17. By Steve on Oct 31, 2016 | Reply

    The referees made some horse#$&t calls today like they do every game but I’m not sure it really mattered the way our O-line stunk. I just hope the new injuries to Veldheer and Mathieu aren’t serious. Cam Newton is fast becoming a pompous arrogant prima donna and I wouldn’t mind seeing other teams put a bounty on him.

  18. By Hammy on Oct 31, 2016 | Reply

    Where to start??? First off, if this isn’t the same old song that they play on the radio each and every day while driving down I-10 to get to work… For the past 15 years I have been probably the most die hard Arizona Cardinals fan who lives on the east coast. When asked what is my favorite team? It’s so obvious its AZ because of my pro sideline hat that I wear every freaking day! This game makes me mad! We do this all the time; go to the east coast and put up a poor performance resulting in a lose. Our O-Line was SOFT! Palmer was holding on to the ball too long! Andre Ellington should not be returning kickoffs! Players need to play with passion and urgency! Tired of finding excuses for the Honey Badger! Can we finally draft a quarterback next year! Nkemdiche where are you??? Not saying its time to panic but yes I change my mind, its time to panic! If we lose another game then we just might have to tank like the 76ers just to get a good draft pick. Only bright spots this year are DJ Swearinger, David Johnson, JJ Nelson, and whoever our longsnapper is! A team we should have beat yet again we lose against….

  19. By casht1874 on Oct 31, 2016 | Reply

    He hasn’t been right, and I think it’s more going on with that situation than what is being talked about. Players look flat, uninspired, and coaching staff looks like they’re in LaLa land. What gets me is all of the mental mistakes over and over like it’s some new scheme. Why can’t our players just do there jobs? I think it’s a locker room issue or favoritism that is irking some of the players.

  20. By Homer on Oct 31, 2016 | Reply

    Yeah, Moe, that team sure did suck last night. They just plain sucked. I’ve seen teams suck before but they were the suckiest bunch of sucks that ever sucked.

  21. By carlo milano on Oct 31, 2016 | Reply

    From what i saw yesterday and the previous match against jets, this wetzel is the bright spot in our offensive line

  22. By jeffcardinalfan on Oct 31, 2016 | Reply


  23. By joe holst on Oct 31, 2016 | Reply

    I think they need to evaluate Harold Goodwin’s position after this year closely, I know BA love him but someone has to go,

  24. By Rich White on Oct 31, 2016 | Reply

    Lots of issues but like the poster above me pointed out, something about BA is just different this year. Seems more distracted or less focused. Not feeling well? Brother-in-law illness? Hard to put finger on but just not our old BA.

  25. By Scott H on Oct 31, 2016 | Reply

    Ugh. Didn’t see the game ( until Fox put it on just in time to see Jefferson recover a fumble and Palmer give it right back on the next play ) but here is what I really don’t want to hear today – that the refs were against us and that is how we lost the game. No, the refs were not against us. And that is not really how / why we lost the game. For whatever reason(s) that could be reasonably identified the bottom line is that ( again ) we just didn’t play well enough. And never mind any one game we’re played this year – THAT is why we are now below .500 after 8 games. We just aren’t playing well enough.

    For whatever reason(s) you want to point to, we just are NOT who we thought we were going to be. We do not look like a playoff team, let along a SB team. I hear the on-going refrain about if we can just put some wins together….but the reality is, it’s just not happening. Bad time to lose yesterday because Seattle did, too. Could have closed the gap in the division. Coulda, woulda, shoulda, doesn’t matter. We didn’t. The weeks keep coming and going and we just keep getting further away from where we want to be.

    We don’t look like a team that can string wins together this year. After yesterday – and the week before – the sad fact remains that we haven’t beaten a good team this year. Our only wins are against bad teams. When that is who you are after half the season, you are not really a playoff team. Whether you actually GET to the playoffs or not….do you really belong there??

    So, now the bye, then the 2nd half. We’ve played ourselves to below .500 and behind too many teams in the NFC to feel real good about our chances. Even if we CAN get on a roll, you now need several other teams to fall off enough to get past them. And the injuries just keep piling up.

    We appear to have the talent and the coaching to be an NFC powerhouse. But as the weeks keep coming and going, the reality is that we’re just not what we thought we were. And that is just….sad.

  26. By TucsonTim on Oct 31, 2016 | Reply

    Looks like the O-line started their bye-week a week ago. It must have been difficult for them to look Carson in the eye during and after that debacle.

    Unfortunately, this looked like the same “low energy” team I saw in North Carolina in January, except now I think you can add undisciplined and poorly coached. (not just BA, the whole package, O-line, O-coordinator, WR, et al )

    Yes, that was a bad call to start the game. But giving up 17 unanswered points is not how good teams respond.

    Do we have a screen play or draw play in our play book. Even high school coaches know you can use those plays and others to slow down an over whelming pass rush.

    BA clearly doesn’t know what that red piece of cloth in his pocket is needed for. I would have thought after Buffalo, there would be someone who can relay the information.

  27. By Marlin on Oct 31, 2016 | Reply

    They were rested and fresh. We were beat up and tired. Probably same for Seattle losing to NO.
    A week off… then we go 7 wins, 1 loss and finish with the Division title!
    After the season, let’s hope BA retires … a winner….. but retires none the less.

  28. By CardinalChris on Oct 31, 2016 | Reply

    Not seeing anything from this team to excite me about the rest of the season. Feels like 6 wins would be overachieving… Time to start planning for draft day. Can’t remember being more disappointed as a Card fan. Really likeable group of players to root for, but they look done.

  29. By Jacob on Oct 31, 2016 | Reply

    I don’t know what’s worse, watching all the bad playing and coaching…or reading Darren Urban constantly defending the bad playing and coaching. And if his unobjective approach to sports writing wasn’t bad enough, he takes every opportunity to throw underhanded comments at the fans, reminding them they’re stupid and don’t know anything about football. But to use Darren’s go-to, answer-all argument, “It’s all moot anyway.”

  30. By Darren Urban on Oct 31, 2016 | Reply

    Jacob —

    RE: Me

    If I offend you so much, feel free not to read my stuff. No one makes you.

  31. By Eric G on Oct 31, 2016 | Reply

    Welp, after yesterday’s debacle, the only hope the Cards have to get into the playoffs is for Seattle to keep under-performing as well. So far, they are. It was the NFC least as the bad division last year, now its the NFC Worst.

    Guess the Cards are the new team that is entitled to a bad century.

  32. By Wild Blue Yonder on Oct 31, 2016 | Reply

    Joe Hoist,
    You raise a good point.
    Is Harold Goodwin today’s Russ Grimm?

    Rich White,
    Another good point.
    Is BA “coaching them hard and hugging them afterward” as he claimed earlier?

  33. By TucsonTim on Oct 31, 2016 | Reply

    “We’re not going to coward away,” quarterback Carson Palmer said
    They shouldn’t. The math says they are still in control of their own destiny.”

    uhhh… no

    Unfortunately, we are mathematically eliminated unless Seattle loses to other teams while we play must win games. Depending on other teams to beat Seattle defines the point that we do not control our destiny.

  34. By Kevin S Mesa on Oct 31, 2016 | Reply

    Re: replays

    With respect to the first “replay” that was screwed up (by the officials): On Doug and Wolf this morning, Wolf said something about a possible glitch in the replay system. Wolf didn’t have more information but if that is the excuse that’s being given for the referees botching the call, that is horse manure. If the “replay system” is broken, go look at a freaking TV for Pete’s sake. All you needed to see was one of the (many) available looks that Fox was showing to the viewers at home. So that’s on the NFL for gifting the Panthers 7 points.

    With respect to the second replay (on Olsen’s catch that wasn’t a catch), I similarly call horse manure here, but now it’s on the Cardinals. I mentioned this last year after a similar call where we didn’t challenge despite it being an obvious blown call … Just have someone whose SOLE job it is on game day to watch the network broadcast and to contact Arians from upstairs if needed. The announcers said it looked like it wasn’t a catch, then they showed a look where it was obvious Olsen didn’t get both feet down, and this was all while the Cardinals were still substituting players. I didn’t count exactly, but I’d guess 15 seconds went by from the time they showed a clear replay on TV that it was not a catch, and the next snap. Plenty of time to buzz Arians.

    Saying that the Cards “don’t necessarily get the TV replay” makes no sense. Millions of people are getting the TV replay, so if the Cards have people watching some other replays from some other NFL feed, just have ONE person watch a TV with the Fox feed. That’s all you need. Isn’t the TV broadcast available from within the stadium? You’re spending over $150 million on player salaries annually, plus all the other salaries for coaches and trainers and other personnel, and you can’t afford to assign someone the duty of just watching the game day broadcast in case something happens like happened on Sunday? As Darren says, that cost us 4 points. Between that screwup and the Palmer fumble-that-wasn’t, we lost 11 points and we lost the game by 10. Yeah, I know, the entire game plays out differently if those things don’t happen, so I’m not saying we win by 1 if those plays turn out differently, but still… there’s zero excuse in my book for missing something that’s right there on the TV broadcast. When we fans at home are yelling at our TV to throw the flag, knowing it’s a clear reversal on a critical play, and no flag is thrown… that’s soooo frustrating.

  35. By Tradersbrain on Oct 31, 2016 | Reply

    As lucky as the Cards were last year avoiding injuries, they have been unlucky in 2016. Just wondering if Cat makes that final FG against the Pats, are we talking this early about next year? Oh well, still enjoy the players and happy to say I just secured my tickets for the NO game.

  36. By Kevin S Mesa on Oct 31, 2016 | Reply

    One of my least favorite things in reading this blog is to see people looking at the results of the games and then making stuff up after the fact to fit the story line.

    The team looks “flat,” someone says above. Huh? Somehow, you can tell from watching the games that last year’s team was busting their butts, and this year’s team is lollygagging?

    Look, this team is two makeable FG’s away from being 5-3, and also was extremely unlucky in the Rams game, where we dominated but lost due to primarily to turnovers. We are a hair away from 6-2. Yesterday, I don’t think we win even without the poor refereeing, but it didn’t help.

    I hate seeing people give up on a 3-4-1 team that could easily be 6-2. Yeah, I know, you are what your record says you are. OK, fine, we’re a 3-4-1 team that has completely dominated one of the opponents we lost to and the opponent we tied. So that means, even if we “are” a 3-4-1 team, we have the potential to be more. The Chiefs started 1-5 last year and finished 11-5. I’m sure their fans were saying the same thing many of you are saying now — “They sure don’t look like a playoff team,” etc.

    Anyone who thinks this team isn’t capable of finishing 7-1 hasn’t been paying attention the last three years. I’m not saying they WILL finish 7-1, but they certainly have it in them.

  37. By Joseph Robinett on Oct 31, 2016 | Reply

    With the condition of the planet earth in peril, maybe the Cardinal situation isn’t so serious. But, a lot of us fans take this B.S. and throw our little insignificant attention on all the wrong things, and, surely, I’m talking about myself, how about you? It’ absolutely ridiculous….

  38. By Halagator on Oct 31, 2016 | Reply

    Kevin S Mesa –

    I agree with your post. All these bandwagon jumpers or part time fans who shout fire BA! Why? 3 winning seasons in a row!. Look at the teams with long tenured coaches. They all don’t have winning records every season and they keep their coaches. We have stability in the organization. Free agents want to play here now. We don’t need to sell the farm or throw in the towel yet. The Cards have had some bad breaks and lost games and also had some bad games and lost. It happens. Half way point in the seasons and its still salvageable. All the teams we needed to lose yesterday lost. At this point the best thing for the Cards is for Minnesota, Atlanta and Dallas to keep winning. We go 7-1 in the second half of the schedule and we are in the playoffs and making some noise. I’m a glass half full kind of guy. Bye week. Time to regroup.

    P.S – Keep up the good work Darren.

  39. By Mike M on Oct 31, 2016 | Reply

    Love my Cardinals. You are Champions, with great heart and untapped powers. It is a new day. Enjoy the opportunities of the bye week, iron out the kinks and come out swinging in November against San Francisco and Minnesota. Jump start the O line and be the best D in the NFL. A bad game in the NFL is still better then the best day a lot of folks get to have. You know what you have to do, just do it and we are behind all of you all the way!

  40. By Richard S on Oct 31, 2016 | Reply

    As for Cam’s complaints, Palmer on one of the sacks near his own end zone was tackled low too and no flag was thrown.

  41. By Jacob on Oct 31, 2016 | Reply

    You don’t offend me. Fortunately for me, I haven’t been on the receiving end of your rude comments to fans, as I’m not on social media. I do, however, get to read them every week via the Twitter feed on the AZ Cardinals home page.
    And I don’t read YOUR stuff. I read about the Arizona Cardinals. You just happen to be the person who is paid to deliver that reading material.
    Lastly, I could direct your ridiculous logic right back at you. If you don’t want to be criticized for bad sports writing, don’t publish “your stuff” on the world wide web.

  42. By Darren Urban on Oct 31, 2016 | Reply

    Jacob —

    RE: Criticism

    Just keep clicking on my posts.

  43. By NJAzCardsFan on Oct 31, 2016 | Reply

    Playing in January…??? Maybe the Cards would challenge the fans in a game of Flag football for charity….. No way this team goes to the SB without buying their own tickets…..

  44. By Kevin S Mesa on Nov 1, 2016 | Reply

    Halagator —

    I agree. And our next game is SF, at home, so we should get to 4-4-1.

    After that, we go on the road for two tough games, but that Minnesota game is looking winnable after seeing their offense completely AWOL in two straight games against the Eagles and Bears. It’s a road game and no road game is easy in the NFL, so I’m not assuming we will win… but if we can win that one, we’ll be at 5-4-1 and then we can reassess.

    I think that’s a must-win game. Let’s get to 5-4-1 and then we can assess where we are relative to both Seattle and the wild card.

  45. By Joseph Robinett on Nov 1, 2016 | Reply

    Thumbs up, thumbs down, not too many grownups to go round….

    Carson sure is a tough son of a gun; bet he’s a good father, gentlemen.

    Wish David J. was on a little better team, at this moment, to showcase his electricity, wow!

    Fitz’s willpower….

  46. By Jacob on Nov 1, 2016 | Reply

    What an intelligent response. I’ll be sure to keep clicking.

  47. By Darren Urban on Nov 1, 2016 | Reply

    Jacob —

    RE: Response

    I knew I could count on you.

  48. By Eazy E on Nov 4, 2016 | Reply

    A little deja vu!!!!

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