Wednesday before the Broncos, Haden and punters

Posted by Darren Urban on August 30, 2017 – 11:03 am

The last preseason game is upon us. None of the starters will be playing, and neither will some key backups. There are, in reality, very few spots left and while the game could mean something in a spot or two decision-wise, most of the choices could already be made now. The Cardinals know what they have. These next few days are about adjusting the roster, comings and goings that will be impacted by waiver claims, signings and maybe a trade.

— Lot of questions about whether the Cardinals would chase soon-to-be free-agent CB Joe Haden. I don’t expect it to happen, and there is a simple reason why. Haden isn’t close to the same player he was just a couple years ago, when he deserved to be in the same discussion with the Patrick Petersons of the world. He struggled last season and has struggled a lot this preseason. I’ll be interested to see what he can get on the open market, since the Browns do have a $4 million offset, and we’ll see if he signs for more than one year. But his body has been breaking down over the last couple of seasons. As with every player, I fully expect the Cardinals to at least evaluate the possibility. The likelihood of the Cards chasing him, when there are probably going to be many suitors, I would think would be low. Mostly because he isn’t the player he once was.

UPDATE: Adam Schefter reports the Steelers are signing Haden for a 3-year, $27M deal including $7 million this season. So that’s that.

— There is the punting battle between Matt Wile and Richie Leone, knowing that veteran Jeff Locke has been cut and reports say still-effective veteran Andy Lee could traded by Carolina. Lee took a pay cut, which makes his salary more manageable, and if the Panthers are willing to take a low-round pick, maybe that is a path the Cardinals consider.

— Other stuff to watch in the game, especially when the final roster, at least at the bottom, may come down to who will be active on game days (which means a lot for guys who play special teams.): Rookie Rudy Ford on special teams, since he is likely battling Harlan Miller for a final safety spot. Wide receiver Aaron Dobson on offense, against Brittan Golden on special teams. How well do guys like Cole Toner hold up on the offensive line? Can the Cardinals be comfortable with their offensive line depth?

— There will not be an injury report until a week from today. That gives three key players — G Mike Iupati (triceps), DT Robert Nkemdiche (calf strain) and LB Deone Bucannon (ankle) — one more week before we really get a sense of whether they will be ready to play the regular-season opener.

— Speaking of the waiver claims and trades that could happen (remember, any player claimed off waivers must remain on the 53-man roster for at least three weeks), in the Keim era, the Cardinals have been awarded three players on waiver claims (Thomas Kaiser, Alameda Ta’amu and Bradley Sowell) and aquired two players in trades (Marcus Cooper and Matt Barkley) during final roster cutdown time.

— I’ll post a guess at the 53-man roster soon after the last preseason game.

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44 Responses to “Wednesday before the Broncos, Haden and punters”

  1. By JTDG on Aug 30, 2017 | Reply

    ” in the Keim era, the Cardinals have been awarded three players on waiver claims (Thomas Kaiser, Alameda Ta’amu and Bradley Sowell) and aquired two players in trades (Marcus Cooper and Matt Barkley) during final roster cutdown time.”

    So what you are saying is, there is no help on the way.

    As for Joe Haden, Eric made a valid point. If you took a look at Badger last year, you might say he has clearly lost a step and is on the downward trend.

    With Haden, you had a Probowler in 13 and 14, who is injured in 2015. He came back in 2016 playing 15 games and had 11 passed defensed and 3 picks. No, not probowl numbers. You are right. But neither were Badgers 4 passes defensed and 1 pick in 10 games.

    Then factor in, 2013 he played under one coach and DC, 2014 and 2015, he played under another head coach. then 2016, another head coach and DC. Then in 2016 you watch both safeties, Dansby, your center and RT loss to FA. Not to mention, every year he has had a different CB2. Finally throw in facing Antonio Brown twice a year and The browns are not the easiest team to shine on.

    I get it, Gilmore, Bouye, and now Haden are too expensive. So we can either win 10-11 games, get knocked out in the playoffs and start dreaming of free agents in 2018. Or change the behavior and take a risk on a huge upgrade over Bethel, allow a defense to go back to what it does best in manning up and sending the house and get away from the zones and have a chance to make noise in the playoffs.

    Tell me honestly, is this team right now a superbowl contender? Can we beat the Patriots, Steelers, Seahawks, Packers, Panthers, Falcons, ect.
    I’m not sure we can win our division.

  2. By JTDG on Aug 30, 2017 | Reply

    One last point on Haden;

    Remember, Peterson gets the best receiver on this team. Haden would be CB2.

    Automatically, he becomes a much better CB . Instead of TY Hilton in week 2, he gets Moncreif, Instead of Dez Bryant, he gets Williams,
    Haden shuts those guys down.

  3. By Darren Urban on Aug 30, 2017 | Reply

    All —

    RE: Haden

    As I noted above: Steelers give Haden 3 years, $27M, $7M this season.

  4. By Joe C. on Aug 30, 2017 | Reply

    I’m not sure anyone is beating New England on paper, it is preseason. Packers have Rogers. I think we can beat the rest.

  5. By Big Ken on Aug 30, 2017 | Reply

    Keep Harlan Miller on the ’53’, move Rudy Ford to the practice squad.

  6. By JTDG on Aug 30, 2017 | Reply


    Yep Darren, I saw it come across.

    The Steelers gave up an average of 9 million a year and he was a FA for , what, a couple hours?

    Seeing him cover Antonio Brown must have motivated them to jump on this.
    They Wasted no time making their team better.

  7. By Scott H on Aug 30, 2017 | Reply

    Darren –

    OK. So…..if the Steelers are laying out $27 million for Haden for a 3-year deal, then how broken down do THEY think he is????

    Hey, not to say the Steelers can’t be wrong, but…..clearly, they are not signing a player they think is breaking down. Players who are breaking down tend to get one-year fliers, kinda like the Patriots are known for.

    THIS has the potential to be an opportunity that the Cardinals could end up taking some heat for. Again, that whole “aggressive” thing…..where the CB position is concerned, we did NOT see it during free agency and the Steelers aggressiveness here didn’t even give us a chance to show it now.

    And, yes, the Steelers could end up being the ones who got it wrong. I get that.

  8. By Darren Urban on Aug 31, 2017 | Reply

    Scott H —

    RE: Haden

    Cards weren’t going to pay that for Haden. So whether the Steelers “got it wrong” or not, it didn’t matter. On top of that, given that Haden signed with the Steelers less than an hour after technically he could officially negotiate, it was pretty clear Haden had only one place he was considering.

  9. By JTDG on Aug 30, 2017 | Reply

    Cards ranked 10th in power rankings (which means next to nothing).

    The Pats and Falcons take the top 2 spots and I would have to agree with that. Both teams got better after facing off in the super bowl.

    #3 goes to the Seahawks as they have got their guys healthy. The huge question mark on seattle is their oline. Then their starting LT goes down. Surprised they haven’t made a move. Might be doing something in the next couple days.

    #4 – The killer B’s just got help on defense as Joe Haden joins the gang. A healthy Bud Dupree, James Harrison and TJ Watt will benefit from Haden.

    #5 – The Packers – Aaron Rodgers, enough said

    #6 – The Dallas Cowboys – I am thinking the Giants overtake the boys, so I am not agreeing with this rank, but they do have that O line, Dak, Dez and Zeke.

    #7 – The Raiders – Beast Mode joins Carr and company. They will score points, but is their defensive secondary good enough?

    #8 The Chiefs – Interesting. But can Alex Smith get it done or will they turn to Mahomes at some point. Not sure about this one??

    #9. Denver Broncos – Lets face it, the Broncos won the superbowl on defense. With Von Miller and crew, they are always going to be tough.

    #10 – The Cards – For me, there are questions. Can Palmer be kept clean and survive the season? Can John Brown stay Healthy ? Can Bethel hold up? Will the zone defense be effective ? If all are yes, then why not the cards. But it is a wait and see on those questions.

  10. By D on Aug 30, 2017 | Reply

    The Fans and Cards need to worry about beating Seattle twice before thinking about playoffs etc.

    Key’s to a successful 2017

    1- Keeping Palmer healthy
    2- Keeping J. Brown and Honey badger healthy
    3- Improved Special teams.
    4- Winning more on the road.

    Keim needs to think/create a way to add multiple players this week.

    1- A Vet OL addition
    2- A Impact DL player
    3- A new Punter

  11. By cobra on Aug 30, 2017 | Reply


    If the team spent 27 million or less on every broken down player you think the Cardinals should bring in, well, we won’t win the division in this century. Just food for thought playing G.M. I do appreciate your analysis of a lot of different scenarios though. The salary cap is a hell of a thing to deal with. We will see what transpires this season. It will be a telling story of the near future with our early round draft picks mostly red shirting their first years.

  12. By dobie on Aug 30, 2017 | Reply

    see how they play before you start making prediction I am not an expert but I do love the game for me the first three games might tell you how it going to play out especially the two away game on the road Team please do not lose to Dallas at home don’t want to hear those Dallas fan yell cheer all the way to the parking lot they haven’t won in this stadium don’t let it be the first Cardinals

  13. By Tradersbrain on Aug 30, 2017 | Reply

    Darren, Assuming the right deal is available, where (position group) do you see the team adding via waiver/trade?

  14. By Darren Urban on Aug 31, 2017 | Reply

    Traders —

    RE: Right deal

    I would think outside linebacker, backup OL, punter could all be possible.

  15. By aschatte on Aug 30, 2017 | Reply

    @JTDG Spot on…Just feels like this organization doesn’t have it in them to win a SB with conservative approaches year after year. The fans hope this is the year but then reality sets in that its the same old cardinals….Every story its the same old punting!!!! For gods sake, either trade for a punter or just go with Wile at this point. Tired of hearing about special teams! ..I dont think I can take another loss this year due to special teams mess. The second CB spot still remains contentious…at this point lets just clone Peterson!

  16. By Don on Aug 30, 2017 | Reply

    Haden was never an option for us, not at that kind of money and even if we had the money it’s a big gamble for a player who’s numbers fell right after signing a big contract, we have all seen that before. People act like we have nothing at CB2, I’m willing to bet that at the end of the season Bethal has better numbers than Hayden.

  17. By shannon robinson on Aug 31, 2017 | Reply

    I’m looking forward to watching Cole Toner and Tony Bergstrom working together on the O-Line. Mr. Bergstrom is my favorite pick to make this team. I got a chance to meet his family, his beautiful wife Rachael, parents, and kids at the Rennaisance during camp. What a gentleman. I had been following him in previous games and saw how capable he is – run blocker extraordinaire, tough guy. If he doesn’t make the 53, my guess is he’s back on the roster by week 4. I’m also delighted to get another look at our first round draft choice Blaine Gabbert who we picked up in response to the heavy pressure from this blog to draft a QB with our top pick! Oh, I forgot he was a #1 pick 7 years ago and we signed him for free – Keim Time style. I’m also celebrating not signing Joe Haden, making our #2 cornerback, Mr. Bethel, the 7 Million Dollar Man. A Tip of The Cardinals’ Wing to Darren Urban for getting us through the Preseason!

  18. By shannon robinson on Aug 31, 2017 | Reply

    Once more with feeling: The All Polynesian Defensive Line: The Immovable Men for our special fans in Flagstaff w/ NAU, and Utah and Utah State, Peli Anau, Pasoni Tasini, and David Moala. Go get ’em boys, show them what Islanders are all about!

  19. By Luke on Aug 31, 2017 | Reply

    Any chance Krishawn Hogan makes the team? Has looked good on Special teams and supposedly has flashed during practices or will they hope to stash him on the practice squad

  20. By Darren Urban on Aug 31, 2017 | Reply

    Luke —

    RE: Hogan

    I don’t see that happening. Maybe practice squad.

  21. By JTDG on Aug 31, 2017 | Reply


    The Joe Haden deal;

    Only 9 million is guaranteed. Not 27 million. It most likely wont be a 27 million dollar deal if health issues arise.

    Truth is, the Steelers will pay 7 million this year for Haden. If released at the end of the year, they would take a two million dollar cap hit in 2018.

    Somehow, people think that we can’t do that under our cap. Why ?

    I will say, Joe Haden had other offers and didn’t even hear them. He wanted to go the team that has dominated his division for years and has all those rings.

  22. By CARDS62 on Aug 31, 2017 | Reply

    Joe Haden is 28 and Patrick Peterson is 27 so I do not get this broken down talk. I am not saying we should have signed Haden as we did not even know he was available after 2016 season, but all of us knew we had a CB situation, and when you have exposure that can cost you a season you get insurance and we did next to nothing to get insurance. How can any of us be happy with this? Look I am going to root like heck for Justin Bethel and Williams but I also rooted like heck for Money Mike who was on the field against Pittsburgh in the Superbowl as I watched us lose in the last seconds.

    We also need to be on the alert for insurance for our o line, d line, return man and possible punter and big wr. You guys know my rants on punters, but as long as Wile does okay in last preseason game I am willing to try him for game 1.

    I believe Darren told me few weeks ago that we had around 12 million in salary cap space, and I do not want to tie that money up on long term deals, but I sure want to see us use that money this year when we have a good shot at the Super Bowl. Heck JTDG we are 10th on the power ranking to me that is great as most seasons we were in the high 20s or worse. Running Backs break down quicker than any position and we have David Johnson in his prime. We block for this guy some this year and have a down field passing game that must be respected and watch David gain over 2,200 yards from scrimmage this year. The window is closing and I am old. I believe we are the franchise in any major sport that is waiting the longest to win a Championship. We deserve a Championship and more important than that our players deserve a Championship, present and past.

    Injuries usually help decide who wins the Super Bowl and New England suffered a major one in Edelman. I still see NE at the top, but if Gronk goes down again look out and I do not see their running game as being special.

    Hey did any of you notice how Wetzel did against Atlanta and do any of you think we are better off with him starting at guard over Mike U.?

    GO Cards!

  23. By JTDG on Aug 31, 2017 | Reply

    BTW, I am so sick of hearing that the cap is so difficult.

    If you have a plan, it isn’t that hard.

    Let’s just for fun, say we signed a Stephan Gilmore to the same contract as the patriots did.

    The cards have 11 million in cap space and with the signing of Gilmore, they would have released Bethel instead of re doing his contract, saving another 3.5 million. So they have almost 15 million in cap space. You with me?

    The Pats signed Gilmore to 5 years 65 million. Huge right? In 2017, the cap hit is only 8 million, giving the cards still 7 million for needed FAs.

    In 2018, Gilmore would cost the cards 12.6 million. The cards currently have 21 million under the cap in 2018. Giving them 8 million left. Not a ton to work with.
    But Veldheer (they drafted Holden with hopes he can play RT) release would free up 7 million (I would trade him this year) Iupati, (they drafted Johnson with hopes he could take over) released would save 6 million. Now we are back up to 21 million. and we haven’t even started talking about Palmer, who would save 14 million if retires/released
    Not to mention guys like Bethea and shipley, who would be replaced by Baker and Toner.
    You are sitting at 40 million to begin to resign guys like Gabbert, Buc, John Brown and DJ. Which by the way, you can do the same with their contracts. And I am not even looking at the draft, where you could land a QB or Receiver, or LB.

    It really isn’t as difficult as one might think. Teams like the Patriots are able to add huge FAs. They figured it out with huge contracts to Gronk and Brady, they resign Hightower and add Gilmore. The Steelers have huge contracts with Big Ben, Lev Bell, Antonio Brown and Pouncy and Decastro, yet can add Joe Haden

    Good teams find a way to add players that can help them win and don’t use the cap as an excuse.

  24. By Darren Urban on Aug 31, 2017 | Reply

    JTDG —

    RE: Plan

    They have a plan. I hope you aren’t insinuating they do not. You just don’t like it.

  25. By JTDG on Aug 31, 2017 | Reply

    Actually, no I am not saying that. I was saying if you have a plan, you can manage the cap.

    I then went on to use examples of how drafting Holden, Johnson, and Toner will allow them to move on from higher priced lineman in 2018.

    Come on now, don’t put words in my mouth

  26. By Joe C. on Aug 31, 2017 | Reply

    JTDG, Brady is far from a huge contract. Gronk is under $7M cap hit and only three players are over $10M (Brady at $14M the highest). Gilmore has a $31M dead money hit in FY17. Hightower $17M in dead money. In FY18 Gilmore and Hightower are $22m and $13.2M in dead money. AZ has $97M avail in 2019 to $60M in New England. granted New England is a master at this, thanks to Brady taking far below market. AZ is poised to build a winner for years to come. Even if key players don’t pan out. New England will hurting if Gilmore doesn’t play well for several years.

  27. By Marlin on Aug 31, 2017 | Reply

    You’re wearing us out, man. Please give some other folks a chance. Its football season !! Woo Hoo!! I think we have a contender !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  28. By D on Aug 31, 2017 | Reply

    My guess is that Chris Johnson doesn’t make the 53, neither does J. Jones.
    I will also guess that A. Dobson will make the team.

    I am concerned with the Oline and Punter as of today.

  29. By JTDG on Aug 31, 2017 | Reply

    Joe C,

    ” AZ has $97M avail in 2019 to $60M in New England. ”

    What ? 2019 ? So are the cards not signing David Johnson, DJ Humphries, Marcus Golden, John Brown, and Buc ?

    I think most of that cap space will be eaten up. Especially if we don’t have a QB and have to spend for , say Gabbert. If Gabbert moves to a starter, he isn’t taking minimum money.

    But Ok, lets say the Patriots have cap hell in 2019 (which I know that won’t be the case) . The Patriots have 5 superbowls wins and 4 superbowl losses and are the leader to win in 2017 and heck, will be a contender in 2018.

    So, let me get this right. You are happy we will have 90 million in cap room in 2019 and no superbowl wins and 1 superbowl loss. And point at the patriots who will only have 60 million in cap space and will have to suffer with their 5 wins and 9 appearances ?

    What am I missing ?

  30. By Scott H on Aug 31, 2017 | Reply

    Cards62 –

    That was beautiful, man. So good to hear others lay it out like that!

    Look, I have no idea if Haden is “breaking down” or not. I do think there is NO WAY he is so shot out at age 28 that you close the book on him. And there is no way he got that offer / deal from ANY other team if he is that far gone. I mean….NO team is that foolish. And certainly not the Steelers.

    What I DON’T like hearing is that the Cardinals weren’t going to pay that for him, so forget it, done, end of story. Hey, I’m a fan! And as a fan, you can’t NOT question why not?? Why won’t your team pay a player who could make them better when they DO have the money to do it? For what Haden is getting for THIS year, we could have made that happen. Clearly, they were just not going to.

    Hmmmm…..does that meet anyone’s definition of aggressive?

    And I don’t know how anyone can say for sure he was only going to consider one team. THAT really doesn’t make sense. And maybe no one else would have offered what the Steelers did. But you’re gonna tell me that if the Cowboys or Colts or anyone else made an offer that topped the Steelers offer, he wasn’t going to consider it?? No. Not buying it. This is pro sports, where it is ALWAYS about money.

    But…if he wanted to play for Pittsburgh….OK.

    Darren, speaking for myself, NONE of my frustration here is directed at you. But I want to say this – I could stomach this a lot easier if the Cardinals jumped in, made an effort, made a reasonable offer and either just got out-bid or lost out because maybe Haden preferred another team over this one. But it doesn’t appear that they even flinched. It wasn’t even a swing and a miss – it was more like going up to the plate without a bat because you knew you weren’t gonna swing, anyway.

    I may speak for others, I may not. I just think it is not going over well that several teams had interest in this guy but we – a team that clearly has a questionable situation at CB – weren’t one of them.

    CB was a pretty obvious need for this team going into this off-season. I don’t think there is any debate about that. But looking at the way that position was NOT addressed during the off-season, you would think this organization feels we are fine with basically the same players we had last year – minus Tony Jefferson and Marcus Cooper and DJ Swearinger, of course. OK. You want to play that way, fine. But now, you don’t get to be wrong and not be held accountable.

  31. By Scott H on Aug 31, 2017 | Reply

    Marlin –

    RE: JTDG needs to give some other folks a chance.

    Are you kidding me?? I’m sorry, is the space on the blog limited now? Are people having their posts denied because JTDG is taking up all the room??

    There’s plenty of room here for everyone to get in. If someone has something to say, all they gotta do is type it in and hit Submit Comment.

    The frequency of posts from certain people just shows how much they care. That never wears me out.

    JTDG – preach on, brother!

  32. By Joe Cardea on Aug 31, 2017 | Reply

    JTDG, I think you’re missing the three year plan Kiem talks about. NE has Brady playing for half, or less of his market value at age 40. They are clearly all in today and as defending champs with a 40 year old QB i see why. You go all in with a full house. Not so much with three of a kind. The Cards are saving some money for the next hand. Its not like they’re not contenders before the games are played. Haden vs. Bethel/Williams/Williams in Aug 2017 is about even. Haden is a question mark going into the season.

  33. By JTDG on Sep 1, 2017 | Reply

    Joe C

    You said the Patriots are all in because of Brady’s age, right? My question is, why are the cards not all in? This could (and for me) should be the last year for Palmer. That might mean the end for Fitz and even BA might be in his last year. You don’t know.

    Knowing this, shouldn’t the cards, like the patriots, be all in?

    If Palmer left this year, and you were rebuilding, sure not grabbing haden or gilmore or bouye makes sense. Seeing if draft picks can make the leap would be the right move.

    Also , 3 year plan? What is his 3 year plan? Since 2018 is year 6, is everything he is doing building up to win it all in 2018?

    By the way, there is no way Haden and Bethel are equal. You have bethel in year 6 who has never been able to claim the starting spot while you have Haden with multiple pro bowls. Even his down year in 2016 was worlds better than Bethels failure in progress. Not even close.

  34. By clssylssy on Sep 1, 2017 | Reply

    This isn’t Twitter and nobody is limited to 140 characters. I think the majority of us look forward to the extremely knowledgeable and insightful posts by JTDG, Mitchaz, Scott, and others. It’s always good to hear fresh ideas and views even if differ from our own, and it also keeps things from getting stale by getting “the other side of the story”.This is one of the best blogs b/c our fans share views that aren’t always lockstep with those of the Organization–got to love free thinkers!
    JOE C…
    About that three year plan…the Cards have been “saving money for the next hand
    ” for as long as I’ve been in Arizona (25 yrs) and that reworked line is getting old for some of us who would like to see results in our lifetime. Perhaps our SB run in 2008, is all we’re going to get (besides excuses), and that was pretty terrific. Darren has stated that Keim isn’t concerned about a SB, which sounds like his three year plan is more about job security than winning Championships and being taken seriously, This morning is applauding the rise of the 9ers and Rams in the NFC West while questioning the strengh of the Cardinals ability to challenge the Seahawks…Wow,seems as if Keim’s “plan” has us stalling (again?)…sure hope not! You can bet our young stars like David Johnson are going to want the big contracts when the time comes but almost as important will be signing with a team who is a legit contender, unlike Fitz who has spent 41% of his life in a Cards uniform with no SB to show for it. So, by not winning now, in three years we could very well once again be irrevelant. We gotta stay at the table at least!.

  35. By Darren Urban on Sep 1, 2017 | Reply

    Clssy —

    RE: Keim/SB

    Whoa, whoa, whoa.

    When did I ever say Keim wasn’t concerned about a Super Bowl? (I’ll spoil the answer: I’ve never said that. And it’s ludicrous.)

  36. By CARDS62 on Sep 1, 2017 | Reply

    Joe Cardea you are correct in that the Patriots are receiving a huge break from Brady. I guess we need to make sure our next QB is married to a super model ha ha. I clicked on highest paid players for every team and it showed Carson Palmer as being number 2 in the entire league, now I love me some Carson Palmer but he is not even close to being the second best player in the league as I would not even list him as second best player on our team. I do not know Carson Palmer and maybe that is what it took to get him not to retire and I am so very glad that we did not nickle and dime him like we did Kurt Warner on his last contract, but I do not think Carson is playing for just the money or primarily the money as he has plenty. I think he likes our team and trusts BA, meaning if he needed to restructure his deal Carson would in a heart beat.

    I bring this up Joe because 3 year plans are great and you have to have them, but they have too many moving parts so you have to be flexible and all in on your 1 year plans if you have hopes of truly winning a Super Bowl. I do not see Fitz in the Cardinals 3 year plan, Palmer probably not, BA – health reasons probably not, and Bill Bidwill is 86 years old. C. Campbell is definitely not.

    Injuries can still trip us up, but right now we look in very good position so I keep hoping we bring in some insurance policies.

    JTDG you know I love your skill assessment on players so try to sell me on what you are seeing in Holden and Johnson? They have not showed me anything yet, and if you do not mind compare them to Wetzel for us.

    GO Cards!

  37. By Joe C. on Sep 1, 2017 | Reply

    Okay, I’ll try to answer/explain my comments. First, my “all in” comment. New England is defending champs. They have a 40 year old GOAT who will take them to the SB until he declines. Could be this year maybe a few more. If you have a full house you go all in. They are truly one player away. Plus they aren’t paying $25M to their QB. The Cards on the other hand cannot make the next step by adding one player, it will take the team. So don’t cripple the future for a desperate gambit. Following that thought, Haden vs,. the Cards #2 CB. Right now, before a ball is snapped, our #2’s are not significantly different then Haden’s last two years. He has a better history I grant that. I’d give him a one year contract, but not three years. The three year plan. What we’re seeing today is the result of decisions made three years ago. Floyd flamed out. Calais was planned, Palmer was planned to be here. DJ was a surprise. HB and PP were planned. Daryl Washington screwed us. Markus Golden was a pleasant surprise. Chandler was improvised and the sort of gambit you blow your team plan for. Etc, tons of examples. With the comp picks and anticipated cap room Kiem has us positioned to be a perenniel (sp) contender. Dead money is evil. Medium or bad players on premium contracts can cripple you. We are contenders today. We’re positioned to be contenders tomorrow. Ram’s have sucked for ten years and people act they are better then us in planning and execution. 9ers blew up their contender and have been in the running for the worst team in the league for two years running. They and the Ram’s are in the bottom five or generously ten this year. Seattle o-line sucks big time. Their running backs and WR are no better or worse then our own. Their secondary is aging. I’m not right on all my points. I like to bring up our three secondary losses were an UDFA, cast off, and 7th round trade pick up. We have tons of players like those that could step up and be starts (like DJ did). Clssy I’ve exceeded 140 words! Darren, am I whacko?

  38. By clssylssy on Sep 1, 2017 | Reply

    I believe what you said that it wasn’t a priority with Keim and .for most of us that means it’s not immediately important. So, I apologize if we’re splitting hairs but, ya know when BA came and there was the whole regime change, they promised to win us a SB with the implication being, in the foreseeable future. So, I’m getting a little impatient…SORRY!

  39. By Darren Urban on Sep 1, 2017 | Reply

    Clssy —

    RE: Keim/SB

    Again, please show me where I said that. I’ve never once said winning a Super Bowl isn’t a priority for Keim. You might’ve said it, or someone else in the comments, but I never have. Because it isn’t true.

  40. By JTDG on Sep 1, 2017 | Reply

    Hey clssy,

    I woundn’t even say that . 🙂

    I believe Keim really wants to win a superbowl. I just disagree with him on how to get there. I think he truly believes he has done what is needed to win now.

  41. By JTDG on Sep 1, 2017 | Reply


    Man, you gave me a tough one. I haven’t seen these guys a ton.

    But lets take Holden.
    A guy who I thought is a RT but the cards were impressed with his quick feet and moved him to the LT spot. I like his size, feet, solid base and he seems to have a nasty streak as he drove a couple guys last night to the ground. I think he is no where ready this year, but can develop into a starting RT. He needs to make a jump next year but I could see him competing in 2018.

    Dorian Johnson
    Most of my opinion of him is from college. This was a lunch pail, go to work, hard nose guard. He is long, tough and has the ability to be a starter for a long time. I think his issue is he is struggling within this offense. Maybe it is learning the playbook, maybe something else. If he is released, he will be grabbed and starting somewhere in 2018. This is the biggest question mark I have. I thought for sure he would over take Boehm this year or at least make Iupati expendable. We will see if he can make that jump in 2018.

    John Wetzel is a guy I liked last year. Like the other two, he is a work in progress but has a jump on the two rookies as he was here last year.

    Comparing him to Holden – I think Holden has quicker feet and more potential. But I feel Wetzel is the better player today.

    Comparing him to Johnson – again Wetzel is powerful but is a little slow footed. Johnson should be better at guard in pulling , at getting to the second level, at everything. Johnson is someone I hope makes the team and they figure out what the issue is and he comes back in 2018 ready to take Iupati’s spot.

    But I like Wetzel. I feel he can develop into a starter. Not only that, he can play multiple spots. I would feel comfortable to trade Veldheer this year and let Wetzel play RT in 2017.

    Truthfully, practice is where you learn about O and D lineman. Unfortunately, I am not there so it is tough to give you a clear picture

  42. By JTDG on Sep 1, 2017 | Reply

    Joe C,

    Quick question;

    Would you be happy and think it is a successful season if the cards go 11-5 and make playoffs and get knocked of by the Falcons/Seahawks/Cowboys/Giants?

    You see, after becoming a season ticket holder in 1991 and sitting in the heat at SunDevil Stadium, I just wanted them to win 6 or 7 home games. Forget the playoffs.

    But I feel the cards are close these last few years. I think they have been a couple players away the last couple years.

    A couple oline man, a CB2, another receiver, a kicker. Not breaking the bank. Not killing the future. But giving the cards a chance to win it all.

    Frankly for me, anything short of winning the superbowl is a bad year.

  43. By Joe C. on Sep 1, 2017 | Reply

    JTDG, If the Cards go 11-5 it will be a fantastic regular season. And I think that will have answered your questions about the CB #2 position. I grew up in Los Angeles in the 1970’s and can tell you all about rooting for the best team in the NFL and losing in the playoffs. But only one team can win the SB and if my team is competing two or three weeks into the playoffs, then yes that is a successful season. And if my team consistently is competing into the playoffs I expect a Super Bowl.

  44. By CARDS62 on Sep 1, 2017 | Reply

    Thank you JTDG for your quick response.

    Like you I like Wetzel best of all now, and just hope he keeps improving.

    I like your comments on Johnson, but I worry about him as I watched and studied Cooper from NC State and he looked very solid in college. We gave Cooper several years, and Humphries a full year so I have no problem giving Johnson a year and hoping the light comes on.

    I am thinking Veldheer will bounce back and have a strong year for us. Maybe a bit of a slow start being on the other side working with G with little experience but as season goes along I think he will be our best or second best lineman.

    I am really worried about our interior line and Mike Iupati. Do not know if it is injuries or what but he just does not look right to me for couple of years.

    Now with Seattle picking up Richardson to go with Michael Bennett I will have nightmares about them going up against our interior line. Seattle is always tough, but last couple of years did not start well so if they start the season well, look out. NFC to me is Falcons, Seahawks, Cardinals, Packers.

    I am still hoping Nick Mangold is healthy or will be healthy shortly and that we pick him up this season. I always wanted Mangold if healthy and now he adds extra benefit of knowing Richardson’s game.

    GO cards and a lot of great posts lately by many fans on this thread and many others so everyone keep it up.

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